Did you know that 150mm lens for 5x7?

Bought earlier this year a 5x7 Super Technika IV, it has now new bellows and it's a great camera, even if it is uneasy with the 110 and 90mm... and has no front tilt. Well, I had an Apo-Symmar 150 and that lens with it's 72 degrees coverage and 220mm image circle proved a little tight, not much room for shift, I had some black corners. I had not much hopes for a replacement, as all the SW and Super things in that focal are considerably larger and heavier... and are expensive. But I came across a lens I had never heard about on Ebay: a 150mm Apo Sironar "W" for wide. This one wasn't marked W as it is a pre-N and S version. The good thing with that lens is that it has a huge 80 degree and 250mm coverage, 3 more cm of rise than the Apo-Symmar (the new Apo-Symmar L has only 75 degrees like the Apo-Sironar S and 231mm of circle) without being one of those large and heavy lenses. It is in Copal #1 with the front rim about the size of the Copal, and is quite small, half the size and weight of the Super-Symmar with practically the same coverage. It wasn't cheap, but like new so I pressed the buy it now button. The seller has let me know that Rodenstock dropped it because the demand was not high enough. What a shame. Anyone use this lens? What did it cost at the time it was in production?

Paul,

Yes, I've been using and recommending this lens as a moderate wide angle for 5x7 for several years (I guess it's time to update my Future Classics page). It is a wonderful lens that offers a great combination of generous coverage, outstanding sharpness and reasonable size and weight. I also got mine off eBay, at a very reasonable price. Like yours, mine is the earlier "plain" APO Sironar model. In my article on Rodenstock lenses that ran a little over a year ago in View Camera magazine, this was one of the specific lenses I mentioned to watch for on the used market. Since it lacks the -W designation, many sellers and potential bidders aren't familar with the characteristics of this lens. So, you can sometimes get a good deal. The lens was introduced in the late 1980s (I believe 1987, I'd have to check my notes to be sure). The name was changed to APO-Sironar-W (and a yellow stripe was added around the front barrel) in 1993 when the APO-Sironar-S line was introduced. At this same time, the name of the Sironar-N line was changed to APO-Sironar-N. Due to slow sales, the entire APO-Sironar-W line (there was also 210mm and 300mm focal lengths - which are great choices for the larger formats) was discontinued in 1998 (again, I'd have to check my notes to verify the date, but it's within a year).

Enjoy your new lens, I honestly belive it's the best moderate wide angle ever made for 5x7 landscape work (the 150mm Supper Symmar HM and Super Symmar XL are also outstanding performers, but take bigger filters, weigh nearly twice as much, and usually cost considerably more).

Kerry

Hi Kerry,

As a matter of facts, I checked your "Future Classics" page before bidding, and wondered why it didn't stand on it. But I found another thread on the forum where you recommended that lens. I found later a Rodenstock leaflet where the W line stands, with all the charracteristics BUT... not the weight! I'm sure if Rodenstock had put the weight of their lenses on the prospect, they wouldn't have had to drop the "W" line ;-). You know how it goes, one usually don't pay much attention to a product until one needs it! This finding was a good surprise to me.

Paul

The W was dropped due to the demand for the S eliminated the need for the W. The W sold very well before there was an S.

These were also sold as the Sinar branded Sinaron-WS. Really excellent lenses, and by far the "best" (IMHO) medium-wide for 5x7. I compared a Super-Symmar HM, and was shocked at the size difference, let alone the 150mm Super-Symmar XL, 165mm Super-Angulon, 150mm Grandagon or other super-wides. The only other option are small 8x10 lenses like the 165mm Angulon, 6.5" WA-Dagor, and the like, but these are no where near as sharp nor contrasty, and (in the case of the WA-Dagor) are often more expensive...

The W was dropped due to the demand for the S eliminated the need for the W. The W sold very well before there was an S.

Bob,

I don't dispute your sales figures, and I'm sure the 150mm APO-Sironar-S is a big seller. It's one of my all time favorite lenses for 4x5. However, IMHO it does not "eliminate the need for the W". Have you ever shot 5x7 with the 150mm APO-Sironar-S? I have, and while it covers, it allows for very little in the way of movements. That's where the 80 degree lenses like the Super Symmar HM and the APO-Sironar-W offer a distinct advantage over the 72 - 75 degree lenses. An extra 21 - 23mm of coverage my not seem like a lot, but it does make a difference. I still own both lenses. I prefer the APO-Sironar-S for 4x5, but when shooting 5x7 I grab the APO-Sironar(-W) every time.

Of course, 4x5 is a much more popular format than 5x7. So, that could have a lot to do with the relative sales figures of the 150mm APO-Sironar-S vs. 150mm APO-Sironar-W. They are both great lenses. It's a shame that the APO-Sironar-W line was discontinued, but I can understand the reasons. It probably doesn't make economic sense to have three standard lens lines (APO-Sironar-N, APO-Sironar-S and APO-Sironar-W). And for those who need gobs of coverage, there is always the 155mm Grandagon-N.

Kerry

I don't dispute your sales figures, and I'm sure the 150mm APO-Sironar-S is a big seller. It's one of my all time favorite lenses for 4x5. However, IMHO it does not "eliminate the need for the W"

The same goes for the 210 W and 8x10 - it covered 8x10 with a reasonable amount of movement. The 210 S doens't really cover 8x10 at all - here as well the S didn't eliminate the need for the W as it didn't replace it. So that's two out of the three (?) lenses that the S line didn't effectively replace.

Kerry or others, are there comparable lenses from Schneider, Fuji or Nikon to watch for: compact, highest quality, moderate wide angle for 5x7. THANKS.

The same goes for the 210 W and 8x10 - it covered 8x10 with a reasonable amount of movement. The 210 S doens't really cover 8x10 at all - here as well the S didn't eliminate the need for the W as it didn't replace it. So that's two out of the three (?) lenses that the S line didn't effectively replace.

So, Rodenstock replaced their 80 degree APO-Sironar-W line with lenses that offer less coverage (75 degree APO-Sironar-S). And Schneider replaced their 80 degree Super Symmar HM line with lenses that offer more coverage (105 degree Super Symmar XL). Although I often bemoan the loss of the excellent 80 degree lenses, I understand the economics of this small niche market and am quite pleased that we have as many choices as we do. I'm grateful to both Rodenstock and Schneider (and Fujinon and Nikkor) for producing such excellent lenses in such a wide variety of focal lengths and coverage options.

And, if I really need an 80 degree lens, there's always the used market.

Kerry

Tim,

Unfortunately the world wide demand for cameras that are larger then 4x5 or even for full system 45 cameras is just a fraction of what it was when the Apo Sironar lenses were originally designed. Yes there is a small niche market segment for 5x7 and larger cameras but the demand has fallen so far and the performance of the S is so good that the demand for the 80° coverage lens simply was too small to maintain production in quantities large enough to keep the Apo Sironar W at a price that would maintain viable sales.

Perhaps if 57 and larger ever regains the market share that they had 20 and 30 years ago there would again be a large enough market for lenses like the W. But at the rate things are going now that does not appear likely.

At least for some smaller camera makers there is still enough of a market to justify there continuing to promote larger sizes. But not in the main stream of photography.