PDA

View Full Version : On the Forum's Value



tgtaylor
11-Nov-2012, 10:47
Excerpted from a post in the Classified:

"...But the reaction that it generated from a couple of relatively new and unknown posters (imposters?) illustrates a reason why very few, if any at all, truly accomplished photographers contribute to this site. And those that did, or do, quickly leave. Even the Forum's founder has stopped posting to it and many of those that do post don't even shoot film much less large format.

Since I have been a member there has been a steady downward spiral in the forum's value to the large format community. In fact there is no real community at all: the forum is dominated by a small handful of professional bloggers that essentially live on the internet 24/7. They are certainly not photographers for photography demands time – especially large format film photography – and those guys are clearly not putting their time into photography. They may be classified as an internet chat room photographer but a photographer they are clearly not. And the problem with that is that style of photographer fails to grow – they simply don't evolve in photography as one does when actively engaged with it – and as a result are a bad example to hold up to those coming into the hobby/profession; bad pennies so to speak.

Contributing to this forum bring to mind something a famous bluesman once said to me: “If you find something that you like, keep it to yourself.”

Thomas

Cletus
11-Nov-2012, 11:03
hm.

Gem Singer
11-Nov-2012, 11:06
Thomas,

I agree with most of your statement. However, the advent of the smart phone and the IPad, participation on this forum can be made anytime from virtually anywhere.

Even while photographing out in the field or working at a day job.

mdm
11-Nov-2012, 12:34
The way to fix that is to contribute photos and stop winging. The people who's contribution has the highest value, for the most part, say the least. It is habitually argumentative people such as ..... (who seems to have gone away, thank God) for example who ruin it. If you are looking for the perfect forum for outstanding photographers where everyone agrees and there is no noise about hand tools or chest banging by the worlds greatest printer, it does not exist. Best to make the best of what we have. Is there another large format forum out there? What we should be about is growth, and also one should recognise that in growing we also come to the point where we need a forum less. So some people will come and go or pop in occasionally. Thats OK. There are always more people curious about big cameras, developing and printing.

evan clarke
11-Nov-2012, 13:10
People just overthink the basics, quit analyzing and DO something.

Vaughn
11-Nov-2012, 13:41
And some of us post throughout the day/night when there is down time near a computer...such as I am right now...sitting behind the counter of my gallery (actually a cooperative). Though I am on the computer right now, twenty-four hours ago I was visiting a friend, taking a couple 8x10 images, and helping split/stack firewood.

Whoever made the quote in the first post must be pyschic to know how everyone spends their time on and off the computer! LOL! AS well as being so insightful to know of remote people's inner growth!

The secret is to weave one's photography into one's life, just as one weaves one's family, as well as one's job and friends, into one's life. And how one does it, is one's own business -- and being judged by someone in front of another computer is not to be taken seriously.

jnanian
11-Nov-2012, 13:52
in 2001, if someone posted a aesthetic, philosophically leaning question
they would have been greeted by criticism and comments how the site was changing for the worse ...

the way it is now, is most certainly a downward spiral.

Leigh
11-Nov-2012, 14:32
Since I'm probably one of the people referenced in the quoted text, I feel qualified to answer.

One problem lies in the definition of "experience". There are lots of folks here with lots of experience, myself included.

A question commonly asked of tradesmen seeking a new job:
"Do you have 20 years' experience, or one year's experience 20 times over?" Real experience demands growth.

Experience is a very individual thing. Yours differs from mine, which differs from his, which differs from hers, etc. The fact that one person has done something the same way for 40 years does not mean it's the most efficient/easiest/best way to accomplish the task. This is particularly true in photography, where techniques and materials are constantly changing.

Unfortunately, some experienced individuals think their pronouncements should be accepted as gospel by the masses.
They get defensive when their ideas are not accepted, or are perhaps contradicted by other posts.
They take that as a personal insult, rather than simply an expression of a different point of view.

Maybe we should all relax and accept the forum as a place to exchange ideas... nothing more, nothing less.

- Leigh

patrickjames
11-Nov-2012, 15:11
I am sure many photographers read LFF but they think it is a bad idea to post here and open themselves up to the forum nutjobs. I just try to skip the riff-raff. Some people are on my ignore list. I come here quite a bit but I usually avoid posting since anything written is immediately contradicted. There are some aggro people here. That said, there are some nice ones too and that makes it worth visiting. I have always found forum worlds interesting because they have nothing to do with the actual real world. Lots of experts that never make a photo or talk like they are the bomb but their photos suck.

Mark Sawyer
11-Nov-2012, 15:40
I come here quite a bit but I usually avoid posting since anything written is immediately contradicted...

No, it isn't! :rolleyes:

Leigh
11-Nov-2012, 15:45
Yes it is! :D

- Leigh

Frank Petronio
11-Nov-2012, 16:50
Who are the professional bloggers here?

People come and go here, I bet most don't actually shoot large format. Isn't that the case with any special interest forum? The only solution would be fees and qualifications, maybe a referral system? My buddies like mdm could blackball me. Like a sorority.

Leigh
11-Nov-2012, 17:03
Why, Frank. I didn't know you belonged to a sorority! We learn something new about you every day. :D

I guess that's how you met/meet all your models, yes???

- Leigh

karl french
11-Nov-2012, 18:28
Shouldn't you be out shooting?

jcoldslabs
11-Nov-2012, 18:29
Speaking of this forum, it seems common for people to abbreviate it as LFF, but the banner at the top of my screen says "Large Format Photography Forum." Wouldn't the more accurate acronym be LFPF? Did I miss the memo?

As for the forum's value, that seems to be something we each must determine for ourselves. If this one no longer offers what you're looking for you can always start your own.

Jonathan

jcoldslabs
11-Nov-2012, 18:36
Perhaps the OP could have been more clear that the excerpt he was quoting was his own (see post #20):

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?96580-ederphoto/page2

Jonathan

Frank Petronio
11-Nov-2012, 18:48
I think he's mad because in that thread about ederphoto he shared his own sketchy deal experience by commenting that a "black guy turned out to be honest in the end" and some people - non shooting professional bloggers, I suspect - thought it was strange that melatonin had anything to do with ethics.

Leigh
11-Nov-2012, 19:03
Perhaps the OP could have been more clear that the excerpt he was quoting was his own (see post #20):
Verrrrrrry interrrrrresting. :D

- Leigh

BrianShaw
11-Nov-2012, 20:33
...

Please tell me that you're joking.

BrianShaw
11-Nov-2012, 20:35
Oh, don't bother. I just saw all of the deleted posts. That's worse than I could have imagine all on my own.

welly
11-Nov-2012, 21:15
I think the OP has been completely unreasonable. As someone (relatively? probably) new to large format AND film photography, this forum has been incredibly valuable to me, and dare I say the same for the regular new members of the forum. I know that without doubt if it wasn't for this forum, I'd still be scratching my head, making even worse images than I'm doing now. I don't profess to be anywhere near as capable as many of the people on this forum but I know my photography has really come along leaps and bounds because of the help I've received from people on here.

You claim there is no real community? Codswallop! Sure, temperatures are raised from time to time but that is inevitable on this type of medium. I find this forum the most helpful and friendly photography forum I've used. You want a lack of community and value? Check out dpreview forums - this place is gold compared with that site. You've made a lot of totally unsubstantiated claims in your post and I wonder if it's a little bitterness on your part for being called out on your comment? I suspect so.

Lenny Eiger
11-Nov-2012, 21:35
I like this forum a lot. Lots of folks have taken advantage of my scanning services and I have had the opportunity to talk to every one of them. They have been a very nice bunch of people.

I think one of the issues is that Photography has changed. There are a lot of people who call themselves photographers when all they have ever used is a cellphone to take photographs, they may have never read a book, much less looked at a lot of photographs from other good, or great, photographers. One of my pet peeves is that landscape photographers ought to know more work that just Ansel Adams before they say they have "studied" landscape. He is one of many....

So there are all these new folks out there working, or putzing around, and they haven't paid their dues in the traditional ways. Still, some of the ideas are good ones, and one needs to be careful before declaring any art form, or genre, as being invalid.

I think that those with the ability and experience to make photographs that are "deeper" can point the way... Of course, that's my own bias, I think life ought to be about discovering our own humanity and expressing it. Much of life appears to be about commodity, and I try and avoid it. Still it seeps in... and all I can do is talk to one person at a time about what's possible.

I recently spoke to another photographer (someone here less experienced than myself), who pressed me on what I was talking about. I recounted a story about a photograph that stopped me in my tracks, made my jaw drop, as I stood there not breathing for some time. I was able to explain that this is what I was after, and cared little for the commercial. He got it. It took 4 conversations, but he got it nonetheless, and I am certain his photography will get better over time as he considers how to approach new images.

There is a lot of work to do. I have a cold at the moment, and am sort of delirious. I don't want anyone to take this in the wrong way, or to imagine that I am being pedantic. I think there are a lot of good photographers here, and yes, there is a lot of work to do for all of us.... our culture is hurting and those that have a clue need to help those that don't. We can't all move to Canada.


Lenny

Darin Boville
11-Nov-2012, 23:22
>>We can't all move to Canada.<<

Weird. For reasons I'm not sure of I though *you* were in Canada. Looks like you are only an hour or two away!

--Darin

Brian C. Miller
12-Nov-2012, 00:10
Since I have been a member there has been a steady downward spiral in the forum's value to the large format community. In fact there is no real community at all: the forum is dominated by a small handful of professional bloggers that essentially live on the internet 24/7.

Would any of the members here who are professional bloggers please post a link to your blog? The pros only, please. Yes, the ones who derive their primary income from the advertising revenue on their blog sites. Day jobs don't count.


They are certainly not photographers for photography demands time – especially large format film photography – and those guys are clearly not putting their time into photography.

So we are to judge the quality of their post not by the words contained therein, but by the images posted to the forum? Some of the old hands on the forum don't actually have a lot scanned for posting. But I still value their contribution to people asking questions. That's important.

Lenny Eiger
12-Nov-2012, 00:12
>>We can't all move to Canada.<<

Weird. For reasons I'm not sure of I though *you* were in Canada. Looks like you are only an hour or two away!

--Darin


Come and visit!

Lenny

Bill_1856
12-Nov-2012, 01:23
Exactly who do you have in mind?

Ken Lee
12-Nov-2012, 06:25
"very few, if any at all, truly accomplished photographers contribute to this site. And those that did, or do, quickly leave."

As a relative newcomer to the forum, I'd like to know who some of those photographers were. Can we still read their contributions ?

Greg Miller
12-Nov-2012, 07:06
Excerpted from a post in the Classified:

"...But the reaction that it generated from a couple of relatively new and unknown posters (imposters?) illustrates a reason why very few, if any at all, truly accomplished photographers contribute to this site. And those that did, or do, quickly leave. Even the Forum's founder has stopped posting to it and many of those that do post don't even shoot film much less large format.

Since I have been a member there has been a steady downward spiral in the forum's value to the large format community. In fact there is no real community at all: the forum is dominated by a small handful of professional bloggers that essentially live on the internet 24/7. They are certainly not photographers for photography demands time – especially large format film photography – and those guys are clearly not putting their time into photography. They may be classified as an internet chat room photographer but a photographer they are clearly not. And the problem with that is that style of photographer fails to grow – they simply don't evolve in photography as one does when actively engaged with it – and as a result are a bad example to hold up to those coming into the hobby/profession; bad pennies so to speak.

Contributing to this forum bring to mind something a famous bluesman once said to me: “If you find something that you like, keep it to yourself.”

Thomas

You have more posts per day here than I do. Does that make me a better photographer than you?

BrianShaw
12-Nov-2012, 07:43
You claim there is no real community? Codswallop!

I have no idea what this means... but I totally agree! :D

BrianShaw
12-Nov-2012, 07:47
"very few, if any at all, truly accomplished photographers contribute to this site. And those that did, or do, quickly leave."

As a relative newcomer to the forum, I'd like to know who some of those photographers were. Can we still read their contributions ?

Maybe he's refering to JorgeG? :o

jnanian
12-Nov-2012, 08:20
i think all the famous people use aliases so we wouldn't have any idea
who they are anyways

BrianShaw
12-Nov-2012, 08:22
I know that's what I'm doing!

Mike Anderson
12-Nov-2012, 11:07
i think all the famous people use aliases so we wouldn't have any idea
who they are anyways

My real name is Cindy Sherman.

Kirk Gittings
12-Nov-2012, 11:14
My real name is Cindy Sherman.

Wow! Great opportunity.

Cindy, what happened to your career?

ROL
12-Nov-2012, 11:15
There seems to be some confusion here about the OP's quote (kvetch). I was under the impression he was quoting from someone else in classified. If his intent was to provoke discussion rather than have it ascribed to himself, it would have been more clear to provide a link.


Other than that, responding to this sensitivity seems to be an exercise in sadomasochism. With that in mind:


forum nutjobs.
GUILTY!


I just try to skip the riff-raff.
Found out. :o


Some people are on my ignore list.
I'd be surprised if any of my posts are still visible. :rolleyes:


I come here quite a bit but I usually avoid posting since anything written is immediately contradicted.
Coward.


There are some aggro people here.
see above.


That said, there are some nice ones too and that makes it worth visiting.
f'ed up in reverse, again. ;)


Lots of experts that never make a photo or talk like they are the bomb but their photos suck.
The only thing worse than people who never post their work is those that do.



P.S. My number one pet peeve? Nutjobs who parse. :p

Brian C. Miller
12-Nov-2012, 11:32
My real name is Cindy Sherman.

This American Life: Be Careful Who You Pretend to Be (http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/120/be-careful-who-you-pretend-to-be)

Mike Anderson
12-Nov-2012, 13:14
Wow! Great opportunity.

Cindy, what happened to your career?

I'm still big. It's the pictures that got small.

eddie
13-Nov-2012, 05:19
on the forum's value?

see here:

http://www.valuate.com/

is is valued at $5!

Peter Lewin
13-Nov-2012, 06:57
So far the post that resonated the most with me was Welly's positive take on the Forum. I suspect that part of the reason for a number of complaints is that in any open forum you get a wide variety of members, with many different goals and experiences.

Speaking for myself, I watch/use the forum for a number of reasons, and the order of priority probably changes at any particular time:
(1) Entertainment: I'm retired, photography is a hobby (and has been, for at least 40 years), so it is fun to look at the site simply to see what has been posted recently;
(2) Information: whenever I have posted a specific question, be it on chemistry or scanning, etc., I have received useful responses, and I have learned even more from other people's questions and answers;
(3) Inspiration: I find the "Post Your Images" sub-forum a great place to see what others are doing, and to try and get ideas or motivation for myself.

On the other hand, if I was looking purely for professional networking, or consistent museum-grade photography, I guess I would be disappointed. But for me this is a hobby, and for "great photography" I have purchased prints from far better photographers than I mixed in with my own work on my walls, and at least three shelves worth of photography books (primarily monographs of works I admire), so neither of these is my reason for being part of the forum community.

Bottom line, large format film photography is a pretty small niche, we should be happy that this forum exists at all, and I for one find that it functions very well.

ROL
13-Nov-2012, 10:08
on the forum's value?

see here:

http://www.valuate.com/

is is valued at $5!

Excellent! One aspect of the forum's value is the interface of a basically non digital medium with the unavoidable and necessary digital realm. Case in point, the link given above. I can now say without question and absolute certainty that all here are simply wasting their time. My site, thusly valued at $70, is worth 14 times – yes, over one full order of magnitude greater than this one! The internet has declared it and it is so!!!


FYI: My two other domains, one brand new, and the other undeveloped under my own name, are both apparently worthless. Personally, I am not even a blip on the internet (:(), while my photography site rules (:D).

ghostcount
13-Nov-2012, 10:57
on the forum's value?

see here:

http://www.valuate.com/

is is valued at $5!

www.eddiegunks.com = $0

Sorry bro, had to do it. I was trying to see if they accounted for all the lens you own. :)

Greg Miller
13-Nov-2012, 11:05
Excellent! One aspect of the forum's value is the interface of a basically non digital medium with the unavoidable and necessary digital realm. Case in point, the link given above. I can now say without question and absolute certainty that all here are simply wasting their time. My site, thusly valued at $70, is worth 14 times – yes, over one full order of magnitude greater than this one! The internet has declared it and it is so!!!


FYI: My two other domains, one brand new, and the other undeveloped under my own name, are both apparently worthless. Personally, I am not even a blip on the internet (:(), while my photography site rules (:D).

My site is worth $570. any takers? ;)

Frank Petronio
13-Nov-2012, 11:41
If I were the Greg Miller the golfer then maybe....

Mike Anderson
13-Nov-2012, 11:48
Excellent! One aspect of the forum's value is the interface of a basically non digital medium with the unavoidable and necessary digital realm. Case in point, the link given above. I can now say without question and absolute certainty that all here are simply wasting their time. My site, thusly valued at $70, is worth 14 times – yes, over one full order of magnitude greater than this one! The internet has declared it and it is so!!!


That being the case, I think your opinion here should count more than owners of less valuable domain names.

Greg Miller
13-Nov-2012, 12:11
If I were the Greg Miller the golfer then maybe....

You must be confusing me with my twin brother Johnny. usually people confuse me with my father Glen.

BrianShaw
13-Nov-2012, 12:32
usually people confuse me with my father Glen.

psst... your father, Alton, spelled his name, Glenn, with two n's.

Greg Miller
13-Nov-2012, 12:52
psst... your father, Alton, spelled his name, Glenn, with two n's.

Doh! I never use his name. I just call him Dadd.

welly
13-Nov-2012, 16:22
on the forum's value?

see here:

http://www.valuate.com/

is is valued at $5!

Over $2000 here! http://www.urlappraisal.net/search.php?textSearch=largeformatphotography.info&searchSubmit=Appraise

ROL
13-Nov-2012, 16:25
My site is worth $570. any takers? ;)

Killjoy.

ROL
13-Nov-2012, 16:30
That being the case, I think your opinion here should count more than owners of less valuable domain names.

It doesn't? Hmmmm... wait just one minute... see third quote/response: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?96730-On-the-Forum-s-Value&p=953045#post953045

rdenney
13-Nov-2012, 19:41
Nice troll. As those who go to meetings say, when you have a finger pointed at someone else, you have three pointing back at you.

They also say take what you need and leave the rest.

The problem of a club for the few is that you have to keep it private. Now, how to do that?

Rick "suspecting this has little to do with what was actually written in the OP" Denney

Doug Herta
13-Nov-2012, 22:22
I'm still big. It's the pictures that got small.

Oh - So you are really Norma Desmond pretending to be Cindy Sherman.... Ready for your close up?

Mark Sawyer
14-Nov-2012, 23:59
"On the Forum's Value "



What is the value of conversing with others on a common interest?

hoffy
15-Nov-2012, 01:27
I saw this thread and as a new member, I thought to myself "why bother being involved".

But then again, those of us who use film are in the VAST minority and those of you* who shoot LF are in an even SMALLER MINORITY, that the more people involved and the more the word gets out there, the better off the film and Large Format community is.

But then again, if you want a small exclusive club, well, the last person can turn off the lights..


*I say You, as I am not an owner of a LF camera - I am in the 'borrowed a camera and trying it out phase'....maybe I am the type of member that the OP is talking about?

eddie
15-Nov-2012, 04:52
Excellent! One aspect of the forum's value is the interface of a basically non digital medium with the unavoidable and necessary digital realm. Case in point, the link given above. I can now say without question and absolute certainty that all here are simply wasting their time. My site, thusly valued at $70, is worth 14 times – yes, over one full order of magnitude greater than this one! The internet has declared it and it is so!!!


FYI: My two other domains, one brand new, and the other undeveloped under my own name, are both apparently worthless. Personally, I am not even a blip on the internet , while my photography site rules .

yeah but look at me.....::p


www.eddiegunks.com = $0

Sorry bro, had to do it. I was trying to see if they accounted for all the lens you own.

well my "friend" :cool: at my listed site www.wetplatecollodion.com is worth $470 and www.wetplatephotography.com is worth $370....both i own.....!!!! SEE BELOW


Over $2000 here! http://www.urlappraisal.net/search.php?textSearch=largeformatphotography.info&searchSubmit=Appraise

now, i plan on using welly's site from now on.....i like what they are saying more! from there:

www.wetplatecollodion.com is worth $2306.20 and www.wetplatephotography.com is worth $3199.30 i am rich! off to e bay to sell some domains....

so ghost boy....:p:p ......

Eric Rose
15-Nov-2012, 09:10
What's Canada got to do with it? I must have missed something.

Scott Davis
15-Nov-2012, 13:26
Ok- that's wild - according to Valuate, my personal site The Flying Camera is $610, and URL Appraisal puts it at $2506.74. I'm wondering how they ever came up with such precise appraisals. $2506.74??? Yeah, I'm going to list it for exactly that much... NOT. My blog, being part of Wordpress, is valued at $1.11M. But somehow I don't think Wordpress is going to sell their domain at anything resembling that number.

QT Luong
15-Nov-2012, 19:33
Since the OP mentioned me, here's a few facts:

I don't participate anymore actively in this forum, nor do I shoot most of my work in LF, however I am posting here more than in all other forums combined.

I've talked personally to some of the most recognized photographers working today. They told me that at some point in their careers, they found the forum to be useful, even if they didn't post themselves.

I have been offered up to mid five figures for selling the site. I declined out of respect for the forum charter and the work of volunteer moderators.

QT Luong
15-Nov-2012, 19:39
FYI http://www.urlappraisal.net thinks that terragalleria.com is 1 year old, has 0 "Inlinks" and PR 0. Credibility took a hit :-)

Sal Santamaura
15-Nov-2012, 23:34
...I have been offered up to mid five figures for selling the site. I declined out of respect for the forum charter and the work of volunteer moderators.My deepest thanks to you for that decision and the moderators for their extraordinary efforts.

Preston
16-Nov-2012, 18:45
My deepest thanks to you for that decision and the moderators for their extraordinary efforts.

I'll add my thanks, too.

I've learned a great deal here. So, my thanks to you all!

--P

Merg Ross
16-Nov-2012, 22:50
Since the OP mentioned me, here's a few facts:

I don't participate anymore actively in this forum, nor do I shoot most of my work in LF, however I am posting here more than in all other forums combined.

I've talked personally to some of the most recognized photographers working today. They told me that at some point in their careers, they found the forum to be useful, even if they didn't post themselves.

I have been offered up to mid five figures for selling the site. I declined out of respect for the forum charter and the work of volunteer moderators.


QT, this seems like an appropriate time to thank you for making this forum possible over many years. I have learned a lot the last decade from the forum, made some friends, and tried to contribute from a historical perspective. I receive the occasional personal message of appreciation in that regard.

Perhaps the relevance of the forum has been somewhat cheapened by a plethora of ego driven contributors offering suspect factual information, and in some case, preferring battle to art. However, most likely, it will continue to provide a place for those seeking beneficial information, both technical and historical, while engaging in civil dialogue.

A handshake, also, to the moderators for a job well done.

Regards,
Merg

JMB
17-Nov-2012, 05:53
My real name is Cindy Sherman.


Like that's impossible. I'm Cindy Sherman. And oh, yeah, well, right, about my career. Well, like, I found out that there is good money in, like, color digital posters.

RichardSperry
17-Nov-2012, 07:51
Both you Cindy's are not welcome here.

We all know you shoot Medium Format.

Begone!

SpeedGraphicMan
19-Nov-2012, 14:02
I believe this forum has a great deal of merit and value.

Whenever I stumble into a roadblock or have an occasional head scratcher, the subscribers of this site usually help in a big way.

Unfortunately, as with any online forum, there are those who adopt a Holier-Than-Thou attitude.
I feel that this serves only to promote their self-inflated egos and is not constructive in any manner.

However, if you scrape the scum off the top of the developer, most of the stuff underneath is still good.

Compared to a few other online forums, this one is golden...

ROL
19-Nov-2012, 19:14
However, if you scrape the scum off the top of the developer, most of the stuff underneath is still good.

Time to toss your developer, man. :rolleyes:

Mike Anderson
22-Nov-2012, 22:32
This forum is very useful and there's really no substitute for its unique blend of shared wide ranging knowledge and focus on the artistic and literate aspects of photography. Anyone that floats around the various photography forums on the net knows that there's nothing else like this on the web, and credit is due to the mods and founder. You know who you are.

This thing is working pretty well and I'm thankful for it.

tgtaylor
27-Dec-2012, 20:39
It's interesting to note that Forum participation increased by at least 50% since this thread first appeared in November. In the years that I have been a member, participation ran about 50% of that on Aug. Now its running neck to neck with apug. For example there are 869 online on Aug and close to 700 on LF. Barring any evidence to the contrary, I'll have to take the credit for the sudden and spectacular increase.

But the Forum still lacks stimulating discussion on a regular basis: too many threads are still unbearably frivolous. Let's have more inspiring discussions on photography.

Thomas

mandoman7
27-Dec-2012, 21:18
I would set up a requirement that an image be posted for every 5 posts, just to make sure it stays on topic.

Iluvmyviewcam
28-Dec-2012, 07:32
Forums help out a lot, at least for me. I don't get all the answers, but I do get some. Sure, famous paople are too busy to do forums. But if the alternative is no forums, I'd rather stick with forums than not.

Iluvmyviewcam
28-Dec-2012, 07:46
It's interesting to note that Forum participation increased by at least 50% since this thread first appeared in November. In the years that I have been a member, participation ran about 50% of that on Aug. Now its running neck to neck with apug. For example there are 869 online on Aug and close to 700 on LF. Barring any evidence to the contrary, I'll have to take the credit for the sudden and spectacular increase.

But the Forum still lacks stimulating discussion on a regular basis: too many threads are still unbearably frivolous. Let's have more inspiring discussions on photography.

Thomas

When a forum is public, you have to take all comers and get gems as well as trash. I use the new posts feature and scan what content interests me.

Ralph Barker
28-Dec-2012, 09:20
. . . Barring any evidence to the contrary, I'll have to take the credit for the sudden and spectacular increase.



Interesting conclusion. I thought it was the result of stellar administration. ;)

Greg Miller
28-Dec-2012, 09:33
But the Forum still lacks stimulating discussion on a regular basis: too many threads are still unbearably frivolous. Let's have more inspiring discussions on photography.

Thomas

It's interesting to note that since you created this thread, the threads you have started are about the minimum aperture of a lens, storing a lens, purchasing a lens board, bellows draw for a specific lens, and flattening paper. If you would like to see improvement in the ratio between frivolous discussions and inspiring discussions on photography, you may want to consider being an active participant in that change.

BrianShaw
28-Dec-2012, 11:27
Interesting conclusion. I thought it was the result of stellar administration. ;)

After getting a 5-day "time out" I know the only reason I returned is because of the magnificent influence of tgtaylor. :D :cool:

Richard M. Coda
28-Dec-2012, 13:13
sounds like something a professional critic would say... and we all know about critics! ;)

gleaf
28-Dec-2012, 23:01
Value..

The hundreds of genuine efforts to assist and teach far outweigh the few that may annoy.

tgtaylor
29-Dec-2012, 09:20
Interesting conclusion. I thought it was the result of stellar administration. ;)

Nope. In fact one of the moderators had posted an analysis showing that participation had actually declined in recent years.

tgtaylor
29-Dec-2012, 09:39
It's interesting to note that since you created this thread, the threads you have started are about the minimum aperture of a lens, storing a lens, purchasing a lens board, bellows draw for a specific lens, and flattening paper. If you would like to see improvement in the ratio between frivolous discussions and inspiring discussions on photography, you may want to consider being an active participant in that change.

And each of those threads pertained to a real question that I had at the time and was not a troll for posts. In fact the minumun aperature thread was quite interesting (I thought) and generated 15 replys. I did need a #3 Toyo lensboard and ended up getting one from Adorama. The question regarding the bellows draw was (for me) a significant one since I was debating purchasing either a 450mm Nikkor or a 480mm apo-ronar and they Toyo-View website seeemed to indicate that the standard bellowws wouldn't support the latter. I ended-up buying an absolutely mint ronar that was never even mounted and came with the mounting screw in place! Now owning 3 dedicated 8x10 lens on 6" boards, I needed some way to store them and wasn't aware that photobackpacker sold 8x10 lens cases. I bought one!

The last 5 of my threads compare quite favorably to your last 5 and if you looked at my 7th on the 75th Anniversary of the Golden Gate Bridge, you will have found a link to free electronic download of the Exhibition catalog.

Since you have made an issue of my posts, I am posting below the last 5 images that I have posted. Have you posted any images on this forum?

tgtaylor
29-Dec-2012, 09:39
Untitled, 2012

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8343/8285799865_2dc9730057_z.jpg

6x7 Pentax camera, 120mm soft focus lens, Fuji Acros, Ilford MG Art.

Thomas


Pt. Reyes

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8341/8229100286_5703819a8a_z.jpg

Thomas

tgtaylor
29-Dec-2012, 09:41
The Golden Gate Bridge @ 75

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8463/8140351545_7d184ff6c0_z.jpg

Toyo 810G, 360mm Schneider Symmer-S, Delta 100. Salt print on 140-Lb Fabriano Aristrico toned in Gold and Platinum.

Thomas


Well, here goes another salt print on the wrong side of Bergger Cot 320:

Hospital (Ruins). Camp Reynolds, Angel Island, California

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8187/8121163071_396f78e3bb.jpg

This is a pre-World War I hospital which probably saw service during the Spanish American War or possibly earlier. For further information on Camp Reynolds and Angel see http://www.militarymuseum.org/CpReynolds.html

Toyo 45CF, 150mm Lens, Fuji Acros, foggy day. Toned with gold borax.

Thomas

GO GIANTS!!![


Red's Java House, San Francisco

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7217/7169878479_23f6a83d33_z.jpg

A fixture on the San Francisco waterfront since the 1920's. If the plan to build a waterfront stadium for the Warriors basketball team goes thru, this structure will go.

Toyo-View 810G, 360mm Lens, Delta 100. Printed as a Van Dyke on Fabriano Aristico EW HP paper.

Thomas

Greg Miller
29-Dec-2012, 10:11
And each of those threads pertained to a real question that I had at the time and was not a troll for posts. In fact the minumun aperature thread was quite interesting (I thought) and generated 15 replys. I did need a #3 Toyo lensboard and ended up getting one from Adorama. The question regarding the bellows draw was (for me) a significant one since I was debating purchasing either a 450mm Nikkor or a 480mm apo-ronar and they Toyo-View website seeemed to indicate that the standard bellowws wouldn't support the latter. I ended-up buying an absolutely mint ronar that was never even mounted and came with the mounting screw in place! Now owning 3 dedicated 8x10 lens on 6" boards, I needed some way to store them and wasn't aware that photobackpacker sold 8x10 lens cases. I bought one!

The last 5 of my threads compare quite favorably to your last 5 and if you looked at my 7th on the 75th Anniversary of the Golden Gate Bridge, you will have found a link to free electronic download of the Exhibition catalog.

Since you have made an issue of my posts, I am posting below the last 5 images that I have posted. Have you posted any images on this forum?

My point was a lack of "more inspiring discussions on photography" on your part. Where are those "more inspiring discussions on photography" that you said you want to see? I just find it odd when people complain about the content of posts and expect that somehow it is other people's responsibilities to make it happen. If you want "more inspiring discussions on photography", then make it happen.

Kirk Gittings
29-Dec-2012, 15:35
It's interesting to note that Forum participation increased by at least 50% since this thread first appeared in November. In the years that I have been a member, participation ran about 50% of that on Aug. Now its running neck to neck with apug. For example there are 869 online on Aug and close to 700 on LF. Barring any evidence to the contrary, I'll have to take the credit for the sudden and spectacular increase.

But the Forum still lacks stimulating discussion on a regular basis: too many threads are still unbearably frivolous. Let's have more inspiring discussions on photography.

Thomas

I'm assuming this is a joke right? # of members online varies tremendously by time of day and day of the week with the high point way back in 2007. I have seen it vary on any given day from about 50 in the wee hours of the morning when the US members are snoozing to around 800 when we are all awake and and at our computers in the afternoon. Real growth is more apparent in "Active Members" ie members who actively participate and have made at least one post in the last 6 months. That has remained fairly constant, hovering around 2700-2800 for some time after a high point in 2010.

rdenney
30-Dec-2012, 17:33
Since you have made an issue of my posts, I am posting below the last 5 images that I have posted. Have you posted any images on this forum?

Number of images isn't the issue. Not everyone does work that can be shown, or that they want to show. That does not disqualify them from participating, or even from doing so helpfully. Nor does it preclude the sorts of intellectual discussions you suggest. We can't even define good photography when we try to, let alone use it as the basis for judgments of a participant's value to the community.

The equipment threads you started were like all of them--they were important to you as the OP at the time. That doesn't mean they weren't in the "yet another..." category for someone else.

And there are those who get really annoyed by the navel-gazing intellectual discussions, too.

My own analysis of the participation data indicates the growth has been modest, but the average active poster writes more than used to be the case. There is nothing to support any particular conclusion, except that the forum remains healthy.

But the advice to start the sorts of threads you would like to read is always worth following.

Rick "please don't make it personal" Denney

Bill Burk
30-Dec-2012, 18:14
It's a paradox that I spend way more time on this special interest forum than I spend actually photographing or printing. When you consider it takes me about an hour to think of and write a post, it's a serious time sink.

It'll be my New Year's resolution to do more camera and darkroom work, so I will be able to contribute more meaningfully.

But I've always been this way. I can plan and scheme all year long for one week's outing with camera. Then I can spend several months developing and printing. Before the Internet came I would actually have more backlog than I have now.

p.s. Thomas, I liked your Reds Java House the first time I saw it. Should have said so.

Greg Miller
30-Dec-2012, 19:56
Bill - there is no need to feel that you need to contribute more meaningfully. Everyone contributes in their own unique way. And it is all valuable.

Thomas was trying to be clever in switching the topic from inspiring discussions on photography to image sharing because he doesn't think people like me who no longer shoot much LF have a place here. As if I forgot everything I know about LF when the nature of my photography projects dictated that I use a more efficient format (digital). The truth is I found this forum to be a great resource when I started with LF, and never found a reason to stop participating. I gained a lot in the beginning, and I always try to give back, in time, more than I take. If everyone gives more than they take, then the community will flourish.

The true value of this forum is the diversity of knowledge and perspectives of all the members. That includes everyone from the "never ever's" to the most experienced. But that also means that there will always be more threads that aren't of interest to a specific person than those that are. Everyone's wants and needs will be vastly different. It is up to each of us to give and take from the forum what we can and ignore the rest.

Bill Burk
30-Dec-2012, 20:50
Bill - there is no need to feel that you need to contribute more meaningfully. Everyone contributes in their own unique way. And it is all valuable.

Thanks, I'll still make my New Year's resolution to shoot and print more.

rdenney
30-Dec-2012, 20:51
It's a paradox that I spend way more time on this special interest forum than I spend actually photographing or printing. When you consider it takes me about an hour to think of and write a post, it's a serious time sink.

It'll be my New Year's resolution to do more camera and darkroom work, so I will be able to contribute more meaningfully.

But I've always been this way. I can plan and scheme all year long for one week's outing with camera. Then I can spend several months developing and printing. Before the Internet came I would actually have more backlog than I have now.

p.s. Thomas, I liked your Reds Java House the first time I saw it. Should have said so.

I'm the same way. But even when I have a period of activity, it's not that much activity. I can spend time on this forum when making photographs is not an option--sitting in hotel rooms at night, taking a mental break during the workday, checking out posts using Tapatalk while sitting in an airport lounge, sitting on a bench in the mall waiting for my wife to finish shopping, and so on. Participating allows me to keep my mental hand in the game, so that when I do get to do some work, I've filled my head with concepts and examples to inform the choices I make. Back in my ill-spent youth I raced cars for a time, and track time was so precious and rare for those of us on the lowest ranks of that sport that it was a requirement to rehearse the moves mentally off the track. I see forum participation as a means of preparing for those opportunities for getting that big camera out into the field. It's also a means of expressing things I've spent 40 years learning, though the state of my knowledge should be well-reflected by the fact that I don't post in a high percentage of threads I read, and I don't read a high percentage of threads that are started. I suspect that is true for most folks.

Rick "whose backlog is enormous, but inaccessible during most times of forum participation" Denney

Bill Burk
12-Jan-2013, 09:32
tgtaylor, I want to point out a priceless post of yours.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?68798-Why-print-film-rebate&p=649219&viewfull=1#post649219

This one post sunk in for me and I consciously think of it when composing landscapes... "include a little lagniappe"... for me it makes better photographs.

Michael Alpert
13-Jan-2013, 10:01
As a New Englander, I had not encountered the word "lagniappe" before. But the application to photography is clear. I think all good photographs include some quality beyond the image's subject matter. It's a gift, and it's a value that is somewhat indefinable. A lagniappe.