Licensing a photo to an screen printer-any thoughts?

[austin granger]

Hello everyone.

I was approached today by a screen printer who wants to use one of my pictures for a limited edition (41 pieces) serigraph. He asked about licensing and to be honest, I know absolutely nothing about how this might work. Assuming I was amenable to his plans, what's next? Should I ask him for money? How much? I really don't have even the foggiest idea of what would be in the ballpark for this sort of thing. Actually, it all reminds me of this time I applied for a job and the boss asked me how much I thought I should make: "If my figure's too high he won't hire me, but if it's too low he'll think I don't think enough of myself," etc. :) Basically, I would love to be able to earn a little dough for some film, but I don't want to scare this guy off. Any thoughts? I sure would appreciate any advise you might have.

Austin

[Frank Petronio]

What will the prints they make sell for and do they have a reasonable expectation of selling out?

[austin granger]

What will the prints they make sell for and do they have a reasonable expectation of selling out? Good questions Frank. All I know so far is that he's limiting the run to 41 12"x12" prints/pieces (I'm not exactly sure what a serigraph is). I'm thinking that maybe I should just be up front with the guy and say "Look, to be honest, I haven't done this before-what did you have in mind?"

[Frank Petronio]

Obviously if they want to sell them for $50 each or $500 each you need to know that much. Let's take everyone on good faith and with the written understanding that the deal is only for those 41 prints, nothing else - no reprint rights or anything. Then in a regular retail transaction, you being the manufacturer, you should be getting about 33% of the sale price. Of course be prepared to hear why that is too much, but at least it is a reasonable starting point.

Also less money up front is often better than the promise of more money "if they sell". Let them make the risk, not you.

[Alan Gales]

If I was asking your question, I would trust Frank's judgement.

As far as an employer asking what you are worth, I would reply "priceless". He is just fishing so he can low ball you. Let him bring up money. I would be very wary of working for someone totally unprofessional like this.

[Bill Burk]

...I'm not exactly sure what a serigraph is...

Serigraph is the art-speak term for a silk-screen print.

You could always ask for 10 prints from the run.

[Steve Smith]

I'm not exactly sure what a serigraph is

Serigraphy is another word for screen printing. He might be using the word to make it sound more exotic than it really is in much the same way as an inkjet print gets refered to as giclée.


Steve.

[Bill Burk]

...He might be using the word to make it sound more exotic than it really is in much the same way as an inkjet print gets refered to as giclée...

Exactly, except that the screen printing process really does make exquisite prints where bold graphics are part of the design.

Because you can print thick layers of opaque inks, photographs that look good as lith prints would translate well to silkscreen.

[DennisD]

Hello Austin,

I've seen and greatly enjoyed your images - In particular, the Point Reyes series.

A few thoughts on the interesting offer you received:
I would ask the printer to show you work he's done with/for other artists, photographers, etc. See if you like the manner in which he's presented the work and if his style will complement your images. This will allow you to contact the other artists he's worked with and you will be able to learn from them how the business side was handled. You may also learn from their mistakes ! Some of those people may have had more experience in this area and might offer insight in general and specifically w/r/t the person who approached you.

You should definitely be entitled to a number of "artist proofs" from the run and, ideally, be compensated based upon some percentage of the selling price as opposed to a flat fee. (unless the fee is really excellent by some reasonable standard). Frank's points above about the "promise of more money "if they sell"" and having the printer take the "risk" are very important and well taken.

Be sure that you have a clear, written agreement specifying the terms - preferably drafted by a lawyer. You are turning your artistic work over to another person, so protect your property and the value you should receive for your work. You should have the right to approve the final prints before they are released.

Remember, this individual approached you because he sees value in your work (as well as a profit for himself). You are providing a beautiful photo (whatever it is) and should be properly compensated via an appropriate agreement. By all means, do not sell yourself short !

Hope these ideas help.
Dennis

P. S. If you know a gallery owner who has been involved in publishing photographers' editions, that person might serve as a resource to consult with on this subject.

[polyglot]

More important than the price is the license and its restrictions. You want to specify (non-)exclusivity, duration, size of reproduction run, geographic domain of its use, etc, etc. You can get some good examples of photo contracts on the net.

In my experience, a single-country non-exclusive license for CD cover art is about $200-500 plus two copies of the final product so I would expect price to be in that ballpark. If it's a cracking image or cannot be duplicated (depicts things since destroyed or a rare event), then perhaps more. More rights (e.g exclusivity, long-term or worldwide use) will require more cash.

[Jim Andrada]

He who mentions money first loses. Fundamental law of business.

If you ask for $X the number can only go down from there. If he asks for $Y the number can only go up from there.

[austin granger]

I just wanted to thank you all for the good advise. I wrote the guy back, not mentioning any numbers, and basically told him that I wasn't opposed to the idea, but that I had a few questions (could I get a rough idea as to how the end piece would look, would I retain the rights to my picture for my own future use, etc) and also asked him tactfully (I think) how much he was planning to charge for his serigraphs. Unfortunately, he hasn't responded, so who knows? But anyway, I wanted to post this reply and thank you for the help-it's great to know that there's a forum like this where we can have each other's backs so to speak.

[Frank Petronio]

Yeah well sometimes they are just fishing for freebies or they have the Getty-on-Flickr approach of offering somebody "publicity" and paltry 20% of the total ~ there used to be a local postcard publisher who did that, he would solicit anyone with a pretty shot to give them to him for a credit line and 20 cards, lol.

[Alan Gales]

He who mentions money first loses. Fundamental law of business.

If you ask for $X the number can only go down from there. If he asks for $Y the number can only go up from there.

I agree.

My wife and I recently bought her a new car. Before the salesman went in to talk to the sales manager and come back with a "first pencil" price, he asked me what I was willing to pay for the car. My reply was, "As little as possible".