Re: Feedback on moderation
I no longer post because a number times I submitted completely professional posts as I had done acceptably for 10 + years I got deleted for violating "rules". For a specific example I added some experience comments to encourage a potential buyer with a for sale post and I got deleted because I was not compliant. My comments were not personal nor disparaging in any way shape or form as has my tenure with this venue since the 1990's. Really? I am a professional consultant to business executives so advice is second nature to me and I normally give it freely. Are we that friggin anal retentive and/or structured?
Reality check. I am not going to really digest the forum rules because honestly because i have more important things to do with my time.
Re: Feedback on moderation
There is one forum where we, for quite a few years now under a range of moderators preceding both me and Oren, have asked people not to comment, and that's the for-sale forum. The reason is simple: it doesn't go into the archives, and its therefore ephemeral and out of reach of outside searchers. And it often interferes with transactions, and sometimes it's wrong (not accusing your posts of that, of course).
Solid information should go in the regular forum so that it adds to the knowledge base (and some do search the forum, particularly for specifics about hardware), or if it's intended to specifically help the seller, directly to the seller via PM. That rule has been debated endlessly, just like all rules.
Are those the sorts of posts that add to the dynamism of the art and the free exchange of ideas? I would have thought posts about that would've been more about vision and technique and less about the stuff people are selling.
Rick "who'd like to see people get out of the FS forum and participate in the regular discussion threads" Denney
Re: Feedback on moderation
Once again this points to preconceived value judgement assuming that the desire to either sell redundant and/or unused LF equipment or acquire these components are unimportant and/or trivial components of the LF experience. We should reminds ourselves that a portion of the members making LF images are over their skis financial in this endeavor and are occasionally in the camp of wanting to access like minded LF photographers to stay in the black figuratively speaking. The other fact remains that if the For Sale component is active it is a representative component of the forum experience so however we would like participation to occur in an optimal best case scenario, the fact remains that people use any and ALL parts of the forum as a receptacle for knowledge and usefulness at their beckoned discretion. Occasionally it would be advisable to state and remind ourselves of the basis of design for this forum and distance ourselves judgmentally from predisposition and judgement on how this forum is utilized. When acceptance of the fact that the objective is to wave the welcome flag and be a receptacle of reasonable and respectful dialog dimensionally (i.e.. without personal bias), the level of intellectual exchange advancing large format photography will grow and advance the medium. The fact remains that there are progressively few places where this dialog is possible and it would be a shame to thwart this objective by an willingness to letting go of the steering wheel as a dominant condition. This goes back to the 98% / 2% business axiom. 98% of problems are inherently associated with 2% of "issues". Why let 2% dictate the process? I have sat in many a corporate boardroom over the years over identical issues and whether we want to admit it or not, the ultimate driver in this issue is pragmatic objectivity. Everyone can take the high road and an adverse trajectory continues. One person takes the low road and casts a new model of possibility and the trajectory remarkably changes. It is called leadership and it is a rare commodity. It is where the term "possibility" emanates.
Re: Feedback on moderation
I think the moderators have shown great leadership qualities -- high road or low road! Clearly showing that they are operating within an optimal best case scenario methodology. The maximum best case scenario would be no moderation -- and things running at max. do not last long.
I have had my hand gently slapped in the For Sale section...I had forgotten and was reminded nicely.
I guess the problem with adding to posts in the For Sale section is that 98%/2% axiom. Two percent useful information, 98% not so useful. Why stress about the 2% when that info is probably already in system...which should be perused before shopping. I see the For Sale section as an added value to the forum, but certainly not the driving force.
Re: Feedback on moderation
The passion that occasionally erupts here may be entertaining, but the wealth of information posted is practical. There are countless sites that provide passion, especially in an election year. Fortunately, we avoid much of that disruptive drama here. I've acquired more useful and interesting information from this site in a few years than from books in many decades before. That is a unique service. Moderators, keep up the good work.
Re: Feedback on moderation
Sometimes questions need to be asked about a Sale or WTB and it would be more useful if these were in the relevant thread, as it stands the current situation makes it long winded as we need to PM the OP and get a reply and hope for the sake of others they add that info to the thread.
It can be as simple as knowing what country the OP is in, what currency etc, or maybe clarification about the item in the post. It just seems that the moderators have made far more work for themselves with the recent changes and are we really benefiting from the changes.
Ian
Re: Feedback on moderation
Ian, it's not more trouble for actual potential buyers--writing a PM is no more trouble than writing a post. It is more trouble for sellers because they may get the same request from several people, but that will encourage them to add the information to their sale thread.
But many of the items you mentioned we have requested that sellers include in any case.
And most of the posts in FS threads were not from actual potential buyers, but rather from the gallery, and that was one of the original reasons why the members of the forum requested that we prohibit commentary in the for-sale threads in the first place. (Then there's the effect of empty, even when well-meaning, commentary, which becomes part of the intentional or unintentional bumping strategy. As the sales forum has grown, so had the temptation to bump repeatedly, as some aggressive sellers tried to out-bump each other. Hopefully, the new rules have brought that to a minimum.)
Even during my sabbatical, I saw every single reported post from the for-sale section (moderators are all notified by email when a post is reported), and I do believe that complaints have declined, though I have not compiled any statistics to prove it. They certainly have not increased. But that is something we will continue to monitor, as always.
Rick "we are approaching this empirically, not theoretically" Denney
Re: Feedback on moderation
It's swings and roundabouts Rick, it's good to see the constant bumping going, but then I got told off for bumping after a year :D
I've always thought it's important tomresearch prices as a buyern or a seller and it was very rare I'd bump a sale, in fact it always surprised me that items I posted here and and/or on APUG would suddenly sell months or over a year fater posting. I think people forget it's a smallish market, more desirable items fairly priced sell quicker than less common or more brand/model specific or the more exotic. It's the same with wanted adverts, sometimes it's take a year before I've found parts I've needed, less for lenses etc.
The reality is it's more important to have adverts whether sales or wanted that are accurate and contain enough detail. I've bought a lot from this Forum and also APUg and only one needed intervention the rest were great amicable transactions everyone getting what they wanted/needed.
Ian
Re: Feedback on moderation
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rdenney
Ian, it's not more trouble for actual potential buyers--writing a PM is no more trouble than writing a post. It is more trouble for sellers because they may get the same request from several people, but that will encourage them to add the information to their sale thread.
But many of the items you mentioned we have requested that sellers include in any case.
And most of the posts in FS threads were not from actual potential buyers, but rather from the gallery, and that was one of the original reasons why the members of the forum requested that we prohibit commentary in the for-sale threads in the first place. (Then there's the effect of empty, even when well-meaning, commentary, which becomes part of the intentional or unintentional bumping strategy. As the sales forum has grown, so had the temptation to bump repeatedly, as some aggressive sellers tried to out-bump each other. Hopefully, the new rules have brought that to a minimum.)
Even during my sabbatical, I saw every single reported post from the for-sale section (moderators are all notified by email when a post is reported), and I do believe that complaints have declined, though I have not compiled any statistics to prove it. They certainly have not increased. But that is something we will continue to monitor, as always.
Rick "we are approaching this empirically, not theoretically" Denney
I would be curious to know if the amount of for sale post has gone down in conjunction with the reported complaints about them. With the the new limitations I do know some people have stopped posting in the FS threads here so I wonder if that is the real reason? BUT that's why I asked, that's all supposition and bias on my part to think that of course.