Autoshutters - vibrations, shakes, problems

Hi there,

As a part of my drive to start using barrel lenses more, I've mended a Sinar autoshutter and used a biro pen refill to fill in the extra length for triggering a cable. The autoshutter runs from 1/60sec to 8 secs which isn't too bad. It fits standard 5x4" Sinar international front standards.

Just checking it out on the camera, this is really loud! It's also very clunky and mechnical.

I can't believe I'm not going to get camera vibration shake from this - at every speed, just holding the shutter, the whole set-up vibrates when the shutter fires.

Is this the way these are designed?

Any suggestions on how to dampen the vibration welcome.

I got the same problem as well.

Now, whenever I use this auto shutter, I will make sure that I firmly lock the front standard. I may also, in future, try to use an extra tripod to hold the front standard if I use lens with focal lengths over 600mm.

Any other better ways?

The sinar-copal shutters have beeen with us for nearly 40 years - introduced for the sinar Norma, and it have been nearly standard studio-issue for sinar users ever since, being refined with auto aperture control on later versions for the P. It's earned posistion as studio-tool had not been possible if it were troubled with producing strong camera vibrations (when it arrived - continuous light were still most important studio light). I use both the old sinar-norma shutter (for a 5x7 norma) og the newer black DB type for P. My absolutely sharpest pictures ever were taken a few years back with the Norma and a multicoated 250mm Fujinon f 6.3 which I have mounted (shutterless) on a Sinar plate & thus using it only with the Sinar-Copal shutter. It's a joy to "travel" on these slides with a good loupe - details rivalizing the slides from my Rollei 6008. I don't recall shutter speed, but I belive it would have been f 16 or f 22 at 1/30 sek or 1/15. Tripod were a home-improved Slik Master Standard (centerpole removed - head fix'ed directly to tripod body) = about the strength of a Manfrotto 055 or small gitzo. Having used the Sinar-copals for years, I trust this shutter for everything exept working in windy conditions - where the Sinar-copals 1/60 sek is to slow. The main reasons why the Sinar-Copal does NOT introduce exposure-devastating camera vibrations to speak of is probably that the most of the movements/noise is from the stop-motion of the allready closed shutter - after exposure have been made. Important also is that movements in this shutter is all radial: the movements is that of weight moving evenly AROUND the lens-axis - not weight being moved right-left or up-down as in a focal plane shutter or a SLR mirror. A movement of mass around the lens axis will fail to introduce movement of the axis itself, but will rather "try" to make the camera rotate around the lens axis.

Anyway - use of LF camera no matter what shutter used, should allways be on an adequately stable tripod as both the withdraw of dark slide, setting the shutter/aperture, movement caused by you not holding shutter lease untensioned etc. will make the camera wiggle back and forth on its single-bolt rest (assuming you use a standard tripod head) a little while before coming to standstill. A good tripod/head combination zeros this wobbeling in a second or two.

If You are unsure that you have a good camera-tripod set-up (and don't want to waste film to check): use my laser-pointer test: Tape a laser pointer on the cameras front standard and let the laserpoint hit the wall some metres away. Handle the camera as preparing for picture taking & watch the laser dot moving: it should of course be at absolute standstill before shutter is tripped and during shutter tripping. Long time (several seconds) before camera stops wobbelling after ex. withdrawing dark-slide is a sure sign that you are in for a new tripod....

Anyway: I have had great benefit from using my Sinar-Copal shutters, first by being able to use inexpensive but good repro-lenses, and later being able to pick up used super quality sinar-copal-mounted lenses very cheap as most people only want lenses in shutters to use them on their LF-field cameras... Thus - excellent & modern Schneider Symmar-S's, Nikkors etc can be found in DB mount for much less than half their comparable price in a copal 1 or so. Eby UK & germany is good place to search for sinar-copal mounted lenses. As a result I have only one repro lens left: a 210mm f 5.6 Schneider Componon, the rest now being standard LF camera lenses mounted for sinar-Copal: Nikkor W 150mm, Fujinon 250mm, Nikkor-M 300mm, and then two in shutters, Nikkor SW 90mm and a home-transplanted 75mm Mamiya (from 600SE/Press). Wide angles is much better to have mounted in shutter instead of DB mounted as the Sinar-Copal-shutter steals about 1.5cm of the thickness between front & rear standards, limiting movements on wide-anles greatly even with bag-bellows.

Forgot: I use "DB" mount as name for the sinar-copal mounted lenses. This is not all correct as DB stands for "DrückBlende" (auto-aperture system), and the earlier Sinar-Copal's (for Norma) had manuel aperture system - but DB is a short & practical designation. On the other hand: Newer DB lenses can not be used on older Norma type sinar-copal shutters as these lenses do not have a manual aperture-adjusting system - relying solely on the aperture-pre-set mechanism incorported in the DB shutters.

Maybe the vibrations dampen better with a proper cable release maybe not.

That's a long response Tor. It must work well for you in the studio. I'm stuck with Peter in this.

Any better ways?

You should test your set-up! - either with the laser pointer & preferably with film as the pointer does only signal if the set-up is stable, not if any occuring vibration is during- or after actual exposure (i.e. - the breaking-part of shutter cycle). Test should/must be done using a proper cable release of course, as a relatively strong tension is necessary to trip the self cocking shutter. Holding the shutter in your hand & activating it with a plunger is no way to estimate how it works on camera, and just leaves you with bad nerves I assume...