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Second Best Darkroom Door
I think those plastic revolving doors are pretty slick, but short of getting one of those expensive and bulky beasts installed, what is the next best "low-volume" darkroom door?
I have been leaning towards a pocket door - any experience and what's the best light sealing for it, especially the base?
Other options? Just a cheap 36" wide swinging door? Simple enough. What about sealing that?
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
I used a plain swinging door that I weatherstripped, which blocks almost all light. I found that painting the edge of the door and the jamb flat black also helped a lot. I put a towel on the floor to keep light from creeping under. You could also hang a curtain in front of the door and sleep well—paisley would be nice....
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
A door that locks on the in(dark)side, painted as above, with a heavy black curtain.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
Check craigslist. I have seen those revolving doors sold for cheap. Some one was even giving one away. I tried to get my friend Harold to pick it up for the darkroom that he pans to build but he let it go.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
Two pieces of duvetyne slightly larger than the hole. One stapled on top on each side of the entry way. That's what i had in my last darkroom. Now i have a regular door sealed w/ black weather strip and duvetyne stapled to the bottom as a flap seal. Totally lightproof and no black paint needed.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
Wish I knew who made it, but when I was in college we had a brand new darkroom in a new building paid for with a grant. The solid darkroom door would close and as it did, a spring loaded light baffle dropped down from inside and cut out the light under the door. And automatically turned on the "darkroom in use" sign. Maybe you can find one of those....
Actually I just use a regular door at home, exposed to the elements and direct sun on the outside. I glued a light baffle around the edge on the inside and except for a little light at the bottom, it is very effective. The light at the bottom (one corner) is stopped by a trashcan.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
My darkroom had a standard interior door, to which I installed standard weatherstripping, including a rubber threshold strip. All of it was available at Home Depot (or Handy Dan or whoever it was at the time--we're talking 25 years ago). Even when the sun was shining in the windows of the room into which the darkroom opened, I never saw a hint of light leakage.
But I sure wish I'd had an air-conditioner vent. Keeping the chemistry and the photographer from overheating proved most challenging in the San Antonio summer. I already had problems with water coming out of the tap at 85 degrees.
The only black paint I applied in that darkroom was on the walls adjacent to the enlarger.
Rick "who was living alone at the time and didn't need the lock on the door" Denney
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
In one past darkroom, I used the pocket door system, painted flat black and it worked fine. I had a separate film room which was inside and at one end of the main darkroom and that also had a pocket door. Since it was several feet form the main darkroom door, there was no need for a light trap at the base.
A later smaller in home darkroom was in a big laundry room with a normal swinging door. Weather stripping on the jambs and a towel against the base of the door solved all problems even though it was just off a room with huge and very bright windows.
Currently, I load film in my walk in closet (swinging door) with a towel at the base and nothing around the jambs, but I only load at night and with all lights off in the bedroom.
Plans for the next darkroom include the revolving door. I've seen quite a few of those go for just $100-$200 bucks in this area on Craigslist, so you might look into that. I'm guessing they came from old print shops or newspapers that no longer have darkrooms.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
I am on my third darkroom and I have access to a free revolving door. I am choosing NOT to use it, mainly b/c I see major problems with moving large items in and out of the darkroom.
A regular door with two light-tight air filters in it (high and low), some weather stripping around the jam and a felt sweep at the bottom will do just fine. I have done this with my previous darkrooms and have had zero problems.
The revolving door is nice, but IMO is a huge pain for a darkroom that is not shared with a group of people.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
I use two swinging doors (swinging in the opposite directions) with a 12 inch space between them to stand in as I open and close one and then the other.
Door stops all around and a black inside stop any light.
A wall sconce outside tells everybody I am in there, although one door does a good enough job and the sound of the door opening tells me to yell a warning before the second door is breached.
Above and across the width of the doors are two double turn tunnels, about 4x2 inches, painted black, for ventilation.
As the wall is an outside wall going to a fruit cellar under the porch arrangement, no space is lost by the double door.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
just build a simple light trap entrance and put a black curtain over the inner or outer gap or both. The curtain can touch the floor. Paint it black. Totally light proof and no messing with getting seals to be exact. Cheap too.
Like an extractor fan light trap only for humans or photographers to fit through.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
I weatherstripped my standard swinging door with Aluminum/Vinyl weatherstripping from Home Dumpo. For the bottom I placed a low and wide aluminum saddle and a door sweep which presses up against the saddle. All inner faces of the door and frame are painted flat black. The weatherstripping and door saddle are sealed with a bead of black silicone to prevent light from leaking around the fixed side. Not one stinkin' photon has gotten past my darkroom door yet.
Weather Stripping:
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardw...atalogId=10053
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
to start with in minty states the revolving door have been outlawed for safty other
states you can use then IF you have an other door!
the last College I worked at had desk to close & the chair was always giting pushed in to the opening STOPING anyone giting out !!
the first College I work at had the spring loaded light baffle dropped down from inside and cut out the light under the door "" they are realy nice BUT the kids would put thing on the floor books & other stuf that would get push into them and mess then up
I like light traps with NO DOORS for schools but for home that takes up a lot of room
never used a pocket door a school that I look at had some automatice opening pocket door from the inside as you got close to it ,steping in the right place it opened for you
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
I see they made a version of the revolving door with a "push-through in an emergency" feature.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
I think you'll get tired of the revolving door after a while. It's not the easiest thing to negotiate - they are also shorter than normal doors so they will fit in a standard doorway. Cheap pocket doors (at least the cheap hardware) is not reliable; they come off-track very easily.
A good old fashioned swinging door with some added overlap from the door to the jamb (and maybe some foam) will work fine. And a towel under the door.
My opinion anyway.......
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
Down under they call the pocket door a cavity slider, very easy to dark proof using
stick on brush or rubber seals, externaly ( light side) at door base and the slider has 2 70x19 cover pieces so at the bottom of these you fit a stick on brush seal on the inside of the darkroom .( the seal just touch the door side and stop any light getting through the track and roller system) at the closing jamb 1/ 19x19 finished timbers nailed to the jamb light has to travel a u shape to allow any light leak i have used this system for quite a few years and use a parret beack lock which fastens to a cut out in the door so far no damaged film etc.:)
Some example shots
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
Down under they call the pocket door a cavity slider, very easy to dark proof using
stick on brush or rubber seals, externaly ( light side) at door base and the slider has 2 70x19 cover pieces so at the bottom of these you fit a stick on brush seal on the inside of the darkroom .( the seal just touch the door side and stop any light getting through the track and roller system) at the closing jamb 1/ 19x19 finished timbers nailed to the jamb light has to travel a u shape to allow any light leak i have used this system for quite a few years and use a parret beack lock which fastens to a cut out in the door so far no damaged film etc.
Some example shots
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
When I built my current darkroom, one of my "splurges" was to install an exterior door rather than an interior one. Besides being insulated (often overlooked) a good exterior door will already come pre-weather-stripped. Add a good sealing threshold and you're done. Cost a bit more, but it saves all the labor and experimentation of doing your own sealing around the door. And, it's insulated if that matters.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
I use the standard swinging door with a dark proof curtain, hung by normal curtain rings and a rod above the door. This particular door fits well in the jamb, and the carpet below is snug against the bottom. I got the curtain, rings and rod from Bed, Bath and Beyond. This works for me.
In Portland I was at Newspace, a public/community darkroom, and they have a small handicap-accessible darkroom on the ground floor. It has a standard swinging door with foam in all the door-to-jamb interfaces. A rubber sweep is installed on the door bottom.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
A door seal that drops down just as the door closes and butts against the threshold.
Home Supply place, I'm pretty sure. They make a door seal that has a drop down center rubber. It rides in a track which forces it down against the threshold on angled inner surfaces. When you open the door this spring loaded strip moves back toward the jam and up into the track. When the door is open the very end stick out about a half inch toward the jamb on which the door is hinged. When you close the door, at the very last minute, the protruding end engages the jamb, pushing the strip with the rubber seal, in and down against the threshold. Pretty simple device really and not rocket science, ie. costly at all.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
I just use a regular door with some modifications. I ripped off the standard thin stops that surround the jamb and replaced them with thicker 3/4" wood stock. I also bolted a piece of angle iron to the floor under the door (positioned so one side of the angle acts as a stop at the bottom of the door). I placed 3/4" foam weather stripping along the surfaces of the stops and angle iron that face the door. It is totally light proof.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
I actually installed one of those revolving darkroom doors at a DEA lab in Dallas! For an exorbitant amount of money and an endless supply of adult beverage I'd be willing to come up and install yours!
Me - I just use a double blackout curtain from wally world (with a small chain run in the bottom hem to ensure a good weighted floor seal) on my bathroom door frame.
-Chris
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
A revolving door best for a darkroom that may be used by more than one person at time, unless you have room for a black painted passageway with at least two right turns, in which case you may not need a door at all.
For a one-person darkroom where space is an issue, like mine, pocket doors work great. When I built my darkroom 25 years ago, I made one from a sheet of 3/4" (18mm) and hung it from a track made for closet doors. I put 2 inch deep U-shaped channels around the 3 non-pocket sides of the door opening and painted everything flat black. The door has worked perfectly for a long time.
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I was introduced to the revolving doors when I took two semesters of photography in college. I thought they were pretty nifty. If I was as wealthy as I am good looking I would have put one on my darkroom.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
I went with a solid exterior door for security reasons since I also store my cameras in my basement darkroom. The downside of storing the cameras there was that it led me to installing a radiant heater to ensure the room remains dry all year round. However, since I live on the north Olympic Peninsula in Washington State, the climate is cool enough that keeping the room (plus chemicals and jugs of water) at 68 degrees all the time is a good--and handy--thing. Thankfully, there are only a handful of days per year hot enough to override the thermostat.
Keith
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
The revolving door I had just pushed up to the exterior door jam. It was made so you could push it out of the way in an emergency. i see them on craigslist for pretty cheap ($100). We just put new foam on it and pushed it into the door jam.
The biggest problem it gets crowded in there with a big tray (make sure you let the print drain). you have to tilt it up to get in and out.
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When the local newspaper went all digi, I obtained a much more modern light proof door system. It resembles the doors on Star Trek, kinda like black windowshades that retract into the sides of the doorway, with a lighttrap between them, with floor mounted switches opening & closing the inner & outer panels in synch as you walk through. They can be set to stay open also.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dsphotog
...doors on Star Trek, kinda like black windowshades that retract into the sides of the doorway, with a lighttrap between them, with floor mounted switches opening & closing the panels as you walk through...
That sounds like the best thing for you Frank! Swoosh clik
Unless you like what sounds like banging on an oil drum as you pound and yank your way through a rotating door.
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Normal interior door, black felt curtain to use when loading or tray developing film. I don't bother with the curtain for normal printing.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
Frank regarding the revolving door.
Call up all the labs in your city, someone will give you one for free , they are great.
Bob
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
I'm not a fan of the revolving door, particularly used ones that work less than optimally. Pocket doors seem ideal, but anyone who has ever had one in their home will likely attest to their un-ergonomic tendencies, and limited useful lifespan (perhaps mitigated with newer construction materials). The easiest/cheapest solution is probably to weatherstrip any old door and hang a heavy curtain in front (darkroom side). Two inexpensive (hollow-core) doors with light trap can be easily constructed in the same space a revolving door requires (as floorpan here). Both can be left open when cleaning, airing out, or transporting equipment into or out of the lab.
But here is something really wacky. I once was privy to a redesigned community college gang darkroom. The old heavy, dark and holey entry curtain was removed in favor of a free passage light maze something like this:
outside
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darkroom
The theory being that light doesn't bend around corners, Einstein be damned!
It was quite light at enlarger stations closer to the door.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
The maze was used in my school and I made one for my first commercial darkroom. Frankly it takes up too much room if you want to move big trays back and forth, but really really nice if you have the space.
I like the big revolving doors that can handle decent size trays, but if I had the space I would make the maze as it really is the best. Never had fogging as the light dosen't bend around the corners as you suggest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ROL
I'm not a fan of the revolving door, particularly used ones that work less than optimally. Pocket doors seem ideal, but anyone who has ever had one in their home will likely attest to their un-ergonomic tendencies, and limited useful lifespan (perhaps mitigated with newer construction materials). The easiest/cheapest solution is probably to weatherstrip any old door and hang a heavy curtain in front (darkroom side). Two inexpensive (hollow-core) doors with light trap can be easily constructed in the same space a revolving door requires (as floorpan
here). Both can be left open when cleaning, airing out, or transporting equipment into or out of the lab.
But here is something really wacky. I once was privy to a redesigned community college gang darkroom. The old heavy, dark and holey entry curtain was removed in favor of a free passage light maze something like this:
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The theory being that light doesn't bend around corners, Einstein be damned!
It was quite light at enlarger stations closer to the door.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bob carnie
Never had fogging as the light dosen't bend around the corners as you suggest.
Of course, just begging the question, at that relatively small scale. Obviously, it worked well enough for their purposes. But I wouldn't recommend it for developing film.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
Why do you need the room to be dark?
I've loaded, unloaded and processed all my film in open daylight, and never had a problem :)
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
Frank,
In my current darkroom I have a normal door, it works fine, foam weather stripping in the door frame to seal it tight. I have to push a little to close it and it is fine. Double squeegee type stripping on the bottom (inside and out).
I do have two hooks to drape a black cloth if for any reason I would ever need to, which I have not.
John Sexton has a slick setup.
The doors slide into the wall, there is a small office in front of the darkroom, so you close the outer doors and then open the darkroom doors. Come and go as you please. His were very wide doors, it is a really nice setup if you have the space and the need for another room in front of the darkroom entrance. I think he even had a light that would light up when the white lights in the darkroom were off and safe lights were on.
For many years, I worked in the newspaper darkroom with a light trap/maze.
That was great too.
Armand, one of my darkroom mentors, had the same darkroom setup as the staff fotogs, but he installed a heavy think black set of drapes that he only used when processing film. The Fotogs had tiny closets just for film and we never souped film in the room with the maze, just prints.
No fotog was allowed to use his room without permission, he had a great setup.
The revolving doors are great too, but it would be better still if you could have a service door also, my old E6 lab was setup like that. 99 percent of traffic went thru the revolving door and only when they really needed, they used the full size doorway.
have a great new year,
looking forward to seeing what you produce in 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Frank Petronio
I think those plastic revolving doors are pretty slick, but short of getting one of those expensive and bulky beasts installed, what is the next best "low-volume" darkroom door?
I have been leaning towards a pocket door - any experience and what's the best light sealing for it, especially the base?
Other options? Just a cheap 36" wide swinging door? Simple enough. What about sealing that?
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
I have used darkrooms with revolving doors and they are great right up until you need two hands to carry something or are trying to move something big. I wouldn't put one in a darkroom unless there was another door too. Light traps are great but as Bob says they take up a lot of space. If you already have a door to the room just lightproof it. My current darkroom, a semi-converted bathroom, has a weatherstripped door with no leaks except on the bottom. If I am printing during the day I just put a towel across the bottom on the outside and when I shut the door it is light tight.
On a related point, I made a safelight out of the window by cutting a 8 inch hole in the cardboard over the window and placing photolith over it. It is a lot nicer printing during the day if you can look outside.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
[QUOTE=ROL;825225]I'm not a fan of the revolving door, particularly used ones that work less than optimally. Pocket doors seem ideal, but anyone who has ever had one in their home will likely attest to their un-ergonomic tendencies, and limited useful lifespan (perhaps mitigated with newer construction materials).
May be the pocket doors fitted in USA are different to the ones I have fitted on my own home 25 yrs ago, the simple leveling principles and the fact of being able to
have your floorspace taken up by swing doors is a no brainer:confused:
a little lubrication to the tracks every year makes for a well operated barrier for light
the very reason i placed some example picture of the simplicity of lightproofing these units.
(:)un-ergonmic tendencies) please elaberate as i will be able to teach my carpentry students how this is so
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
Quote:
What's a "darkroom" ? by Ed Kelsey
that where life as a TRUE Photographer begans!!
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
http://i246.photo bucket.com/albums/...l/cc478d14.jpg
I add a light trap to a standard door.
It consists of a 1/2"x1" molding all the way around the door , on the frame side spaced 1/8 from the frame plus a 3/4" 1/4 round on the frame spaced 1/8" from the molding on the door. This is also done on the door sill.
Paint the inside flat black and it is light tight. The cost is about $25.00
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...l/0cb84bc7.jpg
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
Frank, if you decide to go the pocket door route, check out this hardware. http://johnsonhardware.com/111pd.htm. Very high quality and will last for years.
Roger
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
[QUOTE=Bazz8;825342]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ROL
I'm not a fan of the revolving door, particularly used ones that work less than optimally. Pocket doors seem ideal, but anyone who has ever had one in their home will likely attest to their un-ergonomic tendencies, and limited useful lifespan (perhaps mitigated with newer construction materials).
May be the pocket doors fitted in USA are different to the ones I have fitted on my own home 25 yrs ago, the simple leveling principles and the fact of being able to
have your floorspace taken up by swing doors is a no brainer:confused:
a little lubrication to the tracks every year makes for a well operated barrier for light
the very reason i placed some example picture of the simplicity of lightproofing these units.
(:)un-ergonmic tendencies) please elaberate as i will be able to teach my carpentry students how this is so
I think pocket doors are super cool, but couldn't use one for my darkroom. The wall adjacent to the door where the door would hide is filled with pipes and wires for my darkroom and bathroom. Normal doors, you don't have to think about what's in the wall for a door's width to the side.
My darkroom is a room off the bathroom, so at night, I can actually darken the bathroom and open the door and sneak out while processing film in trays.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
I don't like pocket doors because the bottom of the door is difficult to lightproof.
My favorite is a standard (i.e. inexpensive) flush panel steel exterior door. It comes with a magnetic weather seal and an aluminum threshold on the floor. The seal is good and it is easy to nail up some garage door flange material around the three sides.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
[QUOTE=jp498;825794]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bazz8
I think pocket doors are super cool, but couldn't use one for my darkroom. The wall adjacent to the door where the door would hide is filled with pipes and wires for my darkroom and bathroom. Normal doors, you don't have to think about what's in the wall for a door's width to the side.
My darkroom is a room off the bathroom, so at night, I can actually darken the bathroom and open the door and sneak out while processing film in trays.
thats valid for sure the space saving factor is another consideration eg. .8x.8x2 = 1.28 sq mtr floor space .
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
[QUOTE=jp498;825794]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bazz8
I think pocket doors are super cool, but couldn't use one for my darkroom. The wall adjacent to the door where the door would hide is filled with pipes and wires for my darkroom and bathroom. Normal doors, you don't have to think about what's in the wall for a door's width to the side.
It's easy to add a pocket to the surface of an existing wall...and light trapping the bottom of the door is no problem if you don't mind stepping over a 2 inch high threshold channel. That's what my darkroom door is like, and it's worked great for 25 years.
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Another entry in the cheap-o hollow-core door with added weather stripping here. It was already there, metal and rubber weather stripping and painting the edges black did it. Carpet scrap inside and black plastic sweep outside to close the bottom.
Windows got blacked out with foil-faced foam insulation board caulked in with black latex caulk.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
[QUOTE=Gordy;826087]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jp498
It's easy to add a pocket to the surface of an existing wall...and light trapping the bottom of the door is no problem if you don't mind stepping over a 2 inch high threshold channel. That's what my darkroom door is like, and it's worked great for 25 years.
I agree the post was from Originally Posted by ROL: View Post
I'm not a fan of the revolving door, particularly used ones that work less than optimally. Pocket doors seem ideal, but anyone who has ever had one in their home will likely attest to their un-ergonomic tendencies, and limited useful lifespan (perhaps mitigated with newer construction materials).
I have posted some shots of how simple light proofing a cavity slider is.
the post showing a simple lighttrap using a piece of quad against the edge of a swing door works well too.:)
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
At the community college I went to back in 1984 they had two darkrooms, one had an Arkay door the rotating type...not so good for large trays in and out of the dry area. You can get them bigger, but I worked for Omega when Arkay was part of the lines we carried. They were actually made not by us or Arkay but rather Eseco. They had to be drop shipped and there were always issues like shipping damages or folks that got the wrong item. Never the less the main darkroom had a two door system, thats where I went with my my previous darkroom. Also I attended a second com college for a special advance class doing zone system work they merely had a large maze like opening with no doors or curtains. I really like the pocket door idea. I am still finishing Darkroom 3 in my not so new house house of the last 6 years. Damn you guys! now I am going to have to figure out how to cut a notch in 6 inch concrete block ;)
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
I partitioned off one part of a large room to make my darkroom, and built a pocket door for access. A pocket door takes up almost 0 floor space, unlike swinging or rotating doors, and so can be made larger without compromise. Mine is just smaller than 4' wide to allow for a light trap. Originally I made a half-circle, double curtain enclosure on the outside of the door so I could go in and out of the darkroom without letting light in, but in practice I found it unnecessary, and removed it. I'm not sure why some seem to think light-proofing a pocket door is difficult, and a 2" threshold is massive overkill, in my opinion. Light can't bend around any size corner, so why make a stumbling block? My threshold is a 1/4" groove in a 1/2" board, tapered on both sides.
I like my pocket door, but previously had regular swinging doors with a sheet of black plastic over the inside on a hinged rod, and that was just as effective and almost as convenient.
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Re: Second Best Darkroom Door
Not sure if you have the room for this, but this reminds me of something I saw years ago. I took a workshop under Howard Bond and his darkroom in the basement had no door at all. As I recall, it was a concave opening wrapped around a wall end with flat black paint on the surface. I thought it quite ingenious and quite effective. Certainly made carrying things in and out easier.