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Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
While Kodak's likely bankruptcy filing has been getting all the attention, a local photography institution in the Washington, D.C. area has filed for bankruptcy and they're having a big sale. I don't know how how much if any large format gear they have on hand these days but thought some here might be interested.
It's very sad to see these household names disappearing. I grew up in Washington, D. C. and first got into photography when I was about 12 years old. I remember buying film and some very basic darkroom gear at a Penn Camera store in downtown D.C.
http://www.penncameras.com/message.html
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Too bad they'll die. I've experienced it several times in Europe.
My guess: Digital ruined them. A camera store needs to stock cameras, but due to the short release times of new models they were doomed to lose their margins because of falling prices.
They should have focussed more on film and analog equipment. I've made a quick search with the term 'large format' and guess what came up? Digital cameras! Then I submitted the term 'film', and after scrolling past some film material I ended up with worthless digital cameras.
The hype is 'eating' it's children...
Let's pray that at least the large format shops like Badgergraphic, etc. will stay alive for the next 50 years.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
From 1956-1958 I was serving in the US Army Dental Corps. Stationed in the Washington, DC area.
While waiting to be discharged, I used my mustering out pay to purchase a used Rolleiflex f3.5 TLR from Penn Camera. A short while later, I traded it for a brand new f2.8 Rollei from the same Penn Camera Store.
At the time, I believe Penn only had one store in DC. I was a huge, well stocked operation. They were great people to deal with.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
I was stationed at Fort Meade in the early 70's. Penn was a regular institution for me. I got my RB-67 there and regularly bought film from them. Until I saw this post, I hadn't thought about them for years. But it does bring up a wisp of nostalgia.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Actually they are only closing 5 of 8 stores. I don't think I even knew the 5 closing existed and I have lived here for the last 36 years. Stock from the closing stores will be sold as clearance at the three remaining stores.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Fewer people are doing wet darkroom work now. Very little film being sold. On the hardware side, people come check things out, use up the time of your salesperson, then find the lowest price on-line and buy it that way, getting a lower price and skipping the sales tax.
Pretty hard for a brick and mortar store to overcome all that.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kevin Crisp
Fewer people are doing wet darkroom work now. Very little film being sold. On the hardware side, people come check things out, use up the time of your salesperson, then find the lowest price on-line and buy it that way, getting a lower price and skipping the sales tax.
Pretty hard for a brick and mortar store to overcome all that.
B&H and Adorama are brick and mortar stores.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
I'll buy from brick and mortar stores if they have it in stock. If they have to order it, then well hell I can do that for myself and not have to make a second trip.
I have never ordered anything on line that I decided to buy after handling that item in a store. Personally, I think that's a myth. It seems to me, though, that instant gratification being what it is, people will pay a little more for what they are already salivating over rather than have to wait a week to get it from a mailorder house.
Of course, Moe out at Ace Photo (in a much more accessible--to me--part of northern Virginia) has been willing to dicker on price from time to time to compete, at least for his better customers. Several times at Penn, when I've tried to talk to them like a grownup, I've gotten a rotten attitude in return. Maybe I've just been unlucky. I've spent many, many thousands of dollars at Ace Photo, and maybe less than a thousand at Penn (I think I bought a Vivitar 283 flash from them, and maybe a lens that was on sale, and my wife has bought another lens that was on sale). I've never visited B&H in person without walking out with something, and I'm quite sure I've spent more in their store in person than by mail.
But since my return to large format, and since I've been augmenting my collection of Pentax 6x7 stuff, I've been able to find little to buy in any brick-and-mortar store. Mostly I'm buying from other people here, or in bits and pieces in stores I happen to visit while traveling. The last time I wandered into Penn at Tyson's Corner, I just couldn't find anything to be interested in, not even 17x25 inkjet paper.
Rick "noting Ace Photo has a better selection of lighting equipment, tripods, and cases--the stuff many people really need to see in the flesh before buying--than Penn Tysons" Denney
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kevin Crisp
Fewer people are doing wet darkroom work now. Very little film being sold. On the hardware side, people come check things out, use up the time of your salesperson, then find the lowest price on-line and buy it that way, getting a lower price and skipping the sales tax.
Pretty hard for a brick and mortar store to overcome all that.
Exact same thing that happened to Photomark here in Arizona - tirekickers kicked the store into the gutter - arghh.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Yes, I don't think digital is killing stores, but the dreaded internet.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Penn Camera never adapted to the changing environment. They were tweaking product lines when they should have been asking--What makes a photography store relevant in the 21st century? I don't think there's an easy answer, but it's not continuing to do the same thing while your customers dwindle.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Let's hope they can keep the remaining three stores and get reorganized with a smaller footprint.
They bought up a few stores in Baltimore that was never their core market. It's tough to keep a lot of stores stocked with inventory that hasn't been moving during the economic downturn.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
I gave up on the Penn Store in Rockville when the manager told me that the salespeople were on commission, so I should expect them to lie to me to their advantage. There were a number of times when waiting for service in a busy store prior to that I could see them pushing the same product to people no matter what their stated needs were. I certainly won't miss that particular store. I'd much rather do the travel and the tolls and go to Ace. Won't be missed by me.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
And yet, with those negative statements about Penn Camera, they managed to stay in business for more than 55 years.
Some of their customers must have been satisfied.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
I used to go to the DC store to buy 8x10 sheet film all the time. But I can't remember the last time I was able to buy it in a store over the counter. Must be 15 years at least.
I have to wonder, since I live in the DC area - is Pro Photo still in business?
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tom J McDonald
Yes, I don't think digital is killing stores, but the dreaded internet.
Not neccesarily, If it weren't for the internet, large format wouldn't be nearly as wide-spread as it is. I can buy chemicals locally, but everything else thats LF, even graded printing papers are mail-order for me. The closest camera store with LF gear is 150 miles away.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gem Singer
And yet, with those negative statements about Penn Camera, they managed to stay in business for more than 55 years.
Some of their customers must have been satisfied.
My experience with them only goes back about a dozen years, not 55 years. I can think of LOTS of camera stores that used to be wonderful, but only a few that still are.
Rick "past performance is no guarantee of future results" Denney
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
C'mon Rick, I'm sure that the sales people at Penn Camera that you experienced were not the same folks that helped me out 55 years ago.
I'm also sure you realize that a business is only as good as the people who run it.
Companies that have managed to remain in business for 55 years are few and far between. Penn Camera made the grade.
That was the point I was trying to make.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gem Singer
Penn Camera made the grade.
That was the point I was trying to make.
And now apparently they aren't making the grade anymore, which was the point I was trying to make.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
:rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bob Salomon - HP Marketing
B&H and Adorama are brick and mortar stores.
Same old sad song Bob? Not many of us can walk in to a camera store like we once knew. I'm thankful for internet vendors but many of us miss the social shopping experience. I'd just as soon shop at Amazon.com since that face to face shopping experience is gone with the wind.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bill L.
I gave up on the Penn Store in Rockville when the manager told me that the salespeople were on commission...
I dealt with Penn for 44 years, and they were always quite proud of the fact that their staff was NOT on commission.
However, as they expanded to multiple sites, that decision may have been left to each individual store manager.
Considering the manager in Rockville it wouldn't surprise me.
I only visited that store twice, so I'm not familiar with its operation.
- Leigh
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Thank you for the update on the sale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rdenney
Of course, Moe out at Ace Photo ...
The last time I wandered into Penn at Tyson's Corner, ...
Rick "noting Ace Photo has a better selection of lighting equipment, tripods, and cases--the stuff many people really need to see in the flesh before buying--than Penn Tysons" Denney
I had the opposite experience with Ace, [we can talk about that off line]
While Penn Tyson's Corner, did not have what I needed if I drop in, if I called Chip a day or two before I would come in, Chip would get whatever I needed and have it ready for me. One time I needed 250 sheets of Kodak Portra VC 160 in 4"x5" and he got it for me for the next day. If I need so thing that Chip cannot get, he tells me who has it.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sirius Glass
While Penn Tyson's Corner, did not have what I needed if I drop in, if I called Chip a day or two before I would come in, Chip would get whatever I needed and have it ready for me. One time I needed 250 sheets of Kodak Portra VC 160 in 4"x5" and he got it for me for the next day. If I need so thing that Chip cannot get, he tells me who has it.
No store is perfect. All stores work better if you know someone in charge on a first-name basis. It could well have been just luck that I hit Penn on a bad day and Ace on a good day, resulting in me knowing the owner of Ace on a first-name basis, and never learning anybody's name at Penn.
Rick "who hasn't found the perfect camera store yet, even back when they were not on the edge" Denney
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gem Singer
C'mon Rick, I'm sure that the sales people at Penn Camera that you experienced were not the same folks that helped me out 55 years ago.
Isn't that what I said?
Rick "never doubting that it was a good store at least at one time" Denney
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For the most part I agree, but I would only buy from A-as a last resort. As someone that handles returns from them and has also purchased from them. The majority of returns are merely opened boxes that the end user could not figure out how to use the item & we are not talking electronics but rather on camera flash diffusers that should be self explaining and actually come with very simple operational instructions and also have good tutorials online.
By in large its a sad statement on the American consumer in general. There really needs to be an instituted national sales tax that replaces state sales tax. That in my perception would fix the BS. All the big camera stores also come with their own sets of issues, none are perfect. If you could only buy from one of these bigger suppliers as a result of the other being gone, you would not be happy as a result of the service- that I can gaurantee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
D. Bryant
:rolleyes:
Same old sad song Bob? Not many of us can walk in to a camera store like we once knew. I'm thankful for internet vendors but many of us miss the social shopping experience. I'd just as soon shop at Amazon.com since that face to face shopping experience is gone with the wind.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Even if a sales person isn't working on a commission in the traditional sense, many of the major manufacturers (or their distributors/wholesalers, etc.) give retail sales people coupons or other forms of incentive when they sell the manufacturer's product. The coupons that I remember could be redeemed for cash or used to purchase the manufacture's product.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tom J McDonald
Yes, I don't think digital is killing stores, but the dreaded internet.
I agree, the internet has been and will be death of many retail stores, after christmas i read that sears and kmart are closing several stores because of low sales during the holidays.
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With gas at 3.50 a gallon, it costs me $15 to drive to Penn, and $10 to drive to Ace. I feel a lot less guilty about ordering online when I'm in the store and stuff that ought to routinely stocked isn't there, and to be scolded because I didn't "order" it ahead of time. Sales tax isn't the problem. I've never avoided a major camera purchase because of that. Service is the issue. What service can be provided to customers in a face-to-face sales situation that can't be provided over the phone or on a web page? That's what brick-and-mortar stores need to focus on. People will pay more for service. Those who insist that mail-order has ruined them sound like they are making excuses. Mail-order has been with us for over a hundred years (ref: Sears, ironically)--the Internet just improved the service model.
Rick "noting many stores that focus on quality and service and don't have to compete on price" Denney
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Too bad. I visited Penn on 18th Street a few months ago while I was in DC.
I liked them too. They *actually* carried large format gear.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
If you found large format gear in the 18th Street store, that was a fluke - more likely the E Street store if you saw large format.
In response to Jim's earlier question ProPhoto is still around - business usually seems pretty anemic in there whenever I've been in, but they must be doing more than I realize because they're still open. Maybe their rent is grandfathered or something. They're still trying to sell some old black-and-white printing papers (Oriental Seagull in the blue-and-white boxes, Agfa Brovira) that's more than a decade out of date, in some cases more than 15 years out of date, and when I asked a price on the graded Seagull, they would only give 10% off of list price for buying it in VOLUME.
Back in the day, I worked for Cooper's Camera Mart, one of the Baltimore stores Penn bought out. I have no idea why they bought them out, because they did it and within two to three years they shut it down. I think they were thinking they'd milk the mini-lab business, or maybe they were aiming for the customer lists, or just wanted to get some inventory on the cheap. Who knows.
As to sales incentives from manufacturers, I think the biggest factor is still store management. While I was at Coopers, even though we got SPIFFs from certain manufacturers for selling specific products, management came around and told us regularly that they were more concerned about a customer getting the right camera. The store had built its reputation on customer service, and as such they didn't want word getting around that someone got bad advice or sold what was right for the salesman at Coopers. I won't say I never saw someone pushing a specific brand of camera that had a higher SPIFF, but I don't think I ever saw someone up-sell a point-and-shoot customer into an SLR they didn't want/need/couldn't handle. I did see plenty of back-stabbing amongst sales people trying to claim certain regular customers as personal territory, and occasionally talking to customers like they were stupid, but not up/over-selling.
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I am actually surprised that Penn is closing some of it's stores. At least twice a week a visit both the E Str and Rockville stores - I work close to Penn and live close to Rockville. On Thursday I was at Penn E Str. I did not notice anything out of the ordinary I.e packed with costumers or sale/closing signs.
I have bought a lot of 4x5 films at the E Str store. They keep a few used 4x5 and MF gear and i have bought holders, Omega enlarger, Pentax Spotmeter. LF lenses etc.
I would agree that service is lousy, particularly at the Rockville store. It is different at their E Str store, I think because I wear a suit and bow-tie during the week!
In fact, a fes weeks ago I bought a mint 50mm Nikkor enlarging lens for $15 bucks. I buy all my darkroom supplies at Rockville - sad they are going to be closing both of my favourite locations.
I am not a fun of Ace Photo - Moe has attitude too! Well that is the nature of this business
Tautatis!
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Rockville signage in-store 20% off on b/w darkroom paper and chem...waiting for a deeper discount -- lots of inventory.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
i was there today. All darkroom stuff 30% -no one was touching it. I got a changing tent, Kentmere box of 250 papers, and two bottles of HC-110. They have a ton of papers in shipping boxes. It seems like they will reduce the prices even further. The E Street store may have more interesting stuff because of their rental department. I will check it out tomorrow.
Tautatis.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jim Shanesy
I have to wonder, since I live in the DC area - is Pro Photo still in business?
As of last month it was.
http://www.prophoto-dc.com/
-Joshua
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ImSoNegative
...after christmas i read that sears and kmart are closing several stores because of low sales during the holidays.
Sears (who owns Kmart) and Kmart will be closing an estimated 100-120 stores this year.
-Joshua
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
I stopped by the Tysons Corner store today. Not a lot there. There are some darkroom papers and a modest selection of Kodak chemicals, plus a selection of inks and mostly Epson inkjet papers up to 17x22 (plus maybe a dozen 24" rolls).
They had the usual lots of small-format digital stuff, and a very small selection of used stuff, though nothing that I saw in medium or large format.
They had ink for 24" and up Epson printers, and for Epson consumer printers, but I didn't see ink for the 3800.
I bought some 4x5 negative Printfiles and a couple of discounted batteries for my Canon 5D, but they were sold out of the other batteries we use.
Rick "recalling that the Tysons location has always been oriented to the consumer end" Denney
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
I went to the Rockville store today. The darkroom supplies are discounted 30%--which brings them pretty close to B&H prices. One of the salespeople said they were slightly optimistic about keeping the three stores open, but it seems pretty shaky. I hope they can survive, but I'll be surprised if they make it to 2013.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
I was at the E Street Store this afternoon. They did not have much except for paper and a few chemicals I asked about the status of the store, they said, the owners have not been forthcoming with staff during the whole process. However, they think, they may have one or two stores around. Rental stuff were not for sale.
Tautatis!
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
I have had really great experiences at the E Street store. Ken in rentals is an excellent guy and very knowledgeable about LF items.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
If they're not selling the rental gear yet, that must mean they're planning on keeping at least one store open... but things don't look good.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Well, now it looks like I have to walk a little farther to get my C-41 processing done. I have really enjoyed having a last bastion of walk-up processing for my 120 rolls available kind of around the corner from work, but at least for now there is still something in the city. Can't complain too much about that.
On the many occasions I have been in the 18th st. location (that closed), I have noted the feeling of being an odd duck walking in with film to process. Yet, a huge fraction of their floor space was devoted to their film processing and storage equipment. It seemed like a disconnect in their business. When their processor broke down this fall, I was worried it would not come back. It did. But, the film fridge did go away.
Hey, if Kodak bellies up, then I won't have any more C-41 film to process - problem solved. :(
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scott Davis
old black-and-white printing papers (Oriental Seagull in the blue-and-white boxes, Agfa Brovira) that's more than a decade out of date, in some cases more than 15 years out of date, and when I asked a price on the graded Seagull, they would only give 10% off of list price for buying it in VOLUME.
I've got some of the Oriental paper in the silver packages, the original stuff that Ansel Adams and Brett Weston used. I last printed on it about 8 years ago, and it was probably 15 years out of date then. However, it produced glorious prints then. It may be like Azo in that it keeps for years and years. I'll have to go down there and take a look.
Dick Baghdadassarian always impressed me as a shrewd businessman. They seem to have weathered the shift to digital quite well by concentrating on their repair business and supplying equipment to the local commercial pro community. Their prices have always beaten the pants off of Penn.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
I bought one of six remaining boxes of Multigrade IV FB on Friday for a 50% discount. When I went back on Saturday to get some for a friend, the place was mobbed and the rest was gone.
Plenty of Multigrade IV RC remains in shipping cartons, though.
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Penn seems to be closing rather than reorganizing. Every time I have visited the store, the picture seems to be increasingly gloomier and gloomier. It is a shame that the DC area will now have not camera store that one would smell fixer? The saddest part, it will also pull down a few B&W labs that are around such as The one in Bethesda which did most of Penn's B&W work. Sad period for DC.
Tautatis
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tautatis
Penn seems to be closing rather than reorganizing. Every time I have visited the store, the picture seems to be increasingly gloomier and gloomier. It is a shame that the DC area will now have not camera store that one would smell fixer? The saddest part, it will also pull down a few B&W labs that are around such as The one in Bethesda which did most of Penn's B&W work. Sad period for DC.
Tautatis
what about here:
http://acephoto.net/acestore.aspx?c=abraaa%3aChemicals
Or here:
http://www.servicephoto.com/index.ph...&cPath=129_187
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Dodge Chrome does excellent work. That's where I have all of my developing done.
Service Photo in Baltimore is a great store. I shop there frequently.
Wouldn't go to Ace Photo on a bet.
- Leihg
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Leigh,
Are you aware of a little lab on Wisconsin Ave in Bethesda, MD? It is called L'Imagerie Photography Center. The owner is French - great couple. They used to do all of Penn's B&W processing & printing. Here is their website: http://www.photographycenter.com/
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tautatis
Are you aware of a little lab on Wisconsin Ave in Bethesda, MD? It is called L'Imagerie Photography Center. The owner is French
Yes I am. Great B&W work. I don't shoot any color now. (Not entirely true, occasionally Velvia in 4x5 and 8x10.)
I started working with him when he was on Rt. 1 in Beltsville, before he moved to Bethesda.
And I used to teach at the Washington School of Photography, just a couple of blocks from l'Imagerie.
I currently use Dodge Chrome for all my B&W film developing. They're much closer. Traffic in Bethesda off Wisconsin Ave. is terrible.
Thanks.
- Leigh
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Re: Bankruptcy Sale At Penn Camera
I was at Penn this afternoon - discounts are now at 60%. Go and get your fill of RC Glossy papers! I also probed one of the sales staff about the status of the company. He mentioned that there are some interesting developments - an international photography (product) marketing firm may purchase Penn. Sounds great to me if it is true and likely to happen. However, I feel sorry for the staff as it is likely most of them their jobs will be cut. Anyway, that's the news for now!
Tautatis,