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Will I get beaten up if ...
... I post images on the forum shot using a Linhof Techno and a digital back?
I'm having an identity crisis as the techno largely replaces my Toyo 45AII. I'll be shooting 6x7 roll film, plus digital. Am I considered large format still? as the techno certainly similar features to the Toyo.
Thanks
Paul
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Oh, let's get all nerdy! Is it a 4x5 back, or 6x7cm or what? ;)
Mike
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
If it's not 4x5, it's not large format. Others will argue with me on this, but they're wrong.
Which is not to say you can't post the images. Try "safe haven for tiny formats" in the lounge.
Just don't try to post them at APUG. (winking smiley)
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
E. von Hoegh
If it's not 4x5, it's not large format.
Which is not to say you can't post the images. Try "safe haven for small formats" in the lounge.
I agree.
- Leigh
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Not beat up, but you'll probably get tongue-lashed and publicly branded as "one of the masses". Not like many of the "elitists" here(not myself, I shoot both film and digi for work and pleasure) ;).
Just kidding. Its great that you'd like to share your photographs with us, however, the smallest format generally accepted here is 4x5 sheet film, so I have a feeling that digitally-captured photographs, or those made on rollfilm(despite being on a "view camera") will be considered "uncouth". There are a great deal of other forums where that would be great, feel free to link to it.
But now that the "cats out of the bag" so to speak, you might want to make sure to label which is which, film capture or digital.
Here we're all about film, and many of us relish a bit of solidarity despite the onslaught of digital mania and the invasive nature it can have on our lives :D
-Dan
p.s. how you liking the Techno? I got to fondle one at Samy's here in LA, but haven't used one. Seemed great for digital, but for film(even rollfilm) it seemed a bit overkill IMO. But very nicely thought out overkill :)
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Actually he may get dragged out into the noon sun, drowned in a vat of warm exhausted D76, and buried at a crossroads at midnight with a tripod leg through his heart.
But no, no one will actually beat him up.
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
"What is the Large Format Photography Forum all about?
The purpose of the forum is to provide a place for discussion of topics of particular interest to large format photographers. We especially encourage questions which will help build a repository of knowledge about the tools and techniques of large format photography, as opposed to "shopping" questions. For the purposes of this forum, we define "large format" as being essentially 4x5, or larger, sheet film. We do, however, allow what would otherwise be considered "medium format" sizes, IF exposed in a view camera (e.g. with a roll-film adapter), technical, or old-style press camera (e.g. the various Graphic cameras)."
I believe digital "medium format sizes", if exposed on a view camera, have been allowed here in the main forums.
So no need for an identity crisis, getting beat up, or even a tongue lashing for that matter.
Sandy King
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
E. von Hoegh
Actually he may get dragged out into the noon sun, drowned in a vat of warm exhausted D76, and buried at a crossroads at midnight with a tripod leg through his heart.
But no, no one will actually beat him up.
Unless he uses a 4x5 sensor, and then everything's juuuuust fine. Or how about a scanning back using mirrors and an "electric eye" tube, with the output going to either punch cards or paper tape.
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brian C. Miller
Unless he uses a 4x5 sensor, and then everything's juuuuust fine. Or how about a scanning back using mirrors and an "electric eye" tube, with the output going to either punch cards or paper tape.
Yep! That sounds perfect! I have a few of those tubes, also a couple photomultiplier tubes.
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
So... if I shoot 4x5in sheet film and crop to 6x12cm that's LF. But if I shoot 6x12cm roll film with a 4x5 camera that's not LF. Hmm... yeah, I guess that's technically correct.
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Old-N-Feeble
So... if I shoot 4x5in sheet film and crop to 6x12cm that's LF. But if I shoot 6x12cm roll film with a 4x5 camera that's not LF. Hmm... yeah, I guess that's technically correct.
Is the film you are exposing in the camera 20 square inches or larger? If yes, you are using LF. If no, you are using medium format. QED.
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
E. von Hoegh
Is the film you are exposing in the camera 20 square inches or larger? If yes, you are using LF. If no, you are using medium format. QED.
So I can shoot 4x5in then crop to 6x7cm and that's LF? :)
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Old-N-Feeble
So I can shoot 4x5in then crop to 6x7cm and that's LF? :)
It WAS LF. Now it's a waste of LF. :D
Personally, I think LF means sheet film.
- Leigh
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Old-N-Feeble
But if I shoot 6x12cm roll film with a 4x5 camera that's not LF.
Just don't use a roll film back ...
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Leigh
It WAS LF. Now it's a waste of LF. :D
- Leigh
LOL!! Yeah, okay. :D I'm just trying to wrap my head around this concept. So please... please... all us smaller folk want to know. Is 4x5in film, cropped smaller, still LF? If so, then is 4x5in film cropped to 6x7cm still LF? If it's not then when does 4x5in cease to be LF? Cropped 10 precent? Twenty percent? More? :)
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Large format means a negative size of 20 square inches or larger. Period. 4x5 cropped to 19.5 square inches is not LF.
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Ahh... okay. Then 4x5in isn't large format because the film holder crops it in-camera to 17.8125 square inches. :D
BTW, I'm mostly playing here... just being facetious... mostly. ;)
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brian C. Miller
... with the output going to either punch cards or paper tape.
The problem with paper tape is that it's impregnated with oil, which can escape and foul the optics.
My vote goes to punched cards. Be sure to punch the sequence number columns so the sorter will work right.
- Leigh
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Old-N-Feeble
Ahh... okay. Then 4x5in isn't large format because the film holder crops it in-camera to 17.8125 square inches. :D
But the film is still 4x5 inches, right? That's what matters.
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
E. von Hoegh
But the film is still 4x5 inches, right? That's what matters.
Provided not even 10 percent of the image is cropped? If I shoot 8x10 and crop to 17.8125 square inches (full 4x5in image area) that's still LF but if I crop it to 16 square inches it's not?
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Old-N-Feeble
Provided not even 10 percent of the image is cropped? If I shoot 8x10 and crop to 17.8125 square inches (full 4x5in image area) that's still LF but if I crop it to 16 square inches it's not?
If you crop 8x10 at current prices, you're insane. But as long as you don't cut the sheet down, it's LF. Insane, but LF.
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
It's the size of the film that matters, not the size of the image.
Following your argument, a 4x5 would cease to be LF if you used it with a lens
having an image circle too small to cover the film, resulting in vignetting.
A corollary to that:
If you use an adequate lens, but add enough rise that you get vignetting, are you still shooting LF?
- Leigh
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
E. von Hoegh
If you crop 8x10 at current prices, you're insane. But as long as you don't cut the sheet down, it's LF. Insane, but LF.
I never claimed to be sane. My inquires are hypothetical anyway since my largest camera is 5x7. ;)
It was stated earlier that 4x5in film cropped to 6x12cm is not LF and this is still in question. If it's not then the other query was/is: At what point does 4x5in cease to be LF... cropped 10 percent, 20 percent, more?
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Old-N-Feeble
I never claimed to be sane. My inquires are hypothetical anyway since my largest camera is 5x7. ;)
It was stated earlier that 4x5in film cropped to 6x12cm is not LF and this still in question. If it's not then the other query was/is: At what point does 4x5in cease to be LF... cropped 10 percent, 20 percent, more?
I've already given you my opinion. I'm German, Swiss, Irish, and Scots. You don't really expect me to change the opinion, do you?
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Old-N-Feeble
It was stated earlier that 4x5in film cropped to 6x12cm is not LF and this is still in question.
Well, OnF...
Back in post #10 you acknowledged the difference between 6x12 done as sheet film v. 6x12 done as roll film.
I believe you answered your own question.
- Leigh
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Gad, this again.
I believe the owner of this forum has the position that it is the camera that matters -- not the film size. Roll film backs on a view camera are perfectly acceptable. 6x17 back on a view camera is fine -- 6x17 on a non-view camera is not fine. Digital back on a view camera should be fine. Press cameras have been grandfathered in and are fine. Still lots of gray areas, but that basically is it.
Vaughn
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
EvonH / Leigh...
Now I understand. I can crop 4x5in or larger sheet film as much as I like and it will always be LF but roll film, regardless of size is never LF... at least not with the size of RF that's readily available today.
ETA: There was a member here (Jim Galli?) who had a custom 5x14 camera made (by Chamonix?) who cut 5 inch roll film to shoot in said camera? Is that LF?
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
E. von Hoegh
If you crop 8x10 at current prices, you're insane. But as long as you don't cut the sheet down, it's LF. Insane, but LF.
I do two 4x10 images on a single sheet of 8x10 -- am I doublely insane? Or twice as smart?:rolleyes:
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wentbackward
... I post images on the forum shot using a Linhof Techno and a digital back?
I'm having an identity crisis as the techno largely replaces my Toyo 45AII. I'll be shooting 6x7 roll film, plus digital. Am I considered large format still? as the techno certainly similar features to the Toyo.
Thanks
Paul
If the question is whether you are allowed to post in the core LF forums? The answer is yes as Sandy quoted the guidelines above. Will you get crap for it from the diehards? Obviously but that's not the same question.
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vaughn
I do two 4x10 images on a single sheet of 8x10 -- am I doublely insane? Or twice as smart?:rolleyes:
Neither. You're obviously making panoramas. Sheesh. I've done the same, and it's obvious I'm sane.
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wentbackward
... I post images on the forum shot using a Linhof Techno and a digital back?
No. Just make sure you add some film borders to them!
Steve.
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Old-N-Feeble
EvonH / Leigh...
Now I understand. I can crop 4x5in or larger sheet film as much as I like and it will always be LF but roll film, regardless of size is never LF... at least not with the size of RF that's readily available today.
ETA: There was a member here (Jim Galli?) who had a custom 5x14 camera made (by Chamonix?) who cut 5 inch roll film to shoot in said camera? Is that LF?
What's 5 times 14??? It ceased being rollfilm when he cut it! (bangs head on desk)
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vaughn
Gad, this again.
I believe the owner of this forum has the position that it is the camera that matters -- not the film size. Roll film backs on a view camera are perfectly acceptable. 6x17 back on a view camera is fine -- 6x17 on a non-view camera is not fine. Digital back on a view camera should be fine. Press cameras have been grandfathered in and are fine. Still lots of gray areas, but that basically is it.
Vaughn
Yes, but that's for posting images, isn't it? I believe he sticks to the 20 square inch rule.
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
E. von Hoegh
<snip>and it's obvious I'm sane.
There's never, ever, anything "obvious". ;) :D
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
E. von Hoegh
What's 5 times 14??? It ceased being rollfilm when he cut it! (bangs head on desk)
LOL!! Okay EvonH. Me thinks I need to quit playing with you. :D
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
No "twenty inch rule" that I know of. View cameras such as a Gavin 6x7 are acceptable, I believe. I have posed 6cm x 7cm images. All images are "posted" -- not quite sure what you mean by that.
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vaughn
No "twenty inch rule" that I know of. View cameras such as a Gavin 6x7 are acceptable, I believe. I have posed 6cm x 7cm images. All images are "posted" -- not quite sure what you mean by that.
I mean the definition of "Large Format" on the homepage.
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
E. von Hoegh
I mean the definition of "Large Format" on the homepage.
I could not find the definition on the homepage.
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
E. von Hoegh
... and it's obvious I'm sane.
Obvious? To whom??? :D
- Leigh
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Old-N-Feeble
LOL!! Yeah, okay. :D I'm just trying to wrap my head around this concept. So please... please... all us smaller folk want to know. Is 4x5in film, cropped smaller, still LF? If so, then is 4x5in film cropped to 6x7cm still LF? If it's not then when does 4x5in cease to be LF? Cropped 10 precent? Twenty percent? More? :)
What kind of cropping are you talking about? If you mean crops in making a print that has nothing to do with anything. If I expose 4x5 film in a 4x5 camera I've made a large format photograph. It's the size of the film that's relevant, not the size of the final print.
If you're talking about a film holder that crops the 4x5 film in camera, e.g. so that two images can be made on one sheet, that's irrelevant too it seems to me. You put 4x5 film in a 4x5 camera. You made a LF photograph. You put 6x7 film in a 4x5 camera and you've made a medium format photograph. I don't know what's "allowed" and what isn't and I doubt that everyone agrees but I don't see how a 6x7 negative can be considered "large format" regardless of what kind of camera was used to make it.
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vaughn
I could not find the definition on the homepage.
It's in the FAQ.
Quoting: "For the purposes of this forum, we define "large format" as being essentially 4x5, or larger, sheet film."
I suggest reading the entire FAQ.
- Leigh
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
It all depends. If you take 6x7 film and then put it in a film stretcher I think it still counts
as large format. Remember to soak the negative in mayonnaise and water overnight so the emulsion doesn't crack when you stretch it.
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Well... I guess I'll never understand the definition of LF. While I'll agree that 120 roll film is not large format, I believe that shooting 4x5 sheet just so we can boldly state we shot an image in LF is silly. I'll (boldly) add that, in today's world of DSLR's and super-duper-high-quality films films that 6x12cm might be the new "smallest" LF. Why make such a fuss over 6x12cm cropped from 4x5 (a waste of LF as one stated) vs. shooting 6x12cm on roll film. After all, the latter produces better quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brian Ellis
What kind of cropping are you talking about? If you mean crops in making a print that has nothing to do with anything. If I expose 4x5 film in a 4x5 camera I've made a large format photograph. It's the size of the film that's relevant, not the size of the final print.
If you're talking about a film holder that crops the 4x5 film in camera, e.g. so that two images can be made on one sheet, that's irrelevant too it seems to me. You put 4x5 film in a 4x5 camera. You made a LF photograph. You put 6x7 film in a 4x5 camera and you've made a medium format photograph. I don't know what's "allowed" and what isn't and I doubt that everyone agrees but I don't see how a 6x7 negative can be considered "large format" regardless of what kind of camera was used to make it.
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Leigh
It's in the FAQ.
Quoting: "For the purposes of this forum, we define "large format" as being essentially 4x5, or larger, sheet film."
I suggest reading the entire FAQ.
- Leigh
The answer to this on going stupidity has been provided a while back "Safe haven for tiny formats". Why does this keep coming up? There must be at least a hundred digital fora but still people want to take their pixelography graphic art and pollute a large format film only section. You won't get beaten up but you won't be respected in the morning.
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Steve Nicholls
There must be at least a hundred digital fora but still people want to take their pixelography graphic art and pollute a large format film only section.
I agree.
Anybody interested in serious pixeolography should consider the forum at getdpi.com.
They have some very talented members, and great work.
- Leigh
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Yeah, yeah... I can shoot six 6x12cm roll film images for the overall cost of a single sheet of 4x5 cropped to 6x12cm. FWIW, I'll also be shooting 5x7 and stitching to 5x10 or 5x12 when I want better quality and wider format than 4x5.
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Old-N-Feeble
I can shoot six 6x12cm roll film images for the overall cost of a single sheet of 4x5 cropped to 6x12cm.
Then why don't you go shoot some pictures instead of abusing that poor computer keyboard.
If money is an issue, you could save even more by not shooting at all.
- Leigh
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Leigh
The problem with paper tape is that it's impregnated with oil, which can escape and foul the optics.
My vote goes to punched cards. Be sure to punch the sequence number columns so the sorter will work right.
- Leigh
You had a sorter? A bit high tech, I had to sort them by hand, or maybe was just my shift leader having fun with me, better find out!
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Leigh
Then why don't you go shoot some pictures instead of abusing that poor computer keyboard.
If money is an issue, you could save even more by not shooting at all.
- Leigh
Leigh... you kill me. You really do. Yeah... I need to get off my byootox and shoot some film. :D
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Re: Will I get beaten up if ...
You guys are too uptight. Let's just beat up a couple of small-format and-or digitoraphers and make examples of them. It might be fun, who knows?