Musings about Goerz Berlin – the company and its products

These are a bunch of things I’ve been pondering for a while, and the recent acquisition of a 360 Berlin Dagor has finally spurred me into action. First of all, I can find relatively little historical information about the German Goerz company other than bits that relate to the American subsidiary.

I’ve got the typical list of Goerz serial numbers (the Eddie Bolsetzian list) that everyone uses, but I don’t know for a fact if both companies used the same scheme, particularly after the takeover of the American branch during WWII.

I’d also like to know if there were any differences in the design or materials of corresponding lenses between the two companies. For instance, my 360mm Berlin Dagor (344,xxx) has an aluminum barrel, and as far as I know all Am. Opt. Goerz Dagors used brass barrels. If there was a difference in materials, could there also be a difference in design or performance?

Why did some early Berlin lenses have apparently two serial numbers? I have an early 240mm Dagor, and it has both 74,xxx and 90,xxx numbers on different parts of the barrel. I also wonder about why the product lines differed (mostly because I'd love to find a 180 f9 WA Dagor), but I’ll stop here; any enlightenment anyone could provide would be welcomed.

In the case of the two different numbers, that's simple: The 74xxx number folloing "D.R.P" is the patent number; the other is the serial number.

My 18cm Doppel-Anastigmat Serie III has aluminium cell mounts set in a brass barrel - all combinations seem to have been in use at different times.

A rough serial number list can be found in Hartmut Thiele's "Deutsche Photooptik von A-Z", available from Lindemann Verlag.

Thanks; I should have caught the Deutsche Reich Patent.

I've wondered as well, Mr. Schneider.
My 240mm Doppel Anastigmat Dagor, # 260383 is in a brass barrel with aluminium cell mounts; cells retained by a threaded ring.
My 30cm Dagor, #657010 in compound has brass cell mounts, with the cells spun in.

All of my New York Dagors have threaded cell retaining rings, although my 6", #224050 is brass (compound) and my 9 1/4" (#226??? compound) is aluminium.

I have a 210 or so Dagor type that is a real mystery. It's in an early(#23??) Goerz Sector shutter, has no markings on the cells at all.It does not cover 8x10, as some Goerz Dagors are stated to. But it is a phenomenally sharp little lens.... like an Artar sharp. I'd love to know who made it. The cells are spun in brass mounts.

And lastly, I've read here and there that only 500 of the Kern MC 14" Dagors were made. Does anyone know if this is accurate?