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Screen Cezanne Users Unite
It appears there are now 5 of us here that use the Screen Cezanne and Cezanne Elite. Maybe we can use this thread to exchange ideas and scanning experiences. Ted has been a valuable resource and likely the one with the most experience.
It turns out that most of us have Version 1.x software while I believe Ted has version 2.x. I have not seen these releases side by side to know the differences if there are any. As far as I can tell Version 2.x is a rewrite for OSX.
Feel free to share anything here and thanks to the LF forum folks for making this possible.
Joe
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Excellent idea for a thread, Joe. I will officially be in the 'Cezanne Club' come the first week of March, as that's when my scanner is due to arrive.
Mine is shipping with a version of CG1.0, so i won't be able to offer any inputs on differences in the applications beyond what Screen USA told me, which is reduced scan times (by half) and as you noted, OSX compatibility.
If you guys have any suggestions for a first timer that would help me along the learning curve, I'd be very grateful for any inputs.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Scott, did you buy a new Elite scanner? If so, what are they selling for now ? Did you buy direct, or a dealer?
When you say it will scan in half the time, I think you are referring to the Elite vs. the Original Cezzanne (non Elite). right? I don't think software was ever the bottleneck...
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Scott got a great deal on a used Elite as I recall :). They are still available new but are (almost) made to order. I don't think they sell 10 of them a year worldwide. The last time I asked, which was nearly three years ago, they were selling direct from Screen for 18-24K factory refurished and IIRC over 30K new. IMO, it makes o sense to buy one new when you get better all around performance from the Kodak/Creo IQsmsart 2 and 3 and a lower price.
The Elite's main advantage over the original Cezanne is its speed and it is a hardware/firmware change AFAIK, both machine use basically the same software. In the 2000 Seybold tests the original machine got overall slightly higher marks than the Elite.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ted Harris
Scott got a great deal on a used Elite as I recall :). They are still available new but are (almost) made to order. I don't think they sell 10 of them a year worldwide. The last time I asked, which was nearly three years ago, they were selling direct from Screen for 18-24K factory refurished and IIRC over 30K new. IMO, it makes o sense to buy one new when you get better all around performance from the Kodak/Creo IQsmsart 2 and 3 and a lower price.
The Elite's main advantage over the original Cezanne is its speed and it is a hardware/firmware change AFAIK, both machine use basically the same software. In the 2000 Seybold tests the original machine got overall slightly higher marks than the Elite.
did you investigate the yellow color cast in your Cezanne scan test?
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bglick
Scott, did you buy a new Elite scanner? If so, what are they selling for now ? Did you buy direct, or a dealer?
When you say it will scan in half the time, I think you are referring to the Elite vs. the Original Cezzanne (non Elite). right? I don't think software was ever the bottleneck...
hey guys, i picked up a used screen cezanne, not the elite. and yes, i was mistaken - the elite scans faster than the cezanne regardless of the software version.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Joe, not yet. Maybe later in the week. I've been busy with the magazine and scanning on the IQsmart 3 for clients and printing for a show.
However, since I've scanned since that one with no problems my guess is a powerline 'burp' .... I did notice the battery in the UPS is dead which would also kill the power smoothing functions.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ted Harris
Joe, not yet. Maybe later in the week. I've been busy with the magazine and scanning on the IQsmart 3 for clients and printing for a show.
However, since I've scanned since that one with no problems my guess is a powerline 'burp' .... I did notice the battery in the UPS is dead which would also kill the power smoothing functions.
power is not likely the problem as the power supply in these scanners is pretty high end and it would seem that a brownout would generate a power failure detection which is standard practice on high end equipment over the last 20 years, the yellow color cast appears to be in all the scans not just one and I notice the sharpness of what I suspect is a 3d object isn't that great? was it the elite that improved upon 3d objects, it was some scanner family that I read somewhere
well if you are done with your Cezanne I'm sure someone would like to buy it, the IQ3 sounds like it's serving you well
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Joe, what do you mean by "apparent in all scans" there is only one scan in question, all the images you see are crops from the same scan? As I noted the color shift wasn't there in a couple of subsequent scans.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ted Harris
Joe, what do you mean by "apparent in all scans" there is only one scan in question, all the images you see are crops from the same scan? As I noted the color shift wasn't there in a couple of subsequent scans.
interesting - I suppose it would help if I read the actual test procedures - I would like to scan that target on my Elite to provide yet another sample for the comparison chart - if more than one scan was made how did the one with the yellow cast become the reference for scanner comparison? (not a problem Ted, just curious as it becomes representative for folks on this forum) - also it appears that the Cezanne scans are nowhere near as sharp as the iq3 counterparts and I would have thought them to be somewhat closer
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Today I tested a custom holder that has an optical glass (low iron glass) sheet held such that a negative taped to the bottom is at the same height as one sandwhiched between the standard Screen anti-newton glass sheet and the plastic anti-Newton holder. I used a 35mm technical pan negative scanned at 5300 spi. The short story is that the Screen AN sandwich holder was sharper by a little bit. I'll have to get out the micrometer and check the measurements, and I'll run another test with a different film, but it looks like good news, since avoiding Newton's rings with the glass holder would probably require wet-mounting.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Thanks Peter
I think between those of us here we can fine tune the scanning we do. Look forward to hearing more and offering what I can.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Peter, is this overlay glass the same type as Screen sells with the scanner?
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
No, the overlay glass is plain optical glass. In fact, it's the glass tray from an Agfa t2500 scanner. The type that Screen sells with the scanner, and which costs $1500 to replace btw, has a fairly heavy textured anti-Newton surface. My test was to see if that texture causes a loss of resolution. So far, it doesn't look like it.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Just FYI the original Screen tray is 5mm thick plastic, probably acrylic. This is good in that any of us are unlikely to break it, but it's bad from the point of view of scratching. Mine is pretty marked. Does anyone know if acrylic can be buffed?
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Just tried scanning with the negative on top of glass in my custom glass tray. Boy, it's really hard to tell if there's any difference from the Screen holder. Of the three channels, the red was the lightest, the green was darker but of the same contrast, and the blue was contrastier. I really couldn't notice much difference in noise. As an interesting aside, the red channel showed Newton's rings, the green channel showed them even more so, and the blue channel didn't show any.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peter J. De Smidt
Just tried scanning with the negative on top of glass in my custom glass tray. Boy, it's really hard to tell if there's any difference from the Screen holder. Of the three channels, the red was the lightest, the green was darker but of the same contrast, and the blue was contrastier. I really couldn't notice much difference in noise. As an interesting aside, the red channel showed Newton's rings, the green channel showed them even more so, and the blue channel didn't show any.
I have some of the same problems you face but then again I think others do too. My glass is not perfect but it is not that bad either. I find that I have to do a lot of spotting for dust and Newton rings if indeed that is what these swirly patterns are in my images. I am not convinced they are Newton rings because they don't appear to be ring like but again I have not had an expert sit down with me yet either. In any case I can edit images to produce really clean beautiful images.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Yeah my standard tray is fairly marked up. I have the combination tray as well. This holds six inserts, either glassless holders or resin sandwich style holder. The resin holder work well, but they are about 5.5" square, and so they don't completely hold a standard strip of negatives. By standard strip I mean one that'll fit in the usual 8.5 x 11 " negative pages. I really hate the idea of cutting roll film up into individual frames. In fact, I won't do it. That's the main impetus behind my finding an easy to remove glass tray.
Btw., does anyone have the part number for the "transparent original retaining plate"? This is the plastic sheet that you put masks on, tape the negative to the sheet, and then lay the sheet down on the standard "glass" tray. I don't want to bother Kristen again at Screen unless I really have to.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peter J. De Smidt
Yeah my standard tray is fairly marked up. I have the combination tray as well. This holds six inserts, either glassless holders or resin sandwich style holder. The resin holder work well, but they are about 5.5" square, and so they don't completely hold a standard strip of negatives. By standard strip I mean one that'll fit in the usual 8.5 x 11 " negative pages. I really hate the idea of cutting roll film up into individual frames. In fact, I won't do it. That's the main impetus behind my finding an easy to remove glass tray.
Btw., does anyone have the part number for the "transparent original retaining plate"? This is the plastic sheet that you put masks on, tape the negative to the sheet, and then lay the sheet down on the standard "glass" tray. I don't want to bother Kristen again at Screen unless I really have to.
I don't have a problem cutting MF strips or 35mm strips for that matter.
I'd bother Kristen - your scanner - Screen service department
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
I wouldn't bother Kirsten too much unless you are prepared to pay normal industrial prices for the parts. To give you an example, replacement glass tray/scanning bed for an IQsmart 3 is $1700 and an Eversmart Pro is $1400. Bulbs from Screen are $200.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Supposedly the tray is $150, which is high but obtainable. But I'll probably try sanding/polishing a few sheets of acrylic from Home Depot first. Anyway, I think I found the number.U0750250-00 TRANSPARENT O. RETAINING PLATE
My latest tests are showing slightly, and I mean slightly, greater detail with my custom tray. I actually found my resolution test slide this morning, though, and so I'll have to run some tests with this.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
I am new to the cezanne 5500 but am noticing newton rings while scanning 4x5 negs thru the plastic transparency cover that came with the scanner. It is the plastic sheet with the black handles on each side. It's rather heavily textured plastic worries me. I can't help but believe that it cuts down on sharpness. Mine is also scratched!
Are we sure that wet mounting isn't better?
Howard
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Hi Howard,
I'm not sure. My tests last night showed no real difference with the wet mounting, at least with my fine-grained test slide. One issue with wet mounting on a flat-bed is keeping the negative flat if the negative is curled. On a drum scanner, you're fastening to a cylinder, and so as you pull the mylar cover sheet tight, it pulls the negative flat. On a flatbed, you simply can't pull the mylar as tight, and so the negative can still rise up a bit.
So far my tests show a very, very slight loss of sharpness using the AN holders. I have doubts that this would ever be visible. I'm really surprized, though, that you're getting Newtons rings. According to Screen, you're supposed to mount the negatives in the following way. Lay the transparent original retaining plate (TORP) on it's handles. Put a masking overlat on the TORP. Tape the negative emulsion down in the opening of the mask. Finally, lay the TORP down on the standard "glass" tray and scan. Doing this sandwhichs the negative between two textured surfaces, and so you shouldn't get Newton's rings. If you still are, and you're using bw negatives, try scanning as a slide and then examine the color channels in Photoshop. So far I only get rings when using plain glass, but I don't get the rings in the blue channel.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
I've made some ICC profiles for the Cezanne using Wolf Faust's IT8 targets. If anyone would like them, PM me, and I can email them to you.
You would use my settings in ColorGenius. Then when you import the file into photoshop you'd tag the image with the icc file and covert to your editing space.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Just an update. Regarding making a good anti newton cover sheet: so far, no luck. I used methods recommend for making a ground glass using telescope mirror grinding powers, i.e. very fine aluminum oxide. With the acrylic this does produce a nice diffusion, but there must be larger particles in the AO, and this creates a few definite lines. Perhaps this is worse with acrylic than glass since the acrylic is softer. Anyway, I've simply decided to wet-mount all of my stuff anyway.
Recently, I started to scan some 4x5" film. The choice seems to be either to do 1 pass at 2100 spi or 2 passes at 4000 spi and combine in photoshop. Well, even though the settings were exactly the same, the results when manually stitched weren't ideal, as the tonal rendition didn't match up exactly. I'm sure that I could've futzed it some more, but at these file sizes, things are quite slow. (The scanner had been warmed up for at least an hour, and so that wasn't the issue.)
So I tried again. I used the channel mixer to convert both scan to bw using the green channel. I adjusted them using the "contrast" slide to match as close as I could. I then used "automate-->photomerge" to merge the two halves. Well, photoshop converts the BW to RGB when doing this, which is silly. It takes a while, but it did work fine.
I then downsized the bigger file from 4000 ppi to 2000 using "bicubric" interpolation with no added sharpening and compared it to the straight 2000 spi scan . The results are close, but the 4000 spi scans do produce better detail and sharpness on screen at 100%. Darn it. Working with the smaller scans is much faster. I'll have to print off some swatches and see how the prints compare.
With 4x5 a 2100 ppi file gives a 360 dpi print at about 20" x 26".
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peter J. De Smidt
I've made some ICC profiles for the Cezanne using Wolf Faust's IT8 targets. If anyone would like them, PM me, and I can email them to you.
You would use my settings in ColorGenius. Then when you import the file into photoshop you'd tag the image with the icc file and covert to your editing space.
thank you peter for your generous offer. I've been so busy working a print process I haven't had time to scan in several weeks.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
I got a Screen Cezanne Elite FT-S5500 without software.
I want to buy (guess I have to...) either a version of ColorGenius or ColorScope that runs with the machine.
Any sellers?
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Up until now, I've used my Cezanne mainly for BW negatives. It works fine. Recently, though, I've decided to do some shooting with 4x5 color, and so I've had to investigate color issues more closely. I compared scans from Kodak E100G slide film and Portra 160NC color negative film, and I used the profiles I made from Wolf Faust's IT8 targets and PhotoIccMinus profile maker for the slide scans. These profiles lost significant highlight detail. Mr. Faust suggested that I look into Iprof, which he thought would do a better job with slides than PhotoIccMinus. You can find Iprof at: http://lprof.sourceforge.net/ . I used the same scans to make the new profiles as I did the old, and the profiles made with Iprof did a much better job of preserving highlight detail.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
I have the Faust targets and IProf and have had no troubles even with reflective surfaces such as art.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
My Scanner Operator update the firmware on my Screen Cezanne FTS5000. I can no longer access it using my software (Colorscope Pro 3 on OS 9).
I have called Screen and they told me the only way to change to firmware back is to use Colorgenius EX in OS X.
It took Screen a week to get back with me, at a cost of $1000, I could get the software. One of the techs at screen recommended this news group to reach out and find the software from another user.
I just need to use the colorgenius ex software to change the firmware back.
Can anyone help me out?
I also do not have a SCSI port in my Mac pro. Atto SCSI card is $500. Anybody have other ideas for a cheaper solution for SCSI on a Mac Pro
Thanks,
John Thomas
dudefirst@aol.com
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
I use an adaptec 2930 PCI to SCSI card on a G4. Should be about $20 or less on ebay.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Hi,
I have been fortunate to find an old Screen Cezanne. The scanner comes with a Mac with the software and lots of mounting frames for different sizes of originals. There is no operating or transport manual however. The scanner is now sitting inside the car as I am trying to figure out how to separate the cover or flap (I don't know the correct name) that extends out from the scanner bed. There are two grips underneath the flap but the problem is that the flap extends too far out which stops us from carrying the scanner through the door. How can I remove the flap from the scanner? Any help is most appreciated!
Chris
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Turn it on edge to get it through the door?
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gem Singer
Turn it on edge to get it through the door?
The problem is that the flap extends too far out to enable my hands to reach the carrying handles and effectively carry the scanner with another person carrying using the handles on the opposite side of the scanner. The handles are located on the shorter sides of the scanner. There is no need to turn the scanner to get it through the door. The scanner is about 27 inches wide and fits allright through the door. I also don't believe it's a good idea to flip the scanner on its edge.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Hi,
I have a Cezzane unit sitting here in our studio. It has been so long to get it going.
I bought the entire set and after we transported it to the studio, a hard drive failed. Since then I cannot get it going because it gives me a kernel panic whenever the scanner is on.
The system software is 10.3 and I cannot figure it out as to how to retrieve the log at all. I think I properly installed the driver for Adoptec SCSI card... (does anyone use the software on the later version of OS X like 10.4?).
Will anyone can give me a pointer as to how I can possibly get it goging? I would like to start making digital negatives from 8x10 and 7x17...
Again the whole set up used to work without any problem before it came to Philadelphia.
Thanks for your help!
tsuyoshi
Setup:
G5 Dual 2Ghz running OS X 10.3
Cezanne ET-5000
connected via Adpotec SCSI card with a driver (1.2)
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Do you have ColorGenius Software? If so, what edition?
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Hi Peter,
Yes, I do. It is 2.0.6.
Do you have any idea? Thanks!
Tsuyoshi
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
First thing is to go to: http://www.screen.co.jp/ga_dtp/en/download/
Check out the software for your scanner. In the release notes there's often info about compatibility and so on.
After that, call Screen USA and ask for Kristen. Have all of your info ready, scsi card model....She should be able to help.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Hi Peter,
Upon looking at their site, the idea came to me that I have not installed driver for the scanner itself. For some reason, I thought it was sufficient to install the driver for scsi card...
Let me see how it goes. If not, I will call Kristen.
Thanks!
tsuyoshi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peter J. De Smidt
First thing is to go to:
http://www.screen.co.jp/ga_dtp/en/download/
Check out the software for your scanner. In the release notes there's often info about compatibility and so on.
After that, call Screen USA and ask for Kristen. Have all of your info ready, scsi card model....She should be able to help.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
I have a question. Maybe someone who knows Mac a lot can answer.
I am in OS 10.3, and I am tryng to install a driver for Adaptec 29160 (SCSI card). The file is called "Adaptec29160x.pkg." But the file does not show up as an excutable file, and it shows up as a folder in fact (picture 1).
But, if I take a look at the same file under 10.5 or so, it becomes an excutable file which looks like a a yellow box.
How can show this file as excuable under 10.3? Any suggestion would be helpful.
Thanks!
Warmly,
Tsuyoshi
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
OK,
I solved this problem. Someone in a Mac forum suggested me to use Installer in Utilities to open the file.
But that was not why it did not work in the first place. I just learned that I needed 1.3 version driver for this SCSI card (which came with the CD by the way...).
Now the machine is working fine (after 9 months)! I need to learn this software! Looking forward to it.
Thanks for everyone!
Warmly,
Tsuyoshi
http://www.projectbasho.org/img/cezanne01.jpg
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Hi,
I get this banding in the scanned image. Are these because of the dusts on the lamps?
Let me know how I can get these lines off. Thanks again!
Warmly,
tsuyoshi
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
They look pretty wide to be from dust. How are you mounting the film?
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
This isn't related to the lines, but are you placing the film with the long edge parallel to the long edge of the scanner? If not, you want to do so, as the scanner is limited to sampling 8000 points along short edge.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Hi Peter,
Looks like it was dusts related. I finally figured out how to open the lamp box and cleaned it very well. Now it is gone.
I have a piece of AN plexi glass to place the negatives under. I need to get larger one to scan 8x10 and 7x17...
I am still trying to figure out the software...
tsuyoshi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peter J. De Smidt
They look pretty wide to be from dust. How are you mounting the film?
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Peter,
Good to hear that. Thanks for your suggestions!
tsuyosh
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peter J. De Smidt
This isn't related to the lines, but are you placing the film with the long edge parallel to the long edge of the scanner? If not, you want to do so, as the scanner is limited to sampling 8000 points along short edge.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Well another Cezanne in the club. This is the unit Scott was using.
The only manuals that came with it were hardware start up and a thin dual language guide on the software. I'm used to 2 inch thick manuals on equipment and hardware. I feel like I'm missing a lot. I have 3 trays, one with a frosted appearance (uses the hold-down appliances), another which is ruled with measurements and a third which has cutouts with inserts for individual sheets.
Oh, where to start
How to clean, lens cleaner or will windex do.
How to manage the inserts, are they useful?
I've made my first scans, sharp but I'm getting some grainy appearance, I may be over-sharpening,
BTW, Scott and his wife are awaiting the birth of there first, false alarm last night, but anytime now, she's a touch over her due date now.
bob
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Hi Bob.
Did Scott include his ICC files and settings? If so, those would be good for transparency scanning.
For cleaning, I've used Windex and scanner wipes, either from Prazio or Aztek. You don't want to scratch the acrylic scanning bed, as it's about $1200 to replace.
I think I have the manual on CD. I'll look. If so, I'll pass it along.
I'd turn off the sharpening in the color genius software. IMO it's better to do that in Photoshop.
Masking off extraneous light on the scanning bed is a good idea. If you don't, you can get flare around the outside of the negative.
I've been meaning to put up a "how I scan" blog with screen captures. I'm pretty busy for the next couple of days, but I'll make it a priority.
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Re: Screen Cezanne Users Unite
Scott did sent along a profile for Provia.
The shipper was a disaster but luckily noting serious. But it was just placed in a paletted box, plastic wrapped. On top they threw in a bunch of rigid Styrofoam broken into 3x3 pieces. There were little pieces of little white beads and smaller. They brought it on a truck w/o tail lift (in spite of telling them that was a must - even written on bol), took it down and placed in ion the driveway on it's side.
And drove off.
I got laid down properly and opened box. What a mess.
Had to fix 2 sensors, but they popped back in OK.
Other than I keep finding white crap everywhere, its operating fine.
A "how I scan" article would be fantastic.
So far I'm not overly impressed with ColorGenius (1.0), but if it gets the job done, I guess thats all that matters.
Scott tells me he picked up stuff via trail and error, thats the hard way.
Thanks
bob