nightmares at the airport

[chris jordan]

Hey guys. Just got back from a shooting trip down in LA. At the Seattle end they did what they always do-- swab my boxes of sheet film and let me on through. On my return, however, I had a box of exposed film that the security people at LAX insisted on opening. They that said because the factory seal was broken, I could have a plastic knife in the box, and they couldn't let me through without either x-raying the box or opening it for visual inspection. Only after summoning the supervisor of the supervisor and getting into quite a shouting match, did they finally let me pass with my film.

I then asked the highest-up person what I should do in the future if I had to carry a box of exposed undeveloped film with me, and she said the best thing to do is bring a changing bag-- then they could open the box and feel the film manually in the dark and check if there's anything sharp in there. That made good sense as a last-resort measure, especially for airports that don't have the swabbing system.

Then, after our 20 minutes of intense argument about the possible contents of a thin flat cardboard film box that weighs about an ounce, just for kicks I showed them what they had let me pass through with inside my carry-on bag: My camera's monorail, which is a heavy tube of thick metal just a few inches shorter than a baseball bat. Seems to me it would be pretty easy to fashion a samurai sword that would fit inside that thing, but they were unphased.

In any event, carrying a changing bag seems to be a good safety measure for exposed sheet film-- I'll have one with me on my next trip.

cheers,

~cj

www.chrisjordan.com

[David R Munson]

*cough* John Ashcroft *cough*

This stuff is really getting out of hand.

[Frank Petronio]

I know I'll get flamed for saying this, but, just but, wouldn't pretending to be a professional photographer be a great ruse for a terrorist?

Granted, I don't have any great respect for the unfirable, lifetime TSA employees; and having travelled with a ton of film in past projects I am sympathetic to the photographer. But if you look at the situation from a public safety point of view - where we have actually had people like Richard Reid place explosives in his shoe - why shouldn't we be checking shoes, lead lined bags, and mysterious, unopenable boxes? For that matter, young to middle-aged men with dark complexions SHOULD be given extra scrutiny (that would include myself.)

For that matter, if I were planning to blow up a bridge or a dam, I probably would want photos to study the structure from. So what is illogical about not allowing photos of major bridges or dams?

I'll stand back now - should be interesting to watch the giant leaps of logic...

[tim atherton]

they just tested airport security across the US, running dummy weapons through and all sorts of the usual stuff. They basically found the standard of safety and security was almost exactly the same as it was 15 (it may have been 17) years ago - which is basically very poor.

At present it's all pretty much an expensive waste of time and effort

[Ben Hopson]

I truly dread dealing with airport security. I understand the need for it, but it does cause a bit of stress trying to get film from one location to another.

Lately I have been having my film shipped to my destination in advance and at the end of the trip I ship it home. So far there has not been any problem with FedX or UPS. No fogged or damaged film. A little added expense but well worth it to me.

I don't think I would like a security person handeling my film even in a changing tent, but if that is the only alternative to opening the box or x raying I guess that is the lesser evil.

Having said my bit about shipping film to the destination, I hope I have some waiting for me in Lone Pine as I fly out of SeaTac Friday morning for a week of fun in the sun.

[Rich Long]

Isn't the scanner for carry-ons relatively safe for normal-speed film? Why not just pass it through in your carry-on?

[Andre Noble]

Chris, I feel your pain.

But I would much rather just pass it through the carry on x-ray than to let someone go poking their finger prints all over my exposed film in side a chnaging bag. 20 minutes of arguing means their pretty serious about trying to do their job too.

Next time, if you get resistance, just pass it through the machine, as you would have to do in Europe anyway.

Lose the battle, win the war.

[Henry Ambrose]

Glad you stood your ground but I only have one word for you...

Fedex.

[QT Luong]

I've heard several times this "I have to open it, or X-ray it". It somewhat makes sense to me, and when this happens, I just let them X-ray it. Once, I tried to argue with a supervisor, and I said "I'll let you open it in the dark". We went around the airport but couldn't find a room dark enough. I gave up in order not to miss my flight. Changing bag would have worked. However, if you go this route, make sure they don't remove their arms while the box is still open, something I read on this forum happened. One time, I was told "if you are flagged for special screening, we would have to open everything"... this didn't happen, but now that's a nightmare.

[wfwhitaker]

What Henry said.....

FedEx the stuff.

[Ron Bose]

Does Kodak sell seals to make an opened box look unopened ?

I now that an evil perp could dress like a photographer with a box of sheet film with something nasty hidden inside, but it's not likely is it ?

These people try to look as ordinary as they can, so they aren't noticed. For pete's sake a pen (x-rayed or not) can be used to disable someone.

I'm beginning to hate what humans are doing to this world. Luckily, I see the good things that nature does through the ground-glass of my camera.

I'm glad you got it through Chris ...

[Graeme Hird]

Sorry to hear of your troubles. Travelling in Australia is just as bad.

They've got a funny logic here: the security staff will stop you carrying on all the usual stuff, but if you sit in "business" class (Aussie for first class) they'll serve your meal with stainless steel cutlery and a small glass bottle of wine. Apparently, terrorists are too poor to fly business class (which incidently is why we lock up all refugees who arrive by leaky boat - everyone knows that's the prefered travel mode for terrorists ..... ).

I was not allowed to take my spare AA alkaline batteries loose in my camera bag, but they were fine if they were inside the reusable cardboard box they came in. The security staff taped four of them together with electrical tape and put them back in my bag. Apparently, a single loose battery feels like the barrel of a gun if held to the back of the neck of airline staff, and I'm too stupid to be able to open the battery box or unwrap the taped batteries in flight ....

Why do they go so far over the top? No terrorist is going to use the same mode of attack in the next ten or twenty years. The authorities are onto it - why make it hard for themselves? They've done the planes, trains and automobiles - the next logical delivery mode is ships. I know I'll get a visit from ASIO for saying so, but my guess is the next major attack will come in the form of a VERY large explosive device in a sea container or ocean-going boat, detonated in a sensitive port within a city. I hope they are looking for that with as much intensity as they subject ordinary travellers to.

Rant over .....

Carry on.

[Henry Friedman]

I think you should change the title of your post. Perhaps 'Inconvenience at the airport' would be more appropriate. A "nightmare" is when you or a loved one gets on a airliner that is blown up or crashed into a building.

Now, I have no great love for airport security or any illusions about its effectiveness. I, too, have felt the need for special arrangements for shipping of important film. But until we adopt a lifestyle and foreign policy that makes us less abhorrent to others, you might just as well get used to it.

[Jim Rice]

From news of the weird:

"An American Airlines flight was cancelled after the local Transportation Security Administration offical ordered a bomb search (which proved fruitless) based only on information he said came from a psychic. (Fort Myers, FL)"

[Don Bryant]

The problem with the airport security system is that we (they) are looking for weapons not terrorists.

[Jim Rhoades]

I note with much amusement the blaming of John Ashcroft et al. The truth is that airport security, police etc. are restricted from doing their jobs due to the boogieman called profiling. If security were to carefully screen and check dark skinned men 18 to 30 years old with Arab sounding names they would be accused of profiling. In New Jersey two or more such charges and you can lose your job or go to jail. This has been brought to you by liberal politicians and the concept of political correctness, something that hardly fits the John Ashcroft mold.

That is why 90 year old grannies with pins in their hips are being given routine 11. The same for photographers. The terrorists started the idea of using cameras to smuggle stuff because everyone has one. The inconvenience to the public is a side benefit.

Now I know that some bleeding heart out there will point out that profiling does not work. Why just look at Timothy McVeigh, our homegrown terrorist. OK, I’ll look. Let’s see, 1 out of 50? 100? 1,000? I like betting the odds.

OK, now flame away.

[jnantz]

the problem is that these security people are just doing their job.

i am usually one of the folks they (security, police &C) scrutinize, because if my ethnic background --- what can you do, not have them screen anyone just because they are ticked-off? have what seems to be film in a box? or a piece of photo "stuff" they have never seen before?

didn't they (tsa) recently take a large handgun from a congressman and fine him lots of $$?

i never thought i would say this. but while it seems to be a PITA, i am kind of glad they do it.

[Francis Abad]

Unfortunately this is the world we live in. I for one feel that there is still room for more security - the consequences nowadays (e.g. WTC, Bali, Madrid, etc.) far outweigh any annoyance (myself included - Cagliari airport) we might feel at the time. I am under no illusions that I live in a safe world.

[Scott Atkinson]

Fortunately, I don't have to fly with my 8x10. I take 4x5 and shoot Readyload--they can open it, which they do--but no problem. If I did bring the 8x10, I'd take a cue from others I know and download it myself in a changing bag, then FedEx the whole thing (even film I was holding for a second run) to my lab. Or maybe, on a long trip, FedEx batches to my own home. (If it's a long assignment, the lab can give you phone feedback on your earlier stuff.) So am I nuts? Is FedEx in turn X-raying my film to death?

[Juan V.]

Personally, I just let them scan it. But I photograph as a hobby, not a profession.

On the topic of photographing "sensitive" structures, I am a structural engineer by profession and can honestly say that photographing buildings, bridges, etc would provide no real edge to someone who knows what they're doing. If you had even a year of engineering education and ill will you would have enough knowledge to plan an attack. Structures are really quite simple and any reasonable attack would be focused on the basics, not on attacking some critical "weak point" of the structure. A suspension bridge is a suspension bridge is a suspension bridge. Any engineering text book and a little thought would do the job.

I was stopped from photographing the Verrazano Bridge here in NYC a few months ago because I was using a tripod and focusing an 8x10 (yes, I had the necessary tripod permit). The police allowed the tourists next to me to snap away merrily with point-and-shoots/digital/video because they "were told to stop any focusing intently on the bridge." Ahhh. So the real trick is to look aloof.

[Tim Curry]

Lets blame the people who are to blame. They are (usually) from the middle east, young, male, Moslem and full of hatred. This is not to say that anyone who meets the above qualifications is a terrorist, but the profile fits and should be the first indicator of a search. Unfortunately, due to the A.C.L.U. and some like minded courts in the U.S. profiling is no longer legal. This lack of common sense will be costing dearly in the future, as it already did on 9-11.

Blaming Ashcroft for this problem shows a lack of understanding of the legal system, the nature of the threat and liberals in general. I went through the search on the way to and from the LF gathering in Monterey and am glad it was a thorough search. I'm glad we're finally becoming aware of the problem. Too bad people have become so complacent about the ease with which we move, work and live in this country since 2800 people (civilian non-combatants) lost their lives to these sub-humans.

Wake up and smell the coffee, the world has changed, we need to change with it.

[David R Munson]

Changing with the changing world need not include giving up personal freedoms or wrongly impinging upon the rights of individuals simply because they fit into some preconceived idea of what a terrorist supposedly looks like. I refuse to accept that making the system bigger and clumsier is a better solution than working smarter and more efficiently. I understand the legal system, the threats, the attempted solutions, etc - and I maintain that we're barking up the wrong damn tree.

[Frank Petronio]

Airport hassles were an important factor in tipping me towards "going digital." Between security and carry-on requirements, taking large format on any pleasure trip is getting harder and harder. I did order a modified 110b from Dean Jones - I think the entire 4x5 outfit with 20 Readyloads will fit into a small Domke 803 type bag - and from now on I'm just feeding my film (100ASA) through the carry-on X-Ray. I think that the USPS, UPS, and FedEx X-Ray our packages with much stronger radiation than any domestic airport scanner. At least I have never seen an absolutely clear and 100% solid statement that the shipping services don't...

[Robert C. McColloch]

I send my film FedEx to my next destination.

[jnantz]

TC -

"They are (usually) from the middle east, young, male, Moslem and full of hatred" seems to a bit simplistic. Were these folks responsible for the OK-City Bombing?

There are plenty of angry jerks who are white and from America.

[Francis Abad]

It may be simplistic and it certainly is unfair to talk about profiling but it is a fact that the biggest killings of this century (so far) have been perpetrated by those types of individuals. There are a lot of other criminals out there but these times, these terrible, incovenient, annoying, worrying times was exacerbated by the intentional targeting of innocent tourists, office workers, friends, etc. The rules of the game has changed. Why continue to work under the premise that human beings are inherently good - that we live in a safe world. Keep an eye out for your kids and be thankful that money is being spent to secure our airports, highways, buildings, etc. Should we wait to find a perfect solution, should we wait while the powers that be hold debates and talks and conferences to find the most efficient, uncumbersome method for securing their citizens. It is easier to learn by doing. I agree that perhaps the security measures are clumsy at best but I rather that they work on the premise that practice makes perfect than go about it diplomatically (i.e. all talk and no action). I lost friends in WTC and Bali and it is not fair that they were targeted. I lost a box of film in an airport and that is not fair too. But I can always buy another box. I cannot bring my friends back.

[chris jordan]

Hey guys, let's pull our claws in and return to the topic, shall we? This is a large format photography forum, remember? and the topic of this thread is getting through airport security with boxes of undeveloped large format film. If anyone has something to contribute on this specific topic, then please chime in; otherwise we all hopefully have better things to do.

~cj

www.chrisjordan.com

[Francis Abad]

From the very first reply it was already off topic.

[James Driscoll]

This topic did go way off base.....and all it seemed to prove is how short minded some people are.

If we were to use the logic that "the biggest killings of this century were perpetrated by men from the Mid-East" as a basis to profile possible threating individuals ......than how does that logic hold up to the past two centuries....where the biggest killers in the world were white men....from the western world.

If you feel the need to argue that point....you really need to sit down and read.

I am off my soap box....

[Frank Petronio]

I say let it go off-topic, as it is a life and death discussion. Photosgraphers are people with opinions, beliefs, etc. - must we always be so politically correct even on this forum?

[Jim Ewins]

The greatest loss of life comes from governments. Hitler, Stalin etc

[Francis Abad]

Hitler and Stalin were not governments - they were madmen. Are we excusing what is going on in the world right now by saying that it is just evening up the score with what was done in the past? Please let us not deceive ourselves of the threat of this hatred of the West. CNN just posted a poll of Iraqi citizens - they said that they believe that the country will be better off in the futre thanks to the US removing Saddam but THAT THEY STILL DO NOT LIKE THE US. Talk about ungrateful!!!!!!! And for this we suffer airport security intrusions. Go figure.

[Henry Ambrose]

Last time I flew I sent all my stuff Fedex - camera, film, meter, etc. I shipped it to the Fedex station at the destination airport, then drove over and picked it up. It was actually lots less trouble than carrying it through the airport. I sent my film back via Fedex directly to the lab. If you are working, add the transportation charge onto your clients bill. If not, it may still be worth the $50-75 or so you'll spend.

The most fun part of this trip was when I got picked out of line and searched at my home airport, my destination upon arrival and again on departure. Had to take my shoes off each time, got the wand and all. In each event the person who searched me appeared to be other than American by birth. I was pretty hot and just wanted to scream "DO I LOOK LIKE SOME KINDA DAMNED AL QUIEDA TO YOU??!!" But, I kept my mouth shut, got on the plane and had a safe trip. Imagine a white guy, fiftyish, accent that clearly labels me as from the Southern US. In no way would I fit anybody's terrorist profile if they do use such things.

I think the total randomness of the searches is part of the plan to tighten things up. There does not seem to be any way to predict who will get picked to be searched or how. And I can understand that a 4x5 or especially larger film boxes could very well hold dangerous items. But hell, I didn't have any of that stuff and still got selected.

It does seem that there could be some better system for photographers who have to fly. Some kind of early approval system where you get there an extra 30 minutes early to get checked? I don't know!

I do know that I HATE to fly these days and avoid it whenever possible. What a position for the airlines to be in. Putting their customers through such hassels has got to be horrible for business. But its better than being blown up in the air. Which is what I'd be more concerned with because there will never be another successful hijacking of a US plane - not without one hell of a fight by the other passengers. We learned that lesson the hard way and I think permanently.

Anyway, flying in the US is really a tiny, tiny problem compared to what our guys fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan go through. Over the next few years they'll straighten those terrorist bastards out and we can slip back into something like the easy life we had before. So think about them next time you are inconvienced at the airport. Remember, no one's shooting at you!

[dg]

readyload and quickload are the solution !

[Andre Noble]

Coincidently, one of the fallouts I have noticed in the post 9/11 climate as an occaisional street shooter is that many more people will now try to stop me from shooting if they see I am including themselves, their home, or their business in my photograph. This happens now every time I go out and shoot -sometimes 3 times in an afternoon.

What I see is that there is an underlying acceptance ofn the part of many ordinary people (I speak from experience here in L.A. only) of "totalitarianism for personal convienence" that's slip in under the shadow of 9/11. My impression is there is a minority of people who don't really want "freedom", but rather prefer the convienences of a police state.

That's sad, because that's what we'll all soon get here in the U.S.

[Calamity Jane]

Guess I got moderated.

Sorry if I offended anyone with my observations.

CJ

[Donal Taylor]

"CNN just posted a poll of Iraqi citizens - they said that they believe that the country will be better off in the futre thanks to the US removing Saddam but THAT THEY STILL DO NOT LIKE THE US. Talk about ungrateful!!!!!!! And for this we suffer airport security intrusions. Go figure."

I know you'd think they'd have got over all those thousands of US caused dead civilians, infrastructure that no longer works since Saddam was ousted, free and democratic elections (for hand picked US endorsed canditates, not those the people want) etc by know. They really should just be grateful and get a life.

Way OT I know.

[Bruce Watson]

Chris,

Every time I've traveled with film, I've carried my changing bag. Every time I've been hassled, I've offered to set up the bag and let them open the boxes - in the dark. After you explain to them for four or five times that light ruins film and they have to do it in the dark, you can see the light bulb go off over their heads. It's that you are agreeing to let them open the box, but only under conditions that won't ruin your film that does it.

All four times they have declined to open the boxes. So yes, I'd say it works.

That said, if I can get to where I'm going in a car in less than two days, I drive now. The airlines are just way unpleasant (I'm so old I remember when flying used to be pleasant and fun). If I have to fly, I ship the film separately. It's just so much easier to let them xray what they want. Too bad that it only gives the appearance of "security" without actually making flying any more secure.

BTW, LAX is to be avoided at all costs anyway. But you've figured that out now, haven't you? ;-)

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

Seems to me if you want to carry your film with you and the box has been opened,the solution is simple. We all have empty boxes of film, the new boxes come with two seals, tear one up, put the film in one of the empty boxes and remove the unbroken seal with steam, save it, next time you order film, do the same, and voilà you got two "new" seals you can attach to a box.

OTOH the simple solution would be to buy film and travel with new unopened boxes. no?

[Ellis Vener]

Lets blame the people who are to blame

Okay

Let's start with Oliver North for cutting arms for hostages deals with the Iranians (thus proving we are corrupt), then go through the various heads of the CIA, NSQ and FBI who thought they could control Osama bin Laden, Next let's proceed to the CIA/NSA execs who backed off of a Clinton ordered cruise missle strike becasue they were afraid one of Osama's pals might be in the hunting camp where Osama was located, and who ignored warnings from field agents. (Presidents George H.W. Bush, Clinton and George W. Bush are also on the hook). Not to forget Ashcroft. Those are the people to blame in the USA.

Now we can head overseas; The House of Saud who runnSaudi Arabia, the arabs who support in various ways Osama and his thugs, the Taliban and of course Osama and his minions.

Let us not forget everyone who bought opium from the Taliban, opium based products, or let the drug trade go through their country.

[Dean Cookson]

You've got to go back farther than Ollie. Try 1912, when Winston Churchill, as First Lord of the Royal Navy, ordered the conversion of Britain's navy from coal to oil fired boilers. Once Britain was dependent on Middle Eastern oil for her Navy, she had to be sure that control of the oil fields was in "safe" hands. That, of course, started a race among all the major world powers of the time to control parts of the region and it's that very forced, Western control that bred the attitudes prevalent today.

I'm not saying we're all sweetness and light, but we didn't start the problem, we're just the most recent manifestation of it. In a region where animosities from 2000 years ago are still alive, you better believe people remember Western Imperialism from 50 years ago.

But this is way off topic.

Now-a-days I just let my film go through the carry-on x-ray machine. I've never had a problem with 400 speed or slower with up to 4 passes per trip...