Profiling: X-Rite's i1Pro & Eye-One Match3 VS SilverFast's v.8 IT8 Auto Calibration

[sngraphics]

I have been using the SilverFast v.8 Demo with my Epson V750 for a little while now and will be purchasing the upgrade.
(Previously used with SF v.6.6)
During emails back and forth they mentioned a coupon code. 25% off the upgrade and their targets when purchased together.
This got me thinking.

Till now I have been profiling my scanner with X-Rite's i1Pro & Eye-One Match 3 and have been pretty satisfied.
But in my correspondence with LaserSoft they state I will get better results with one of their targets and the Auto IT8 Calibration Feature.
I am not a color expert and that is why I am asking for a little help.

What provides a "Better" result?
Profiling your scanner using X-Rite's solution (i1Pro & i1Match) or SilverFast's solution (Auto IT8 & Their Targets)

Any comments or advice would be much appreciated.
I don't have any experience with SilverFast's IT8 auto Calibration and am just looking to get the most accurate scans possible.
Thank you in advance.

[Doug Fisher]

>>But in my correspondence with LaserSoft they state I will get better results with one of their targets and the Auto IT8 Calibration Feature.<<

What explanations and specifics did they give to you explain why/how their software will produce a better profile?

Doug

[neil poulsen]

I've never been much impressed with the IT8 targets. I forget how many patches they include. I've been using the Hutchcolor targets, which at about 540, have far more patches that are probably at higher saturation. For software, I'm still using PM5.

Are you doing reflection or transmission calibration?

Another good place to ask a question like this is on the Colour Management Forum at Luminous-Landscape.

[sngraphics]

>>But in my correspondence with LaserSoft they state I will get better results with one of their targets and the Auto IT8 Calibration Feature.<<

What explanations and specifics did they give to you explain why/how their software will produce a better profile?

Doug



This is the response I received after asking how their IT8 Auto Cal solution compares to my current profiling method using X-Rite's stuff.


Dear Mr. ....

The auto IT8 calibration will automatically set the input profile for the scanner.
Other options can be set/changed manually as needed.

In most cases calibrating the scanner using silverFast will be more precise.
It takes into account the automatic lamp adjustment a scanner performs.
An externally generated profile can not do that.
But this will only influence brightness levels not the color tones of cause and mostly is not noticeable.
You should perform a few scans before calibrating to ensure the entire device is at it's normal working temperature.


Kind regards
- LSI Support Manager -



Is this correct info?
Does it make sense?

[Doug Fisher]

I am really skeptical that you will find the Silverfast provides any appreciable benefit over the solution you are using now (assuming you have a decent test target that is in good shape).

Doug

[sngraphics]

I've never been much impressed with the IT8 targets. I forget how many patches they include. I've been using the Hutchcolor targets, which at about 540, have far more patches that are probably at higher saturation. For software, I'm still using PM5.

Are you doing reflection or transmission calibration?

Another good place to ask a question like this is on the Colour Management Forum at Luminous-Landscape.


Thank you for the tip. Others have been recommending the Hutchcolor targets as well.

All the work I do here is reflective scanning.
Till now I have been using the "Eye-One Scan Target 1.4" that came with the Eye-One Extreme package.
For Software I have been using Eye-One Match.
But I have just found out that X-Rite will finally be updating i1Profiler (which I also have) to include Scanner Profiling as well!
A lot of people have been waiting for that since i1Profiler was released.

Thank you as well for reminding me about the Luminous-Landscape site.
It is also an excellent resource.
Have already posted the same topic there as well.

[sngraphics]

I am really skeptical that you will find the Silverfast provides any appreciable benefit over the solution you are using now (assuming you have a decent test target that is in good shape).

Doug

As I stated in the previous post, I have been using the "Eye-One Scan Target 1.4" that came with the Eye-One Extreme package.
It is still in "New" condition.
I have always wondered how good this target is?
Good, Bad, OK?

[Tyler Boley]

as long as you have the associated reference text file, you can use any IT8 or Hutch target with either software. I've gotten good results with both Silverfast's, Monaco, and EyeOne, and both Hutch and provided IT8's. My results with the Hutch target are better but it is also newer, still I would expect it to be better anyway. I can't say I ever had a problem with the IT8s I used for years though, from Wolf Faust and Agfa.
One thing to keep in mind when investing in software, Xrite is moving away from profiling scanner software, the newest i1profiler has none so you will always be keeping legacy software alive going that way. It's a safe bet Silverfast will always support a profiling option.
Tyler

[sngraphics]

One thing to keep in mind when investing in software, Xrite is moving away from profiling scanner software, the newest i1profiler has none so you will always be keeping legacy software alive going that way. It's a safe bet Silverfast will always support a profiling option.
Tyler

This is exactly what I thought when I posted this topic.
I thought I would have to keep a copy of Eye-One Match around forever.
That's one of the reasons I'm still on OSX 10.6.8 and that is the exact reason why I started considering Silverfast's Auto IT8 solution.
I felt that they would continue to support this feature into the future and I would not need to keep legacy software around.

But, a little after I posted this topic I found out that X-Rite will be releasing an update (1.4.1) to i1Profiler to INCLUDE scanner profiling.
The X-Rite tech said any day now, a couple of weeks ago! Still waiting.
We'll see what happens when that is released. Most likely be a topic for another post.

One member over at the Colour Management Forum at Luminous-Landscape (Onsight) who responded to this
same topic that I posted there had this to say: "Stay tuned for a new option that will surpass all of those..."

Now who knows what that means?
I asked him but he didn't want to spill the beens.

[Preston]

VueScan Pro has the ability to create profiles. You need to have an IT8 target and its associated Q60 text file.

--P

[Tyler Boley]

you are correct some kind of update to i1profiler seems to be on the way. I found the same info after my post. At this point comparing costs becomes relevant perhaps... A scanner add on was always and upgrade to the old i1MAtch software, but not Monaco Gold or Platinum. At least Xrite is not ignoring us scanner users now it seems

[sngraphics]

VueScan Pro has the ability to create profiles. You need to have an IT8 target and its associated Q60 text file.

--P

Was about to purchase the upgrade to SilverFast 8 but I held off to try out VueScan.
Only problem is the profiling options are not available when using the demo version.

This is really the only part of the software I would be using seeing that I have never used any of the features in SFv8 and that I perform all my edits in Photoshop.
Maybe someone can post any experience they have had with both of these pieces of software and profiling with them.

I would have liked to have tried out VueScan's Auto iT8 feature but more so I would have wanted to use my i1Pro and the new
i1Profiler 1.4.2 update that now includes scanner profiling and apply the resulting profile in VueScan. (If that is possible. It is in SilverFast)

[Preston]

...and apply the resulting profile in VueScan. (If that is possible. It is in SilverFast)

Yes, you can. In Vuescan's Color tab.

1. Create your Profile and note where it stored on your computer. Also, you'll need to know the location of the IT8 Q60 file.
2. In Scanner Color Space, select ICC Profile.
3. In the Scanner ICC Profile box, navigate to your profile
4. In the Scanner ICC Description box, type a descriptive name for your profile
5. In the IT8 data box, navigate to your Q60 file.

To make sure all is well, close and then restart VueScan.

That should do it. Note: It is critical that you have the correct IT8 (Q60) file for your calibration transparency.

--P

[sngraphics]

Finally it's out!
Is this update that much of a "Game Changer" for scanner profiling?

With the release of i1Profiler 1.4.2, maybe we should change the subject line of this thread?
"X-Rite's i1Pro & Eye-One Match3 VS i1Profiler 1.4.2"
Or start a new thread: "i1Profiler 1.4.2 VS SilverFast's v.8"
We can probably start a few other topics too!

What is the difference between how i1Profiler performs its scanner profiling as compared to Silverfast's Auto IT8 feature?
Now that i1Profiler does not use a measurement device, but relies entirely on the scanner, doesn't it basically work the same way as Silverfast?
Other posters in other forums expressed concerns with Silverfast's Auto iT8 feature stating that you would get more accurate results measuring the target yourself.

Does X-Rite have any plans to at least offer the option to use a measurement device in i1Profiler's scanner profiling process?
Is a measurement device necessary anymore? Is this even a concern? Or am I just so used to profiling with my Eye-One Match and i1Pro?

Why are the HCT targets not listed in the list of compatible targets for scanner profiling in i1Profiler 1.4.2?
Did I miss something here?

I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts on all this because I am in the middle of trying to finalize a workflow
for myself here and the scanner (& profiling it) is of course an important part of the equation to finalize.
Thank you and God Bless.

[sngraphics]

Because I couldn't find any type of comparisons or results online to my original question posted on Dec15,2012
I thought I would take a shot at doing some comparison tests between these scanner profiling solutions myself.

Many tests were conducted over the past few months using different targets and scanning softwares.
This is the first time I have done this so please forgive any missteps and feedback would be much appreciated.

The various tests and results will be posted under a new topic because I felt it would be better to start one with a more accurate title.
For anyone that's interested the title of the new thread will be: Scanner Profiling Comparisons: i1Profiler1.4.2 vs SilverFast8 IT8Cal vs i1Match3

I will not be providing too much feedback on the results because I cannot say which one is "better". (I do have my preference though)
More so I will be providing the profiles themselves, screen shots of the results after creating the profiles and Photoshop files containing test scans with the applied profiles.
This post will be available soon so anyone interested can download these files, look them over and provide any comments based on their own experience and knowledge.

Thank you.