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Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
...for the technically challenged.
Sandy, Ken, etc.,
I think that I have read all of the threads on the subject. Would it be possible to state the procedure for using and relative merits of both developers in a divided, two bath scenario?
I am beating my head against a wall fighting summer heat here in Houston. I love Xtol 1:3, but the temperature variations between summer and winter are killing me. I want simple. Temperature independant. One soup fits all of my eclectic hodge podge of emulsions and formats.
My hardware setup is a Jobo 3010 Expert drum and 2553 tank and reels. These rotate in a single direction on either a Beseler or Uniroller motor base at 30-32 rpm. Ambient summer room temperture is 78°F to 80°F. Tap water is close 85°F. I prewash in tap water.
Please advise a starting point for the 2 bath method and which developer is correct for my current method. I am not a high volume user so long stock solution shelf life is important. Example: It took me 13 1/2 months to use up my last 5 liter batch of Xtol.
Dilution, prewash or not, wetting agent or not, time in each solution, type of fixer, etc. would help me a lot. Subject to my own testing of course.
Thanks for all of your help, past and future. I wouldn't be where I am today (still slightly dazed and a little confused) without your help.
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Is this procedure can help to hanlde the high temp.? A lot of places in the world has this summer of 25c to 35c (77-95f or higher even in LA just recently). What is the limit of temp?
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
venchka
...for the technically challenged.
Sandy, Ken, etc.,
I think that I have read all of the threads on the subject. Would it be possible to state the procedure for using and relative merits of both developers in a divided, two bath scenario?
I am beating my head against a wall fighting summer heat here in Houston. I love Xtol 1:3, but the temperature variations between summer and winter are killing me. I want simple. Temperature independant. One soup fits all of my eclectic hodge podge of emulsions and formats..
To address your questions.
1. If you compare Xtol 1:3 with two-bath pyrocat this is what you would find, IMO. Grain is slightly finer with Xtol, film speed is slightly greater with Xtol, and sharpness is higher with two-bath Pyrocat.
2. Temperature control is less important with two-bath Pyrocat than with Xtol. Film will absorb more of the reducer at 85º F than at 75º F, and this will increase contrast slightly. But the mechanism of development still limits the development of highlight density.
3. I personally use two bath development with roll film that I expose when traveling. This allows me to expose film in a variety of subject brightness conditions and not have to worry about how long to develop the film. The other thing is that this method produces very high sharpness.
4. For development in Jobo with constant rotation I would recommend the following protocol.
a. Use a 1:15 or 1:20 dilution of Pyrocat Stock A and Stock B for most films. Add a few grams of PhotoFlo to the solution.
b. Pre-soak the film for two or three minutes in water at 75º F.
c. Develop for five minutes in working Solution A, at 75º F. Then drain the film for 15 seconds.
d. Develop for five minutes in working Solution B, at 75º F.
e. Use a 1/2 strength acetic acid stop bath for 10 seconds.
f. Fix in any standard fixer. I use an alkaline fixer (TF-3) but the use of a slightly acidic fixer is ok.
f. Wash the film for 10-15 minutes, drain and dry.
Bear in mind that I develop film for scanning, not for printing in the wet darkroom. This means I place more importance on limiting highlight contrast than on developing film to a given CI to match a certain paper or process.
Hope this information is useful.
Sandy King
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Quick question: Why 75ºF for 2-bath Pyrocat, as opposed to the 68ºF that I use for 'standard' Pyrocat rotary development?
I really want to give 2-bath Pyrocat a try, but am going to be challenged trying to maintain 75º F solutions in my plumbing-less basement darkroom up here in NH.
To use lower development temps, is it is simple as extending the time the film develops in both Solutions A and B? If so, I'm willing to experiment a bit to get the right times for 68º F. I use Pyrocat-MC.
Joe
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
anotherJoe
Quick question: Why 75ºF for 2-bath Pyrocat, as opposed to the 68ºF that I use for 'standard' Pyrocat rotary development?
I really want to give 2-bath Pyrocat a try, but am going to be challenged trying to maintain 75º F solutions in my plumbing-less basement darkroom up here in NH.
To use lower development temps, is it is simple as extending the time the film develops in both Solutions A and B? If so, I'm willing to experiment a bit to get the right times for 68º F. I use Pyrocat-MC.
Joe
The warmer the solution the more the gelatin can swell. The more the gelatin swells the more the more reducer can be absorbed. Yes, this is time dependent so the film might absorb as much reducer in ten minutes at 70º F as at 80º F in five minutes.
You might find that 70º F at five minutes will give you the right amount of contrast, but if it does not either extend development time or increase the temperature of the solution. Increasing the strength of the dilution from 1:15 or 1:20 to 1:10 will also result in more reducer being absorbed, assuming you maintain the same time and temperature.
Sandy
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Your explanation makes perfect sense!
Gracias.
Joe
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
A bit worry about the amount of photo flo in job drum. Is that ok? I was kept on being told, in this forum in fact, that it would affect the reel and in fact the drum.
If that is ok, how much as I am not sure the gram part. Also, is that go to solution A and by the way why?
Thanks in advance for any further advice.
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dng88
A bit worry about the amount of photo flo in job drum. Is that ok? I was kept on being told, in this forum in fact, that it would affect the reel and in fact the drum.
If that is ok, how much as I am not sure the gram part. Also, is that go to solution A and by the way why?
Thanks in advance for any further advice.
Someone else will have to address the issue of Photoflo affecting the reel.
However, the reason for the Photoflo is that development of the film is almost instantaneous in Solution B. If the film does not drain evenly after removing it from Solution A you may get uneven development marks. Adding a few drops of PhotoFlo will optimize draining flow, and minimize or eliminate the risk of uneven development marks.
Sandy King
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Thanks. May I assume to add to both solution A and B for the few drop of photoFlo?
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dng88
Thanks. May I assume to add to both solution A and B for the few drop of photoFlo?
There is no need to add Photoflo to Solution B.
Sandy
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Just want to nail it -- add the photoflo at step a i.e. as part of solution A or add it just in the middle of step c i.e. before draining.
Sorry to trouble you again.
Dennis Ng
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Many thanks Sandy! That is exactly the kind of starting point information I need. I also develop for scanning and shoot roll film in 135 and 120.
I can certainly have the A and B solutions at 75°F when they are poured in the Jobo drum or tank. The temperature will rise a little during the 5 minutes of film contact. I can adjust time and dilution accordingly.
A friend of mine spent 2 years in Peru on a dig. No electricity. No temperature control. He used Diafine.
Off to order some Pyrocat-MC.
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dng88
Just want to nail it -- add the photoflo at step a i.e. as part of solution A or add it just in the middle of step c i.e. before draining.
Sorry to trouble you again.
Dennis Ng
You can add the Photoflo at the beginning, as part of Solution A, or you could add it later, so long as you add it before draining and placing the film in Solution B. I always add it at the beginning, when I mix working Solution A.
Sandy
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
A bit of clarification:
I can get my chemicals to any temperature I choose. The problem becomes maintaing that temperature in the Jobo drum during development. If I start at 68°F (or even less), the temperature of the developer rises at least 4° in the first 3-4 minutes of development when the ambient temperature is 77°F-79°F. It has been so hot this summer that the A/C won't cool my apartment below 77°F. At that temperatue, my times are getting uncomfortably short.
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Thunking about blue ice bag. Thinking about trying 24c (75f) setting of jobo cpe/CPA (but not atl-1500 as hard to control external per-soak). Instead , use water pre-soak from bottle in the jobo water bath when it reach 24c after jobo warm up the blue ice bag in the water bath.
Then only the washing would be done at 29c.
Do you think it would work?
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
I would not worry about ambient temperatures when processing in a Jobo with two-bath Pyrocat. The mechanism of development itself serves to limit the range of contrast even with variations in temperature. I would just use a pre-soak at the temperature of your Solution A and not worry about ambient temperature. And temperature makes even less difference in Solution B.
So basically if the ambient temperature causes a rise of a few degrees of the solutions during the course of development this will not change final negative contrast very much.
Sandy
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sanking
I would not worry about ambient temperatures when processing in a Jobo with two-bath Pyrocat. The mechanism of development itself serves to limit the range of contrast even with variations in temperature. I would just use a pre-soak at the temperature of your Solution A and not worry about ambient temperature. And temperature makes even less difference in Solution B.
So basically if the ambient temperature causes a rise of a few degrees of the solutions during the course of development this will not change final negative contrast very much.
Sandy
Exactly why I want to give this method a try.
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
I hope a little more enthusiasm for Divided Pyrocat is not unwelcome. This post prompted me to perform an experiment: a photo made under mid-day Sun on a cloudless day - something I haven't done with a View Camera in decades, if ever.
With ordinary methods of exposure and development, adequate detail in both the shadows and high values would have been impossible. The shade areas would have been black and lifeless, or the sun-lit wall would have been white - but it was trivial with Divided Pyrocat.
I simply metered the shadow area and placed it on Zone IV. The high values fell way off the scale, but the 2-bath development process took care of that. The shadow area has full separation - a remarkable feat - as do the high values.
Sandy's suggestion of adding a few grams of Photo Flo to Solution A, has worked wonders: I now get perfectly even development.
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
I've been using Diafine for all of my 4x5 development but have been considering giving a pyrocat version a try. I develop in a HP Combi-Plan daylight tank.
Is it possible to use that tank or do I need to go with something else? How much agitation would be needed?
Thanks!
William
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Barnett-Lewis
I've been using Diafine for all of my 4x5 development but have been considering giving a pyrocat version a try. I develop in a HP Combi-Plan daylight tank.
Is it possible to use that tank or do I need to go with something else? How much agitation would be needed?
Thanks!
William
I think you should be able to use the Combi-Plan with two-bath Pyrocat. If it works with Diafine I think you should be ok with Pyrocat.
When I develop in tanks I agitate for a full minute at first in Solution A, and then for 15 seconds every minute thereafter. Be sure to add a few drops of Photoflo to Solution A. After finishing the time in Solution A drain for about 15 seconds.
I am not sure how you pour in the developer with a Combi-Plan, but if possible you need to remove the lid and pour in all of Solution B as quickly as possible. Then agitate continuously in Solution B for a minute, and for about 15 seconds every minute thereafter.
Sandy
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Ok, thanks for the information. I may have to experiment a bit, especially with the part b as it's a slow filling funnel job on this tank. Diafine doesn't care much about that. I'm working on convincing my wife that turning the walk in closet into a dark room is a good thing ;)
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ken Lee
Sandy's suggestion of adding a few grams of Photo Flo to Solution A, has worked wonders: I now get perfectly even development.
Ken, how much Photo Flo are you really adding? I recommended a few drops, not a few grams!!
In any event, great results in your image of the barn.
Sandy
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Seriously, I actually added a few grams of PhotoFlo. It ended up being quite a few drops. See your post below:
"a. Use a 1:15 or 1:20 dilution of Pyrocat Stock A and Stock B for most films. Add a few grams of PhotoFlo to the solution."
Next time I'll try less. :)
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ken Lee
Seriously, I actually added a few grams of PhotoFlo. It ended up being quite a few drops. See your post below:
"a. Use a 1:15 or 1:20 dilution of Pyrocat Stock A and Stock B for most films. Add a few grams of PhotoFlo to the solution."
Next time I'll try less. :)
Ken,
Thanks for the clarification. It was a mistake in my writing to say a few grams but if you added a few grams and it worked I will need to think about this again. But with Photo Flo a small amount goes a long way. I am just glad that a solution has been found to the problem.
Sandy
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sanking
Ken, how much Photo Flo are you really adding? I recommended a few drops, not a few grams!!
In any event, great results in your image of the barn.
Sandy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ken Lee
Seriously, I actually added a few grams of PhotoFlo. It ended up being quite a few drops. See your post below:
"a. Use a 1:15 or 1:20 dilution of Pyrocat Stock A and Stock B for most films. Add a few grams of PhotoFlo to the solution."
Next time I'll try less. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sanking
Ken,
Thanks for the clarification. It was a mistake in my writing to say a few grams but if you added a few grams and it worked I will need to think about this again. But with Photo Flo a small amount goes a long way. I am just glad that a solution has been found to the problem.
Sandy
For the photograpically challenged.........
I own a very nice 10ml graduate that I use for measuring Rodinal at 1:100. Would 1ml per 500ml of Solution A be considered "a few drops"? Or should I actually use an eyedropper to measure 5-10 drops? I totally agree that a little Photo-Flo goes a long way. I only use about 3ml per 2 liters of water for a final rinse. I think I may have answered my own question. 1/2ml per 500ml seems about right. Eyedropper it is. Or a straw.
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
venchka
For the photograpically challenged.........
I own a very nice 10ml graduate that I use for measuring Rodinal at 1:100. Would 1ml per 500ml of Solution A be considered "a few drops"? Or should I actually use an eyedropper to measure 5-10 drops? I totally agree that a little Photo-Flo goes a long way. I only use about 3ml per 2 liters of water for a final rinse. I think I may have answered my own question. 1/2ml per 500ml seems about right. Eyedropper it is. Or a straw.
I personally don't bother to measure it. I just take the bottle of Photo Flo and pour a small amount into the cap, then add this to Solution A. I just did that to see how much it amounted to and I had a bit less than 1ml, which seems about right for a liter of Solution A.
Sandy
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Thanks Sandy! Eyeball it is!
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
(add photo flo to shopping list)
Continuing my own questions from last night, is there any one of the versions of pyrocat that is better suited to use as divided developer? Original HD or the newer MC with metol? Or another I've missed?
I hope to acquire an Omega 4x5 enlarger soon but in the mean time will still need to scan my negs as well as contact printing them, so my goal is a process that will work at least reasonably well with all three processes. From my reading of your work, I think this could make a really good starting point. Thank you for the help!
William
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Barnett-Lewis
(add photo flo to shopping list)
Continuing my own questions from last night, is there any one of the versions of pyrocat that is better suited to use as divided developer? Original HD or the newer MC with metol? Or another I've missed?
William
As far as I can tell there is no difference in result between any of the Pyrocat versions in two-bath development. -HD seems to work the same as -MC, and although I have not tried the -P version I am highly confident that it would give similar results.
Sandy
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
If you are putting Photo-flo in your Jobo, or any other drum, the next problem for which you will be seeking an answer is why the edges of the film are over-developed. Photo-flo becomes a catalyst as it builds up on on the tank, which it will.
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jim Noel
If you are putting Photo-flo in your Jobo, or any other drum, the next problem for which you will be seeking an answer is why the edges of the film are over-developed. Photo-flo becomes a catalyst as it builds up on on the tank, which it will.
Is there no remedy for the build up of Photo Flo?
Sandy
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Steel wool perhaps? Facetiously grinning.
Since Pryocat in all of it's various forms is a staining developer, isn't the stain being applied to the tanks, reels and drums as well? Are these a problem? Surely good cleaning practices will at least prolong the lifespan of the tankage and reelage.
Or should we all just go straight to digital?
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Here's the method I learned for removing Photo-Flo residue from tanks and reels; a regular 'purge' in 100F water for 10 minutes or so. That was the weekly practice at the custom lab where I worked, c.1978. (I processed around 100 rolls of b/w a week there). As I use pyro developer in a tray, I can't say anything about stain buildup on reels; perhaps an acid, stop-bath type rinse might remove any that remains.
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
I have many stained reels and tanks that work exactly like my many unstained reels and tanks. I wash my tanks and reels in hot water after each use, and have never seen any build-up of anything. Maybe I'm just lucky!
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
What type of agitation for those of us who do not have a Jobo, but use trays.
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
I do tray development* , and follow these instructions.
The first step is basically "uptake" of the Solution A into the emulsion: you want the film to absorb it fully, and agitation helps that. PhotoFlo helps it happen evenly.
The second step is where the developer gets activated, and where compensation occurs because it becomes quickly exhausted in the highlights but proceeds in the low values. You want to agitate enough to get the activator to the emulsion, but not so much as to disturb the compensating effect. That's why intermittent agitation is best in Solution B.
* Actually, I use plastic food containers: much cheaper and better for 4x5 and 5x7 sheets. It's also helpful rotate the containers: One time a particular tray might get used for fixer - the next time for developer, rinse, whatever. They don't get stained at all that way: no problems with PhotoFlo or any other residue.
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Ken,
The instructions at http://www.pyrocat-hd.com/html/mixing.html#divided you referred to are missing dev times for A and B.
Ron
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
"The instructions at http://www.pyrocat-hd.com/html/mixing.html#divided you referred to are missing dev times for A and B."
Here is what it says - with emphasis on the times. Are you referring to something else ?
1. Water bath for five minutes.
2. Six minutes in Part A, with two inversions at the beginning, and two inversions at the 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 points of development.
3. Pour our Solution A and pour in Solution B. No rinse between. Five minutes in Solution B.
Negatives must be fully immersed in Solution B and agitated vigorously for at least one full minute. Failure to do so, can result in uneven development. Two or three inversions at the 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 points of development.
4. Pour out B, pour in water and leave for five minutes.
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Sandy, I see that you do not talk about using Solution A as a stain after fixing. I have seen a lot of discussion about this but never a clear explanation of "To stain or not stain?".
Steve
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Barry,
Since no development takes place in the first bath, there's no reason not to agitate continuously, and since development in the second bath is practically instantaneous, I think it's important to agitate continuously for at least the first 30 seconds, or so. After the first 30 seconds, I don't think it matters much whether you agitate, or not. This is based on my experience developing ortho film in a single tray, under a safelight. Nothing happens in the first bath, except that the backing dye is washed away, and the emulsion absorbs the developing solution. The film is completely clear after the first bath. When I pour the second bath into the tray, development is almost instantaneous, very similar to what one sees with WPC development. After 30 seconds, not much that's obvious happens. There might be a measurable increase in contrast after the first 30 seconds of development, but I doubt it's significant.
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sirius Glass
Sandy, I see that you do not talk about using Solution A as a stain after fixing. I have seen a lot of discussion about this but never a clear explanation of "To stain or not stain?".
Steve
I have always recommended against using the spent developer to increase stain after fixing. The reason is that the after stain increases general, or B+F stain, but does not increase proportional stain. This basically just increases printing density, with no beneficial effect at all.
Sandy
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jay DeFehr
Barry,
Since no development takes place in the first bath, there's no reason not to agitate continuously, and since development in the second bath is practically instantaneous, I think it's important to agitate continuously for at least the first 30 seconds, or so. After the first 30 seconds, I don't think it matters much whether you agitate, or not. This is based on my experience developing ortho film in a single tray, under a safelight. Nothing happens in the first bath, except that the backing dye is washed away, and the emulsion absorbs the developing solution. The film is completely clear after the first bath. When I pour the second bath into the tray, development is almost instantaneous, very similar to what one sees with WPC development. After 30 seconds, not much that's obvious happens. There might be a measurable increase in contrast after the first 30 seconds of development, but I doubt it's significant.
If you agitate the film continuously in Solution A it will absorb more reducer (at a given time and temperature), which will increase contrast. That is why I recommend diluting the working solutions by 1/2 when rotary processing in tubes or jobo. This will give about the same contrast as normal strength with intermittent agitation.
As Jay mentions development is almost instantaneous in Solution B and there should be no increase in contrast after about 30 seconds. However, shadow density may increase very slightly with longer time because the reducer exhausts slower in areas of low density.
Sandy Kint
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
I've always thought the idea was to saturate the film with the first solution, and adjust contrast by the concentration of the solution. I suppose there's more than one way to skin a cat!
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jay DeFehr
I've always thought the idea was to saturate the film with the first solution, and adjust contrast by the concentration of the solution. I suppose there's more than one way to skin a cat!
Varying the concentration of Solution A is the most efficient way of increasing or decreasing final contrast, but within limits the temperature of the solution, time of development, and type of agitation will all influence how much reducer the gelatin emulsion is able to absorb.
I would suggest that if one needs to make a fairly significant change in contrast for a given film it would be best to increase of decrease the strength of the concentrate of solution A, for smaller changes increase or decrease the temperature or change the time of development.
Sandy
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
Here's another experiment in extreme lighting: white porcelain in full sun shining through a window into a dark room. The high values fell on Zone XIII and higher.
The petals of the sunflower are actually a deep yellow - Zone V normally - and the stem is a medium green - Zone VI - but exposing for the shadows, has crowded the middle and high values together at the top of the scale.
Even so, you can see the difference between white porcelain and the specular highlight of the sun, which was Zone 99
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
OK, I'll jump inn as well: I have a nice box of Efke 820 4x5 film sitting in refrigerator waiting for me to figure exposure and development out before deciding what to do with IR photography. Now for the question for those in know: would this method be good for something as unpredictable as IR photography with Efke film (especially for a beginner like myself)? I was thinking about developing by inspection with #3 green filter until I figure it out, but this sound even more simple.
Thanks,
Marko
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
One way to know for sure. Expose a few sheets and fine tune your method. Worst case: Use the Pyrocat with conventional Efke film.
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Re: Pyocat-HD/-MC 2 Bath Developing...
I have one relatively elementary question. as this process as described ( and proved by Ken with his photos) has a very strong compression effects - does not it yield very flat negatives if they are not of high contrast scene?
I use Pyrocat-HD as one bath developer and it already can do a lot to save the highlights. Sometimes the negatives can be quite flat and after scanning require substantial boost in contrast (as the raw scan occupies only rather narrow part of the total range) - what may yield in loss of smoothness in the tones and brings up the grain as well.
So - how do you post process your images?