View Full Version : "at your own risk"

28-Nov-2012, 11:11
Had an unfortunate purchasing experience with a member on "For Sale/Wanted" . He is now on my ignore list and if you need to know who it was, it shouldn't be too difficult to find the sale. 10x12 holders. Took the loss, the old dog can still learn the lesson. It really is "at your own risk".

28-Nov-2012, 11:14
... so what was wrong with them?

Sal Santamaura
28-Nov-2012, 11:24
...It really is "at your own risk".That's why the "For Sale/Wanted" category includes the admonition in red font. :) It's also why I always felt we shouldn't include that category in this forum and why I rely on venues offering buyer protection, like eBay, when purchasing used items.

28-Nov-2012, 16:24
That sucks. For the record pretty much only good experiences here. One camera whose problems were a bit more involved than I realized but otherwise only good experiences.

28-Nov-2012, 16:43
What sucks?

Eric Rose
28-Nov-2012, 16:55
Gee that's really unfortunate. I'm sure you aren't the type to let it bother you to much. Thanks for the heads up.

28-Nov-2012, 19:43
If you used paypal ... file a complaint.....if you did not use paypal your SOL... Paypal will jerk the funds out of the sellers account and refund you...

29-Nov-2012, 05:41

sorry to hear that.

steven is a good guy in my past experience. i will call you in a bit (i will wait a few to be sure you get teh appropriate amount of beauty sleep. i know you need it!) and see if i can help. i am sure steven will make it right.

get out of bed, your phone is ringing!


29-Nov-2012, 06:11
That's why the "For Sale/Wanted" category includes the admonition in red font. :) It's also why I always felt we shouldn't include that category in this forum and why I rely on venues offering buyer protection, like eBay, when purchasing used items.

Sal, all life is a risk, but my experience with the for-sale forum here is that prices are usually better enough to be willing to assume a bit more risk. Also, sellers can be vetted to some extent by their history on the forum. That isn't perfect by any means, but I'd rather have the opportunity to take a risk and sometimes enjoy the reward than to be protected from it and never see the reward.

Even respectable sellers--sellers from whom I would buy again without hesitation--sometimes get it wrong. I bought a camera recently from a forum member and when it arrived, the shutter cocking portion of the film advance did not work. We talked, and he offered a refund. But his price had been good enough that we shared the risk--he refunded a portion of what it is costing to get it repaired. In the end, I paid more, but for a camera that has also received a full CLA--and it was still a fair deal. Appropriately, that alternative was mine to choose. Were I the cynical and jumpy type, I might have gone on a public rant about it (which is NOT what is happening in this thread), and prevent a more favorable outcome.

On another occasion, a fairly expensive item I bought here was a previous version of what was represented--a version with fewer features. A mistake? Possibly, though I'm a bit doubtful. But the price was still good enough to make it worth keeping, with respect to my use cases for that device. Had I pressed it, that seller would have offered a refund, too, I'm sure, without having to resort to enforcement channels.

As we can see from other threads, the only safe transaction is one where acceptable goods are put into my hands at the same time cash is put into the seller's hands. But those sorts of acquisitions limit one's options pretty severely, especially if they don't live in a hotbed of large-format activity.

What's the old saying? Ships are only safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for.

Rick "who can assess risk and (sometimes) suffer consequences on his own" Denney

Renato Tonelli
29-Nov-2012, 06:32
:Rick - that's a well-reasoned assessment of forum-based buying/selling. I haven't had a bad experience yet, either buying or selling and I have done plenty more buying than selling. Perhaps some items were not as mint as claimed but not worth quibbling about.

Nonetheless, it is a bit disappointing to hear that someone was sold an item the condition of which was misrepresented.

Renato "who always appreciates what Rick has to say" Tonelli.:)

29-Nov-2012, 07:13
What's the old saying? Ships are only safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for.

Rick "who can assess risk and (sometimes) suffer consequences on his own" Denney

eeeerrrrr? must be a saying used before 1941 eh? oh! and boxing day of 2004. and maybe 2012 in NJ now as well......

29-Nov-2012, 07:33
I have had nothing but great experiences on here, and yes i agree with what rick said, most of the time feepay is way to high, i seem to always see a good deal on here,

ImSo "often wonders how long it takes rick to think up all this cool middle names " Negative:p

29-Nov-2012, 07:35
eeeerrrrr? must be a saying used before 1941 eh?

Way before. 2,000 dead in Halifax, 1917:



29-Nov-2012, 08:06
I sold William the holders

I may have mis-represented the condition on one of the holders, but to my eyes it was working or at least could be used with minimal repair

I sold him 3 plus parts for $150

1 was good, 1 was borderline (my error I represented it as good) and one was for parts

I thought this was a very fair deal saying that 1 new one is 250+++ easily

William sent me some messages, 1st when he didnt get the holders (he missed the delivery slip from USPS) and 2nd when he was upset about the quality, and then 3rd after I didnt reply to him right away.

He sent me the message right around thanksgiving while I was traveling and I was not able to answer right away

"Steven, I have to say I am underwhelmed with the quality of the holders I bought from you. I wouldn't consider any of them to be in "good" condition although they "may" be useable, they ARE ugly. Don't expect any further sales from me. Bill "

then he sent me another message and then proceeded to put me on his ignore list

"Steven, I'm very disappointed in you for not replying to my last message of complaint... I know the " for sale" portion of this site is an "at your own risk" system, but that doesn't give you permission to stick it to those you sell to with impunity...and then stone wall them when they have a legitimate complaint. The holders came wrapped in PAPER & TAPE, not even a box. Only ONE holder works the other two have light leaks & the Spare(?) slides were mostly cracked or broken probably due to your incompetent packing and shipping. Please do not respond... you are now on my ignore list. Bill "

I am in the middle of moving and have a lot of stuff going on..
I sent him a message offering him a partial refund to make it right and I have heard nothing back.
I would also be happy to accept a return of the holders

so bill if you are out there, I am here to make it right, send me a message and ill send you a partial refund of what will make you happy or just return the holders.. but please contact me if you wish to do so because my address is in a different state right now. Sorry I could respond immediately to you I have been very busy. It is not my intent to mislead you and again I am here to make it right.

29-Nov-2012, 08:08
My reply to his message sent 11/28

Re: 10x12

Bill I'm not sure how I can make you happy

I told you one holder needed work and one was strictly for parts?

I'm in the middle of moving into a new place and a new state so I've been very busy

If u want I can send you a partial refund

There's no need to be upset I stand behind what I offer

Bear in mind that 10x12 holders are tough to find and new ones cost 250 and up

I think I priced it fairly "

29-Nov-2012, 08:45
bravo! it looks like it'll all work out for the best!

kudos to steven!

29-Nov-2012, 10:37
sounds like trying to make it right to me!!

29-Nov-2012, 14:11
Steven, I would like to return the holders. I'll pay shipping to me whatever that was, and $4.50 for Paypal off the $150.00 and then pay to ship them back Priority.... I appreciate your working with me on this... All I need is your new address .... Thanks to the wisdom of the Eddness.. Bill

29-Nov-2012, 15:54
Now this sounds like a happy ending.

1-Dec-2012, 01:42
In the case of old ULF the risks are very high and so are the prices. If they dont fit your back they may still work, I have 2 standard 11x14 holders (i think) and a back that is not, groove in the wrong place and too wide, but they slide in nice and flush up to the rib and I am happily wasting 11x14 film. I got them in a package with the camera, but it was not a bad deal.

I dont buy much stuff anymore, but a good rule I had is to avoid people who are frequently selling stuff like the plauge, the type who bottom feed on ebay and flick what they dont want on here, you never get a fair deal out of that crowd, they are too busy covering their asses.

6-Dec-2012, 06:28
Just to let everyone know, Steven and I worked everything out to our mutual satisfaction.... Thanks all, Bill