Tripod Help!

[Mister Sith]

I just acquired my first 4x5 camera, a Toyo G with a Schneider Symmar 210mm, but I don't really have a tripod to slap it onto. Unfortunately, I'm on a rather tight budget, so I can't exactly go out and buy an expensive, big name tripod. What are your recommendations for a wallet friendly, sturdy tripod that I can either buy new or used?

Thanks!

[Michael_4514]

What is your budget? Is weight a factor? Are you shooting in a studio or outdoors. Will you be taking it on hikes or no more than 15 feet from your car?

[Mister Sith]

I would like to spends less than $150 on it. Weight is a consideration, but if it was a trade off for price vs weight, I'd probably deal with potentially lugging around a few extra pounds. I like to think I would be using it outdoors, but there's a very high chance I'll probably shoot it in studio about 80% more often.

[Leigh]

One of the best tripods you can buy at any price is the Majestic. Built like a tank, and would likely support one.
The head has geared tilt which is awfully nice for leveling the camera. The tripod platform has three levels for setting it up.

They're not particularly expensive (and unfortunately relatively uncommon in the used market).

The Majestic was made in Chicago, and is still in production although I'm not sure of the current manufacturer.

- Leigh

[joselsgil]

Mister Sith,

Where do you live? Recommendations would be easier to make, if one knew where you are located.

[SergeiR]

Yeah, Majestic and air cushioned old Tiffen (can't remember who is making them later..) ones - you can get on Ebay for like 75$ with head (not ball or quick connect, but rather huge platform one) and they are just awesome - can hold a wee tank and wont budge, and provide enough flat surface for camera.

Other option is to check survey tripods..

[Frank Petronio]

Better to err on the large and heavy side, which tend to be reasonably priced used. Perhaps post a "WTB" ad here for a metal Gitzo with a pan-tilt head or an equivalent Manfrotto (Bogen)? Lots of people upgrade and will help you out if you are nice.

[Mister Sith]

Mister Sith,

Where do you live? Recommendations would be easier to make, if one knew where you are located.
I'm based out of the Bay Area in California.


Yeah, Majestic and air cushioned old Tiffen (can't remember who is making them later..) ones - you can get on Ebay for like 75$ with head (not ball or quick connect, but rather huge platform one) and they are just awesome - can hold a wee tank and wont budge, and provide enough flat surface for camera.

Other option is to check survey tripods..
Thanks! I'll definitely look into these! Are there any specific models that I should hunt for?


Better to err on the large and heavy side, which tend to be reasonably priced used. Perhaps post a "WTB" ad here for a metal Gitzo with a pan-tilt head or an equivalent Manfrotto (Bogen)? Lots of people upgrade and will help you out if you are nice.
Thanks for the tip! I would do that, but I believe there's a waiting period until I can access that part of the forum!


Also, I've been looking around on BHP and the likes, and I found a few tripods. I've been looking for a set up that is capable of holding 18lbs (which I'm assuming is a safe bet for how heavy this camera rig shall be). I found a set up with a Benro A1580F legs with a Smith and Victor BH2 Ball Head. Is this rig strong enough to bear the loads that a 4x5 view camera will put on it? Or are there criteria that tripods need to meet for a 4x5 monorail?
Thanks to everyone for the responses!

[Jim Jones]

I have several tripods, light and heavy, but almost always use an old Tiltall for 4x5 and smaller cameras. I'd still be using one bought second-hand almost 40 years ago if I hadn't lost it. It was replaced with two more, one for the car and one for the house. Some Tiltalls were recently made overseas, and may not have the quality of those named Marchioni, Leitz, or Star D. Unlike many cameras, a good tripod is a lifetime investment. It doesn't have to be new when you buy it; it certainly won't be new if you ever retire it.

[SergeiR]

Thanks! I'll definitely look into these! Are there any specific models that I should hunt for?

"Floating Action Model B Tripod With Head Davis & Sanford" is one i got. But i had even larger tiffen's head for it, so i swapped original head that came with mine (it actually would work fine for 4x5, but i wanted to use it for modified 8x10 with really heavy lenses, so i needed something with large platform). Its great, and i even had it out on 1-2 hour hikes, over shoulder, to see if i am ok with it - and i am (that + 8x10 Korona + lenses + 8 holders + water... but i am very stubborn).

They also got model A which is higher a bit, i think, but B works just fine, unless you need to shoot over high fences.

[Bill_1856]

Get a used Tiltall, made by Leica. About $100 (ebay), and the best inventment you'll ever make in photography.

[E. von Hoegh]

Get a used Tiltall, made by Leica. About $100 (ebay), and the best inventment you'll ever make in photography.

Second the motion on the Tiltall.

[Bill_1856]

Correcton: get the TILTALL made by LEITZ in New York(they were not made by Leica in Germany).

[E. von Hoegh]

Or the ur-Tiltall made by Marchioni in Rutherford New Jersey.

[Frank Petronio]

I have and like Tiltalls a lot but they would be on the light side for a 4x5 Toyo G monorail. They are usable but you won't want to try to shoot with the camera facing down towards the ground - you need to balance it carefully.

A step up in size would be ideal for the Toyo G/210. Perhaps something like a Gitzo 3-series or a Bogen with the 1.5" Aluminum legs.

Most people abhor ball heads and cheap quick releases with view cameras - if you do like a bullhead, then get a really good $$$ one. Bogen and Gitzo make good, strong, simple 3-way pan-tilt heads matched to the tripod.

I wouldn't trust the manufacturer's weight suggestions too religiously... see what people are using in practice to know what works.

I can not vouch for the sale, just using it as an illustration, but something like this size works very nicely for 4x5:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BOGEN-Manfrotto-3050-Professional-TRIPOD-Complete-3-Way-HEAD-Telescoping-LEGS-/290765543393?pt=US_Tripods&hash=item43b2fa17e1#ht_9324wt_1299

Do your homework on the seller and at your own risk but the price is right and I don't see any red flags myself....

I had a similar tripod when I started in 1983. They need to get tightened up occasionally but they have the mass and stability you need.

[Leonard Evens]

For many years I used an old Tiltall Professional tripod with my Toho FC-45X camera. That tripod is still available and will work fine as long as your camera is not too heavy.

[John Koehrer]

Another + for a tiltall. Preference to the original Marchioni Brothers. The quality seems to have gone down a bit in the newer ones though.
The downside (to me) is the knurling on the handles and leg locks which are uncomfortable because of the sharp edges(knurling)
.
The Star_D is a knockoff, Plastic handles that will break if the thing is dropped.

Neither Star-D or Tiltall have removable heads so if you want something besides a pan/tilt it's not gonna work.

The Series 3 Gitzo(Studex) I think is a slightly better choice.

[Leigh]

...so if you want something besides a pan/tilt...
Why would anybody want anything other than a pan/tilt head for LF?

- Leigh

[Mister Sith]

Thanks for the recommendations for the tiltall fro everyone! I'm eying a couple on ebay right now! But I'm also eyeing those gitzos that Frank mentioned, thanks!

[Bill Koechling]

.
The Star_D is a knockoff, Plastic handles that will break if the thing is dropped.

The Star D I bought in 1972 and still use has the exact same metal handles as the Tiltall I got in 2004. Maybe subsequent models of the Star D had plastic handles but not mine which was a true clone of the Tiltall at the time.

My Star D is now used mostly to hold an iPad for digital shoots to show clients images as they are shot.

I used the Star D with my old Calumet 4x5 for years but, though it worked, was NOT ideal.

[Frank Petronio]

http://tiltallsupport.blogspot.com/p/tiltall-replacement-parts.html

I still will warn you that a Tiltall is too light for a Toyo G but this is a good resource for reconditioning one should you choose to ignore me, as my wife and children often do.

[Bill_1856]

I disagree with Frank about the TILTALL being too light for your needs, but gotta admit that the Bogan (Manfretto) he links to looks very good. I can't seem to find any information about how much it weighs, nor how tall it is without the center column extended.

[Leonard Evens]

http://tiltallsupport.blogspot.com/p/tiltall-replacement-parts.html

I still will warn you that a Tiltall is too light for a Toyo G but this is a good resource for reconditioning one should you choose to ignore me, as my wife and children often do.

As best I can tell a Toyo G weighs over 12 lbs. The most I put on my Tiltall Pro was about 6-8 lbs, my Toho FC-45X with a 90 mm Grandagon N and a Panoramic head. The Panoramic head added some additional stress because it extended pretty far to either side, leading to levering. It was still very stable. But still that is considerably less than 12 lbs all together.

[Frank Petronio]

I disagree with Frank about the TILTALL being too light for your needs, but gotta admit that the Bogan (Manfretto) he links to looks very good. I can't seem to find any information about how much it weighs, nor how tall it is without the center column extended.

Now you have to ask me for money and you can be part of the family.

[Leigh]

I bought my Star-D new 30+ years ago. It has plastic hands that are still intact, undamaged and fully functional.
It's been all over the world. When I travel I put the handles inside the center column.

However, I do consider it a light-weight, suitable for most of my 35mm kit (except the really big lenses) and the
basic Hasselblad setup (not including the 350mm and 500mm lenses).

I don't use it for LF at all.

My concern with the load capacity is the mechanism that locks the legs when extended.
It can yield under stress, and you don't want the kit visiting the ground.

- Leigh

[DKirk]

I'm using the Toyo G with a Uni-loc MA1600 and one of the older Manfrotto hex plate ball heads and find it sturdy enough. Have a look at http://www.uniloctripod.com/ go for one of the Major series, holds up to 20lbs.

[Bill_1856]

The TILTALL was originally designed for the old 16mm Cine-Kodak, which must have weighed in at close to 15# (or at least it seemed that heavy at the time).

[joselsgil]

I would like to spends less than $150 on it. Weight is a consideration, but if it was a trade off for price vs weight, I'd probably deal with potentially lugging around a few extra pounds. I like to think I would be using it outdoors, but there's a very high chance I'll probably shoot it in studio about 80% more often.



Mister Sith,

Consider the Manfrotto 475 series. I purchased mine on the auction site for $100 without a head. I purchased a Bogen/Manfrotto 3047 head on the auction site for under $50. This setup is sturdy enough to hold my 8X10 Kodak 2D, without fear of tipping over. It is a heavy duty tripod and not too light, but since you will be using it 80% of the time in a studio. This tripod setup will work very well.

Good luck,

Jose

[erie patsellis]

"Floating Action Model B Tripod With Head Davis & Sanford" is one i got. But i had even larger tiffen's head for it, so i swapped original head that came with mine (it actually would work fine for 4x5, but i wanted to use it for modified 8x10 with really heavy lenses, so i needed something with large platform). Its great, and i even had it out on 1-2 hour hikes, over shoulder, to see if i am ok with it - and i am (that + 8x10 Korona + lenses + 8 holders + water... but i am very stubborn).


Great tripod, especially if you find one with a majestic head. But, never ever stand over one without a camera on it and loosen the column clamp. They had the nickname of "jaw buster" for a very valid reason.

You should be able to find one for well under $100, the two I have we're given to me.


Erie

[C. D. Keth]

The TILTALL was originally designed for the old 16mm Cine-Kodak, which must have weighed in at close to 15# (or at least it seemed that heavy at the time).

A movie camera has a shutter speed of 1/48s at normal speed. Especially for home movies, the standard of steadiness is pretty low.

[Pawlowski6132]

Why would anybody want anything other than a pan/tilt head for LF?

- Leigh

I only use a ballhead. MUCH easier than a pan/tilt head.

[Leigh]

I only use a ballhead. MUCH easier than a pan/tilt head.
True, if you're shooting a camcorder and don't really care which way is up.

- Leigh

[Pawlowski6132]

True, if you're shooting a camcorder and don't really care which way is up.

- Leigh

Nope. Not true. Just loosen the ball head, position the camera, tighten.

Easy Peezy.

Better than going back and forth.

Have you ever tried it? Or just spoutin' off?

[E. von Hoegh]

I only use a ballhead. MUCH easier than a pan/tilt head.

Ballheads suck, to be perfectly blunt.

[Leigh]

Yeah, I've tried it.

You must have an odd set of eyes to view two levels simultaneously.

- Leigh

[Leigh]

Ballheads suck, to be perfectly blunt.
E. and I agree, absolutely.

Hooray!

- Leigh

[Pawlowski6132]

Yeah, I've tried it.

You must have an odd set of eyes to view two levels simultaneously.

- Leigh

I usually don't level my camera. But when I do, I have a circle bubble level.

[Pawlowski6132]

Ballheads suck, to be perfectly blunt.

I have an old Manfrotto. The thing weights about seven pounds. I'm certain it can hold anyything in place I can load on top of it.

[E. von Hoegh]

I have an old Manfrotto. The thing weights about seven pounds. I'm certain it can hold anyything in place I can load on top of it.

Well, I wouldn't trust either of my LF cameras to such a contraption. I don't like them, don't trust them, and find them inconvenient to set up.

[Leigh]

I usually don't level my camera.
I'll believe that. :D Actually, for many types of photography level is not needed.


But when I do, I have a circle bubble level.
So what happens if you need to tilt the bed up to get more rise from the front lens?
You can't assess a single-axis level condition with a bubble level.

- Leigh

[Pawlowski6132]

Well, I wouldn't trust either of my LF cameras to such a contraption. I don't like them, don't trust them, and find them inconvenient to set up.

Ok Mr. Burns.

[erie patsellis]

Nope. Not true. Just loosen the ball head, position the camera, tighten.

Easy Peezy.

Better than going back and forth.

Have you ever tried it? Or just spoutin' off?

I have, and with a Sinar P 8x10 it's a sure recipe for serious damage, either to yourself or the camera.

[Bill Koechling]

Someone gave me an old, large really nice Gitzo with a Foba Superball head. I got a couple of small parts and it works BEAUTIFULLY! I love it with my Nikons. Then I put an Arca-Swiss 4x5 on it and I felt like I was all thumbs. I just didn't have the control I have with the pan/tilt head. It was really disconcerting. It's partly what you get used to but I don't think I'll get used to a view camera with a ball head where I need to control two dimensions at once in the same way I don't control shift, tilt and rise all at the same time. Maybe I'm just not a great multi tasker.

[Leigh]

Have you ever tried it? Or just spoutin' off?
Well, just to expand on my previous...

When I bought my Zone VI tripod it came with a fancy Gitzo ball head. I did try it with a couple of the cameras.

Then I took it off, threw it away, and spent a bunch of money on a good magnesium pan/tilt head, also Gitzo.

- Leigh

[Mister Sith]

http://tiltallsupport.blogspot.com/p/tiltall-replacement-parts.html

I still will warn you that a Tiltall is too light for a Toyo G but this is a good resource for reconditioning one should you choose to ignore me, as my wife and children often do.

I'm taking your word for it and trying to track down a Gitzo or Bogen. On my local classifieds, I found a Gitzo 320. I can't seem to find any documentation on, but do you think it'll be strong enough for the Toyo?
Also, if I end up getting it, I'm thinking about slapping on a Majestic geared head, what do you think?

[Frank Petronio]

The 320 is an older 3-series metal Gitzo and likely to be a good tripod but a Majestic geared head on it would be very top heavy. Ideally you'd get a Gitzo 3-series pan-tilt head to complete the tripod.

[Leigh]

The 320 is an older 3-series metal Gitzo and likely to be a good tripod but a Majestic geared head on it would be very top heavy. Ideally you'd get a Gitzo 3-series pan-tilt head to complete the tripod.
Ideally you'd get a Majestic with a Majestic geared head and have a great tripod for a fraction of the Gitzo cost.

- Leigh

[Frank Petronio]

Ideally you'd get a Majestic with a Majestic geared head and have a great tripod for a fraction of the Gitzo cost.

- Leigh

Agreed, they are usually quite reasonable too

[pdmoylan]

Completely agree with Frank on all suggestions. I have owned Tiltalls and several series 3 Gitzo's both with Rationale 3s, 4s and the modern Magnesium pan heads. For my money the gitzo combination is the best for up to 8x10 and if your inclined 500 f4 teles for DSLRs. I have never had a lost image due to shake or instability resulting from this setup- ever. The Tiltall is fine for DSLR and perhaps MSLR, but forget about low to the ground images or macro. The Tiltall has limited flexibility and is terrible for closeup work.

[Mister Sith]

The 320 is an older 3-series metal Gitzo and likely to be a good tripod but a Majestic geared head on it would be very top heavy. Ideally you'd get a Gitzo 3-series pan-tilt head to complete the tripod.

Alright, definitely good to know! Any models for heads to look for in particular?

[Frank Petronio]

Gitzo changed the names of their tripods frequently, making many subtle design tweaks. You simply have to look, and get the particulars for height, type of column, number of sections, etc. I think I used the old Gitzo 326 with a 3b head - metal legs so not too expensive, maybe $150 to $200 in a sane world. I think they later changed the name to 1326, but before that it was something else and the next closest models were fine as well.

[John Koehrer]

Why would anybody want anything other than a pan/tilt head for LF?

- Leigh

Different strokes for different folks. AKA everyone's got an opinion, oddly it may not match yours.

[Ralph Miyashiro]

I own a tilt all and like it, but I use a Gitzo. It's solid, as is Frank's advice.

[brucetaylor]

I'm a little late to the party, but for an inexpensive, rock solid tripod I think it's hard to fault the BOGEN Manfrotto 3050 Professional Frank linked to. I've had one for about 30 years it holds up anything I put on it. Worked great with my C1 8x10 which is a heavy beast. The standard supplied head has not quite been up to the task for the C1 (fine for anything smaller), I recently got one of the Gitzo pan/tilt heads which is much better. They have a nice feature that releases all the legs at once, making levelling and height adjustment quick. The crank-up column is solid. It is a bit clunky to use, and I hate to carry mine any distance because it is really heavy.