8x10 holders & old wood Conley - slight misfit normal?

I got some 8x10 holders today to use with my 8x10 conley new view (2 newer plastic fidelity/lisco types and 2 wood-framed anscos). They fit quite well but I notice there's a bit of clearance between the sides of the holders (in portrait orientation) or top/bottom (in landscape) and the frame - maybe 1/8" to a bit less than 1/4". Is this normal? The rest of the holder (e.g. the ridge / light trap near the dark slide entrance) seems to slip right into place just fine so the dimensions are just about right - the holder is just a tiny bit more narrow than I think would be ideal.

Should I consider manufacturing some kind of wooden insert to take up the slack, or just shoot some film and see? Or do these normally have a bit of clearance to make insertion easier? The next month or so is going to be spent on restoration (especially bellows) so I can't just go out and test it right away. I'm just wondering what your experiences are with these old cameras and newer holders.

There's going to be some "slop" on most wooden cameras with wooden holders, the main thing is a tight seal between the holder and the camera on the taking side. That is the side of the holder facing the lens when inserted under the ground glass. It is not uncommon for you to be able to "wiggle" the holder a bit.

I guess I'll put a holder in and try to do the bellows flashlight test on it or something. My sense is that it's going to be just fine because it does look like it forms a tight seal between the holder and the frame on the taking side.

I'd just like to figure this out while I'm working on the restoration because if it's necessary I can get the materials and make a little insert to take up the slack.

There's a fair amount of wiggle in the fit of my Eastman whole plate holders to my WP Eastman No. 2, but I haven't found it to be a problem in the field. Possibly if I did more photography under very bright sun I'd find situations in which I'd have to cover the rear standard with the hood before removing the darkslide and making the exposure, but so far it hasn't been an issue.

Cameras the age of the Conley were often not built to a single uniform standard; they were designed with proprietary film holders in mind, so that your modern film holders don't fit precisely is not surprising. I'm not sure after what date the ANSI standards for film holder dimensions were finalized, but for some film formats, they never were. Whole Plate (6.5x8.5), 7x11, and most ULF sizes beyond 11x14 never had an ANSI standard. I don't recall if there was an ANSI standard for 11x14- there may not be, but of all the ULF formats, it is the one most likely to have one.

I also noticed that the film area isn't quite superimposed on the ground glass. I can take this into account while composing so I don't think it's going to be a big deal - the film sits about 1/4" lower (when loading from the top in portrait orientation). The important part - the light trap ridge - seems to fit fine, which is good. Hopefully the film sits in the right location relative to the ground glass. A couple of narrow DOF shots should be good enough to test this in the absence of calipers.

Better too loose than unable to squeeze into the frame :)

There were 2 common 8X10 holders early on. The usual ones that have come down to us but also the "Sterling" style made for the Folmer & Schwing cameras. If memory serves though, a modern holder in a 'sterling' back seats in the light trap far too soon. You'd have a good size gap at the end of the holder if that was the case, but they were just a bit wider like you describe. When it snaps into the light trap does it make a tight seal down at the far end against the stop?

Jim, I haven't checked the exact fit at the bottom (and the camera isn't with me right now) but I do know that it reaches all the way in - protruding well past the boundaries of the ground glass. I'll have to look at the exact fit all the way around once I get home though.

BTW, I received that Bausch & Lomb 13" I bought from you yesterday. Looks like it'll work nicely for my needs - thanks.

Well, it seems to work fine. I exposed all the sheets of ortho lith film that came in the holders today and other than the couple where the darkslide had been partly pulled out there's no evidence of light leaks.

I have an 8X10 Conley tailboard camera. The Kodak/Graflex wood holders I have fit nicely. It's pretty normal to have some play in the fit. Best pactice is to always drape the camera with the dark cloth anyway. This advise goes back to at least 1889, when articles in one of my books warn about light leaks, even in new cameras and holders. Nothing much has changed. :)