Yet another"which LF should I buy" post -- but w/ redeemable qualities

I too started out with a Calumet and was able to do everything I wanted, but not with wide angle lenses. Within its physical limitations, it does as well as any other light-tight box. I sold it then later bought an inexpensive Omega/Toya 45-something. That does just fine too, but with similar limitations on WA use. I wouldn't think extreme motions are often needed for landscape and field work, and I can't imagine taking a monorail camera on a hike! Yuck. The flat bed cameras vary widely in features, but even some of the old Graphics can give you more movements than you might think. First, decide where the subject, lens, and film planes need to be. Then, use any available movement to get the lens and film in the correct relationship, by dropping the front bed, or whatever. Then, align the warped mess to the shot. "Pure" movements are nice if the camera is that flexible, but sometimes you have to get a bit creative with whatever mechanics are available.

Also, there is no state or federal law that says lenses have to be mounted in the center of lensboards...

John, I will second the vote for the Discovery. I love mine. Fairly lightweight, easy to use, well built, more movements than I have ever needed. It's true there is poor manufacturer support in the U.S., but the few retailers who sell them are FANTASTIC. As a previous poster mentioned, the Toho should probably be in the running based on Kerry Thalmann's reviews as well.

Are you sure the Speed Graphic doesn't have front forward tilt? I just got a Super to play with and it does. I will admit I am not a Graphic expert, but you'd never find the tilt on your own if you didn't know it was there. Takes some playing with it -- from the CameraQuest web site "* Front Tilts are ingeniously hidden. Look at the bottom of the front lens standard, on either side, inside of the knobs which control the back tilt. You will see what appear to be chrome clips which have no obvious purpose. After loosening the lower outside knobs, push down on each of the chrome clips at the same time, and tilt the lens standard forward. Amazingly, the standard tilts forward, who would have thought it?" Welcome to the group!

-Jen

The Arca outffit seems like a good deal and they are wonderful cameras. Since yo u already have a 90mm lens the 150 that comes with the Arca will give you a nice 2 lens set-up. The camera is simple and I don't really think you'll need any su pport. Can't imagine why you'd worry about the DOF thing - make a chart on paper for your 2 lenses and carry that with you if you need. Oh yeah - keep the Super Graphic for the times you want it for its advantages - compactness toughness an d RF focusing. You do still have the 127 (or whatever) and the cam don't you? Ha ve fun and shoot lots of film.

The Toho looks like a very nice camera, butI have a Gowland pocket view camera (monorail with full front movements, rear swing and tilt) There are no positive detents, so it is a pain in the rear to center, but it weighs in at 2 pounds. That is almost as light as my 35mm camera! I use the velbon maxi325I (very light and cheap).

Price: Gowland view $250 on ebay, tripod $90.00 B&H. Has a spring back, but you can get this camera with the graflock.

Thanks, Jennifer, for the tip on how to get the front standard to tilt forward. Unfortunately, the clips you mention don't exist on the Speed and Crown Graphics, only the Super I think. However, I should mention that I received an email from Erik Ryberg in which he stated that the front standard can be reversed using basic jewelers tools to achieve downward front tilt. Just thought it was worth mentioning.

I've never understood why anyone would take a camera (monorail) designed for one purpose (studio and other indoor work) and then try to adapt it to a use (landscape) for which it was never intended when there are plenty of cameras out there (Wisner, Wista, Technika, Canham, Tachihara, Walker, Shen Hao, et al) designed specifically for the intended use (landscape) to which the ill suited monorail camera is going to be put. I've never heard anyone say they needed the extensive movements of a monorail camera for landscape work - quite the opposite - the movements normally needed for landscape are fairly minimal. And even if for some reason you think you'll need those movements, plenty of field cameras have very extensive movements.

This is in no way intended as a criticism of monorail cameras. It's just that I don't think they're the best choice for landscape work. IMHO you should do yourself a favor, forget about monorails for your landscape work, and get a camera designed for the use to which you plan to put your camera - i.e. a field camera for field use.

The only folding camera I know that will fit your needs ("My subjects range from macro to landscape. I'd like something that is reliable, easy-to-use (and relatively quick on setup/breakdown), precise, and affordable (probably the most important feature). ) is the Canham DLC. It will easily do 1:1 macro with a 210 or 240mm lens, yet fits all of your other criteria as well... except for price.

Of the three you mention, the Norma and the Discovery are better than the Sinar F1.The Norma and the Discovery are more rugged, more stable and certainly less bulky.<P. But you want a depth of field/tilt angle calculator. Rodenstock distributes a terrific one: the Rodenstock Depth of field / Scheimpflug calculator. This little device (it is about 8.5 x 11.5 x .5 cm) work s really quickly, is very accurate and costs about US$35.00. it is actually more accurate than the one built into the Sinar F1 camera as it lets you take into account reproduction scale, angle that the camera is tilted at and various formats from 6x4.5cm to 8"x10" -- this last bit is very important as it lets you take into account the more critical focusing requirements of smaller format cameras. it is very easy to use, even for the mathmatically challenged.

John:

Before weighing in, full disclosure: I'm the one selling the Discovery kit. That said, any of the cameras you and others mentioned might fit easily the bill, as well as some of the others recommended here.

It comes down to which one gets in your way the least and that's entirely personal. If you like your tilt control on the right, it's the Sinar F; on the left, the Arcas. Do you loop your fingers underneath the standards to lift them? Then the Sinar F might feel best. Prefer a geared focus track? Get an Arca, or a Linhof Kardan. There's no right answer and no substitute for laying your hands on each.

Regarding the advice to stick with a "field" camera for the field, I think the whole question's somewhat silly. A Discovery's 6.2 pounds; the Sinar F, about 7; the Linhof Technika 6.6; the Toho monorail about 4 (?). So there's not always a weight advantage to the field camera. Jack Dykinga carries an Arca into the field. So did Saint Ansel in the early '70's. Richard Avedon uses a Wisner Technical Field in the studio. A lunatic friend of mine lugs around a Sinar X.

Yes you can fold a field camera, but not always with the lens still attached. You can set up an Arca OR Sinar in less time than, say a Wisner or Linhof. Sure you don't need extreme movements in the field, but I'd argue monorail movements enjoy the advantage in that they are more, for want of a better word, transparent-- i.e. less fiddly, more secure, fewer knobs and struts to twiddle. But again, this is so personal.

As for the bulk: Arca lensboards are HUGE, so Advantage Sinar. But the Sinar's tripod mount stands very tall, so Advantage Arca. The Arca takes a folding and/or telescoping rail. It mounts directly to Arca, Kirk and Acratech ballheads. Sinar does enjoy better dealer and service support, although there's practically nothing to go wrong with ANY large format camera-- they're incredibly simple devices.

In short you can't go wrong with either. Some help, huh?

Eric: I have an 8x10" Gowland and I've scribed alignment markings for rise/fall and swing on the camera to make setup quicker. If you're hesitant to take a sharp object to your camera, you can use a pencil.