Sinar Parts Unavailability ~ F, P, F1, P2 ~ Solutions?

[Frank Petronio]

On another thread the topic diverged into discussion of the (alleged?) announcement that Sinar-Bron, the North American distributor of Sinar cameras, will no longer be stocking replacement parts after XXXX? (I think 2013).

First, is there any confirmation from an official press release or is this just a rumor off the Photokina 2012 show floor?

Second, what can Sinar users do to future-proof themselves?

Third, will the factory in Switzerland still have parts for us?

I know the search function is limited, but there is little hope of people finding anything without a proper title to the thread. The earlier discussion can be found here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?94889-New-Arca-Swiss-11x14-camera and hopefully the participants will move their posts over here if the Mods don't beat them to it.

~~~

IMHO it makes sense to buy two cameras, at least in the F-line since they are so cheap... In the P-line it would be good to know which are the highest wear, most fragile parts and which are specific to Ps versus P2s.

[Ed Richards]

I just had a P2 overhauled by Precision Camera. Great job, BTW. Might be a good time to have that done, while parts are available. You have probably forgotten how your P is supposed to feel. :-)

I think buying Fs as spares makes sense. That and replacing the crummy original F front standard with an F2 standard.

[Frank Petronio]

Yes Bob Watkins in Chicago used to be a Sinar Tech (now he does Arca-Swiss) and he knows them inside and out. Not cheap but not as bad as the factory and he even makes his own replacement levels for the Norma! He also has a small machine shop and will make parts as needed but as you can imagine it is expensive.

http://precisioncameraworks.com

I use a Norma myself and have a stash of parts, even though I think Sinar still stocked them they were expensive ~ just buy another entire camera for not much more.

[Captain_joe6]

As far as I understand the information I received, this is an issue specific to Hasselblad Bron Inc (formally Sinar-Bron), the US distributor for Broncolor lighting, Foba studio accessories/tripods, and (also formally) Sinar cameras. Their website no longer lists Sinar among its brands or products. Sinar's main Swiss website seems to be relatively current, and I know I've gotten an email newsletter from them at least once this year, so there must be something still kicking over there.

I have confirmed this directly with HBI (they also refer to themselves as BIG for Bron Imaging Group). They also did not know of anyone taking on US distributorship of Sinar parts/cameras, but said that they would look into it for me.

From what I can tell, this seems to be, as I mentioned before, much like the Fuji Japan-Fuji North America situation. One claims that something is available, and the other says no. ONly when you go to the parent company do you get some sort of real, definitive answer. All of this assuming, of course, that the parent company can be reached, and I'm not all that up on my German or French, but I'll try to get in touch with Sinar AG and see what they're up to and what they're going to be able to provide for North America in the future.

So thats whats up. You seem to be on the luckier end of things if you own a Norma, since they've been out of production for decades and people have had to figure out how to fix them without any dedicated source of supplies. If you've got an F/F2, you can probably get away with things for a long while, since there are fewer failure points on them. And for us P/P2 owners, well, if nothing else, our cameras might all be headed for Swiss spa vacations if nobody stateside picks of the slack.

Crap.

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

Hello all.

I was at the photokina on Sep. 22 and 23, 2012, and I was surprised to discover, prior to my visit, that on the kina's web site, Sinar was only listed a manufacturer of digital view cameras. This classification appeared only on the web site; upon arrival at the fair, I bought the paper catalogue of exhibitors and discovered that Sinar, in this document, was listed as usual like Linhof and Arca Swiss, as a manufacturer of large format FILM cameras.

A Belgian photograpĥer at the kina asked the question directly and the answer was : no problem, "we still deliver the P2 (4x5", 5x7" and 8x10"); and the F, although no longer listed on the catalogue is still deliverable". This report has been posted here (in French) on our French MF+LF forum.
http://www.galerie-photo.info/forumgp/read.php?5,153948,155693#msg-155693

I just passed by the Sinar booth and did not see any "film" camera on display, all cameras were fitted with a digital back ; mostly P3 models, but there was probably a P2 as well.
See these images
photokina 2012: Sinar booth (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8455/8044034053_ec86bf0b2d_b.jpg)
a scale model of the Chartres cathedral (France) ; the camera looks like a P3 (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8309/8044034229_56de39c830_h.jpg)

The situation might be as follows; those are only guesses on my side, to be confirmed or contradicted by a reference to an official press release:
- Sinar actually has some stock of P2 and F cameras, but will sell this stock as complete cameras, not as spare parts
- or there might be a difference in deliverables between Europe and Northern America ???
- the 3-rd explanation (and hopefully the right one) is as explained by Captain Joe, distribution will be taken over by another company in the US.
Anyway, we'll know the answer soon.

[Captain_joe6]

My thanks for Emmanuel for providing actual, on-the-ground European experience and relayed information directly from Sinar AG.

My interpretation of this information is in line with my earlier conclusions: that Sinar AG continues to provide the P2 and F2 series of cameras (in addition to newer models), either through existing component backstocks assembled into complete cameras or by the current production of components for said cameras. At any rate, this means that somewhere in Switzerland there are the requisite parts available to assemble the internal (and external) mechanisms for these cameras. That they exist is a good sign that they will continue to exist, especially as Sinar AG maintains that they can provide new P2/F2 cameras as needed.

Contrast to this, is Hasselblad Bron Inc, formerly Bron Imaging Group, formerly Sinar-Bron Inc., the US distributor for, at least at some point in its history, Hasselblad, Sinar, Foba, Broncolor, et cetera, et cetera. They exist purely as an import-distributorship entity, though they maintain a modest warranty repair facility, as the majority of their products are sourced in Europe and consumers don't want to be shipping their heavy, precious studio equipment halfway across the globe just for a CLA or whatnot. As a distributor of multiple lines of products made by multiple parent companies, they need to be flexible enough to work with changing market needs, as these are some very spendy items they're importing.

All that said, it boils down to this: Bron, in whatever partnership or iteration they exist, have decided somewhere in the recent past that importing, distributing, and supporting Sinar products to North America was not a tenable business track. As such, they have ceased their partnership with Sinar AG, and have no reason to continue support for Sinar cameras. It does not mean that Sinar is gone, or are going away, or anything of that ilk. What it does mean, however, is that until a new North American official Sinar AG representative is established, all repair parts will have to be sourced directly through Sinar AG, in Switzerland.

When will someone else step in to fill the North American void? No idea. Whenever someone decides the demand is great enough to run a business off of, all told. At this point in global economic history, that probably means that nobody will be springing to action any time soon, unless there's a sudden strong need for Sinar products in China. On the other hand, if Sinar AG is becoming enough and limber enough with their English skills, there's little reason why any photographer or competent repair shop couldn't order up the needed parts and have them on their way. Bron had to deal with exchange rates and shipping times, same as anyone else, so really, we've just cut out the middlemen now.

Good thing or bad thing, whose to say. I'm just happy that I'll be able to source parts for my trusty P2 for the forseeable future, albeit with a little more legwork on my end. As the saying goes: 'no good thing comes without effort.'

[Robert H]

Recently ordered some parts for my "P" via the distributor for the Netherlands based in Belgium without any problems so this seems encouraging.
Having a look at the look of the current Sinar "factory" via Google Maps at Farbhofstrasse 21
8048 Zurich – Switzerland was a little less encouraging however. A far cry from how things looked in Schaffhausen not so long ago.

[Leonard Robertson]

I recently emailed Sinar directly in Europe and asked about a couple of small parts for my Norma (Thanks Robert H for posting the Sinar email address.). They replied (on 2/18/2014) "We strongly recommend to get in touch with one of our US-Resellers directly for local support. The closest store might be Foto Care in New York. They also got a Service-Center and might be able to help."

The email included this link to US "Resellers" http://www.sinar.ch/en/category/resellers/north-america/

Sinar also said to contact them if I have further questions. So they didn't specifically say they no longer supply parts. Maybe they would rather sell parts through Sinar dealers rather than direct.

I haven't tried contacting Foto Care or any of the other Resellers yet, although it is on my list of things to do. I have a feeling Norma parts will be really tough to find, but maybe those of you with newer models will be able to find parts from one of these Resellers.

Len

[8x10 user]

There is a guy on ebay who sells and refurbishes Sinar cameras under the user name Apogeebee. He does good work. Although I question his practices with Sinaron lenses and copal shutters.



I was excited to learn that I now own a Lecia (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpetapixel.com%2F2013%2F11%2F26%2Fleica-acquires-swiss-large-format-view-camera-manufacturer-sinar%2F&ei=xV0XU-PVFq78yAGhj4HABQ&usg=AFQjCNHmilW9r61XLxdUtCagHfygt-y4KQ&sig2=p7qrV1T3v04h_80us0CRtg) camera.

[Drew Wiley]

Used Sinar cameras have gotten so cheap that its almost easier to buy an entire rig for parts, then cannibalize that as needed.

[8x10 user]

There are wear parts in the Sinars. They are cameras that are meant to be service every once in awhile. Some p2s for example can be a bit loose but will be as good as new after serviced. When having service done, some offer a brass gears upgrade as an option.


Used Sinar cameras have gotten so cheap that its almost easier to buy an entire rig for parts, then cannibalize that as needed.

[Captain_joe6]

There are wear parts in the Sinars. They are cameras that are meant to be service every once in awhile. Some p2s for example can be a bit loose but will be as good as new after serviced. When having service done, some offer a brass gears upgrade as an option.

There are also lubricants that need to be refreshed. The brass gearset was actually a Sinar addition from the factory, as the early P2s used nylon tracks that wore more quickly than was desired. Think of it as a P2.1 sort of deal.

The last I've seen from Sinar was, if I remember right, from Photokina 2013, someone had gone and reported back that Sinar AG was still very much in the business of supplying film cameras, in whole and in part, even going so far as to say that one could order a brand new P2 if so inclined and funded. The comparison to Fuji Japan/Fuji NA is quite apt. People need to remember that there's an ocean of difference between "we're not distributing this any more, so it won't be available" and "this is no longer made, so it will never be available again."