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Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
I've posted a few times here about how Adox Adonal is the only true latest formulation of Rodinal, and been questioned and couldn't find the threads I had read, anyway, I also said Adox would soon officially be called Rodinal and now it's all happening so for those that wanted proof...
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/15/mynemusy.jpg
Se the article from the Adox representative Mirko on this APUG thread.
http://www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?t=127337
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
I've been using a developer called "R09 one shot". Where does that fall on the Rodinal authenticity scale?
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BetterSense
I've been using a developer called "R09 one shot". Where does that fall on the Rodinal authenticity scale?
READ THE THREAD it's all explained there lol. Mostly within the first page or two (depending on if you is the Tapatalk app or the website as the page counts are different.
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Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pawlowski6132
What do mean "rhino"?
Crap... RUMORS.... It's supposed to say rumors... Can a mod fix this please?
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BetterSense
I've been using a developer called "R09 one shot". Where does that fall on the Rodinal authenticity scale?
Could be either genuine Rodinal or not, depending on when it has been manuactured, according to Mirko of Fotoimpex.
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
I checked my original stash of rodinal for rhinos. None there. Can someone with a new bottle verify?
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mihag
Could be either genuine Rodinal or not, depending on when it has been manuactured, according to Mirko of Fotoimpex.
Yes, maybe 2-3 years ago it all changed and Adox's version became the only true last made Rodinal, however it's ALWAYS been, where others are hit or miss.
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
StoneNYC
Yes, maybe 2-3 years ago it all changed and Adox's version became the only true last made Rodinal, however it's ALWAYS been, where others are hit or miss.
True.
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
It can only be called Rodinal if it contains powdered rhino horn. This is news?
And, I read that whole thread again and am still not sure if this new bottle of Adox Rodinal is the identical liquid as Compard's R09 One Shot. I've asked Mirko to answer the question, as he seems to be the only one who might actually know for sure.
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sepiareverb
It can only be called Rodinal if it contains powdered rhino horn. This is news?
And, I read that whole thread again and am still not sure if this new bottle of Adox Rodinal is the identical liquid as Compard's R09 One Shot. I've asked Mirko to answer the question, as he seems to be the only one who might actually know for sure.
It depends on the YEAR of R09 one shot, I believe, so depends which version you are talking about. Either way who would want to use Compard anything when when you can use RODINAL!!! :)
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Who uses Rodinal for sheet film. Really, it used to be my favorite for roll films, but I've never found it useful for sheets.
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
I have. Works nicely with xray films, too. The bottle that I have is 11 years old.
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
The confusion won;t stop because only RO9/Rodinal sold via Fotoimpex/Adox in the US will carry the old Agfa Rodinal trade name. It'll still be sold under different names in the US and the rest of the world.
Ian
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ROL
Who uses Rodinal for sheet film. Really, it used to be my favorite for roll films, but I've never found it useful for sheets.
Really? How come you think it's different somehow, I mostly have been using it for everything lately, all of my sheet film, and yes including the x-ray ultra large-format stuff.
Only recently I've switched to a rotary processor, and I kind of want to switch it for that, but that's more again all films, I don't really see a difference between sheet film and roll film when it comes to how road and all handles either, film is film
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IanG
The confusion won;t stop because only RO9/Rodinal sold via Fotoimpex/Adox in the US will carry the old Agfa Rodinal trade name. It'll still be sold under different names in the US and the rest of the world.
Ian
Yes but when I tell people that Adox sells the real Rodinal and they question me I can just show them be bottle.... Lol
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
In Canada it is Blazinal, named (I believe) after the bulk importer.
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
StoneNYC
Really? How come you think it's different somehow, I mostly have been using it for everything lately, all of my sheet film, and yes including the x-ray ultra large-format stuff.
You've mistaken my intention to learn who uses Rodinal and for what sheet films. I didn't say it was different, although its use and desirability in certain panchromatic films certainly is. I prefer other developers in the tray for their physical and aesthetic capabilities as regards my goal of enlarging (e.g., making prints). Please post comparisons or let me know where your next show is, if you would like to pursue the course of your intent.
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
ROL, I'm not sure that I fully follow what you're asking me as far as posting my comparisons, for future show dates and locations, for what reason in particular does me posting to you about my shows help my own interest?
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ROL
Who uses Rodinal for sheet film. Really, it used to be my favorite for roll films, but I've never found it useful for sheets.
I use it. It develops my film. Just as useful as any other developer.
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Anybody can buy a name. Look at Deardorff.
I hope my cynicism is not warranted. I'd like to start using what's-its-name again
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ROL
Who uses Rodinal for sheet film. Really, it used to be my favorite for roll films, but I've never found it useful for sheets.
I use it for Delta and for FP4..Also on spare sheets of Tri X
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ROL
Who uses Rodinal for sheet film. Really, it used to be my favorite for roll films, but I've never found it useful for sheets.
Me. I use it for 4x5 and 8x10 tech pan.
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Will Whitaker
Anybody can buy a name. Look at Deardorff.
I hope my cynicism is not warranted. I'd like to start using what's-its-name again
If you read the linked thread you would know it's the right stuff... He (the ADOX rep) explained this...he couldn't make it up or lie or he would be sued...
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
I think the bottle should be marked "The REAL Rodinal!"
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
ROL-
Rodinal / Adonal / R09 has been my primary developer for about 6 years with TriX, Delta 100, Foma 400, FP4+ and HP5+. I get excellent results from it and have been happy. I have also used at times Tmax RS, DDX, D76, etc. Probably the DDX is my favorite in terms of grain size but it is expensive. I have grown to where I know what the various versions of the old Rodinal formula will produce and I am happy with my prints from it thus far.
I have not noticed much, if any, difference from the various versions but hey, I am not a great big tester so perhaps there is some slight difference, I just know I like the prints. That said, if Adox can label it's "Rodinal" then heck, might as well get that one.
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Biggerstaff
...Rodinal / Adonal / R09 has been my primary developer for about 6 years with...Delta 100...I have not noticed much, if any, difference from the various versions...That said, if Adox can label it's "Rodinal" then heck, might as well get that one.
Eric, I've been poking around the forum archive and found that you expose Delta 100 sheets at EI100 and process them in Rodinal 1+50. I'm about to perform some trials with that combination and would appreciate a ballpark starting time/temperature. I'll be using Expert drums on a Jobo CPA-2 at around 45 rpm with a pre-rinse. Thanks in advance.
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ROL
Who uses Rodinal for sheet film. Really, it used to be my favorite for roll films, but I've never found it useful for sheets.
Could you show some examples to show why you "never found it useful for sheets", and describe the particular characteristics in the examples that show what you mean.
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
StoneNYC
Only recently I've switched to a rotary processor, and I kind of want to switch it for that ...
Rodinal is a compensating developer when used per the instructions (gentle infrequent agitation).
When using a rotary processor that compensating effect is lost.
I've used Rodinal for many decades on a variety of fine-grain (slow) films, and have been very pleased.
It works fine in both trays and tanks. I never (? almost ?) use it in the Jobo.
Regardless of processing method, you must use 10ml of concentrate per 8x10 sheet equivalent.
- Leigh
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Leigh
...Regardless of processing method, you must use 10ml of concentrate per 8x10 sheet equivalent...
Only if one wishes to do things right and avoid exhaustion regardless of scene content. Prepare for an onslaught of posters who'll report that they "use less and it works fine." :)
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Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sal Santamaura
Eric, I've been poking around the forum archive and found that you expose Delta 100 sheets at EI100 and process them in Rodinal 1+50. I'm about to perform some trials with that combination and would appreciate a ballpark starting time/temperature. I'll be using Expert drums on a Jobo CPA-2 at around 45 rpm with a pre-rinse. Thanks in advance.
I've had excellent results recently with this and have settled on this combo as my main combo.
Delta100 EI100, Rodinal 1:50 at 12 minutes is my happy time for JOBO rotary.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/05/tuhy2u6u.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/05/2ary4y7y.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/05/etetymyd.jpg
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
StoneNYC
I've had excellent results recently with this and have settled on this combo as my main combo.
Delta100 EI100, Rodinal 1:50 at 12 minutes is my happy time for JOBO rotary...
Thanks. Temperature? Rotation speed? Pre-rinse or not? If known, what contrast index do you get?
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
I've seen Sergei uses Rodinal with excellent results....yes, developing sheets. I've seen others use it also w/similar results. I've used it back in early 70's with Panatomic-X....and nothing stands in my way to do it again (OK, maybe rhino ?). Anyway, it's good to know.
Les
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sal Santamaura
Thanks. Temperature? Rotation speed? Pre-rinse or not? If known, what contrast index do you get?
Stone, also are you in Expert drum 5 sheets in a drum or in regular Jobo drum?
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kevin J. Kolosky
Could you show some examples to show why you "never found it useful for sheets", and describe the particular characteristics in the examples that show what you mean.
To clarify, when I did my last round of film/developer testing well over 10 years ago, I found no particular advantage over other developers in terms of my preference of larger straight grained (125 – 400) LF sheet films and tray process workflow. Since that post I have gone back into my archives and given another look at the negs and proofs, and frankly have decided that I may patch that relationship up and give Rodinal another try. As I indicated, for slow speed 120, it was indeed my favorite, relatively bombproof, developer. If Stone's images are accurate representations of actual physical prints, I may fall in love again, though I am no aficionado of tabular grain films.
BTW, Kevin, I hope that the request to post examples wasn't intended as (laying down of) gauntlet. I post pix and direct link examples to my own work regularly enough here, when appropriate, probably in the top 5% at least. My only presence in this thread was legitimate inquiry and to appreciate what others were doing with a previously loved developer.
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Here is what I use:
Rodinal / Adonal/ whatever - 1+50, 68F
Rotary - Use a Beseler motor base with the Jobo 3010 drum, not sure of rotation speed, will check next time I am developing (this weekend)
Film: Delta 100
Rated ISO: 100 (with my meter, yours will likely be different so you need to test for correct ISO)
Normal: 6 minutes
+1: 7.5 minutes
+2: 8.75 minutes
-1: 5 minutes (This is pushing it a bit, I do all right with it, but not the best combination for minus development)
-2: Don't do
I do a 4 minute pre-rinse in the drum with it rotating, I have always done it and see no reason to stop despite what Ilford says.
If I can dig up my old curves and densities I will post them, just not sure where they are at the moment and I have had a couple of Margarita's so probably won't look tonight! :-)
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Biggerstaff
...Rated ISO: 100 (with my meter, yours will likely be different...
Not likely. Yours, mine and Arne's seem to read pretty much the same. :) See this thread:
But I'll be testing anyway. Looking forward to any additional data you post.
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Almost forgot, I use 750 ml in a 3010 drum to develop 5 sheets of 5X7. Have fun!
Off to watch a movie and have another Margi!
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sal Santamaura
Thanks. Temperature? Rotation speed? Pre-rinse or not? If known, what contrast index do you get?
I have a JOBO CPE (original) it has only 1 speed so I'm not sure what speed that would be on the newer processors, it's ABOUT the same speed as my Beseler? BUT I've never actually compared them side by side.
I always pre rinse for about 2 minutes, dump, and pre rinse another minute.
Temp is standard 68 degrees. The CPE isn't all that accurate, but I use a separate thermostat and it stays between 68-70 the whole time. I do a quick water wash and dump after development and before the stop, I find it SLOWS the development so that the stop doesn't cause any uneven-ness to the images, never had streaking, drag, or unevenness with this process...
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ginette
Stone, also are you in Expert drum 5 sheets in a drum or in regular Jobo drum?
2551 drum with 1 or 2 2509n reels (or sometimes I mix and match 120 and 35mm in there, same film.
I always use 1L for the Rodinal, it's so cheap and easier to use 20ml then 17ml or 16ml for various coverage minimums....
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Biggerstaff
Here is what I use:
Rodinal / Adonal/ whatever - 1+50, 68F
Rotary - Use a Beseler motor base with the Jobo 3010 drum, not sure of rotation speed, will check next time I am developing (this weekend)
Film: Delta 100
Rated ISO: 100 (with my meter, yours will likely be different so you need to test for correct ISO)
Normal: 6 minutes
+1: 7.5 minutes
+2: 8.75 minutes
-1: 5 minutes (This is pushing it a bit, I do all right with it, but not the best combination for minus development)
-2: Don't do
I do a 4 minute pre-rinse in the drum with it rotating, I have always done it and see no reason to stop despite what Ilford says.
If I can dig up my old curves and densities I will post them, just not sure where they are at the moment and I have had a couple of Margarita's so probably won't look tonight! :-)
Really only 6. Minutes?? What am I doing wrong??? :/
I started with recommended times
Which is...
Attachment 113307
14 minutes, then adjusted for Rotary to 12 minutes... I can't understand how 6 minutes isn't super thin....?
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Here's one Agfa Rodinal time chart:
Attachment 113308
It shows 9 minutes for Delta 100 in a drum (10 minutes in a tank) at 1:100.
- Leigh
Full doc here: http://www.atwaterkent.info/TechData...al%20times.pdf
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Leigh
That's Delta100 not Delta100pro I believe? It also shows an EI of 80 not 100, so you're slightly over exposing it and then pulling the time. In essence...
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
StoneNYC
...so you're slightly over exposing it and then pulling the time. In essence...
Nope.
"I'm" not using that film at all. Never have, never will. "They" are perhaps adjusting the EI.
- Leigh
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Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Leigh
Nope.
"I'm" not using that film at all. Never have, never will. "They" are perhaps adjusting the EI.
- Leigh
Hah! :) you should it's wonderful!!
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
So I have a question. Just starting out in the Advanced B/W and LF classes at school.
Has anyone used this combination?
Foma Fomapan 400ISO 4x5 paired with Adox Adonal Agfa Rodinol. [OR]
" " with Foma Fomadon R09
Trying to make a decision for class as we have to select a Film and developer combination. Would rather make an informed decision rather than a blind educated guess.
Thanks in advance.
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
doogie
So I have a question. Just starting out in the Advanced B/W and LF classes at school.
Has anyone used this combination?
Foma Fomapan 400ISO 4x5 paired with Adox Adonal Agfa Rodinol. [OR]
" " with Foma Fomadon R09
Trying to make a decision for class as we have to select a Film and developer combination. Would rather make an informed decision rather than a blind educated guess.
Thanks in advance.
FOMA is a classic emulsion, it is not as fine grained and is a little higher in contrast (in my opinion) naturally, and Rodinal is over 100 years old, so it's also very classic, you will get a higher grained image that will be sharp but grainy, if this is what you want (and yes it can be pleasing) then this combo would work.
You really have to try and see what you personally like.
For one, these days I've been enjoying ilford best, Delta100 with Rodinal and HP5+ with DD-X
But that's me....
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
doogie
Has anyone used this combination?
Foma Fomapan 400ISO 4x5 paired with Adox Adonal Agfa Rodinol.
Rodinal is designed and intended for use with slow films (iso 100 and slower).
It does not do well with 400-class films... producing results that are generally too grainy.
YMMV, but that's been my experience with using it for about 55 years, and other folks agree.
- Leigh
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Has anyone seen the new label yet?? I want one!
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Re: Rodinal: Finally putting all the rhinos if what's "real" and what's "clone" etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Will Whitaker
Anybody can buy a name. Look at Deardorff.
I hope my cynicism is not warranted. I'd like to start using what's-its-name again
Quote:
Originally Posted by
StoneNYC
Yes but when I tell people that Adox sells the real Rodinal and they question me I can just show them be bottle.... Lol
i was under the impression they are all rodinal
there are differences between them because
between the 1890s and 2014 the formulation of the developer has changed ..
( i think the link to mirko suggests this )
some may be the formulation from 1899, 1920, others from 1940 and others from 1989 ...
like film .. i am sure if all the formulas for tri x was readily available someone could
make tri x from 1980 or 1950 or 1940 or 2014
would they all be tri x or is there only one authentic one ?
... or have i read the entire post from mirko wrong ...