BTZS vs JOBO

[macandal]

Both are highly regarded. Which one should I get? Which model? Thanks.

[Vaughn]

What size negtives?

I use a Jobo Expert Drum (3005) for 5x7 and 8x10. Very nice to use and great results. Load drum in the dark, then the rest of the time in the light.

I have not used the BTZS tubes, but I think their advantage would be 1) You can make them yourself and save money and 2) individual development times for each negative compared to the all-at-the-same-time Jobo.

[macandal]

What size negtives?Sorry, I forgot. 4x5, but eventually I want to also process 8x10.

[Andrew O'Neill]

I use both 4x5 and 8x10 BTZS tubes. Very easy to use and very little developer is required. I also like the fact that I can use different developer(s) dilutions, at different times, all at the same time. A lot cheaper compared to Jobo and nothing can break down. The only downside is that you have to stand there spinning the tubes...

[Jeff Bannow]

One downside to both is that they are both continuous agitation. You can't do any stand / semi-stand developing in either.

For what it's worth, I investigated both (had a jobo for a while, had consistency problems in my negatives, but didn't have the expert drums). I've decided to go with nitrogen burst instead.

However, I think you can probably make any system work well if you practice at it enough.

[Oren Grad]

I've used both BTZS tubes and Jobo. For my taste the Jobo is much simpler and more convenient - there are far fewer individual pieces that need to be juggled and actions that need to be completed for a processing run. Chasing all those bobbing tubes around and uncrewing and screwing all those caps gets old after a while. But either system can work well and produce high quality results. If budget is tight, the BTZS tubes are a very practical choice.

I should add, I don't try to customize development of individual sheets. That's easier to do with the BTZS tubes, though it complicates the workflow even more as you have to either keep straight a bunch of caps with different dilutions or you need to keep track of the different timings as you're chasing the bobbing tubes around your water tray trying to grab the right ones at the right times.

[macandal]

...For my taste the Jobo is much simpler and more convenient...Which model do you recommend? How much should I expect to pay? Thanks.

[Oren Grad]

Which model do you recommend? How much should I expect to pay? Thanks.

If you want to use the Expert drums, you need a CPA-2 or CPP-2, preferably with late serial number (most robust version of the motor).

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?93227-Just-set-up-my-new-to-me-JOBO-and-started-researching-the-serial-number

Or the forthcoming CPP-3 if you have lots of money to spend. I don't know what the going rate is for used CPA-2/CPP-2 these days - you probably need to follow eBay for a while.

[Jeff Bannow]

I don't know what the going rate is for used CPA-2/CPP-2 these days - you probably need to follow eBay for a while.

CPP2s are $1200-1500 for a good condition unit, possibly more if it's late model. That's without the drums.

[Oren Grad]

CPP2s are $1200-1500 for a good condition unit, possibly more if it's late model. That's without the drums.

Thanks, Jeff!

[macandal]

CPP2s are $1200-1500 for a good condition unit, possibly more if it's late model. That's without the drums.Yikes! Why so expensive? What do they do that make this units so expensive?

[Jeff Bannow]

Yikes! Why so expensive? What do they do that make this units so expensive?

And that's the used price. New they are $3000. Plus $300-400 each for the tanks.

If I was in your position I would consider stainless tank and hangers. Cheap, durable and can process stand or semi-stand if you choose. You should be able I get a nice setup for $100-200 complete, ready to process.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

I use a 3006 for 4x5 and 5x7 on a adapted Unicolor (?) motor base. It requires a bit more work than with the CPP, but is just fine. It also takes much less space. The key to consistency is that you need to reverse the spin occasionally. The Unicolor base reverses too frequently (I think), so I opened it up and removed the reversal mechanism, which is easy to do. I now reverse by hand (flipping the tank in the other direction) every minute. You also need to pour your chemicals in with a siphon and hose, but this is easy enough.

I also use BTZS tubes for 8x10, which I like, but are certainly more work than the JOBO tanks. On the other hand, I can do a batch of N+1 and N-1 starting the same time, which you can't do with the JOBO.

[macandal]

If I was in your position I would consider stainless tank and hangers.You read my mind my friend.

[Roger Thoms]

It depends a lot on your budget and whether you have a darkroom or not. I like the BTZS tube but don't have a darkroom right now so I don't use them. The nice thing with the Jobo is you can load your film in a changing tent or dark closet, and then everything is done with the lights on. You can also set up the Jobo on the counter next to the sink, like in the kitchen for instance. With the BTZS tube you need complete darkness until you get the development started then you can turn on the lights and it is also very nice to have a darkroom sink to work in.

The View Camera Store has some good videos on YouTube show how to use the BTZS tubes. If you haven't seen them just do a search for BTZS, they are easy to find. Definitely worth watching if you are trying to make up you mind.

Roger

[Eric Biggerstaff]

I have used both and they are excellent products. The BTZS tubes are a very good, fairly low cost way of getting consistent and even results. They use very little chemicals and are nice for when you have only a few sheets to develop, heck I use them for just one! The kit is the way to go and is an invetment that will last many many years with no mechanical issues. I also use a Jobo 3010 Expert Drum for both 4X5 and 5X7 film and it too is excellent. I use it on a Beseler motor base and don't reverse the drum and have no issues with even development. It is a higher initial investment than the BTZS tubes but it will also last a lifetime if used properly and taken care of. If I were just starting out, I would likely jsut get the BTZS kit and be done with it. However, I am a firm believer that everyone should know how to tray develop a stack of film, it is a talent that can come in handy when other systems fail (and it is easy with practice)!

Good luck, just remember that it doesn't really matter what method you use as long as you practice and test your materials, this will help you get the best possible results.

[Jeff Bannow]

Good luck, just remember that it doesn't really matter what method you use as long as you practice and test your materials, this will help you get the best possible results.

Amen!

[Vaughn]

If you want to use the Expert drums, you need a CPA-2 or CPP-2, preferably with late serial number (most robust version of the motor)...

Not required - I use a Beseler motor base with good results.

SS hangers and tanks is also a good way to go -- careful agitation method is required.

[Brian Ellis]

I used BTZS tubes (4x5 and 8x10) for years. I've used a Jobo system for two weeks in a darkroom workshop. The only reasons I know of to use a Jobo system is if you have a large quantity of film to develop. The Jobo drums I used accepted 10 sheets of 4x5 film, 6 sheets at a time is the maximum with the BTZS tubes if you use them in the water jacket tray that comes with them. The other reason is if you don't want to agitate/roll by hand and prefer to let a machine do it for you.

There perhaps are others but those are the two that I know of. The BTZS tubes have several advantages - they're inexpensive relative to a Jobo system (about $150 from The View Camera Store last time I looked), they take up little space, there's no moving parts so they don't wear out or break, they use very little chemistry (1-2 ounces of developer per 4x5 tube), and you can process different negatives for different times in the same run.

I'm not sure what Oren has in mind when he talks about the Jobo system having "far fewer individual pieces that need to be juggled and actions that need to be completed for a processing run. Chasing all those bobbing tubes around and unscrewing and screwing all those caps gets old after a while." You have one set of caps for each tube, you put the developer in the caps, put the film in the tubes, screw the tubes onto the caps, put the tubes in the water jacket/tray that comes with the tubes (if you buy them rather than making your own), spin them until development is completed, unscrew the caps, move the tubes to the stop bath, etc. One set of caps, the caps go on once and are taken off once, that's it. I don't remember everything I did with the Jobo system but I don't remember it being noticeably simpler than that. Since the tubes were in a tray I never felt that I was chasing anything around.

Some people use two sets of caps, one to cap the tubes after the film is in the tubes and a second to hold the developer, then they unscrew the first set and screw the tubes onto the second set. Perhaps that's what Oren is thinking of. But it isn't necessary to do that, at least if the room you're working in is dark (not necessarily a dedicated "darkroom"). You can just fill one set of caps with developer, put the film in the tubes, then screw the tubes onto the caps and turn on the lights. No need for a second set of caps unless perhaps you were using a changing tent. In that case it wouldn't be a good idea to put developer in the caps and the caps in the tent because of the risk of knocking them over.

In terms of loading film I don't know of any difference between the two systems. With the Jobo you load the film into the drums in darkness, then turn the lights on, with the BTZS tubes you do the same. Both systems require darkness to load the film, neither requires darkness once the film is in the drum/tubes.

I liked the Jobo system I used, it was a fine system. I just didn't like spending $1,500 or so when I could get the same results by spending a lot less. Not everyone would feel that way and that's fine for them.

[Pawlowski6132]

Don't forget the Unicolor system.

[Andrew O'Neill]

You can't do any stand / semi-stand developing in either.

Jeff, I regularly do stand/ semi-stand in BTZS tubes. The tube is kept upright and is filled to the brim with developer. Been doing it for years.

[joselsgil]

Both are highly regarded. Which one should I get? Which model? Thanks.


I currently don't have a permanent darkroom at home, so I needed a way to process my film with a light proof tank or tubes. I looked into the Jobo and the BTZS systems.
I took into consideration the cost and went with the BTZS tubes. I have used the 8X10 BTZS tubes to develop 4x5, 5x7, and 8x10 film. I use PMK Pyro one shot developer and have had very good developing results. I develop my film in my garage, at night so as to minimize the chances of fogging the film when switching from the dry cap to the cap with developer.

I recently acquired a set of 4x5 BTZS tubes from one of the forum's members. I have approximately $200 invested in both the 8X10 and the 4x5 kits. This is much less than what I would have spent on a Jobo tank. If you want to spend even less, you can make your own developing tubes from ABS or schedule 80 PVC pipe, (do not use schedule 40 white PVC it is translucent and will fog the film). There is a thread on how to make your own developing tubes somewhere on this forum. For 8x10, you can obtain arc welding rod, (electrode) holders. That is what the 8x10 BTZS tubes are derived from.

Hope this info helps,

Jose

[welly]

I used BTZS tubes (4x5 and 8x10) for years. I've used a Jobo system for two weeks in a darkroom workshop. The only reasons I know of to use a Jobo system is if you have a large quantity of film to develop. The Jobo drums I used accepted 10 sheets of 4x5 film, 6 sheets at a time is the maximum with the BTZS tubes if you use them in the water jacket tray that comes with them. The other reason is if you don't want to agitate/roll by hand and prefer to let a machine do it for you.

There perhaps are others but those are the two that I know of. The BTZS tubes have several advantages - they're inexpensive relative to a Jobo system (about $150 from The View Camera Store last time I looked), they take up little space, there's no moving parts so they don't wear out or break, they use very little chemistry (1-2 ounces of developer per 4x5 tube), and you can process different negatives for different times in the same run.



Curious about BTZS tubes - you say it uses only 1-2 ounces (60ml in real money) of developer - would that be 1-2 ounces of stock developer or working solution? So if I'm using Rodinal at 1:25, I'd only be using about 2.4ml of Rodinal and 57.6ml of water? That would be amazing if so. I'd never run out of the stuff!

[Shen45]

60 ml of working solution. Eg D76 @ 1+3 = 15 ml D76 + 45 ml of water.

Steve

[Brian Ellis]

Curious about BTZS tubes - you say it uses only 1-2 ounces (60ml in real money) of developer - would that be 1-2 ounces of stock developer or working solution? So if I'm using Rodinal at 1:25, I'd only be using about 2.4ml of Rodinal and 57.6ml of water? That would be amazing if so. I'd never run out of the stuff!

The 4x5 tubes hold 2 ounces of developer. If you use undiluted developer then you'd use 2 ounces of it. I used D76 1-1 so I used one ounce of developer per tube. If you dilute your working solution 1-25 then you'd use whatever amount of developer the math works out to be to provide two ounces of working solution.

[welly]

The 4x5 tubes hold 2 ounces of developer. If you use undiluted developer then you'd use 2 ounces of it. I used D76 1-1 so I used one ounce of developer per tube. If you dilute your working solution 1-25 then you'd use whatever amount of developer the math works out to be to provide two ounces of working solution.

Awesome. Thank you (and Shen45). I think I'm going to pick up a set of tubes and try them out. I don't currently have a daylight developing system and much that I enjoy developing with my trays and slosher, I'm always keen to try new methods! I'm sold.

[Shen45]

You will find them excellent. I have both Jobo and BTZS. The Jobo doesn't get much use at all.

[joselsgil]

Welly,

Fred Newman from the View Camera Store, has some You Tube videos on how to use the BTZS tubes.

[jeroldharter]

The BTZS tubes are an excellent way to start. Others have provided the salient details. Check out the View Camera Store videos.

The BTZS tubes suffer when you have lots of film to process. Try running 50 sheets through the tubes. That is when you wish you had a Jobo. For doing smaller amounts more often, the tubes work fine. They are very low tech.

It helps to get a properly sized dowel rod to jam a thin towel down the tube for drying between runs.

[welly]

The BTZS tubes are an excellent way to start. Others have provided the salient details. Check out the View Camera Store videos.

The BTZS tubes suffer when you have lots of film to process. Try running 50 sheets through the tubes. That is when you wish you had a Jobo. For doing smaller amounts more often, the tubes work fine. They are very low tech.

It helps to get a properly sized dowel rod to jam a thin towel down the tube for drying between runs.

Yeah, I rarely process more than 4 at a time. I did 6 sheets last night for the first time. It's usually 2 or 3 :) I'm not the most prolific photographer in the world! Or at least, not the most prolific film developer - I usually have a backlog of sheets to process. I think I'm going to order a set of tubes. I like my trays and am getting some good results from them but there's no harm in trying something new.

[Zaitz]

Jeff, I regularly do stand/ semi-stand in BTZS tubes. The tube is kept upright and is filled to the brim with developer. Been doing it for years.

I was going to post that as well. Completely agree. Stand in a BTZS tube is quite doable and easy. The only thing I don't like about the tubes is scratches. Always always always get them. I need to sand down the inside but haven't yet. I can actually see the bumps in my 8x10 tube. A bit unfortunate as it'd be perfect otherwise.

[Brian Ellis]

I was going to post that as well. Completely agree. Stand in a BTZS tube is quite doable and easy. The only thing I don't like about the tubes is scratches. Always always always get them. I need to sand down the inside but haven't yet. I can actually see the bumps in my 8x10 tube. A bit unfortunate as it'd be perfect otherwise.

I assume you made the tubes yourself or bought them from someone who made them? I've had two sets of BTZS tubes bought from The View Camera Store, one 4x5, one 8x10. Never had a scratch from either set after using them for several thousand photographs (mostly 4x5, fewer 8x10). If you're getting scratches from the tubes and they aren't home-made they should have been returned, defective BTZS tubes aren't normal in my experience.

[macandal]

Okay, so, so far I've been processing my 4x5 in tanks. As I do it more, I'm liking it less and less. The fact that it has to be done in total darkness is a big minus. Right now, I use the darkrooms at the school where I'm taking the class, but, once that's over, I'm back to no darkroom. So let me open up this question to:


I need a system to process 4x5 and, eventually, 8x10 film.
I have to be able to process in light (i.e., no darkroom necessary/home).
It has to be affordable. I would love to have one of those Jobo processors, but I can't afford the $1000s those cost. Anything for under $500 is what I'm looking for (emphasis on "under").
It has to use little developer. I found myself going through my one gallon jar of developer quite fast. Am I wrong/unrealistic in wanting it to last longer? I think I've only processed film 4 or 5 times, plus 4 times doing 35mm rolls and my developer is gone.
Suggestions should be limited to any system. Not just Jobo or BTZS. Anything.


I think that's it. Thanks for all your help guys.

[welly]

A Paterson Orbital will do 4 sheets of 4x5 at a time or one sheet of 8x10. You can pick them up for less than $200, sometimes.

[chassis]

macandal, the BTZS system fits each of your criteria. If you start with the 4x5 system, then purchase a few 8x10 tubes, the cost is under $250.

[frotog]

Why not just get a combi-plan and be done with it? Much more control then these rotary tubes.

[Brian Ellis]

Why not just get a combi-plan and be done with it? Much more control then these rotary tubes.

In what way does it provide more control than "rotary tubes" (by which I assume you mean BTZS and similar tubes)? I know nothing about the combi-plan so I'm not arguing, just curious.

[sanking]

Why not just get a combi-plan and be done with it? Much more control then these rotary tubes.

I use BTZS tubes precisely for the great control of processing. Photographers who use this method of development routinely develop up to 6-8 sheets at a time. If needed, a different dilution or developer can be used in each of the tubes, and the film in the individual tubes can be developed for whatever time is desired. And with all of this control this method of development gives very even development with very small quantities of developer..

Sandy

[trog]

I use my DIY tubes for the occasional sheet or when I need to push/pull. Otherwise I use my MOD54. I too experienced scratches with my home-made tubes until I sanded the interior. Nice and smooth now.

[macandal]

Why not just get a combi-plan and be done with it? Much more control then these rotary tubes.How does a combi-plan work? Once you load the film you can work in light, right? How much developer does it use? The tanks I've been using take 1050 mL of developer (35.5 oz). So basically, for the tanks, 1 gallon of developer is enough to process film almost 4 times (3.6). That's about 16 sheets of 4x5 per gallon of developer. Thanks.

[macandal]

...my MOD54...What's a MOD54?

[djhopscotch]

What's a MOD54?

Allows 4x5 development in a patterson 3 reel tank.

http://www.mod54.com/

[frotog]

In what way does it provide more control than "rotary tubes" (by which I assume you mean BTZS and similar tubes)? I know nothing about the combi-plan so I'm not arguing, just curious.

I find rotary agitation patterns to be problematic with color negative and b/w staining developers where the first few seconds are critical. PMK, my favorite staining developer, does not work well when the non-emulsion side is making contact with the barrel of a rotary tube. Then there is the problem of having to futz around with a handful of btzs tubes and their respective caps in the dark which lead to long chemistry exchange times which leads to even greater inaccuracy and uneven processing. It's like juggling in the dark - no thanks.

[Jiri Vasina]

I'm a little late in the discussion, but I have not seen a mention about the setup I use, and it might still be usefull:

I have a Jobo 2830 tank (which accepts up to two 8×10" sheets, or four 5×7", or if used with the reels, can develop 12 4×5" sheets) and a Unicolor Uniroller motor base. I can use as little as 350ml of developer solution - that means just 7ml of Rodinal at the 1:50 dilution I use. Or if developing just a single sheet (because of N- or N+ variations), I have used even 250-300ml. Works very well, didn't have any problems with it so far...

Jiri

[Brian Ellis]

I find rotary agitation patterns to be problematic with color negative and b/w staining developers where the first few seconds are critical. PMK, my favorite staining developer, does not work well when the non-emulsion side is making contact with the barrel of a rotary tube. Then there is the problem of having to futz around with a handful of btzs tubes and their respective caps in the dark which lead to long chemistry exchange times which leads to even greater inaccuracy and uneven processing. It's like juggling in the dark - no thanks.

I didn't use the tubes when I used PMK. IIRC the things I read about PMK said to not use it with tubes (and maybe not any other form of rotary processing, I don't remember the details). I also never tried to use the tubes with color, I used a Domac processor for color. But that doesn't seem to me to be a matter of less "control," it just means the tubes aren't suitable for certain types of work.

As for the rest, I don't know what you mean by "futz around with a handful of btzs tubes and their respective caps in the dark which lead to long chemistry exchange times." There's no "exchange" of chemistry in the tubes. You put the film in the tubes, cap the tubes, turn on the lights. Put the tubes in the water jacket and start development. At the end of the development time(s) you uncap a tube (or tubes) and put the tube with the film still in it in a container of stop bath, then remove the film from the tube and put it in the fix. Since that's all done in the light there's no "juggling in the dark." I also don't recall ever holding a "handful" of tubes. You pretty much deal with one tube at a time.

I don't mean to sound like a cheerleader for the BTZS tubes. I used them for many years and found them to be a simple, easy to use, relatively inexpensive system that used minimal chemistry, took up little space, and worked well for me. That doesn't mean other systems don't work equally well or better or that other people shouldn't prefer other systems. But anyone who's considering whether to use them should, IMHO, understand how they actually work and not be put off by what to me are misleading references to exchanging chemicals, futzing around with handfuls of tubes, and juggling in the dark (misleading because you don't actually do those things, or at least I didn't).

[macandal]

I'm a little late in the discussion, but I have not seen a mention about the [...] Jobo 2830 tank [...] Works very well, didn't have any problems with it so far...

JiriThey reason you may not have seen it mentioned is because of its price, which is one of my requirements. That it be affordable--(way) below $500 US.

How much does one of those cost? New? Used?

Thanks.

[DKirk]

There is this one though parcelforce will charge up to £70 if the seller agrees to post it outside UK http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/jobo-2830-drum-for-jobo-processor-/321001049310?pt=UK_Photography_DarkroomSupplies_SM&hash=item4abd274cde

or this one, again due to the size of the box to post it again around the £70 mark (though that is for either the 3 day or up to 7 day delivery time mark - I forget which) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jobo-2840-Print-Drum-2800-Rotation-system-in-Mint-condition-/180988370415?pt=UK_Photography_DarkroomSupplies_SM&hash=item2a23bf5def

[Andrew O'Neill]

Why not just get a combi-plan and be done with it? Much more control then these rotary tubes.

Disagree! I've used a combi-plan when I was living in Japan. Binned it once I started using BTZS tubes. Please explain how you can have more control?? Have you ever used BTZS tubes?

[macandal]

Have you ever used BTZS tubes?Andrew, I don't know if you read some of my requirements, but that the system be more conservative in its use of developer was one of them (I use too much when I use the tanks). How much developer do you use with the tubes? How many 4x5 sheets can you do at once? How many 8x10? Thanks.

[Roger Cole]

And that's the used price. New they are $3000. Plus $300-400 each for the tanks.

If I was in your position I would consider stainless tank and hangers. Cheap, durable and can process stand or semi-stand if you choose. You should be able I get a nice setup for $100-200 complete, ready to process.


You read my mind my friend.

I have deep tanks (plastic) and hangers (steel, and neither are for sale) that I started with before I got the Jobo and they work ok but have their own limitations. They require 1/2 gallon of solution making one shot developer impractically expensive and inconvenient, and they make temperature control difficult. Sure you can rig up a water bath but it must be big and it takes a while to stabilize a 1/2 gallon tank. You can't make it too deep (which would be more effective) without making the tank too boyant. I suppose you could affix it to the bottom somehow.

I have kept them mainly as a spare system to my Jobo and I've been meaning to experiment with them using Diafine some day.

[Jiri Vasina]

They reason you may not have seen it mentioned is because of its price, which is one of my requirements. That it be affordable--(way) below $500 US.

How much does one of those cost? New? Used?

Thanks.

The Jobo 28xx line tanks is much cheaper than the Jobo 3xxx line, much more affordable... Kirk has already linked some items, I think with patience you could have one of the 2830 tanks in the US$ 50-100 range...

Edit:----

I have also had the CombiPlan tank, but it was much more messy, always had leaks (fluid seeping outside, not light inside... :D ) and as I am developing in our bathroom, my wife was complaining a lot about the small dark spots...

For 3x4" I have a stainless steel tank dip and dunk, based on which I would not recommend a dip tank...

[Jeff Bannow]

I have deep tanks (plastic) and hangers (steel, and neither are for sale) that I started with before I got the Jobo and they work ok but have their own limitations. They require 1/2 gallon of solution making one shot developer impractically expensive and inconvenient, and they make temperature control difficult. Sure you can rig up a water bath but it must be big and it takes a while to stabilize a 1/2 gallon tank. You can't make it too deep (which would be more effective) without making the tank too boyant. I suppose you could affix it to the bottom somehow.

Depends a lot on the tank. The tank system I have can do 5-6 sheets in 1 liter of developer, and have a built in water jacket system for temp control.

Oh, and mine are for sale. :)

[Roger Cole]

Well ok, that's very different. Mine, the only such type I'm familiar with, take 1/2 gallon, hold six hangers, and are made of plastic, rig your own waterbath.

When you say yours have a built in water jacket, do you mean a place for the water or also a temperature controller? Just curious as I've not heard of such a system made commercially.

[Jeff Bannow]

Well ok, that's very different. Mine, the only such type I'm familiar with, take 1/2 gallon, hold six hangers, and are made of plastic, rig your own waterbath.

When you say yours have a built in water jacket, do you mean a place for the water or also a temperature controller? Just curious as I've not heard of such a system made commercially.

Here's a photo:

82139

There are 5 compartments which will each hold 5-6 hangers. All of these fit inside at steel tank that has space for water. You can also insert the heater / probe to keep the water at a specified temp.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Andrew, I don't know if you read some of my requirements, but that the system be more conservative in its use of developer was one of them (I use too much when I use the tanks). How much developer do you use with the tubes? How many 4x5 sheets can you do at once? How many 8x10? Thanks.
For 4x5, you only need 60ml "total" solution. 8x10, 250ml. I always dilution the developer so as you can see, very little stock developer is required.

[DKirk]

One other thing you could try if you come across three or four of them is to use the combi plan tanks as a minature replacement for dip and dunk deep tanks. Or If you go the combiplan route is to stand process in rodinal 1:50 - 1:100. Still figuring out what's best for me - JOBO hands down winner for E6 and C41, jury is out on B&W. Quite interested in trying the XTOL+Rodinal combination (mainly 'cos I have both devs to hand. . . ) or the Rodinal+ascorbate+borax mixtures.

[frotog]

One other thing you could try if you come across three or four of them is to use the combi plan tanks as a minature replacement for dip and dunk deep tanks.

This is the way I like to do it to. Having a separate tank for each bath enables fast, easy movements from one bath to the other. In my experience a lot of processing problems occur due to slow chemistry exchange times - especially with staining developers.

I'm glad people here get great results with the btzs tubes as it's no doubt a good, cheap alternative to the jobo if you're looking to get into rotary processing. And as long as you can keep all six tubes rotating then I suppose you'll end up with even development. But I found it tedius and difficult to monitor the degree of agitation just using one let alone six. And, as I mentioned in an earlier post, unless you have an extra set of hands, each time you pull a tube to unscrew the lid and submerge in stop the remaining tubes with developer are floating in your water bath without any agitation (and, unless you have the tube filled up entirely with chemistry, partially in and partially out of the developer). For my process, this clumsy inter-arrival of sheets is unacceptable. See this link if you haven't watched it already...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMXQO5ATgiY Notice what's happening to the other tubes as Fred removes the first tube from the waterbath and proceeds to submerge it into the stop bath. No thanks.