The Ernemann Anastigmat "Ernar", a Protar clone?

Hello,

I got my hand these days in Dresden on a very nice Ernemann Heag II Ser II 9x12 cm Camera which I would date after some research and comparison to 1918, maybe 1919 (has a350xxx Camera serial and still the old "Sungod" logo).

The camera came with its Ernemann Anastigmat "Ernar" 6,3/135 mm Nr I.

As the literature did not provide me any results for the construction type of this Ernar, I did some examination.

The two cells of the lensare very different from each other, and the Designation "Anastigmat" for the whole system is right, it is no Doppelanastigmat as I can show later.

The front cell is thicker than the rear cell, has, if you eyetest it as a loupe, a different focal length and very different correction properties.
It has two strong reflexes and on tiny (I searches for a second one but could not find it yet)
So with this pattern it should be a cemented dublet. In eyetesting, it shows that it is not sperically corrected, the view is extremly bent at the corners. Group is outside front concave, rear convex. I can,t get any sharp picture on the matte screen with it ...

The rear cell is thinner and also shows 2 strong and a weak reflex. Also a cemeneted dublet (here I am abolutely sure that it not a cemented triplet!) This group is spherically corrected.
Groupe outside is front convex and rear concave). It has a stand alone focal length of app 150mm

Im resaerch in my classic lens optic books I found only one simliar lens.

this would be the classic (not doppel) Protar from Zeiss 1890ff.

The classic basic Protar has a Old Achromat (thinner) cemented dublett in the front, Classic Landschaftslinse or half of a Aplanat.

Rear group of the Protar is a thicker New Achromat (Neuachromat) and not spherically corrected.

Zeiss made the most famous series as 1:9 and 1:18 (WA), the Westlake book lists:

1890 Ser III F 7,2 DD (doublet/doublet), Ser IV F 12,5 (DD), Ser V F18 (DD)
1891 Ser I F 4,5 (DT), Ser II F6,3 (DT), Ser IIIa F 9 (DD, the bwest known)
1893 Ser IIa F 8 /DT)


Could my Ernar be a reversed mounted Protar II (maybe for patent reasons). Ernemann started making own lenses in 1908...
(I also found some doppelanstigmat called Ernar in the internet, but a 1925 camera, so maybe the name Ernar switched later to different lens types. So her I only refer to the "Anastigmat Ernar")

I have not found any hint of such a reversed Protar in the literature. Maybe one of you has some more information... The real Protar was licensed to some companiea, incl Bausch&Lomb and Ross. By 1900, 100.000 licence anastigmats had been made...

I tried to identify the different ernemann lenses, has any one of you more information here?

(until now I can say the "Ernotar" must bei a Tessar (thanks to Ron's data of his lens), the famous 1.8/2 Ernostar is well known as the Sonnar predecessor), the DA Ernon might be a classic Dagor, the DA Vilar a normal Dialyt...) , Detectiv Aplanat is self explaining, Ernoplast and Ernastigmat (triplet??) unknown. Still searching for more here...

any ideas or hints to my Ernar are very welcome!

Thanks from Germany
Harald

Here are pictures of the Front cell and the rear cell in reflex testing...

Interesting. The VM, which isn't always right, mentions a 136/6.8 Ernar and says it is a dialyte. Hard to tell whether a trade name was used for more than one design type.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Fromm

Interesting. The VM, which isn't always right, mentions a 136/6.8 Ernar and says it is a dialyte. Hard to tell whether a trade name was used for more than one design type.

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Thanks, Dan. There is a 1925 maybe dialyte that was called "DA Ernar" (mine is rightfully labeled "Anastigmat Ernar"). Ernemann surely reused the nice Name Ernar (sounds like "Elmar...") maye for a normal diayt, maybe a 6.8 type. See the recent Zeiss Tessars and Tele Tessars...

I am just working on cells of various types and their reflections (size and direction of th image and the direction the reflexion "travels" when the light comes in a flatter angle to the lens...

Maybe you know the basic: if I have a single collecting lens (eg the Front lens of a cooke triplet), I get a large mirror image and a small one (both heading in different directions when the light soruce is not round) Do you know which one is the reflection from the outer (more curved) surface?

What does the VM for the DA Ernon (Dagor?) and the Ernotar (Tessar?)

thanks
Harald

According to the VM: DA Ernon, dagor type. Plain Ernon, tessar type. Ernotar, tessar type.

thanks!