Alt Process Questions : Mixing Chemicals from scratch

[Cletus]

So I'm diving head first into some alt process, specifically Kallitypes, trying to understand the chemical processes on the road to pt/pd printing. There is sparse little info on Kallitypes on the net and even less on basic chemistry and DIY solutions, sensitizers and other necessaries.

I really like the idea of buying bulk chemicals from places like Artcraft, as opposed to some of the (often much) more expensive prepared solutions from B&S and PF.

I can find a few instructions for making stuff like Ferric Oxalate from the web, but much of what I can find assumes a pretty solid base in chemistry, which I ain't got! It would sure be nice to know how to end up with a 20% solution of Fe. Ox. from a few germs of the powder, but I have no idea how much powder to add to how much water to get...what? Same for stuff like Silver Nitrate and platinum/palladium salts. Potassium Chloroplatinate? For example.

I sent a message to Carl Weese, who ostensibly makes his own sensitizers for pt/pd, but I do not have high hopes he'll reply with all his secrets in the kind of detail I'm needing!

Has anyone found any kind of recipes for this type stuff? I have a copy of the Darkroom Cookbook on the way, but I have my doubts whether it will go into sufficient detail. Any comments?

[imagedowser]

The Book of Alternative Processes, Second Edition By Christopher James

[sanking]

"So I'm diving head first into some alt process, specifically Kallitypes, trying to understand the chemical processes on the road to pt/pd printing. There is sparse little info on Kallitypes on the net and even less on basic chemistry and DIY solutions, sensitizers and other necessaries."

If you have not seen it already please have a look at my article on kallitype at http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Kallitype/kallitype.html

Sandy

[Erik Larsen]

Hi Cletus,
It's not as daunting as you might think to get the solutions you need for the alt processes. You will need a gram scale accurate to a tenth of a gram. A hot plate stirrer can help but isn't absolutely necessary. To get your percentages is pretty simple. For your kallitypes and a 20% solution of FO just mix 20 grams of ferric oxalate with 100mls of distilled water. It might help to add a little oxallic acid as well to help the FO go into solution. Thats all there is to it. For the silver nitrate 10% solution add 10 grams of silver nitrate to 100mls of distilled water, simple as that. I use a 20% solution of citric acid or edta and sodium sulfphite for clearing baths and a Sodium Citrate for developer. If you are not aware, there are a number of articles of alt processes here http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/articles.html#All

I haven't bothered mixing my own pt/pd solutions from dry chemicals so I won't comment on that. I buy them pre mixed from B + S. The ferric oxalate is the same but a 27% solution instead of 20%. You can make your own pottassium oxalate developer or use
various other developer. Pt/pd is much less involved than kallitype with the drawback being it is expensive to experiment compared to kallitype.

Jump in head first and you will soon find it isn't as overwhelming as you might think.
good luck
erik

Edit-I must be the slowest typer around and Sandy posted before I could finish my reply. Look at his article and you should have a good basis to get started.

[Vaughn]

B&S sells Ferric oxalate in powder form, also.

The advantage of learning a process with pre-made chemicals is consistency and reducing the variables until one has the mechanics of the process down and learns how to manipulate the variables of the process.

The disadvantage of using pre-mixed chemicals is that one does not get the opportunity to really mess up and perhaps find a different path to the desired image.

Solid? Any kind of base in chemistry or cooking will do. Making solutions to a specific concentration from powders is based on weight. A milliliter (ml) of water weighs 1 gram. So a 20% solution of Ferric oxalate is: 20 grams of the Ferric oxalate(FO) powder in 100 ml of water (distilled), or if you want to make up half the volume, 10gr of FO and 50 ml of water.

[Cletus]

Thank you Sandy and Eric - and imagedowser - for your advice and recommendations.

Sandy, I did search and read many of your articles about the web and I thought I had found everything on Kallitypes, but I missed the great article you just referenced. Thanks!

Erik - THANK YOU for your clarification on the "percent solution" issue. I didn't realize it was a simple as that - i.e. 1:10 g/ml of powder to water makes a 10% solution. (Sometimes I miss the forest for the trees!).

I finally, this morning managed to make a few semi-successful Kallitypes with a 4x5 negative that look more like what I would expect them to look like. I'm afraid one of my earlier errors was to coat my paper the night before and dry in less than total darkness. Those prints were a complete failure and I couldn't understand why. Also, I have found that the sequence of solutions after exposure makes quite a difference too.

The good prints went like this: Expose; develop (B&S "Black Developer") which I believe to be Rochelle Salts and Borax immediately following exposure; then rinse and clear in EDTA; then Gold tone; then fix for 20 secs in Sodium Thiosulfate; then final wash. Seems to be a workable method, but I'm getting there!

An earlier attempt was" develop; then fix; then wash; then clear; which didn't seem to work too well. The fix immediately after develop seemed to severely bleach out the image to almost nothing.

Next I plan to try to make my own Ferric Oxalate and Silver Nitrate and eventually pt/pd solutions. Can anyone comment on the effectiveness of Potassium Oxalate as a Kallitype developer? I will also try Sodium Citrate.

[Cletus]

Vaughn - Thanks for the further clarification on the "power into solution" problem. I see from Erik's comment that it is, indeed, as simple as you say. I had no idea! And I do agree with the notion of using B&S premixed chemicals while learning, which I intend to do until I run out, then I'll try mixing my own. Probably mostly Ferric Oxalate and some of the other common stuff that tends to be expensive. Maybe pt/pd salts later.

[Vaughn]

I am not sure of Kallitypes, but some processes won't hold for too long was coated. Even in the dark they can start to degrade. Or if not actually degrading, then changing. Material coated 8 hours ago (when compared to material recently coated with the same chemical mix) might produce prints that have a slightly different contrast or might even print darker or lighter. Drying time after coating is just one of the variables one deals with...often the moisture level is an important variable that can affect printing speed and the end result. Too much moisture on the paper in cyanotype can ruin an attempt. In Ziatypes (a type of platinum printing), not enough moisture in the paper caused problems. So keeping things realitively consistent will help.

I found keeping good notes helped. That way when I got a good print I could figure out how I did it -- and do it again!

[Cletus]

Yes, I have a good hygrometer and intend to pay much more attention to humidity, as it definitely appears to have a big impact. And a Big 10-4 on the taking notes! Something I've never been very good at or disciplined about, but I have a journal opened and started just for this and so far have been diligently jotting down notes about everything and details of every print I've made so far. I'm hoping I can get into the habit of consistently taking notes as I believe this will be on of the keys to success for me. I even went in the darkroom and made a note about the bit from you and Eric, about 1g powder = 1ml water, mixing percentages, etc.

[Vaughn]

I taught myself carbon printing from a magazine article. After keep notes in a notebook for the first year or so, I finally just made a form on Excel and just filled out as I made the tissue and another form that I used for when I printed.

When I taught myself platinum/palladium printing, I made forms right away for that -- so in theory, I can look at a print, and then quickly go back to how I made it (paper, sensitiser/metal mix, developer, time under which UV light, etc). And it is kind of fun to open a form from many years ago to see how one's methods slowly shift to (hopefully) improve one's printing. I have almost 20 years of records for carbon printing and 17 years for pt/pd.