Jobo vs. Contact Printing Opinions sought

Hi all,

I am sure this one has been discussed a few times, but it seems people are learning new methods as the years progress. The questions deal with the subject title.

1) For developing a sheet of film 6.5X8.5 and larger, what process is better, using a Jobo CPP-2 or doing it the old fashioned tray way?

2) Expense wise, is there a difference in the price of materials that go into developing the Neg? What would be cheaper, the Jobo or the Tray?

3) In terms of printing, do those that use the Jobo prefer to use it also to make the "contact" of the negative OR take the Jobo developed neg and do it via the traditional Contact method...and the pros/cons/whys involved?


I know these Jobo processors go for quite a bit and the drums, the 3000 series in specific are what people would say are "necessary" to get optimal results. From my standpoint, if contact printing is similar in cost in materials, and will yield as good of results, a last question would be:


4) Why would someone pay $600 or so for the CPP-2 (often for just the processor/lift and no drums) and then pay another $250 for the Drum when $850 can buy you basically 1000 sheets of Illford 8X10 film?


Thanks all for your help because I am very much interested in getting a Jobo and will shoot E-6 along the way (I know Jobo would be fine for this process), though I will be "primarily" shooting b/w. I would say 80-85% b/w and 15-20% color.

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Originally Posted by audioexcels

Hi all,

I am sure this one has been discussed a few times, but it seems people are learning new methods as the years progress. The questions deal with the subject title.

1) For developing a sheet of film 6.5X8.5 and larger, what process is better, using a Jobo CPP-2 or doing it the old fashioned tray way? .

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Better? Vanilla or chocolate? Whatever works for you.

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Originally Posted by audioexcels

2) Expense wise, is there a difference in the price of materials that go into developing the Neg? What would be cheaper, the Jobo or the Tray?

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Depends on your developer. For something like colour that uses relatively low amounts of chemicals rotary is cheaper. For B&W it depends. I use D-23 1:3 and that fills a tray pretty quickly. OTOH if you use something else it might be cheaper for rotary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by audioexcels

3) In terms of printing, do those that use the Jobo prefer to use it also to make the "contact" of the negative OR take the Jobo developed neg and do it via the traditional Contact method...and the pros/cons/whys involved?

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I'm not sure what you mean here. You can process your neg one way. Print it a different way. For B&W I almost always use trays. For colour I always use drums.

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Originally Posted by audioexcels

I know these Jobo processors go for quite a bit and the drums, the 3000 series in specific are what people would say are "necessary" to get optimal results. From my standpoint, if contact printing is similar in cost in materials, and will yield as good of results, a last question would be:


4) Why would someone pay $600 or so for the CPP-2 (often for just the processor/lift and no drums) and then pay another $250 for the Drum when $850 can buy you basically 1000 sheets of Illford 8X10 film?

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You can get a used processor quite a bit cheaper. Why spend the money? It's easier to turn a machine on and walk away. Obviously one of the more expensive ATL would be even better for this. Some people don't like shuffling negatives in trays. If you process colour C-41 manually is more effort then the processor. I'm sure others can chime in with other reasons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by audioexcels

Thanks all for your help because I am very much interested in getting a Jobo and will shoot E-6 along the way (I know Jobo would be fine for this process), though I will be "primarily" shooting b/w. I would say 80-85% b/w and 15-20% color.

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If you get one for colour then the added cost for B&W is zero. :D

I use a second-hand JOBO CPE-2 for developing films - so far that has given good results with all sheet film sizes from 6.5x9cm to 12x16". Up to 4x5" i use the spirals, above that I use print (!) drums. Even 5x7" E6 has turned out nice!

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Originally Posted by Ole Tjugen

I use a second-hand JOBO CPE-2 for developing films - so far that has given good results with all sheet film sizes from 6.5x9cm to 12x16". Up to 4x5" i use the spirals, above that I use print (!) drums. Even 5x7" E6 has turned out nice!

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I had no idea you could use the CPE-2 for anything larger than 4X5??? And using PRINT REELS??? Sounds very interesting and I'm sure those that have been using the 3000 series drum reels would have a say on this one.

CPE-2 is not a very expensive machine, especially if you can get by with using the print drum.

Very Nice:!!

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Originally Posted by Nick_3536

Better? Vanilla or chocolate? Whatever works for you.



Depends on your developer. For something like colour that uses relatively low amounts of chemicals rotary is cheaper. For B&W it depends. I use D-23 1:3 and that fills a tray pretty quickly. OTOH if you use something else it might be cheaper for rotary.



I'm not sure what you mean here. You can process your neg one way. Print it a different way. For B&W I almost always use trays. For colour I always use drums.


You can get a used processor quite a bit cheaper. Why spend the money? It's easier to turn a machine on and walk away. Obviously one of the more expensive ATL would be even better for this. Some people don't like shuffling negatives in trays. If you process colour C-41 manually is more effort then the processor. I'm sure others can chime in with other reasons.



If you get one for colour then the added cost for B&W is zero. :D

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What I was meaning about the printing part is if, say, the person with the Jobo has the option of printing the traditional way one would do with contact printing, via lightbulb/glass/etc. OR if there is a preference to put that 8X10 sheet that was just developed back into the Jobo to have it printed.

With B/W tray developing, how much are you spending to do, say, an 8X10 sheet, and how much would one be spending doing an 8X10 sheet with a Jobo? Simply curious if for some reason it is less or similarly expensive for the developing materials being used.

You can't just put the negative in the Jobo and get a print back. You still expose with the lightbulb. The only difference is instead of sliding the paper into a tray you put it into a print drum. Fibre paper doesn't always like print drums so that can be an issue.

I use 100ml of D-23 stock per sheet. I guess you could use a similar amount of D-76 in a Jobo tank. In a tray you'll have to use quite a bit more. But B&W developers don't tend to be a high cost item.

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Originally Posted by Nick_3536

You can't just put the negative in the Jobo and get a print back. You still expose with the lightbulb. The only difference is instead of sliding the paper into a tray you put it into a print drum. Fibre paper doesn't always like print drums so that can be an issue.

I use 100ml of D-23 stock per sheet. I guess you could use a similar amount of D-76 in a Jobo tank. In a tray you'll have to use quite a bit more. But B&W developers don't tend to be a high cost item.

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Sorry about that. That's what I meant and you got it right. I would definitely be using fibre and other paper types.

On the same lines of the subject, aside from the Jobo, is there a cheap alternative to E-6 color developing in home or is the Jobo going to be the better option more times than not?

While it is possible to develop E6 in trays, I can't recommend it. The bleach/fix bath has an absolutely horrible odor, and you will gag if you don't have excellent ventillation directly over those trays.

If you want to do many sheets, get the Jobo drum and develop in a really deep tray. Use a fish tank heater to temper the water, and adjust the temperature according to a mercury thermometer.

Oh, yeah, on reasons to buy a Jobo:
1: DIY Tetenal 1-L kit is $45, develops 48 sheets, for 93 cents per sheet. A lab costs $5.25 for 8x10, $2.25 for 4x5. So a $600 Jobo will pay for itself within 400 sheets of 8x10.
2: Develop it your way. I recently developed some E6 that had been lying around for a while. I had shot the film just to see what it was like, and then never got around to taking it downtown to a lab. I gave my CPP-2 an inaugural run with a Tetenal 0.5-L kit, and the results were great!! So now what? I want to develop color film at +3 stops because the lab will only give me +2. I really like photographing at night, and the Jobo will let me do it my way.
3: Convenience. It is way less messy than a tray. The Jobo takes up about as much space as a tray setup, hardly any fumes, and tempers the chemicals nicely. Hey, its a Jobo!