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nimo956
20-Oct-2012, 19:33
Hi All,

I'm so glad I found this site. After years of shooting digital, I'm looking to trade everything in and fully move into LF photography. I've been doing some research, but would like some advice on the bare essentials I need to get started. I know I want a wooden field camera and would like a slightly wider lens around 120mm or 135mm. My budget is around $4k. Is it best to buy everything new, or should I be looking for used equipment? I need the following:

4x5 camera
120mm or 135mm lens (Schneider or Rodenstock, but what version, there are too many models)
Tripod
Ball Head
Cable Release
Lens Board
Dark Cloth
Loupe
Light Meter
Film Holders
Maybe some filters

First, am I missing anything? Second, what do you recommend for the big ticket items? Thanks for your help.

Kodachrome25
20-Oct-2012, 19:55
I got into LF this past Spring to get the best results in my darkroom for fine art printing.

I went with a brand new Chamonix 45N-2:
http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/45.html

For the money, I can't imagine doing better. You rarely see these used because people who own them really are quite satisfied with them. As for lenses. I use 7 of them with a range of 65mm to 350mm. My favorite lens is the 135mm 5.6 Apo Sironar. I have it mounted on a Chamonix carbon fiber lens board...the combo is as light as it gets.

I also have about 30 film holders including 6 brand new wooden Chamonix holders that are extremely well made and very light. My tripod is a Bogen 190CX Pro with a Acratech GP ball head. I have a few inexpensive 20" cable releases. For a loupe most people recommend a lower power 4-5x but I use a peak 10x since it is really small.

You can get good used wooden field cameras for a few hundred less than a new 45N-2....but it is truly a camera I would have paid twice as much for, it is that good.

Others will chime in I am sure...

Jody_S
20-Oct-2012, 20:01
Hi All,

I'm so glad I found this site. After years of shooting digital, I'm looking to trade everything in and fully move into LF photography. I've been doing some research, but would like some advice on the bare essentials I need to get started. I know I want a wooden field camera and would like a slightly wider lens around 120mm or 135mm. My budget is around $4k. Is it best to buy everything new, or should I be looking for used equipment? I need the following:

4x5 camera
120mm or 135mm lens (Schneider or Rodenstock, but what version, there are too many models)
Tripod
Ball Head
Cable Release
Lens Board
Dark Cloth
Loupe
Light Meter
Film Holders
Maybe some filters

First, am I missing anything? Second, what do you recommend for the big ticket items? Thanks for your help.

4K should buy you top-shelf used gear. If you want to buy new, have fun and do it (someone has to, and it won't be me!); but there is absolutely no need to do so given the care LF photographers take with their gear, and the sheer volume of used gear on the market.

Your list for taking photos is pretty complete. You'll get a lot of comments over what's best, from cameras to lenses to loupes and dark cloths. A secret: there is very little difference between modern lenses, certainly no difference that you'll see as a beginner. Get whichever one you find for the right price, and don't worry too much about it. Cameras are a matter of personal preferences; you need to know what you're going to shoot and whether you're hiking with it, in a studio, whatever. There are many available cameras for every possible style of shooting. The rest is just standard photo gear; your light meter and filters from your digital work are probably sufficient to get started; if you don't have a light meter, then you'll need to know again what style of shooting you'll be doing.

What are you missing? Are you going to develop yourself, or have a lab do it? What are you going to do with the resulting negs/chromes? Print or scan? Color or B&W? If you're going to hike, you'll need a bag to carry all of this; with LF, this is not a trivial issue. That's pretty much it, far as I can tell. If you're buying used, look for a deal where you can buy someone's entire kit; you'll save a lot of money just on the big ticket items, and you'll probably get a lot of the smaller stuff thrown in for free. Start with Craigslist/Kijiji, there's money to be saved buying locally as well. If you're not sure what something is, come here and ask.

RichardSperry
20-Oct-2012, 20:05
I would recommend buying used.

If it's not for you, you can sell it all and not take much of a depreciation hit.

You may find you want the additional movements of a rail camera, for instance. Or that the focal length you buy is not just right for your work. You may want the rigidity of a metal field camera instead.

You can get that whole lot, mint condition used, for about say $1500. Save the $2500 for a trip to take photos, perhaps.

And you'll need a scanner or 4x5 enlarger setup, $700 or so for scanner new or darkroom stuff used. You will need something to carry it all, as well.

PS, Nikon makes(made) very good LF lenses.

RichardSperry
20-Oct-2012, 20:15
Just followed KC25's link, that is one nice looking camera for $900 new.

joselsgil
20-Oct-2012, 21:26
nimo956,

Before making your purchase, you might want to look into attending a large format workshop. Some workshops have large format cameras for the students to use. Do a search to see if any future workshops are located in your area.

Good luck,

Jose

Mike Anderson
20-Oct-2012, 21:49
Ball Head


I use a ballhead for 4x5 but it doesn't seem optimal. It works, it's rigid and strong enough, but it seems something geared would be better for LF.

John Kasaian
21-Oct-2012, 00:06
Start with something used and in good condition if possible.
As other said, if you decide this isn't for you, you won't take a big financial hit if you decide to sell.
Also, these things are very personal and rather funky. You likely won't know exactly what you want or need until you've messed around with a LF camera for awhile. Once you've figured that out, spend your money on the better for you equipment.
Roughly, you may consider---
4x5 camera---Shen seems to be the price leader. You might find a Tachihara used
Lens---either Schneider or Rodenstock (or Nikon for that matter) The faster the better and condition is everything. Also important is the condition of the shutter, though. Don't rule out single coated glass from the likes of Kodak,Wollensak or Goerz.
Tripod---see what handles the wieght of your camera first. You might get by with an old Tilt-all for around $70. Or maybe not.
Ball Head---wait and see if you really want one.
Cable Release---I like Gepe Pros. Minettes are cool too. They aren't all that expensive so get a new one (or two, they sometimes go into hiding.)
Lens Board---this should come with your camera. If not wooden ones can be made. A box of Krispy Kremes for the wood shop teacher at your local High School might get you a supply.
Dark cloth---home made,instructions are in Steve Simmon's excellent book Using the View Camera
Light Meter---if you want to learn the Zone System you'll want a spot meter like a Pentax. If not, any accurate meter will work.
Loupe---The Fuji seems to work well on a 4x5 ground glass. They come up on ebay every once in awhile.
Film Holders---plastic Liscos or Fidelitys, or Riteways. Buy a stack of them, test for leaks with paper and send any leakers back where you got 'em for an exchange.
Filters---if your lens has threads you can get them used rather cheaply. If not the Lee system works.
Jim at Midwest is a very good guy to deal with.
Most importantly, have fun!

nimo956
21-Oct-2012, 05:15
Thanks everyone for your help. Buying used seems like the way to go. It will sure save me a lot of money, but I always just worry about being able to tell if there are any problems. I think I can find a Shen Hao for like $400-$500. Also, what do people think of the Fujinon CMW 150mm f/5.6? I think I found one for like $250. What questions should I ask about the camera/lens when buying used?

Frank Petronio
21-Oct-2012, 06:32
A Shen for $500 and a Fuji 125 is a great combination. If you can't try it in person, make sure it is returnable. The nice thing about large format gear is that it is mechanically simple and you can safely look at it and use it to determine if there are any issues. If you aren't able to shoot film or use an Instant Film back to test for light leaks, check that the bellows is supple, folded correctly, and not damaged - can also take it into a dark room and shine a high-powered LED flashlight around while you peer inside. Otherwise just manipulate every control, "dry" shoot with it, stick a holder into the back, etc.

While you might pay slightly more, places like KEH and MPEX.com have liberal return policies on good used gear.

Now... my curmudgeony advice. First, overdo it with the tripod and head. Most people go too light and make excuses.

Second, folding wood cameras, while mechanically simple, are still rather complex, Gyro Gearloose type contraptions - some designs are hard for newbies to open up and the controls are often obscured and limited. For a fraction of their cost, you can purchase a metal monorail camera from a precision orientated manufacturer like Sinar, Cambo, Toyo, Arca-Swiss, or Linhof. These will be heavier and bulkier than their wooden counterparts. They will require a more solid tripod and they may not conform to whatever expectations people have for "classic old-timey cameras". But... they are much simpler to actually operate and figure out because they have obvious controls. Movements are unlimited and they are fast and easy to set-up, level and square, zeroed out. And they are rigid and robust, you don't have to baby them. Also they are expandable and systematic, meaning you can buy extensions, bag bellows, and a host of bits and pieces to "build" whatever camera you need. Considering that you can get one for $300, they make great "trainers" and if later on you decide that you prefer to go backing with some ultra-light set-up, you can then get a second really light camera without compromise, leaving the inexpensive monorail for more stable work at home or closer to your car.

If you get into large format you may end up experimenting with several different cameras and formats so don't get too caught up in the initial purchase. Instead do your homework and buy at the right price so if you switch cameras you can resell your old one for a break even price. Once you are a member here for 30 days you'll gain access to this forum's Buy and Sell section - it works pretty well and saves a bit over eBay too.

Next Brian will tell you that my advice is a crock. And I will admit that I started with a pretty wooden camera myself (a Wista, long long ago). They are seductive. But try a professional camera too if you can.

Jim Jones
21-Oct-2012, 07:43
Nimo, your list doesn't include books on LF photography. Buy several -- no one tells it all. A gool library or bookstore lets one sample before buying. After dabbling in LF photography for decades, I still refer to dozens of books on photographs and photographic equipment, technique, and history. Unlike computer monitors, some books also give us an idea of what a photograph should really look like. The right books are one of the best investments in photography.

It is fairly easy to spend tens of thousands of dollars on some new items, such as automobiles, with complete satisfaction. Quality cameras for quality images depend more on the variable abilities and goals of humans. Keep a digital camera for those instances when it is superior to film. Buy an inexpensive basic LF camera, one lens, a good tripod, and the small accessories. Use them as training aids while you are improving your abilities and defining your goals. You may get lucky and never have to upgrade. I still sometimes use my second LF camera, an old Burke & James flatbed bought almost 40 years ago, despite having accumulated a variety of press, field, and monorail cameras since then. My all-time favorite lens for 4x5 is the Kodak Ektar f/7.7 203mm bought for the B&J flatbed. Most of these lenses were made in the 1940s and 1950s, but often do as well as when new, and should do so for many more decades. New quality lenses are better in some ways. A new Mercedes Benz might be better than my Toyota Corolla, but I need neither better lenses nor a better car. Nor did Edward Weston, Eugene Atget, and Mathew Brady.

t0aster
21-Oct-2012, 07:46
I am fairly new to LF myself but I have to agree with Frank. I was able to find quite a deal for a Cambo SC rail camera with 180mm schneider symmar-s with a few extras and a tripod for under 500$ on the 'bay. I love using the Cambo, it is sturdy as a rock, the movements might not ultra precise but they are smooth and lock down tight. The other day my photo prof. brought in his Wista Field camera into class for the kids to mess around with then we took it into a shooting studio and he let everyone shoot some old polaroid 54 he had. After using the field camera, I am extremely happy with my decision to start off with a rail camera. While I'm sure some field cameras are "better" than others, this one lacked the sturdiness, robustness, and rigidity of my Cambo. As for portability, I've had no trouble putting the camera on the tripod and loading a backpack with film holders and dark cloth and carrying the tripod over my shoulder, most times I've been out with it have been about 2hrs at a time which is long enough to traverse some of the local trails or just meander around downtown/campus (I have put foam tubing on the legs of the tripod for a bit more cushion than the metal can provide).

RedSun
21-Oct-2012, 07:46
If you want to learn LF photography, get a metal mono rail 4x5 camera set. You can find it at eBay for a rather complete kid including camera, spare bellows, one or two lenses, and the carry case. It is very important that you learn how the camera movements work. Then take it out to your backyard and take 5 sheets of your kid(s) and pet(s). Decide on how you want the film processed. Then decide on how you want to scan and/or get them printed. Other than the camera, do not spend too much money until you get the prints. Then you can decide on how LF works and where you want to go from there. Hope you do not quit by then. If you want to continue, you have to put more money into use: more lenses, film/print processor, scanner/photo printer, or darkroom setup.

Here is a typical budget:

Camera: $500 with one lens
Accessories: $200 (basic)
More lenses: $500 for two more
Film/print processor (such as Jobo) $500 to $1,000
Scanner: $500 (like Epson V700)
Photo printer: ??? (want a large Epson?? $1,000 for a 7800)
Darkroom: $500 to $1,000

Remember a single LF camera is not LF :eek: It can run you $4,000 to $5,000 easily.

A modern Sinar F1 or F2 is your best bet. It is very durable, marketable and it offers most of the movements. Forget about the very old, vintage and complex cameras now. They require so much care and are not good for beginners.

John Kasaian
21-Oct-2012, 08:10
Keep it simple. One lens is plenty. Your budget allows for a good, clean, used lens in a good shutter. That you can take with you if you decide to move to another camera (and the same goes for the tripod)
Your heart seems settled on a wooden camera, so get a wooden camera. If that's what you enjoy working with---you'll work with it! LF is a hassle on the best of days, and if you don't like the camera you have, thats a good enough excuse to do something other than use it.
My 2-cents anyway (why is there no "cent" symbol on keyboards anymore?)

Jody_S
21-Oct-2012, 08:44
For all of those advising that he ditch his plan to get a wooden folding camera and buy a monorail instead, I would like to say that I had a monorail (actually hybrid, but non-folding) sitting in a box throughout the entire 10-year period I stopped doing photography. I never took a single shot with it, because it was a huge metal monster that I simply couldn't carry anywhere. It looked intimidating. I bought a piece of crap Burke & James and that's never sat on a shelf for more than a couple of weeks. It's light enough that I can stick it in a backpack with 2 lenses and 6 holders, and walk for hours.

Frank Petronio
21-Oct-2012, 09:04
So you're lazy, vote for Obama then.

Jody_S
21-Oct-2012, 09:09
So you're lazy, vote for Obama then.

I'm Canadian. I vote NDP. Yes, they're actual Socialists, not the way the word is used (as a meaningless epithet) in the US. But that's besides the point. If you don't shoot studio, and never plan to, there's little sense in buying a monorail to save $250, IMHO. They just don't do well outside of a studio. And the advice that they're somehow simpler to use doesn't make a lot of sense given what it takes to use a modern dSLR and Photoshop effectively.

RedSun
21-Oct-2012, 09:27
Wooden folding cameras are not good for newbies. The require more cares than they can handle. They are good to use for LF, but not good to learn all the LF movements.

Get a mono rail to learn LF, then decide if what you want to use it for, in studio, backyard, outdoor landscaping, or backpacking???

I can pack my Sinar F2 in a Lightware case and I'm very happy with it. Mono rail is not the best (or not good at all) for backpacking. That is not what it was designed for.

t0aster
21-Oct-2012, 09:50
I'm Canadian. I vote NDP. Yes, they're actual Socialists, not the way the word is used (as a meaningless epithet) in the US. But that's besides the point. If you don't shoot studio, and never plan to, there's little sense in buying a monorail to save $250, IMHO. They just don't do well outside of a studio. And the advice that they're somehow simpler to use doesn't make a lot of sense given what it takes to use a modern dSLR and Photoshop effectively.

I think claiming that rail cameras "don't do well outside of a studio" is nonsensical. I've had no trouble hauling my SC around town or hiking on trails, lots of movements available if I need or want to use them, my rail is plenty long for doing close-up work, and if you're resistant to hauling it around on a tripod they're broken down easily and would fit nicely into most gear bags.

Joseph Dickerson
21-Oct-2012, 09:58
One more voice for learning on a monorail camera. I teach large format/commercial photography on the college level and our students do much better initially working with our Toyo monorails as opposed to the Toyo field cameras we also have in our inventory. They are also a lot less likely to muck up the camera.

Like Frank P., my firstr large format camera was a field camera, a Deardorff in my case, but have owned Tachihara, Shen Hao, Toyo, and have used many others. After a while I came to the conclusion that a Sinar would do everything a little bit better, didn't really weigh all that much more, could be carried in the same back pack (Kelty Redwing) that I used for the field camera(s), and was damn cheap with tons of used accessories available.

I need to point out that while I do a lot andscape/nature photography I don't do overnight packing trips. Moderate day hikes and working not too far from the van is my main method when shooting large format.

A used F1/F2 (you can find the differences on a recent thread on this forum) shouldn't cost more the $500, and a lens around 135mm to 150mm can be found for a couple of hundred. I just picked up a mint Fujinon 125mm for $200.

This forum's home page has links to lots of good information and tutorials about the cameras and the process of shooting large format.

One last caution, I wouldn't get rid of all the digital gear, keep at least a minimal kit for those things that just don't work with large format. You'll soon figure out what those things are.

Take your time, shoot lots, and have fun, that's the best possible way to learn. :cool:

JD

Kodachrome25
21-Oct-2012, 17:27
Newbies need to learn on a monorail camera huh?

Interesting but I am glad I never follow all the amateur photographer armchair experts in the field of which I make my sole living. I bought a field camera first because that is what I was going to use, full stop. I had a Toyo 45CF for a month, cost about $50 more than what the op said he would spend on a Shen Hao.

I then sold it for $150 more than I paid for it, came up with an extra $250 for what I am sticking with, a lightweight, precision 45N-2. Maybe other said "newbies" have time to mess around with monorail training wheels, playing in the somewhat moronic one lens space of pay your dues in front of LFF curmudgeons....I sure as heck don't and my gear has already paid for it self three times over.

When it comes to advice on the Internet, take the good bits that apply to you and discard the parts that don't.

Mike in NY
21-Oct-2012, 17:57
I'm a relatively accomplished digital photographer, with many lenses that range from 17mm to 500mm for my Canon 5DII. I'm just starting out in LF, using two flatbed field cameras, and I've already invested in a full range of lenses. I can't imagine limiting myself to a single lens when I'm already accustomed to the flexibility of a full range of lenses.

AJ Edmondson
21-Oct-2012, 18:07
I second the "buy used" approach... with the economy as it is now there are some great buys to be had. I would go with either a slightly longer or shorter (than 150mm). 120mm is great as is 180mm and get something with as much coverage as you can find as you will probably want to really experiment with extreme movements in the beginning. As noted a good tripod is a must but you might find that the ball-head is not really great with a view camera. Good luck and keep us posted!

Two23
21-Oct-2012, 18:10
I've been shooting 4x5 for about 15 years as a practical Midwestern guy and have some thoughts. I went from a Shen Hao to a Chamonix. The Shen Hao takes photos just as well, but I love the feel of the Chamonix a little better. For "modern" lenses I went with 90/180/300mm. I think a better line up might have been 90/120/240mm, at least for me. I would suggest getting about 10 holders, preferably the all plastic type (suchs as Lisco.) You need a loupe. I use a black t-shirt for a dark cloth, size XXL. One other thing you will find very useful is a scanner such as an Epson v700 or v750. It's about the only way you'll be able to post photos online etc. I actually use it to scan my negs and make prints, using Photoshop. Everything I have for LF was purchased used, either from here or from eBay. There's little sense to buy new unless you have your heart set on something harder to get. One last thing I'll mention is a tripod. Get the best one you can--do not skimp here! I have a Gitzo 1325cf with an AcraTech head which I love. It has never let me down.

Once I got into 4x5, I started buying vintage and historic lenses. I now shoot lenses mainly from the 1850s or 1920s more than I use my modern Copal lenses. I love the vintage look! Can't get that from a digital camera. I still have a Cambo 45nx monorail, but never use it. It's heavy, slow to set up, and not nearly as fun as the Chamonix. In its favor is it's inexpensive, has all the movements you could ever dream of, and can hold some very large & heavy lenses. It's the last camera I have that I would take out on a backpack trip though. THe Chamonix weighs about as much as my Nikon D300 & f2.8 zoom.


Kent in SD

RedSun
21-Oct-2012, 18:25
Newbies need to learn on a monorail camera huh?

Interesting but I am glad I never follow all the amateur photographer armchair experts in the field of which I make my sole living. I bought a field camera first because that is what I was going to use, full stop. I had a Toyo 45CF for a month, cost about $50 more than what the op said he would spend on a Shen Hao.
.......

When it comes to advice on the Internet, take the good bits that apply to you and discard the parts that don't.

Why not? Mono rail is the best thing you can have to learn LF.

For LF, there are at least two distinctive lines of cameras, mainly on styles. One is the super portable, like the press cameras. Portability is the top priority. The cameras are mainly made from light materials, such as wood, leather, etc. The lenses are smaller and more compact. They offer very limited movements. But they use LF films and true LF cameras. With the mass production of 35mm fully automatic SLRs, most of the them ceased production a long long time ago. In general, they are relative cheaper.

Then the next line is the mono rail studio cameras, such as Sinar. With this line, portability is not the concern. The focus is more on the studio use. So functionality and durability are the main focus. The cameras are readily serviceable and they are many accessories and replacement parts available. Most of the camera offer full movements. There are tons of the best view camera lenses ever made for them. Even with the competitions from 35mm and MF cameras, studio mono rail cameras were still used by professionals for many years longer than the press or field cameras.

The other key thing to remember is that. Before, there is a large gap between the prices of press/field cameras vs mono rail cameras. For newbies, it is better to get the cheaper press/field cameras, than the more expensive mono rail cameras. These days are long gone. The mono rails are very affordable, very. You may be able to find a mint condition Sinar F2 for $400. So you can learn what a real LF camera has to offer.

Frank Petronio
21-Oct-2012, 19:16
Here I am, trapped in my armchair under the crushing weight of my metal camera, which I never use to make any real pictures because it weighs three pounds more than the woody I should have gotten. It's pointless anyway because I have only one lens and might as well curl up and die here since I really should have gotten a rack of lenses to start with.

However, somehow, I managed to make a few pix with my limited gear, all from chair level. They're terrible and I never made a cent from them, my camera choice ruined my career and my life....

G
O
O
D
B
Y
E

Cruel world....

John Kasaian
21-Oct-2012, 19:32
Here I am, trapped in my armchair under the crushing weight of my metal camera, which I never use to make any real pictures because it weighs three pounds more than the woody I should have gotten. It's pointless anyway because I have only one lens and might as well curl up and die here since I really should have gotten a rack of lenses to start with.

However, somehow, I managed to make a few pix with my limited gear, all from chair level. They're terrible and I never made a cent from them, my camera choice ruined my career and my life....

G
O
O
D
B
Y
E

Cruel world....
Don't get run over by a crappy purple Scion, Frank!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSBFehvLJDc

Jody_S
21-Oct-2012, 20:05
Here I am, trapped in my armchair under the crushing weight of my metal camera, which I never use to make any real pictures because it weighs three pounds more than the woody I should have gotten. It's pointless anyway because I have only one lens and might as well curl up and die here since I really should have gotten a rack of lenses to start with.

However, somehow, I managed to make a few pix with my limited gear, all from chair level. They're terrible and I never made a cent from them, my camera choice ruined my career and my life....

G
O
O
D
B
Y
E

Cruel world....

I don't see what is so controversial about this. The OP didn't say what type of photography he or she does, but did specifically ask about wooden cameras, and then came back with a model and a price on a wooden camera (and a budget more than sufficient to buy it). As most of us readily admit, part of the appeal of LF is in the process itself, we take a lot of pride in using beautiful cameras and lenses. So why try to convince him to buy a monorail, when (by his list of gear to purchase) he is clearly aware of the fact that monorails exist, and has done a certain amount of homework in getting to this point?

My own comments on suitability: if you're planning on climbing mountains to photograph from the snow-covered peaks, yes you could use a monorail. For that matter, you could use a pack mule, two assistants, a ULF wet-plate camera and a developing tent with a kerosene stove to keep everything from freezing. It's been done, the results were magnificent. But neither is the ideal tool for the job. I personally would choose a lightweight wooden field camera. If I were hauling a car-load of camera and lighting gear out to a gravel road on the outskirts of town or wherever your model feels comfortable taking her clothes off, I would have no such preference. I personally do quite a lot of hiking, and climbing over fences and through windows and other means of getting into places other people don't want me to be; why would I do all of that with a monorail in a huge aluminum case, when I can carry my wooden camera & gear in a small backpack? When I can drive to wherever I'm going, I bring the 8x10. If I can't carry the backpack, I bring something smaller like a 35mm rangefinder.

TimeShare
22-Oct-2012, 01:13
I am new to large format. I looked at buying used before I got into large format but I found that used equipment was still quite expensive in comparison to newer field cameras such as ShenHao and Chamonix products. I narrowed it down to these two models and went with the Shenhao, here are my thoughts on this camera after using it for approximately a month.

From an earlier thread ...

If a friend were in the market for a large format camera, would I recommend a ShenHao product after owning mine for just over a month?

My ShenHao in combination with a Fujinon-W 135mm f5.6 lens is happily producing me images that excite me every time I scan a new negative.

I find the camera, easy to open and close as well as adjust as needed when making a number of adjustments while composing my shots.

There is a "But" though ... and that but relates to when I first opened the camera after receiving it in the mail. Unfortunately I noticed a number of unfinished areas of wood on the camera back and on the interior wood of the camera. Now this is no way impacts the performance of the camera BUT when you are expecting that perfectly new piece of equipment in the mail, it was disappointing to see that the workmanship on the finished product wasn't quite up to snuff.

My decision in purchasing a 4x5 camera was between the Chamonix and the ShenHao, the Chamonix was approximately $ 150.00 more but I have to wonder if the workmanship of that product would have been slightly better.

The distributor of the ShenHao was very gracious and offered to replace the camera but the thought of packing it up, the expense of mailing it back and the thought of waiting for a new camera did not sit well with me so I still have my original ShenHao.

However, if a friend were to ask me "should I order a ShenHao", I would probably be leaning towards the answer of No.

Jiri Vasina
22-Oct-2012, 01:48
I've been new to large format photography some 6 years ago, but I have never had (or used or even actually seen) a monorail camera. I have only used field type cameras. I would also recommend a field camera for you as a novice. A lighter, more versatile camera would not deter you from taking the camera out with you... from taking it out of the bag... you would use it more... have more practice and confidence...

As for the number of lenses... some prefer the one-lens approach, some say why limit yourself... I have several lenses in my bag, but use only 2 of them for 90-95% of all shots (for my 5x7"/5x8" size that's 210mm and 300mm, that would be roughly a ~135mm and a ~210mm). Based on that I'd recommend having one to two lenses, definitely not more...

Based on my experience with my Chamonix 5x8" and my brother's ShenHao and Tachihara, I'd recommend the Chamonix 4x5 (although that one I have not seen either).

Jiri

Drew Bedo
22-Oct-2012, 05:13
I broke into LF photogrphy in the late 1980s when I was severly under-employed. This was during the hay-day of the Houston Camera Shows that were held twice a year out by Hobby Airport in Houston.

My first camera (still have it) was a pre-annaversary Speed Graphic that had been gutted of any in-body mechanism and stripped down to the wood. Only view camera functionality remained. Gaps in the wood were filled with Bondo and the body painted black. I got an uncoated Tessar in a dial set Compur shutter (all markings in German)for the front. Film was from a clinic I worked at . . .cut down ultrasound film developed in an x-ray darkroom.

I had a blast with that rig. When it began to feel limiting, I got (from the Houston Camera Show) an old Rajah knock off of a 'Baby 'Dorff. Used that for a while.

I have never bought a factory new camera. I have never agonized over what "The Best" camera or kit was. The most important thing is to get out and shoot with what you have . . .and trade up to what you want.

Cheers

RedSun
22-Oct-2012, 05:22
Yes, this is true and makes perfect sense. Then I'm not sure if you ever even looked into mono rail cameras at that time. A decent Sinar F2 would probably run at close to $1,000 range. The price would probably out of your range if you want to add a Rodenstock lens, etc.

But now, price is not really a factor. It is what you want to learn and what you want to use.

Joseph Dickerson
22-Oct-2012, 07:56
Here I am, trapped in my armchair under the crushing weight of my metal camera, which I never use to make any real pictures because it weighs three pounds more than the woody I should have gotten. It's pointless anyway because I have only one lens and might as well curl up and die here since I really should have gotten a rack of lenses to start with.

However, somehow, I managed to make a few pix with my limited gear, all from chair level. They're terrible and I never made a cent from them, my camera choice ruined my career and my life....

G
O
O
D
B
Y
E

Cruel world....

What Frank said...:p

Not to put too fine a point on it but I've made my living for 40+ years with my photography...some of the time with field cameras some of the time with monorails. Not one of those damn cameras has ever gone out and shot anything worth while on its own.

JD

cosmicexplosion
24-Dec-2012, 15:58
You should never get a monorail to start with
Mainly as you are used to 35mm or iPhones for that matter
And want to get our and shoot
And my toyo monorail has only been out once
Of I had a fold up woody I'd keep it in my pocket so to speak.

I repeat get a fold up woodsy

And shoot the shit !

cosmicexplosion
24-Dec-2012, 15:59
Mono rails are heavy awkward and hard to handle.

Compared to a clam