Pen for writing on back of Epson RC inkjet paper

[Oren Grad]

I'm looking for a pen that's suitable for marking prints intended for long-term keeping, that will write on the back surface of Epson RC inkjet papers like Premium or Ultra Premium Photo Paper Glossy.

The problem is that the surface seems to be almost entirely non-absorbent. Standard #2 pencils won't mark it, while "B" series Staedtler Lumograph pencils leave lots of loose graphite particles that smudge.

I've used a pigment pen successfully on the back of Ilford RC silver papers. But on these Epson papers, the ink eventually "dries" in the sense that it won't transfer if you blot it gently, but it will still smudge if wiped firmly.

Does anyone know of another type of pen that uses an ink that will stick to the Epson surface but still be both color-stable and otherwise safe for the print? Or some other labeling approach?

[mandoman7]

There are gel-type pens with a fine point that don't smear, and that claim to be archival on the packaging. I have a couple of black fine points that are labelled "pilot G-2" and I think its a papermate product. I can't attest to the archival claims, but can say that they won't smudge and have a nice dark look.

[jnantz]

hi oren

i just labeled a whole slew of prints just like you are talking about
and i used a ultra fine sharpie marker. it scared the heck out of me
because in days gone by i used to write on rc prints with pen
and they just smudged, smeared and had to be blotted ... and they looked
not so good, but the sharpie worked like a charm ( and dried FAST !) ...
its not too expensive and sold at any office supply store you walk into ...

GOOD LUCK !
john

[Ari]

Extra-fine or fine Sharpie, with the plastic nib.

[Winger]

Black sharpies are the only marker we used at the lab. They write on nearly any surface (must be dry) and don't come off easily. On glass, it still takes LOTS of wiping or alcohol to get it off. No idea as to the archival qualities, however.

[Oren Grad]

Thanks all for weighing in!

I always have some Sharpies around the house for utility purposes, but I'm afraid they're bad news for photographs. They'll mark the surface all right, but they're probably not safe for the long haul - Google various combinations of "Sharpies", "archival", "photograph", etc. for particulars.

I looked up the Pilot G2 and found Pilot's FAQ. A couple of short excerpts:

Q. Which Pilot products are Acid-Free / Archival safe?

All Pilot Gel Ink Pens, Ball Point Pens and Markers are Acid-free and Archival safe, meaning their inks do not contain any acidic chemicals that may speed the deterioration process of photos and documents. Acid-free / Archival safe inks contain pH levels of 7.0 or greater meaning they’re non-acidic.

Q. Which Pilot products are recommended for writing on photos?

Our top recommendation is the Pilot Extra Fine Permanent Marker or Pilot Super Color Fine Bullet point marker. Take care to also use proper photo protectors (polypropylene-based; not PVC- or acetone-based) to best preserve your photos and writing.

http://www.pilotpen.us/FAQs.aspx

[Frank Petronio]

Just a note, signing inkjets caused me all sort of hardship, nothing ever was perfect. And I am not going to cop out and sign the mat, that's bogus.

So over time I tried an embosser - a simple library type from the back of a magazine, fitted with custom dies cast in my typeface from a vector logo by an old platesetting business (now gone but other places exist to do this). It worked pretty well and I still use it sometimes. Like a pen, you can screw up a print if you are careless or unlucky.

Then I finally gave in. It's a digital print. I can add type to the image in Photoshop, I can even scan and clean up a signature if I rather not be so legible - but now I just "sign" my prints right in the lower corner of the image, adjusting the size, color, and opacity of the type to be very subtle but legible. I use the same font as my other branding. It works really well and looks good without being distracting. And nobody can erase it and it won't smear or degrade the image over time.

Just don't call it a watermark or I'll be hurt ;-(

[Oren Grad]

Thanks, Frank. Rather than put anything on the front, though, I'm happier labeling my prints on the back. But the back surface of at least the Epson RC papers seems to be designed to repel all the traditional options. Thus my problem.

[Frank Petronio]

Stickers then. Seriously, go to moo.com and order a pack of stickers for $20 and afix them on the back behind dark areas.

[Oren Grad]

Stickers then. Seriously, go to moo.com and order a pack of stickers for $20 and afix them on the back behind dark areas.

Ack, my bad, sorry. I'm being ambiguous with my use of the word "label". I'd really much prefer not to put stickers on my prints.

[Light Guru]

Ack, my bad, sorry. I'm being ambiguous with my use of the word "label". I'd really much prefer not to put stickers on my prints.

Well what are you trying to accomplish. perhaps this could help with finding the best solution.

Are you looking for archival quality? If so then I would avoid writing on them all together.

Post it Notes are also an option but they are not archival.

[Robert Brummitt]

Like Bethe,
I use to use a standard Sharpie for corrections and noting dodge and burn areas.
For signing prints, I use a Micron 01 Archival ink pen. It's a really fine point pen.

[Frank Petronio]

Won't the writing in black ink on the back of a print show through?

[Oren Grad]

Well what are you trying to accomplish. perhaps this could help with finding the best solution.

Are you looking for archival quality? If so then I would avoid writing on them all together.

I like to put a brief notation on the back of my prints, with my catalog number, what/where/when, and my name. That way, when I - or family or friends to whom I've given a print - find it in a box ten or twenty years from now, there's no mystery about what it is. I like the information to be on the print so that it automatically follows the print wherever it goes, without anybody having to think about it.

Although I try to take reasonable care in making and storing my prints, it's anybody's guess how long they will last. I just want to minimize the chance that the method I use to write on the print will make its lifetime any shorter than it would be without the marking, or that the marking itself will deteriorate visibly. For traditional FB papers, pencil works fine. Pigment pen should be safe, too, and that does seem to work OK on some RC papers - just not on the Epson ones, alas.

[Oren Grad]

Won't the writing in black ink on the back of a print show through?

Pigment pen or black marker does show through the back of Ilford RC silver papers. But the Epson Premium or Ultra Premium inkjet RC base is dense enough that I have to hold it up to a light to see through it - my markings on the rear are not visible with normal viewing by reflected light.

[mandoman7]

Thanks for considering my gel pen suggestion, Oren. I did try a whole slew of options when I went from conventional darkroom to digital prints, having happily used pencil before like everyone else. Sharpies certainly have their place in the photo studio, but they don't flow as smoothly as other writing tools, nor does the writing look very attractive, IMO. Signing prints has always been a scary process for me, as I think its important to put a personal mark of some kind on the face (or next to) of the print that's done by hand, but my penmanship is bad and prints have been ruined fairly often with foolish mistakes. At least with the gel pens, there's a nice smooth flow and your motion through the stroke is fluid rather than scratchy, giving me a fair chance of getting an acceptable signature.

[Oren Grad]

Thanks for considering my gel pen suggestion, Oren.

Thanks for offering it! :) I'll try to stop by a stationery store when I'm out on my errands later today and see if I can find the Pilot pens.

FWIW, I just tried asking Epson via their online live support. Their customer support agent suggested I use a Sharpie, and when I said Sharpies are known to be a problem his reply amounted to "oh well, we don't make pens so I don't know anything, guess you need to go search for yourself". Bah...

[Bob Salomon]

Kaiser pens will work fine for Epson papers. Available from camera stores or Gaylord.

[Oren Grad]

OK, tried a Pilot G2 gel pen. It's similar to the pigment pens I have in that the ink takes a long time to dry on the back surface of the Epson paper, and even after it appears to be dry it's still vulnerable to smudging. I think it's a bit better than the pigment ink in that respect, but still not quite ideal.

Bob, thanks for that suggestion - I should have thought to try one of the film marking pens, and I appreciate your mentioning it. I'll get one and see how it goes with the Epson RC.

[Oren Grad]

And a PS to Sharpie fans: I'm way behind the times, was competely oblivious to all the Sharpie brand extensions. Now there are seemingly a grillion different flavors of Sharpie, beyond the different tip sizes of the traditional Sharpie that I was used to. Some of the new flavors might be OK. But there's no way I can tell from the labeling or the manufacturer's promotional material. :(

[Oren Grad]

Update: I ordered a box of the Pilot Extra Fine Point Permanent Marker (item SCA-UF). It arrived today, and I just did a comparison against the Pilot G2 on the back of a scratch print on Epson Premium Photo Paper Glossy. On this surface the SCA-UF dries almost instantly and is far more resistant to smudging than the G2. "Far more resistant" means that after the first few seconds I have to practically destroy the paper to be able to get any of the SCA-UF ink off, so it's for all practical purposes smudge-proof, while checking against an earlier test sample, the G2 ink remains vulnerable even days after writing.