Very big news if true and will make a dent in used processor sales ha ha.
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co...7&preview=true
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Very big news if true and will make a dent in used processor sales ha ha.
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co...7&preview=true
Well, the post was made today (April 3rd), so it's no April Fool's :D
and if true i will be in line to get one.
Considering the cpp2's are going for 3x what they were four years ago, yeah, this would help.
Unless you're selling lol. I'd like to see them bring back the steel Hewes/Jobo reels.
Hewes is still making them and you can order them directly. http://www.hewes.co.uk/
So, does that suggest that they will also start manufacturing the compatible tanks again? No word of that in the article, though they do mention tank compatibility.
Rick "whose retirement program is not based on a secret hoard of Jobo Expert tanks" Denney
Awesome news!
Well, it does suggest that they will not stop manufacturing the compatible tanks they currently have in their catalogue (http://www.jobo.com/web/JOBO-System-Tanks.850.0.html). But I doubt they'll take up any of the less common tanks which they discontinued. And whether you can get any of their current or future products without ordering overseas is yet another question - Jobo darkroom gear is easy to get in Europe, but your question (as well as the bizarre prices at which used tanks sell on ebay US) rather suggest that you are out of a local distributor...
There is one serious logistical issue. They'd have to get the impression that there would be
enough business in the US to justify mfg units again in our voltage. And the distributor would bear some of that risk. Mere tanks could simply be shipped from abroad, but it would
be nice to see them in stores again.
This is really good news. I wonder what changes they have made; as far as voltage is concerned, they could make it multi-voltage. It would cost more but they wouldn't have to develop two separate models.
Well, I took the bait. Sent for info...asking most of the pertinent questions for this side of the pond.
USA compatible voltage and hz(?), US distributors(?), US warranty & service(?), price delivered to USA in USD(?),
Where will the units be manufactured(?), etc...
Wait and see! Will post their reply...if/when received.
I saw the article as well. I hope it is true. I will start saving today. maybe by the end of the year I will have enough to order one.
Quick reply (under 30 min) from, FirstCall Photographic, is as follows:
Marc,
At this pre-planning stage I can only answer some of your questions.
The warranty will be a standard 12 months and it will be dual voltage so OK for the US.
It is made in Gummersbach in Germany and a shipping cost will depend on final specifications.
A US distributor may be appointed before the launch but we’ll keep you informed of this at the same time as final information is sent to you.
Kind regards,
Rodney Bates
Sales Director
Firstcall Photographic Limited
www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk
I expect they're using a DC motor, since it's much easier to control its speed than that of an AC motor.
Switching-mode power supplies are almost all universal input, handling voltages from 80 to 250 and a range of
supply line frequencies including both 50Hz and 60Hz.
Given those two factors, the same unit would work here, in Europe, and in Japan.
- Leigh
I was addressing the question of manufacturing economy,.
Being able to produce a single unit that would work in all three markets
reduces the unit cost significantly on small-volume products.
- Leigh
I already emailed Firstcall and signed up to be in line for a purchase..
Doubtful. Last new Cpp2 went for 4,000 so the new price will be? I have known this was in the works for 5-6 months but doubted they would do it. I suggested a dual voltage model so its nice my opinions hold "some" weight at first only 220V was being considered. This not the first time I saw the link posted though, this afternoon I got an email from Freestyle asking me about the unit. I would like to see a serious company like Freestyle pick up sales of the processor, hopefully I will still be able to sell parts and repair the processors.
VIVAS !!! long live film!!!!
Greg- I have only used Alt2300 and Alt 3- currently using a old unit... last legs
How does this unit compare to the two I am use to...?
I am interested but really hesitant, as I have designs to make my own semi auto unit that uses all the tanks and reels I already have.
Jobo really left some of us in the lurch and as I plan to continue to process well into the future I see this as hopeful news , but really doubt Jobos commitment to the end user.
More details:
"The processor will retail for just under GBP 2000 including VAT and the opening offer will include the free lift worth another GBP 280 with your registration.
The first deliveries are due in the late summer when we will contact you again."
Bob,
Never used an ATL unit but have a CPP2 and I think the big difference will be the lack of automation. Someone is going to have to lift the tanks to dump and them do a manual fill. For each step in the process. Not a major thing by any stretch. If I were buying a new unit, I would probably pick up a couple of spare motors and circuit boards as well to safeguard against future eventualities. Everything else is just mechanical.
Fred
I got the flier on it. Looks like the cpp processor but includes a timer. No details available on the timer. The red plastic is gone and the whole thing is black. The picture shows a lift that looks identical to the old lifts with the same arm mechanism.
The main difference is that the knobs are gone and replaced with some electronics and a few press buttons. Having used a Jobo colorline analyzer I suspect that the electronics are un-intuitive. I would have preferred the old knobs which were foolproof.
The downside of course is that the cost is $3000 and available in the UK so shipping will be costly as well.
I would be curious to know what it costs to make one. Maybe $200 max? But it is a good product.
I think this is a great development (no pun intended). In the coming years, labs with Refremas are going to be decommissioning and it is going to be harder and harder to get development done unless you want to do it yourself. It will move to being a cottage industry, and some 16-year old kid with some money from Dad could probably set up a small side-business with a couple of Jobos and do well in a market where there is a lot of film use... especially if they do C-41 as well as B&W.
We moved to small batch processing years ago for key clients. This is indeed a good turn of events .. This time though I will buy parts and probably a second unit as a backup.
I am looking 60 straight in the eye and my Dad unfortunately is not around to help me.
Yes they do C41 as well as B&W
Hey Bob,
I have a later serial number CPP and it turns Expert drums fine. I do however assist the lift manually and don't rely on the lift handle (which imo, is a very weak linkage) alone. There was someone on a forum, maybe here, who made a handle that fit under the drums to help in the lift, think he may have sold them on Ebay as well. I suppose someone who had the wherewithall could probably make a beefed up lift mechanism but slipping a hand under the lift bed is not a big deal to do.
Fred
I wonder how bloated the price will be?
I think I'll keep my beater CPP-2.
Nice to hear that a new CPP-2/3 is in the works! I use a late model CPP-2 with 3005 and 3010 drums. The lift arm is really a weak point with the 3000 drums. I always lift the drum with right hand as I raise the lift with my left hand.
Anyone have a brochure or spec page they can post here?
Thanks
One way to do it: http://www.largeformatphotography.in...l=1#post587727
We're extremely flattered by all the amazing interest in the new processor. We can confirm that following a production meeting at the factory in Germany last week that the project to buid a new film and print processor is very much on the cards. We are measuring interest and the final decision to go ahead with the project will be made at the end of the month. Anyone interested can register at info@firstcall-photographic.co.uk
Whilst replying to this forum other members have asked us about Expert sheet film drums from Jobo. These are very much still available and we include a picture of Rita who puts them all together at the factory.
Attachment 71430
Rodney Bates
Firstcall Photographic Ltd
Interest is here in my shop.... now how about the flimsy arm design???
Also New Tanks, New Reels, for all sizes , what will be the situation from this standpoint?
I am very optimistic , but I have to ask , where where you five years ago??.. I had to rig and purchase used 5 alts to keep my processes alive!!!
While I am happy to hear that production will be restarted, I too am concerned about the lift mechanism. It is fine with small tanks but while using the Expert drums I fear for its life.
A stronger lift should not be difficult to accomplish - perhaps automated as well so as to take that lifting up/down function away from less than careful users.
...and thank you for responding in this forum; I for one, really appreciate it.
There's no problem lifting the 3010 expert drum by the handle alone on my CPA-2 - I just don't crank it back but lift gently. The problem comes when lifting the 3063 drum: it's necessary to "assist" the crank with the other hand helping to lift the drum.
Thomas
My observations are that used expert drums sell for prices higher than what used to be new retail in the U.S.
If they are still being made, why is this the case? Is it a lack of an importer? Is there a source in Europe which will ship to the U.S. for a reasonable sum?
None of the major stores in the U.S. carry the expert drums, list them on their website as current models, or provide prices. A few stores have 1500 and 2500-series film tanks, but none have the expert tanks, or even list them for special order. I've looked at the list of U.S. distributors on the Jobo web page for the biggest states and the states around where I live. Big names were on that list...Calumet, Samy's, Glazer's...few list any Jobo darkroom supplies and none list the expert tanks. Most of the stores on that list are there because of picture frames.
You can't sell what you don't offer for sale. I would suggest recruiting a couple of suppliers in the U.S. and feeding them a favorable arrangement for selling small quantities at reasonable prices, and then support them with advertising.
Rick "only frustrated by picture of a woman making something that can't be bought new in the world's largest market" Denney
It's not just the Expert drums that will be needed, as most of us do still process 35mm and 120 film. OTOH I have a good supply of tanks and reels now and others aren't TOO bad on eBay - yet. So the biggest need is probably for the Expert drums.
I do something pretty similar with the Lift on my little CPE2, especially with bigger tanks. The small lift arm is inadequate too, plus I treat it tenderly since it's no longer made.
I'd love to have one of these but unless my CPE2 breaks it's hard for me to justify $3k for something I don't really need that badly at this time. Great news though!
Can't wait for more details on this machine. all i can say right now is Yea Ha!
The lift handle hub is pretty fragile and i am not sure it will have a new design in the new machine, seems to be the same lift.
New lifts however have brass gears and receivers inside them, similar to those used on newer ATL machines, making the gearing smother and puts less strain on the handle.
That said, they do still break...
This guy made/sold lift handle assist things:
http://youtu.be/G7S2K82A_O4
As for rick denny's lament, you can find NEW Expert drums in the land of the free corporations quite easily (who's to say china isen't a bigger market anyways...???) on the sleaze bay...
I just googled Jobo expert drum, found at least one link on the first page to a US based Jobo supplier (for those who don't trust google here is the link ;) - http://processorparts.blogspot.com/)
Either way - Amazing news about a company thats going into production with a new film based product. Common', how often has that happened in the past 15 years?
Stoked~looking forward~and the rest....
Sorry, I was looking for a business that looks and acts like a business. The price for the 3006 they have on ebay seems to me quite a bit higher than the general retail price when these were being imported by bona fide photo stores (such as the ones listed on Jobo's web page). Maybe the factory has raised prices that much. I don't want to (and can't) pay $600 for a tank that I remember used to cost a third of that new. Maybe I'm remembering wrong.
And if you want to know prices for this person's product, you are invited to contact him. You have to know the hieroglyphics, apparently, to know how to do that. Nothing on his blog posts reveal a business name, a location, an email address, or a phone number. He seems to really only have an ebay presence.
No, I doubt China is a larger market for Jobo expert tanks than the U.S., probably by an order of magnitude.
Rick "who'd like to see a little retail competition" Denney
The Expert tank is 400€ including VAT hereabouts - I paid something like that in DM ages ago, so the price seems to have doubled over the course of fifteen or twenty years, which seems to be in proportion to the inflation-caused increase on other items that have kept their value.
The German online stores Jobo list as distributors do ship to all Europe, and you could probably negotiate shipment to the US. Done right you would be VAT exempt and save 19% off the German retail price, so you might save a bit even after shipping cost and import taxes - I would not be surprised if these unofficial US sellers get theirs exactly that way.
Rick - though most all of us film users are living in the past (or locked up in asilums) it is the age of information, where businesses have a not so straight forward store front appearance...
That being said to each his own with online shopping.
Not saying 600$ is cheap or anything, personally i think its ridiculous to pay that much for any film processing apparatus accessory.
But last time these were being sold on BH which was about 3 years ago (i think) they were up in the 400$ range, and in any case were only available on special order.
Considering they sell used for about 15% less then whats new from this blog, used (sometimes in piss poor condition and for more...) on the bay site i guess you cant really expect a new drum to be cheaper in a market that has more demand the supply. And even that being said, holding any kind of stuff in stock probably raises the overheads and so on...
All that aside - that is a real source for Jobo stuff, and its in the US - i just say thanks for small pleasures....
Only time will tell what the new machine production will bring over to this side of the pond.
and BTW - i wouldent be surprised if there are more film users, Jobo users and darkrooms in china alone then there anywhere else in the world combined, especially since so much of that stuff is being made there, for internal supply most of the time, but of course, since i am not in china to confirm ill leave it at that :)
from the blog front page:
Located in MA, USA, We carry a huge in stock inventory of Jobo machines, spare parts, drums, tanks and reels. If we don't have it - we can get it! for more info, contact us at: catlabsofjp@gmail.com
To my defense, I do have several years qualification in hieroglyphic interpretation.
You'll have to show me where there was a link to the blog's front page.
I'm no luddite, and most of what I buy is done online because I live in a place where people don't make things and there are few other ways to get what I need. But even an online used camera store like KEH has a shopping cart, the ability to accept credit cards directly (rather than just using Paypal), and a phone number.
If the prices were low, one can forgive a lot of things, even selling stuff out of his living room. But this fellow looks as though he travels to Germany on business every few months, cleans out the retail stock of a camera store, and comes back with as many tanks as he can fit into his suitcase. I've bought ex-Soviet cameras from suppliers like that, but then I was paying the price this guy wants for a plastic developing tank, and I was buying a medium-format box-SLR camera with a decent lens, two interchangeable backs, and a prism finder (it even worked!).
Sevo, thanks for the current price in Germany. 400€ including 19% VAT seems to be roughly $425 VAT-free dollars at today's exchange rates. It seems he's buying them at retail and marking them up from there, when he sells them for $600. Does he honor the factory warranty?
Jobo should not stand for it if they actually want to build a market in the U.S. for their darkroom products. That's why I made the request I did. Instead, they should recruit a vendor, sell to them at a reasonable wholesale price, provide reasonable terms (as is needed when rebuilding a market in a new area), and not require order sizes that are too large. They don't list anyone on their website of U.S. "distributors" in Massachusetts that looks like this person. The lack of factory acknowledgement and the 30% markup over retail is not confidence-inspiring, but if I needed parts for a processor, I'd probably be prepared to put into any port in a storm.
Rick "who bought much of his 2500 tank stuff from Glazer's" Denney
Nothing made in the USSR, really works... its kind of an ensemble of parts put together, if they all fit - its a miracle.. :)
Happy to see i am not the only person who noticed that.. :)