Sharpest 8x10 b&w film and dev recommendation

[jose angel]

Dear forum users, I love the super-sharp look of the Agfa films when developed in diluted Rodinal...

The question is: Which 8x10" film (&developer?) would you recommend in order to have a similar grain edge high-cutted effect? Graininess is not a problem, what I´m looking for is the sharpest available look. Tray proccesing. Mostly (not all) for contact printing in ordinary papers. Better if faster (320ASA). Any suggestion?

Probably, I will order it to BH´s. (Kodak, Ilford, Bergger... ) Your help will be great. Thanks.

[Gem Singer]

Hi Jose,

I have been able to achieve the effects that you stipulate with Ilford HP-5+ film and Ilford's DD-X developer.

According to Ilford, tray processing is classified as continuous agitation. Slow, intermittent agitation (approx. 10 seconds each minute) seems to result in higher acutance. So, slow down your agitation rate.

Agfa Rodinal uses potassium sulfite as the preservative, so does Ilford DD-X. I have never been able to prove it, but it seems like potasium sulfite is less grain soluable than sodium sulfite. Therefore, it results in sharper (higher acutance) negatives.

You can rate HP-5+ at an E.I. of 400, since DD-X is a speed enhansing developing formulation.

[Bruce Watson]

It seems that the absolute sharpest developer is FX-1, at least if I read Anchell and Troop correctly. They also point to Kodak High Definition Developer (HDD) and Neofin Blue. You would want to use any of these with a film of slow to medium speed (iso 100 or lower) for maximum effect.

I'd like to know, once you have tried this, if you see any of it (sharpness, edge effects, etc.) with 8x10. My bet is not, unless you are going for mega-enlargements. I say this because with 4x5, I don't see much improvement (over XTOL 1:3) at 12x enlargement, which would result in a 4x5 foot print.

Clearly, YMMV. I'd just like to know what you conclude at the end of your experiments.

[Gem Singer]

Hogarth,

Ilford introduced Ilfotec DD-X film developer after Anshell & Troop published their book. This developer was formulated especially for a higher speed film (like HP-5+, Delta 400, etc.).

It is a liquid developer, closely related to the Microphen formulation. Actually, Ilford has had a replenishable developer called DD (dip and dunk) for quite a while. It's mostly used in commercial labs. DD-X is a single shot, non-replenishable version of DD.

Jose stipulated that he wanted to use faster film (at least a 320 speed). He also mentioned that he wanted to purchase his film and developer from B&H. I wanted to make it simple for him, since both items are readily available at B&H..

[Ted Harris]

Jose,





Which Agfa film or films specifically are you referring to? I assume it is one or more of the flavors of APX but which one(s)?

[jose angel]

The print that are astounding me (printed on past sunday) was taken on APX400 120 (old stock) at 200ASA, developed in Rodinal 3+296cc, 16 min. at 20ºC., in a Jobo processor.

Some months ago, I decided to choose one-film-for-all ´to use in a Mamiya 6, and tested (I must say "use") HP5+, Bergger, Tri-X, APX400, TMY... some of them in Rodinal, others in D-76 and Xtol.

I liked Rodinal, and then I tryed it with the "winners", HP5+ and APX400: grain are much smaller with the Ilford but the look with the Agfa´s one are absolutely beautiful to me. And the prints looks so much sharper (in a medium to small size). Results are much more beautiful (-subjective-) than those that I obtained in 4x5" (TMX-TMY) and D-76 or Xtol. The effects of the filters are also great with the APX. I´m bored of the TMax films.

As APX sheet films has been discontinued, and my stock of LF film is ending, I would like to have a similar "hard" combination.

About DD-X... Isn´t it a fine grain solvent developer, Xtol type? I´m tempted to try it. I haven´t found it here, I will need to mail-order it. What life does the stock solution have?

[Gem Singer]

Hello again Jose,

DD-X is a medium-fine grained, slightly solvent developer. You stipulated high acutance, not fine grain. Extremely fine grain is not really necessary with contact printing on 8X10 film.

If it remains in the concentrated stock solution in the tightly sealed original plastic container, DD-X has a relatively long shelf life. Not as long as Rodinal, however. Developers formulated with ascorbate Xtol, FX-50, etc.) seem to have a shorter shelf life. DD-X developer was designed to be used with Ilford HP-5+ and the other fast Ilford films. It may not give the same results as Rodinal, with Agfa films.

[Andrew O'Neill]

For me, stand development of HP5+ in Pyrocat-HD (5ml part A + 5ml part B + 1200 ml water). In a BTZS tube standing up (for N development), I start with one minute constant agitation, then 30 seconds agitation after 30 minutes. Remove the film from the tube, turn film upside down and slip it back inside tube, let sit another 30 minutes. I find that the tube works better than tray for stand development. No risk of streaking or mottling. Negs are shockingly sharp compared to conventional development in Pyrocat-HD. I have examples but I don't know how to post them here.....Can anyone tell me how to do that?

[R.Hageman]

Jose, Last I heard, Kodak Technical Pan was still available in 8x10. If your looking for super sharpness, why not try that ?

[Ted Harris]

I know you are looking at higher speed films but you might want to look at the efke offerings. I have used these films and their precursor Adox emulsions for some 30+ years and developed them in Rodinal. With the possible exception of Kodak's long discontinued Pan X, the efke 25 is the sharpest film I have ever used.

[Christopher Condit]

Techpan is the sharpest. Start there, see if you can get by with the slow speed.

[Darin Cozine]

Jose, If you are contact printing 8x10 negatives, I dont see the need for super-sharp film/developer combinations.. I would suggest to look at dynamic range and smooth tonal gradation as other deciding factors of film/developer choice.

So out of curiosity, are you contact printing or enlarging your 8x10 negatives?

[jose angel]

Thank you very much for your answers. I´m tempted to start in the cheapest&easiest way, the Ilford combo. Then, I could try with different developers... I know Technical Pan, but are expensive and low speed, I prefer a higher speed film. In my city sheet film have been practically eliminated, and the only way is to buy by mail-order.

Darin, I want to enjoy contact-printing in 8x10", and I can enlarge up to 5x7". I have a very compact old metal folding 5x7-8x10" camera that I want to use for fun. I will buy 8x10" film, and cut it for the 5x7" holders if so. My fine work is done with a Canham DLC, the only film I use/available here were 4x5" T-grain Kodaks, that I really hate. I need to order also 4x5" sheets.

[Bruce Watson]

Jose,

If you are only going to contact print 8x10, there is really not much point in working with an acutance developer. I just don't think you'll see any difference in sharpness from one developer to the next for a given film when you are contact printing. Of course, YMMV.

As to t-grain films, I understand what you mean. They aren't my favorites either. I think for 4x5 and 8x10 you'll be much happier with more conventional films like HP5+ or Tri-X, both of which are high speed films, and both of which have some soul which is something that Tmax lacks, IMHO.

If you like the tonality you get with Rodinal, use it for any of the above. The grain size you get with Rodinal shouldn't be a factor unless you are doing very large prints. For contact prints, it shouldn't be a factor at all. The resulting tonality, however, will be a factor, so if you like it, go ahead and use it.