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Kirk Gittings
19-Apr-2004, 17:40
As my eyes get older, I find that my ability to judge subleties of color has diminished and I wonder if a particular light source for viewing might help. This problem is true whether I am trying to judge the effect of a particular developer on a b&w paper tone, the degree of a selenium tone or I also print vast quantities of color prints for my commercial clients. The problem is especially true when I am tired and printing late into the evening. I have tried warm, cool and color corrected (like they use on light tables) flourescents as well as regular incandescent and the new "full spectrum" incandescents without much help. Today I delivered some color prints to an architect client that looked great under my full spectrum incandescents, but looked way to warm in his office, which was lit with coolwhite flourescents and daylight. This never used to happen to me.

clay harmon
19-Apr-2004, 18:12
Some of the digi-printers here in Houston swear by a screw-in fluorescent bulb that comes in different color temperatures. A specialty lighting store sells the things, and you can buy a bulb that is specifically 4800K or 5000K or even 5500K. What with all the metamarism problems with digital prints, they say this is the only way to reliably judge their output. They generally use the 5000K bulb in their viewing lamp fixtures.

Bob Fowler
19-Apr-2004, 19:06
My wife does a lot of needlepoint. She bought an Ott light at the craft store which is perfect for viewing prints to check color balance. Hers is a floor model (kinda pricey) but there are also less expensive desk models available.

Tim Curry
19-Apr-2004, 20:43
Kirk,

This is a problem every time I print, as I never know in what lighting I will actually be viewing the finished print, unless it is for myself. I think it might be better if you knew in advance the light you would be viewing the prints under. I understand it isn't possible to have "one of everything," but, since lighting is critical when viewing a finished print, it might be a good idea to have a reading of the ambient light if you can manage it. A set of known values in bulbs which cover the usual lighting you would encounter in a home or office might be the only way to deal with it. If you know it will be hung on a wall, you could take a reading off of a gray card for a black & white and be reasonably certain of the final print, because you can duplicate that amount of light when you are printing in your studio.

Color has its own set of problems, as intensity and temperature come into play. How about a color temperature meter? You do need the tax deduction for next year, right? Just add the cost on in a way it isn't too obvious, but since it is crucial to the finished work, the justification seems reasonable. "Pass the savings along." I know this isn't much of a solution, but I don't know of any other way you can be reasonably certain of the final print's values when it is shown.

Don Bryant
19-Apr-2004, 20:51
Kirk,

FWIW, I've just moved into my recently remodeled office studio. When I installed new lighting I included two flourescent fixtures in my suspended ceiling over areas where I retouch prints or need to make critical assement of color. I used Phillips 5000K tubes and it makes all the difference in the world in my color accuity and my judgement of color rendering.

As others have mentioned Ott lamps are also a possibility but I find there output limited when I need a lot of intense light. They are good for a reference lamp in a dimmed down environment for digital editing. My wife likes them for her sewing and fibre arts, she uses the free standing floor model which she can move about when needed. Either way 5000K light sources will help a great deal with your vision and proper perception of color.

Good luck,

Don Bryant

Michael Mutmansky
19-Apr-2004, 21:12
Kirk,

Dump the so-called full 'full spectrum' incandescent lanps. They are merely a marketing gimmick by the lamp manufacturers. What they did was take a normal incandescent lamp (that has a very high color rendering index of nearly 100) and put a bit of blue filtration on it that shifts the color temperature up toward 5000K, which is generally considered a normal noon-day sunlight temperature.

This blue filtration reduces the color rendering index (CRI) of the lamp, and heavily reduces the amount of yellow/reds that will be displayed under the light. If you use this light to color balance, you will probably always be much to heavy on the yellow end under more traditional light sources.

As a professional lighting engineer for my day job, I sometimes find my industry shameful. There are people out there who lare buying these full spectrum lamps with the impression that they will improve their health or quality of life, and the research just doesn't support the claims that these manufacturers have made.

The Ott lamps mentioned do a good job simulating the spectrum of daylight while still having a high CRI, which makes them good for color balancing, unless you are planning to display the lights under incandescent, where they may tend to be a bit too yellow again.

There is no one solution to the issue. I look at a print under incandescent, and North light, and sometimes under fluorescent to get a sense for how it will render under all of these.

---Michael

Henry Ambrose
19-Apr-2004, 22:03
I delivered an Epson print to a client once that looked so green in his office that I almost had a stroke. Fortunately he was a good client and easy-going. I snatched the print from him and told him I would re-print it right away. I did and we both were happy. I counted this as my one lucky break because it could have been someone more prone to judge me incompetent. The first print looked fine under my lighting conditions but pretty horrible under his office lighting. Ever since I've stayed away from those prints for real work. The latest Epsons are better, I hear, but I don't own one of the latest generation. Ever since I've used the Durst Lambda (the best prints I've found) or Fuji Pictro (second best and I own one of these machines) prints for clients and I'm not so anxious about delivering something that might look wrong. If in doubt I make additional prints with alternative interpretations and look at them the next day. Amazing how I can pick the right one given just a little rest for my eyes. I've about convinced myself that working on scans and retouching/correcting/altering files on the computer for extended periods leaves me incapable of fine judgement. It seems like the glowing CRT image erases my ability to view a print critically. All my equipment is excellent quality and carefully calibrated but after I've worked on a scan for 2 or more hours I've looked at it too long to really know if the color is right on a print. Frequent breaks help. Often I order extra prints even with the Lambdas (which I have to pay someone else to make) I feel better picking the best instead of having only one choice. A couple extra $20 prints won't kill my budget - certainly not the way delivering bad work would.

So I think slowing down and picking your prints later might be a good answer. I like to grind out the job and get paid but sometimes slower is better. And after all, if making great prints was real easy then we'd be in big trouble.

Darin Cozine
19-Apr-2004, 23:27
Kirk, I remember reading about someone who made a lightbox with parts from a dichoric enlarger head. This allowed him to adjust the color temp for his own use, as well as show the effects of different lighting to clients.

Something else that may help you understand the lighting you are viewing your print in.. Get a color temperature meter so you can be sure what the ambient light of the room is.

Kirk Gittings
19-Apr-2004, 23:33
Useful tips thank you all! I am not familiar with the OTT lamp. Where does one find them?

Tim, I do own a color temp. meter. I am an architectural photographer and couldn't get by without it, but I don't think reading the clients light sources is the answer. There are simply too many variables even in one office, halogens in the entry, cool or warm flourescents in the hallways with a daylight mix in the senior offices! And then alot of my prints are done for design competitions off premises and who knows what is going to there.

Michael, Thanks for the heads up about the problems with full spectrum bulbs. I will try some of the other suggestions.

Is anyone here in their fifties? I've been at this for 26 years and I find that my eyes adjust to different light sources much slower than they used to.

Mark Sampson
20-Apr-2004, 06:24
As some people have mentioned, the problem is not with your eyes. Current photo materials, analog or digital, show colors differently under different colors of light. I believe this is called "metamerism", and I think it's more of a problem than it used to be. The lighting industry is perfectly happy to produce and sell the ugliest non-full-spectrum lights, too. Perhaps the best way is to set the standard yourself. The lightbox makers offer 'print viewing booths' that use 5000k lamps, some offer tungsten and fluorescent as well. If you balance your prints there, you will at least have a standard... so when your clients view your prints under sodium-vapor parking-lot lamps and complain, you will at least know you did it right.

Scott Walton
20-Apr-2004, 07:02
Kirk, You can find the OTT lights in fly tying shops or here (google search) http://www.best-vacuum.com/hbx/g-ott-lite.html. They are great but as someone above mentioned, a picture will look different if the client has different lighting... floro lighting can run the gamit from really bad green to a "psuedo" daylight.

David Kaufman
20-Apr-2004, 07:09
The best artifical light source for judging colour and black and white prints' tone are Solux 4700K bulbs. They are a bit warm compared to some types of daylight but colours are perceived accurately. The problem with Solux bulbs is that they are halogen type bulbs and you need several to cover a large area. They are also very intense and will cause colours to appear a little richer than in daylight (because of the 4700K temperature) and a little brighter (because of the light intensity). So I use the Solux bulbs to judge colour but not print density. In my experience, all 5000K high CRI (92 or better) flourescents display some sort of subtle colour casts which increase and change as they age. The GE chroma 50s seem to be okay as are the equivalent Philips bulbs. But Solux bulbs are superior to the flourescents.

Henry Ambrose
20-Apr-2004, 07:23
Kirk, I'm fifty and just started wearing glasses in the last year. I know my eyes have changed and I'm sure I am less tolerant of eye strain or stress than I was a few years ago. Add in the fact that you probably spend a good deal of time out in the bright sun and then go spend too much time in the dark and it all gets harder and harder as we get older.

A few years ago I did mostly tabletop work for print reproduction - catalogs and such. Transferring color to the printed page is a very refined science (with some voodoo still involved). I found it in some ways easier than trying to deliver a great photographic print because there are standards for viewing conditions and you are generally working in a controlled loop type situation where the translations are fixed more or less and everyone involved could get a good preview of what the final product would look like. The varied lighting conditions and complete lack of standardization of viewing conditions make delivering a great photo print to an architectural client a daunting proposition. They usually have a very good idea what their baby looks like! Add in the fact that some of the current processes do have problems with color shifts under different light sources and you've got a mix for trouble. If you were delivering perfectly exposed chromes you would be excused from the exercise. As soon as you take on the additional responsibility of making the print you open yourself to the vagaries of that process.

I deliver prints because it is an integral part of how I choose to do the work. I shoot color neg film, scan and make adjustments to make the best print I can. For me that completes the cycle of creation, something that I find lacking in delivering a chrome or a CD with files that will go on press far away and I might not see until months later and have no control over during the printing steps.

You, no doubt, already know all that I've just written from your long experience and I am a relative newcomer to architecture photography. But I've been through this conversation with other photographers before and even though we called in all the "magic bullets" the best answer I have found is that its hard if not impossible to simply churn out perfect work everytime. You will be more involved than you might want to be at times! The last crisis was around the management of digital files and maintaining color and look while handing the job off to the next step in the cycle - the job that used to belong to the engravers and printers. I think this is the same conversation again but revolving around a slightly different subject. But I'd welcome anyone who has new ideas about how to make it easier.

As I wrote before, using a print method that provides the most stable appeareance under varied lighting conditions is imperative. Once you have that locked down you just have to do the best you can with your senses. I find that slowing down helps me.

If you are not doing digital work yet (I get the impression that you are doing traditional color printing) you might think about that as a helpful solution. For sure it is capable of producing large quantities of prints that are identical once you get the first one right.

Raymond Bleesz
20-Apr-2004, 07:24
Kirk,

Perhaps a Colorado answer to your question. A personal friend, Gary Regester, who developed the original Chimera light banks and now of Plume Wafer light banks has done extensive research & development of alternative light sources for governmental projects as well as private usage. Gary, who lives in Silver Plume along the I-70 corridor, has a unique reading/study light which may be of interest. Gary's email is info@plumeltd.com--His web site is, www.plumeltd.com and the light/lamp I am speaking of is under Plume Tools-------If you follow up on this lead & persue Gary's light, please keep me posted as I have pondered it as well.

Gary's trade mark, off beat thinking & development of unique lighting sources, is a story unto itself. You will find him a most unusual individual.

And yes, our fading eye accuteness--what a bitch!!!!!!!

Raymond in Vail

Andy Eads
20-Apr-2004, 14:14
Kirk, Two other possibilities here. Both have to do with how your body works. First, if you are tired, your color perception is affected. Second, caffine affects color vision as well. Bret Weston commented that he always printed in the morning when he was rested. His prints speak for themselves. Andy

QT Luong
20-Apr-2004, 17:08
I also use an Ott lamp that I find serviceable, but if you have money to spare or higher standards, you could get a reflective print viewer such as the ones made by Just Normlicht.

Kirk Gittings
20-Apr-2004, 22:44
Andy how does coffee affect color vision. This is the first I ahve heard of this. I confess! I am a Starbucks addict.