The new Deardorff a letter to Barry Cochan

[mougin]

I have received Wednesday the camera with 5 days of delai and not two days. I remind you that I have paid for an express sending 2 days and you have sent it by economy and then you have saved money. You promised me to refund me via Paypal for the différence but no refund. As usual you do not keep your promise.

To summarize

6 months of delay
mails without answers

I have ordered 3 lesnsboard, 1 with Copal3 and 2 with copal 1. You hane send me 3 undrilled lensboards. Perhaps do you thinsk that I am a menuisier.


Finaly the camera is arrived Wednesdays with 4 days delay. It is very nice and it is like a true Deardorff. But when open it that is not the same and pratically unusable. The focusing mouvement befor



On the other hand opened time we discover that it is almost impossible to put on her(it). The focusing movement is so hard that it hurt the fingers. The same thing for the back movment.

You will be advise to you inspire from the Ebony cameras and from their mechanical sweetness.

Really you would have try the camera before before to send it.

Thus I have spent a day to dismount the camera and to make your work of adjustment. With some sandpaper, I have rectified the before and back wood frames and adapt them so that hit slides normally with sweetness. Yet the camera is yet good working.

The back back 4x5 is very hard and it is difficult to introduce a filmholder in! The 5x7 back is good. It remains that bellows seems to me made of curious one plastic, Chinese I suppose. They are not vry nice however they are very stiff.


All this makes that your work and that your business connections are very rough, not at all in the tradition of the made in American which was the one of Deardorff.

Will you please refund me the fedex différence price.

That to make undrilled lensboard.

Very happy that this lons story is ended.

And good luck for your business.

Regards

mougin

[mandoman7]

I cannot understand buying a new Deardorff when there are so many fine used ones around.

[mougin]

I cannot understand buying a new Deardorff when there are so many fine used ones around.

I cannot understand why i have buyed a new Deardorff. It is not however a mistake of youth

[Bill Burk]

Hi mougin,


Your disappointing experience is in contrast to this user's satisfied experience...

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?89644-Deardorff-Has-Landed!!!-The-First-New-Production-V11

I am not related to the seller. But for the good of all I hope in the long-term you are eventually happy with your purchase, and that your disappointing experience turns out to have been unusual.

[mougin]

Hi mougin,


Your disappointing experience is in contrast to this user's satisfied experience...

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?89644-Deardorff-Has-Landed!!!-The-First-New-Production-V11

I am not related to the seller. But for the good of all I hope in the long-term you are eventually happy with your purchase, and that your disappointing experience turns out to have been unusual.

Thank you, the camera after disassembling and correction, (6 h work) is yet smoothly working. It is yet mine and I hope take many pictures with it. You can see my palladiums in www.platine-palladium.com and www.platine-palladium.fr.

My seller is not very serious. I am french, (bad english) and that is the first time that I am disappointed by a purchase made in the United States.

[Steve Hamley]

I might add that wooden field cameras that were adjusted and fitted where they were made may often need adjustment to be usable in a different climate. All of the new Ebony cameras (a 4x5 and 5x7) I bought needed some adjustment for the Tennessee Valley, a generally warm and humid environment. Both tightened up within a couple of days of arrival.

This is something you have to deal with using many wooden field cameras. It isn't a defect, it's the way wood responds to differing climates. Ebony says pretty much the same thing on their website (FAQ):

"3) I've noticed that in cool, dry conditions my camera movements don't feel as tight as usual. And in hot humid conditions the focusing knobs start to get stiff. Is there anything I can do about this?

The wooden parts of Ebony cameras are much less likely to expand or contract than the wooden parts of other cameras, partly because of the type of wood used, and the way it is selected and treated, and partly because of the way the cameras are constructed - the types of joints used, the large amount of metal reinforcement, etc. Nevertheless in cool, dry conditions the wooden parts will shrink slightly, and in warm, humid conditions, they will expand slightly. The former situation will cause the the camera rails to loosen slightly and feel less rigid, while the latter will cause the focusing knobs to feel very tight, and in some cases to seize up altogether." Emphasis mine

"However, the remedy to this problem is simple and is actually built into the camera design. Every wooden Ebony camera has two rectangular metal plates above the rails on each side of the camera bed. In these plates are a number of phillips screws (between 4 and 7, depending on the camera model.) If the front rails seem a bit "floppy", just tighten the front four phillips screws (two on each side) a few degrees. Everything should then feel a lot more solid. Conversely, if the front focus knob feels too tight, simply loosen these same four screws a few degrees. The same applies to the back rails and the back focus knobs, loosening or tightening the back four screws as appropriate."

Above quote from the Ebony website FAQs.

Cheers, Steve

[jack_hui]

I still haven't received mine ...... 8 months delay ......

[neil poulsen]

A few months ago, I purchased a Deardorff that was made in about 1948. (As per Mr. Ken Hough.) I was astonished; this camera is in practically new condition. I noticed that the focusing is quite stiff. I figure that it will smooth out in time.

I'm curious. What did you do the solve the problem(s) that you encountered?

[stradibarrius]

The thing that jumps out at me is the lack of response from Deardorff. I know what it is like to produce a product for my customers where they have to wait to receive the product. It is extremely important that the company respond to their customers and give them updates.

The worst thing for a company is to gain a bad reputation amongst it customers and perspective customers for being a company that is not responsive. It would be in the best interest for Deardorff and for us, if they realize that they must provide the customers with information and WE feel they are a good company to work with.

[Serge S]

A few months ago, I purchased a Deardorff that was made in about 1948. (As per Mr. Ken Hough.) I was astonished; this camera is in practically new condition. I noticed that the focusing is quite stiff. I figure that it will smooth out in time.

I'm curious. What did you do the solve the problem(s) that you encountered?

Hi Neil,

You can lube the rails. Mine was stiff as well and is smooth working now... with a little attention. Check the archives here and also I Ken's website.

Serge

[VictorC]

I did receive the final payment request, and I did pay promptly. That was a good few months ago, and I'm still waiting for the delivery to be made.
I'm beginning to get worried.

[Graybeard]

I just recieved my 5x7. Barry is shipping them but rather slowly.


I did receive the final payment request, and I did pay promptly. That was a good few months ago, and I'm still waiting for the delivery to be made.
I'm beginning to get worried.

[Jim Galli]

Deardorff!! The Harley Davidson of cameras.

[Jody_S]

Deardorff!! The Harley Davidson of cameras.

I admit I'm getting tired of hauling mine around, only to watch the whole thing start to jiggle of there's so much as a breath of wind.

[E. von Hoegh]

Deardorff!! The Harley Davidson of cameras.

Linhof!! The BMW of cameras.

My Deardorff doesn't jiggle, though.

[IanG]

Linhof!! The BMW of cameras.

My Deardorff doesn't jiggle, though.

Graflex - the Lada then :D

Ian

[peter schrager]

buy a ritter....a duh!!
have great day!!

[TheDeardorffGuy]

I admit I'm getting tired of hauling mine around, only to watch the whole thing start to jiggle of there's so much as a breath of wind.

It just needs an adjustment. No big deal. contact me off list please

[Jody_S]

It just needs an adjustment. No big deal. contact me off list please

Thanks, I was shooting yesterday and I think I found the problem. The front swing upper part curves upwards a little from the bottom. Not really a big deal for me to fix, as I'm a competent blacksmith.

[Eric Rose]

I would say Linhof's are the Benz of LF cameras and the Cambo's are the BMW's :p

[Cletus]

If Lonhof is a Benz, then what would be a Rolls Royce? Leica S2? Can a digital camera even be a Rolls?

[E. von Hoegh]

If Lonhof is a Benz, then what would be a Rolls Royce? Leica S2? Can a digital camera even be a Rolls?

Gandolfi is the Rolls-Royce.

Digital cameras are the Excaliburs of the camera world.

[Mark Sawyer]

Deardorff!! The Harley Davidson of cameras.

The new Deardorff leaks oil in the driveway?

[Graybeard]

The new Deardorff leaks oil in the driveway?

That would be if the Deardorff were the Jaguar of cameras.

[Brian C. Miller]

Digital cameras are the Excaliburs of the camera world.
Uh, so digital cameras are stuck in a rock, can only be pulled out by a child, makes a lot of noise in use, and finally is deliberately thrown into a lake.

Are people going to draw analogies of various films? Tri-X is like ..., TechPan is like..., Efke is like...

[Steve Smith]

Deardorff!! The Harley Davidson of cameras.

You have to put a pan under them to catch the oil drips?

EDIT: Darn it, others were already just as funny as me!


Steve.

[Leigh]

Are people going to draw analogies of various films? Tri-X is like ..., TechPan is like..., Efke is like...
Nope. This thread is about a camera (supposedly). :D

- Leigh

[Michael Cienfuegos]

Does that mean the Graflex is the VW or the Citroen?:confused:

[E. von Hoegh]

That would be if the Deardorff were the Jaguar of cameras.

The analogy started with motorcycles, so the oil dripping comparison would properly be any Brit bike - Norton, BSA, Triumph, Vincent, Matchless etc..

[E. von Hoegh]

Uh, so digital cameras are stuck in a rock, can only be pulled out by a child, makes a lot of noise in use, and finally is deliberately thrown into a lake.

Are people going to draw analogies of various films? Tri-X is like ..., TechPan is like..., Efke is like...

No Brian. This Excalibur:

http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1280&bih=878&tbm=isch&tbnid=KPGdYkHeZ_eSuM:&imgrefurl=http://www.dreamlimousinesdetroit.com/fleet4.htm&docid=6NRejjW2D_iNFM&imgurl=http://www.dreamlimousinesdetroit.com/images/excalibur_1.gif&w=400&h=300&ei=FmslUJPqHYTc0QHE7oHQDA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=978&vpy=569&dur=1470&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=134&ty=126&sig=104269408465861440321&page=1&tbnh=150&tbnw=199&start=0&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:19,s:0,i:176

[DennisD]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is Deardorff (Co) at this point ? I.e. Is there any real connection to the old aside from the name ? what about the new owners -their latest website news post from January sounds sincere enough, but is there a previous track record in the business ? Perhaps a news update after 7 months would be reassuring given the earlier newsletter promises.

From the OP's statements, it sounds as though the quality, parts and overall construction of today's camera are questionable - making a new Deardorff little more than a famous name brand stamped on a cheaper camera. Hopefully that's not the case.

Given some of the comments by others who ordered and made deposits but did not receive cameras, it would be appropriate for "Deardorff" to respond to them regarding the delays.

Here's hoping all is in order with this venerable name. If not, there are excellent wood body view cameras available from other fine sources.


P.S. In 1976 I bought 2 Deardorffs - used and new. I put the new 8x10 away (as a backup and possible collector's item). I had the used camera refinished by Deardorff in Chicago (Jack Deardorff) and used it for many years. Having just looked at the new Deardorff site and seeing the prices of a new 8x10 Deardorff, I should probably consider selling the camera I never used !

It seems to me that in today's market, any company selling an expensive, fine handmade product such as a Deardorff, at the prices they command, would communicate best as possible with customers awaiting an overdue special order. Sorry if I sound so indignant, but I don't think it's fair to see a list of people (who have placed good $$$$ on orders) wondering when their product will be delivered.

[Leigh]

Not really a big deal for me to fix, as I'm a competent blacksmith.
Hmmm...

Anvil, 12-pound maul, Deardorff.

The mind boggles. :p

- Leigh

[Will Whitaker]

It seems to me that in today's market, any company selling an expensive, fine handmade product such as a Deardorff, at the prices they command, would communicate best as possible with customers awaiting an overdue special order.

Well said. And I couldn't agree more. It's all the more ironic given the ability to communicate instantly and inexpensively (as in free) via email and the web. Frankly, it's inexcusable.

[Jody_S]

Hmmm...

Anvil, 12-pound maul, Deardorff.

The mind boggles. :p

- Leigh

How about a 6-oz machinist's mallet, and a precision-ground 35-lb anvil?

[RichardSperry]

If I had purchased this business or even just it's name.

And was serious about that business.

I would have somebody from my company, or myself, monitor and have a presence on sites like this(this site in particular). To address these types of concerns.

I would think that would be so obvious that this post should be completely unnecessary.

[Jody_S]

If I had purchased this business or even just it's name.

And was serious about that business.

I would have somebody from my company, or myself, monitor and have a presence on sites like this(this site in particular). To address these types of concerns.

I would think that would be so obvious that this post should be completely unnecessary.

Well, some people think the jury is still out on this whole newfangled 'Interwebs' thingy.

[BrianShaw]

... and it should be much more simple thatn that. A good businessman would just keep his word in the first place and these discussions would never happen.

[Jim Jones]

Good business men migrate to Walmart. Fortunately, fine LF camera makers are a different kind of person.

[DennisD]

I would have somebody from my company, or myself, monitor and have a presence on sites like this(this site in particular). To address these types of concerns.


Take, for example, Bob Salomon from HP Marketing - you can barely say "Linhof" or "Rodenstock" and the next moment he's posting. How many of us has he helped with a problem or question that might have gone unanswered ? He's probably one of the most dedicated and excellent product reps in the field. (I have no personal connection to Bob or HP).

That kind of attention builds strong confidence and assures the end user or professional of the manufacturer's vested interest.

[Leigh]

Take, for example, Bob Solomon from HP Marketing - He's probably one of the most dedicated and excellent product reps in the field.
Amen to that. Excellent example of what product support should be.

- Leigh

[B.S.Kumar]

Take, for example, Bob Salomon from HP Marketing - you can barely say "Linhof" or "Rodenstock" and the next moment he's posting.

You forgot "Wista" :)

Bob is THE product rep!

Kumar

[BrianShaw]

Amen to that. Excellent example of what product support should be.

Amen I say to you. But it takes a big corporation to fund a service like that. I assume Bob gets paid by HP to surf the web and be a presence. Smaller businessmen simply don't have that luxury... unless they they choose to work 24-7.

[BrianShaw]

... another is Helen, who shows up here-and-there on various forums cleaning up her companies messes. But, again, they are a bigger outfit than many.

[E. von Hoegh]

I have no experience with the new incarnation of Deardorff. But I do have experience with the old Deardorff. In 1989 I decided to refinish my V8. The original company had gone into recievership at that point, but directory assistance put me in contact with Jack Deardorff, who spent nearly an hour answering my questions, as well as giving me all the information he had regarding my particular camera, the 54th made with front swings. Jack was the real deal, and we kept in contact until his death in 2007.

[E. von Hoegh]

How about a 6-oz machinist's mallet, and a precision-ground 35-lb anvil?

How about disassembling it and bending it back where it belongs with your hands? Blacksmiths have strong hands.

[karl french]

As great of a resource as Bob is I don't think he's spending much time assembling new cameras as I suspect Barry is. Which might explain why things are moving slowly. Based on the emails we exchanged it sounded like a two person operation. How often do you get the chance to buy a brand new Deardorff? Some things are worth the wait and some extra effort.

Considering the permanence of these discussion forum threads it'd be nice if we kept it on topic as well.

[Bob Salomon - HP Marketing]

Amen I say to you. But it takes a big corporation to fund a service like that. I assume Bob gets paid by HP to surf the web and be a presence. Smaller businessmen simply don't have that luxury... unless they they choose to work 24-7.

Perhaps, but our company has a total of 8 employees. And no, I don't get paid to surf.

[Kevin Crisp]

The new Deardorff trashing going on here seems disproportionate to the original complaints. It was reportedly delivered late, and shipment was ultimately 5 days instead of 2 or 3 when completed. A camera shipped a long way -- to France, apparently -- was stiff when new. I'd have to see it to judge that, likely a change in humidity. The 4X5 back springs seem stiff -- well I am sure they are NOS Deardorff. Otherwise, it seems that these people have resurrected an iconic camera. Cue five pages of critical comments from people who apparently don't have this latest generation camera but feel they must chime in on how the business should be run.

Honestly, if I supplied this community I'm not sure I'd have patience with us.

[Leigh]

And no, I don't get paid to surf.
Well, we all appreciate the fact that you do surf.

Thank you, Bob.

- Leigh

[BrianShaw]

Well that surpises me Bob. Sorry to have made assumptions, both of which were wrong in your situation. I too appreciate your presence because you unselfishly share your knowlwdge and wisdom!

[Leigh]

The new Deardorff trashing going on here seems disproportionate to the original complaints.
In any internet forum you'll find that the original post is just a subject definition, inviting expansion on the general topic.

There have been several other complaints noted in this thread, including lack of response to emails, which is inexcusable.

You might want to review any of the threads regarding problems with Light Impressions for good examples of this general subject.

- Leigh

[Ivan J. Eberle]

One might expect that with a huge surfeit of fine large format gear in the marketplace even before the economy took a bad turn four years ago from which it has not recovered, that anyone entering this market with such a luxury item as a new Deardorff would have to offer an exemplary degree of service including prompt/near instantaneous communication as a matter of survival. Pity, if not happening.

[VictorC]

The communication was there, they kept saying the items will be delivered in 2 weeks. And guess what, it has been more than a year. I'm getting tired of it and finally requested for a full refund. Deardorff claimed the refund would take 30 days, not sure why it takes so long. Let's wait and see after a month.

[Kodachrome25]

Wow, glad I went with Chamonix...

[ruilourosa]

Well!

I have bought a 80´s Deardorff two years ago and i couldn´t be more happier with it! it was in mint state with sinthetic bellows and also with some stiffness in the rails, normal, some grease solved the issue. In terms of design is all that i could ask for. Having used chamonixes, shen haos and ebony´s! The american Derdorff holds it own and it´s a excellent camera and incredibly flexible: i manage to focus a 110 to a 600mm. So no regrets...

[Brian Ellis]

The communication was there, they kept saying the items will be delivered in 2 weeks. And guess what, it has been more than a year. I'm getting tired of it and finally requested for a full refund. Deardorff claimed the refund would take 30 days, not sure why it takes so long. Let's wait and see after a month.

One possible reason is that the company is following the Wisner Method of running a business, which is to use customers' money as working capital or to fund things other than the business. So when you ask for a refund the company has a problem because your money was used on things other than making the camera you ordered. The company says it will take 30 days to make the refund because they're counting on receiving other orders during that time and they'll use the money from other people's orders to make your refund (hopefully).

The Wisner Method is a great system for the company using it, less so for the customers, as long as the business is growing. It runs into problems when business slows down or when the owner starts using customers' money for things other than the business, e.g. to eat.

I don't of course know for sure that that's what's going on with this outfit and I'm not accusing the owner of operating that way. But you asked why a refund would take 30 days and that's one possible reason.

[VictorC]

should this be their business model, I feel like walking on a thin ice !! I did order 3 pcs of 45 and one 810, while the 810 was paid in full when they said it will be delivered in August. So the total amount is rather large..... !!

[SAShruby]

Deardorff!! The Harley Davidson of cameras.

What camera would be a Trabant? The car made from Paper... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant)

[E. von Hoegh]

What camera would be a Trabant? The car made from Paper... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant)

Holga.



Maybe that isn't fair to the Trabis...

[big_ben_blue]

What camera would be a Trabant? The car made from Paper... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant)
Would have to be a basic bread'n butter camera with unique quirks; but easy to fix by anyone and their dog in an hour. BTW, the Trabant wasn't made from paper but lots of plastic, more akin to a Saturn without any frills (steering wheel was considered an extra at purchase). My uncle drove a Trabbi ... good for Hobbits size wise. The best feature of the car was the secondary "emergency" gastank, and the car was surprisingly reliable (made the trips to Hungary and back).

[Leigh]

The Wisner Method is a great system for the company using it, less so for the customers, as long as the business is growing. It runs into problems when business slows down or when the owner starts using customers' money for things other than the business, e.g. to eat.
In the financial world that's called a Ponzi scheme, and it's against the law.

- Leigh

[Will Whitaker]

I certainly hope that's not the case. Barry's lack of communication is only hurting his business.

[SergeiR]

Its a bit weird indeed, considering that they are fairly active on ebay.

[rkmiec]

If you have a small business and are not active on the internet in at least a minor capacity I do not see you succeeding. Take this one thread as an example,a little damage control can go a long way and prevent people with no stake in this fight from adding their unflattering 2 cents. The internet allows things to explode in a matter of minutes sometimes and if you aren't there controlling the blast things will be destroyed. Better to have it blow up in your favor. Good luck to those that have cash on the line,hopefully the issues will be resolved in due time and his apparent lack of speed is due to on overwhelming amount of orders.

[Brian Ellis]

In the financial world that's called a Ponzi scheme, and it's against the law.

- Leigh

Yes, it is. But I again emphasize that I'm not saying or even suggesting that the owner of this company is operating that way. I was only answering a question about why it might take 30 days to make a refund. I'm sure there are other possible reasons besides this one (e.g. maybe excess cash has been put into 30-day CDs or some other form of investment that doesn't mature or can't be redeemed until a certain time has expired).

[Sal Santamaura]

If you have a small business and are not active on the internet in at least a minor capacity I do not see you succeeding...I'm not so sure about that. Dick Phillips never had an internet presence and succeeded wonderfully. Given the business practices he employed, I'd expect him to achieve the same level of success even if he suddenly came out of retirement today and restarted camera production. :D

[mandoman7]

Its possible for someone to be good a craftsman but poor communicator. It's also possible that someone can get a bad rap on the Internet even if they're making a sincere effort. I would agree, however, that it would be good for the company to make some conciliation.

[jack_hui]

The story is ..... I keep asking the delivery date since April, until June, I got an email from Barry saying that the parts are finally arrived, and should be able to finish within two weeks or so. Well, no information from him after that.

I keep asking the delivery date, then, until two weeks ago I got an email from him, also saying that the camera should be ready in two weeks (again!), and he claimed that mine is 5th on the line. Interesting, I remember that I am most likely the 4th or 5th guys to order from him, and I chose serial no. 8 (sorry, lucky number) for my camera. Assume he is working for the camera according to the serial number, then during the whole year, he only finished 3 cameras!!!!!

Well, it has been more than two weeks since his "2 weeks" email, I am sure Barry is doing a good job to screwup a well-known American brand name. I am sure this is the worst "shopping" experience that I ever had in my life.

[VictorC]

this whole experience with Deardorff is just too ridiculous.

It has been more than 30 days, and still nothing, not even a simple reply. The last email I'd received was telling me the refund would take 30 days.

Are they going to run away with the money?? or am I to wait another year for the refund to take place??

[Pete Suttner]

Barry charged my card when I placed an order for a 4x5 back for my 5x7. Quoted lead time was 90 days. A day or so after the order I found a better deal locally and canceled the order by phone. I did the wait and wait and call thing, sent a few emails - nothing.

I finally ended up calling daily for a couple of weeks. Got to know each other on a first name basis. He sent me a check and all is well after a long hassle.

[E. von Hoegh]

It's sad to see this associated with the Deardorff name. Poor Jack must be spinning in his grave.

[r.e.]

I don't know what Mr. Cochan has invested in producing new Deardorffs, but I think that some of the comments here and his failure to respond mean that this attempt to resurrect Deardorff cameras is finished. It is quite problematic that Mr. Cochan knew how to be vocal on the internet when promoting his "new Deardorffs", but when it comes to negative comments about communication with customers, delivery and refunds he is suddenly silent.

[Jonathan Barlow]

I don't know what Mr. Cochan has invested in producing new Deardorffs, but I think that some of the comments here and his failure to respond mean that this attempt to resurrect Deardorff cameras is finished. It is quite problematic that Mr. Cochan knew how to be vocal on the internet when promoting his "new Deardorffs", but when it comes to negative comments about communication with customers, delivery and refunds he is suddenly silent.


I had a similar experience buying and attempting to buy several Deardorff parts from Barry Cochran (The starter of this thread misspelled his name). Unfortunately, it really is as bad as others have said.

[ChristianTode]

Hi everyone,

would like to ask you about your experience with Deardorff Co.- LF cameras. I 've ordered one 8x10" which should be sent according to their confirmed information in two weeks. I have paid 100p.c. in advance and from confirmed delivery time it's three months and nothing. No answer to my emails no info. Could you tell me if - if you have some experience with direct delivery from that company - if it is their standard? or they just want to run away with my money. I asked for regular invoice and standard bank Account No. . They sent it and I've payed through bank. They confirmed receipt of 100p.c. in advance payment and.... nothing, till now one big ZERO. Really I am little bit surprised for such approach . :-( So maybe that company is not existing and on net is just their shadow or it was bad joke from their side or,....
Thanks,
Christian

[aluncrockford]

But strangely enough in the uk this is what being advertised In a highly respected photographic suppliers


http://www.processuk.net/10x8_Deardoff_View_Camera_V8_SOLD_Approx_3_week_delivery/p740597_8132578.aspx

I might need to have a word with them

[peter schrager]

Contact Richard Ritter for the BEST darn 8x10 on the planet!! And yes this is a plug!
happy holiday everyone!!Best, Peter

[karl french]

Peter, stop with the Ritter spam. There are a lot of very good 8x10 cameras out there and it's off topic.

[jack_hui]

Christian, you are not alone, I have been waiting for my camera for almost 12 months.

[ChristianTode]

Christian, you are not alone, I have been waiting for my camera for almost 12 months.

OMG:-( and did you get it at the end or he just use your money for different purpose?

Christian

[Gary L. Quay]

Deardorff!! The Harley Davidson of cameras.

Speed Graphic. The VW Bug of cameras.

--Gary

[Andrew O'Neill]

Sounds like The Ron Wisner problem from a few years back.... No?

[Jonathan Barlow]

Speed Graphic. The VW Bug of cameras.

--Gary


Isn't the Speed Graphic more like the military Jeep of cameras?

[jack_hui]

OMG:-( and did you get it at the end or he just use your money for different purpose?

Christian

Christian,

I still havent received mine ....... good luck for both of us ...

[Gary L. Quay]

Isn't the Speed Graphic more like the military Jeep of cameras?

That would do as well.

I hope all of these waiting-for-Deardorff stories end well. My Deardorff was made in 1939, and it's still going strong.

--Gary

[bjornaagedk]

I ordered a Deardorff 8x10 with extra 4x5 conversion frame from Barry Cochran on 28.th of August 2012. I paid for everything in advance, not knowing anything of this thread at that moment. I must admit I became a bit nervous after reading this thread, but luckily my camera arrived and it looks absolutely perfect. I received it on November 20. I was told 4-6 weeks for delivery, but it took almost 3 months. When the camera arrived it looked exactly as beautiful as expected, nicely packed. One of the lens boards was drilled with the wrong diameter, but I was promised it should be fixed. I had a good communication with Mr. Cochran, but could take a few days before he answered, which is not what I am used to, especially when I paid in advance for everything.
However, I would not pay in advance for anything that expensive again. Now I am waiting for Mr. Cochran to send me a new lens board with the correct hole diameter, that's it, and yes, lot's of emails with almost no answers at the moment.

[jack_hui]

Some update to my order;

I ordered two cameras from Barry, V5 and V8, with addition reduction back for each of the camera.
I paid full payment for V8, and deposit for V5.

just now, without knowing it in advance, I received my V5! Strange that I still havent paid full for V5, but it arrived eariler than V8.

However, the camera didnt come with the reduction back that we agreed. Also I can point out at least two or three functional efects from it,
Also, the camera's metal parts are still covered by those "metal dust" that makes it look like just came out from a machine shop.

I dont think I will send it back for fixing that functional.defects, I can do it myseld. But those defects can be easily seem.

Hope my V8 will arrive soon.

[rdenney]

Isn't the Speed Graphic more like the military Jeep of cameras?

Nah. It's a '52 Chevy with a six-cylinder engine and three on the tree. Owned by news reporters everywhere.

A Deardorff is a '41 Packard Super-Eight 180.

A Kodak 2D was a '58 Buick.

A Linhof Kardan Color is a 1952 Mercedes Benz 220 sedan.

Modern field cameras are like Excalibur kit cars with fake wood siding.

Rick "hoping we can finally put this important issue to rest" Denney

[ChristianTode]

I ordered a Deardorff 8x10 with extra 4x5 conversion frame from Barry Cochran on 28.th of August 2012. I paid for everything in advance, not knowing anything of this thread at that moment. I must admit I became a bit nervous after reading this thread, but luckily my camera arrived and it looks absolutely perfect. I received it on November 20. I was told 4-6 weeks for delivery, but it took almost 3 months. When the camera arrived it looked exactly as beautiful as expected, nicely packed. One of the lens boards was drilled with the wrong diameter, but I was promised it should be fixed. I had a good communication with Mr. Cochran, but could take a few days before he answered, which is not what I am used to, especially when I paid in advance for everything.
However, I would not pay in advance for anything that expensive again. Now I am waiting for Mr. Cochran to send me a new lens board with the correct hole diameter, that's it, and yes, lot's of emails with almost no answers at the moment.

You're more lucky than me. :-) ( I ordered Deardorff 8x10 on 20th of August, 12 and was told that due to fact that it is from limited series 2011 delivery time is some2-3 weeks. Tody is 26th of November and still waiting without any answers to my emails. :-(

[Cletus]

How in the H*LL does this guy get away with this? I had intended to write a big long opinion on"The New Deardorff", but I don't have a dog in the fight and should probably refrain....

I just know that if I had SEVERAL THOUSAND dollars out there and ZERO response and MANY months past promised delivery, I'd be doing a hell of a lot more than just commiserating on some internet forum and waiting to see whether I ever hear from this guy again.

[Cletus]

I feel awful for every one of you who got caught in this Deardorff...cycle...and I sincerely hope you can get some satisfaction. Eventually.

[welly]

Someone should probably speak to the Better Business Bureaux. I know I'd be cancelling my credit card and reporting a fraudulent transaction well before 6 months were up.

[atlcruiser]

Wow.....lets all jump on the bandwagon. Seems to me this entire issue was between the OP and Barry.

[Lachlan 717]

Wow.....lets all jump on the bandwagon. Seems to me this entire issue was between the OP and Barry.

That there is a bandwagon tends to contradict your contention...

[welly]

Wow.....lets all jump on the bandwagon. Seems to me this entire issue was between the OP and Barry.

...and ChristianTode (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?92204-The-new-Deardorff-a-letter-to-Barry-Cochan&p=958157&viewfull=1#post958157) and jack_hui (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?92204-The-new-Deardorff-a-letter-to-Barry-Cochan&p=958132&viewfull=1#post958132) and plenty of others have had problems with Barry.

I'm glad they've made public their problems so that others don't get shafted the way they apparently seem to be.

[Graybeard]

...and ChristianTode (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?92204-The-new-Deardorff-a-letter-to-Barry-Cochan&p=958157&viewfull=1#post958157) and jack_hui (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?92204-The-new-Deardorff-a-letter-to-Barry-Cochan&p=958132&viewfull=1#post958132) and plenty of others have had problems with Barry.

I'm glad they've made public their problems so that others don't get shafted the way they apparently seem to be.

I don't think it is a question here of being "shafted".

I actually have the V5 that I ordered from Barry last year. It arrived late and there were some problems with it. Barry resolved all of the problems to my satisfaction and paid the postage both ways for multiple trips.

Barry is operating on his own timetable; the irritation comes from the lack of communication. If Barry kept his customers updated, and his time estimates more realistic, most people would probably be disappointed but willing to accept delayed delivery. It is worth noting that Barry has reduced the price and provided a second back to early buyers as a compensation for the delay.

[VictorC]

Deardorff did offer a discount and an extra back for each camera in order to compensate the delayed delivery, but in my case it's a zero show after more than 12 months of wait. On the 12 Oct I finally asked for a full refund. The last email I've got from Deardorff was on 20 Nov asking me how I'd want the money back, also asking me the total I had paid them, and claimed action will be taken promptly. It must be the Thanks Giving holidays, because I have heard nothing from them since.

Don't want to sound like a spaz, but in all fairness, it's more than 8 grand on the line, delaying over one whole year with very minimal communication. I'm trying real hard to be a more understanding person !!!

[VictorC]

I'm glad to say Deardorff has provided me with a full refund. :)

[Fred L]

great news Victor, now what camera are you looking at instead ;)

[VictorC]

great news Victor, now what camera are you looking at instead ;)

Fred, I got a well used 8x10 and a 5x7, both Dorff....I did after all, set my mind on a Deardorff !! :)

[E. von Hoegh]

Fred, I got a well used 8x10 and a 5x7, both Dorff....I did after all, set my mind on a Deardorff !! :)

And it turned out better, anyway. You now own two real Deardorffs. They'll never be made again.

[Steve Smith]

I don't know anything about Barry Cochan or the current state of Deardorff as a company, but from reading this thread, it would seem that Barry has over-stretched himself and whilst he probably has no intent to deceive or upset his customers, he cannot do the work quickly enough to fulfil all orders in an acceptable time.

Would that be an accurate assumption?


Steve.

[E. von Hoegh]

I don't know anything about Barry Cochan or the current state of Deardorff as a company, but from reading this thread, it would seem that Barry has over-stretched himself and whilst he probably has no intent to deceive or upset his customers, he cannot do the work quickly enough to fulfil all orders in an acceptable time.

Would that be an accurate assumption?


Steve.

It would appear to be so.

It's still a shame though.

[Will Whitaker]

Would that be an accurate assumption?

But why should you or anybody else - especially the people who have money invested - have to assume anything at all? Barry's utter lack of communication is the most egregious part of this. People can be far more understanding and forgiving if they're kept informed. But when they're kept in the dark, rumors - and assumptions - take over. The grave will dig itself.

[Leigh]

The appropriate way to handle a start-up of this type is to advertise:
"Now accepting orders for delivery in July 2013, limited to 10 orders." or something similar.

This lets the customers know when to expect the product, without a lot of email back-and-forth.

Once the production line is running at a predictable pace and all the bugs are ironed out, the
schedule can be changed and the order limit increased as appropriate.

It sounds like the individual does not understand how to run a company.
That is unfortunately all too common. People start out with good intentions, but don't know
what's involved in actually meeting their commitments.

- Leigh

[Jim Jones]

. . . People start out with good intentions, but don't know
what's involved in actually meeting their commitments.

- Leigh

Yes, indeed. It is good that some people are optimistic in new enterprises. If they considered only the worst outcome, many good projects would never be started. This may also apply to Barry's suppliers. Well-established businesses have enough clout to select and prod their sources. One-man businesses may have to use other struggling providers.

[r.e.]

Barry Cochran has had no difficulty using the internet to promote his product and using email to sell it. There is also a Barry Cochran registered on this site. My working assumption is that he knows that this discussion is taking place. The alternative - that he hasn't got a clue what is being said on the internet about him and his product - just isn't credible. What's considerably more likely is that he knows precisely what is being said and has chosen, to this point at least, to ignore it. And what's certain is that he is good at communicating with his clients until he has their money in his hands, but not so good, to put it mildly, afterwards.

[r.e.]

Wow.....lets all jump on the bandwagon. Seems to me this entire issue was between the OP and Barry.

I had trouble understanding how you could make a statement like that - which flies in the face of the facts - until I did a search and found out that you had previously written a rah rah post about Mr. Cochran and his proposed Deardorffs.

[Ramilo]

Has anyone heard from Barry Cochran? I am have called him at his shop and left messages. I also called him on his cell phone all week but no answer. I ordered the 2011 special edition 5x7/4x5 camera number 15 from him. Am also still waiting for the other items on the 8x10 V-8 that he promised for the delay. Any assistance from anyone would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Jon Shiu]

I have contacted him on ebay for small parts and had very fast response and service.

Jon

[Jonathan Barlow]

My experience ordering 3 Deardorff items from Barry on eBay in May of 2012. Also note that he continued to list these parts on eBay as "in stock and ready to ship" throughout my long wait. I'm in the United States:



Sent: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:55:10 (MST)
Subject: Re: I haven't received my item yet: Jonathan sent a message about Deardorff 8x10 Front Swing Conversion Kit, everything you need, NEW #230717241795

Dear Jonathan,

I'm sorry that you feel that you were lied to.
Let me provide you with a bit more information, hopefully that will help explain things.

The email sent to you on June 4 saying that" the parts had been dropped off and were awaiting only polishing" was sent by Mitzi, the woman who does most of our packing and shipping.
As she mentioned in that email, I was out sick with 102 fever, so she was just trying to answer emails in my absence. So, it's obvious that the June 4 email was sent by Mitzi, not by me.

When I got back to work on June 5, I learned that you still wanted a refund, so I tried to get it out right away. I'm not sure that the refund was processed that day, but I'm sure that it was processed soon after your request. That's when I promised to send you the refund and send you the parts as well---, but as I said in the email---as soon as possible. Maybe that wasn't clear, but what I meant was that they still weren't ready, and they still aren't as of now.

If an email went out to you saying that your parts had been shipped, that must have been a mistake. We still don't have the front swings.

I've been as forceful as I think that I can be with the vendor, and I'm hoping that we have parts this week. It's hurting our production and sales, so we really do need those parts.
And, I still assure that you that we'll mail out a front swing assembly to you the day that we have them. We'll be sending you a lens board as well, we have those in stock, just wanted to ship everything together.

So, I am truly sorry about this, and will still work to get your parts out to you as soon as possible.
Beyond that, if there is anything else I can do for you, let me know and I'll try to meet your request.


Barry & Monica Cochran
LF Deardorff & Sons, Inc.
(*A registered US Trademark)

"Make the correction on the negative..."

Physical Address:
3505 Adkisson Drive, Suite 109
Cleveland, TN 37312

Phone: 423-478-6493
Web: www.deardorffcameras.com
eBay Seller: Attrevida
(*Visit our eBay store there for "LF Deardorff & Sons, Inc.)




----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:12:21 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: I haven't received my item yet: Jonathan sent a message about Deardorff 8x10 Front Swing Conversion Kit, everything you need, NEW #230717241795

Dear attrevida,

Hi Barry,

How about the message below that I received on June 4 stating that the parts were in and just had to be polished, and should be ready to ship the next day? How about the message I received on June 7 letting my know that the parts had been shipped?

Is anything I said in the feedback untrue? If the facts change I should be able to revise the feedback, but the truth is that it appears that I've been lied to repeatedly, which isn't very nice. I'm a Deardorff user and fan and I'd hate to see the company fail again.

Thanks,

Jonathan




From: attrevida
To: Jonathan
Subject: Re: I haven't received my item yet: Jonathan sent a message about Deardorff 8x10 Front Swing Conversion Kit, everything you need, NEW #230717241795
Sent Date: Sat 6/23/2012 6:43 PM PDT

Dear Jonathan,

Sorry that you posted the negative feedback for us. We did agree to refund your purchase price, and to go beyond that and ship you the parts anyway---when they were available. Sorry that we haven't gotten back with you on that, but the reality is that we're still waiting on our vendor for those parts And, as promised, we will ship those parts to you at no charge---again---when they are available. There's nothing we can do short of that. Again, my deepest apologies, we've had to turn down orders for things that we should have taken delivery on long ago. The vendor is not totally without excuse, they've had a couple of deaths in their family and some other unforeseen circumstances. But, we're still at their mercy. And, there isn't really anything else we can do about that. I am indeed sorry that you're angry with us, we're doing the best we can. And, in spite of it all, we do plan to keep our promise, we will ship the parts to you at no cost, hopefully this week. That's all.
- attrevida



________________________________________
From: attrevida
To: Jonathan
Subject: Re: I haven't received my item yet: Jonathan sent a message about Deardorff 8x10 Front Swing Conversion Kit, everything you need, NEW #230717241795
Sent Date: Jun-04-12 13:02:35 PDT
Dear Jonathan,

No problem
- attrevida



________________________________________
From: Jonathan
To: attrevida
Subject: Re: I haven't received my item yet: Jonathan sent a message about Deardorff 8x10 Front Swing Conversion Kit, everything you need, NEW #230717241795
Sent Date: Jun-04-12 12:51:23 PDT

Dear Jonathan,

Hey Jonathan, I just found out that the machinist dropped the parts off last night. They just need to be polished and put together. I am told it will be ready to ship tomorrow. Barry is out sick today so I didn't have the latest update. Do you still want to cancel your order or do you want us to ship it out tomorrow?
- attrevida



________________________________________
From: attrevida
To: Jonathan
Subject: Re: I haven't received my item yet: Jonathan sent a message about Deardorff 8x10 Front Swing Conversion Kit, everything you need, NEW #230717241795
Sent Date: Jun-04-12 10:59:40 PDT

Dear Jonathan,

Hi, I am sorry there has been a wait on you order, our metal supplier has had some emergencies (one was the death of a child).They are currently trying to get our supply worked on. I have the lensboard already drilled to 46mm. Would you consider letting me ship that out to you right now and giving us a little more time to get our order from the metal supplier? If you would still like to cancel the whole order just email me back and I will let Barry know what you want to do.

Thanks,
Mitzi (shipping)



Hi Jonathan,

I will send your request to Barry and he will handle the refund.

Thanks,
Mitzi
- attrevida



________________________________________
From: Jonathan
To: attrevida
Subject: Re: I haven't received my item yet: Jonathan sent a message about Deardorff 8x10 Front Swing Conversion Kit, everything you need, NEW #230717241795
Sent Date: Jun-04-12 11:07:38 PDT
Dear attrevida,

Hi Mitzi,

I would like a full refund.

Thanks,

Jonathan



________________________________________
From: Jonathan
To: attrevida
Subject: I haven't received my item yet: Jonathan sent a message about Deardorff 8x10 Front Swing Conversion Kit, everything you need, NEW #230717241795
Sent Date: Jun-03-12 12:44:22 PDT

Dear attrevida,

It's been 34 days since I paid for the 8x10 front swing conversion kit & lens board. I'd like a refund of the $340 that I paid for these items on April 30.

Thanks,

Jonathan



________________________________________
From: Jonathan
To: attrevida
Subject: Shipping: Jonathan sent a message about Deardorff 8x10 Front Swing Conversion Kit, everything you need, NEW #230717241795
Sent Date: May-29-12 17:45:11 PDT

Dear Jonathan,

We'll get one or both items out to you by Friday.
Thanks,

Barry C.
- attrevida



________________________________________
From: Jonathan
To: attrevida
Subject: Shipping: Jonathan sent a message about Deardorff 8x10 Front Swing Conversion Kit, everything you need, NEW #230717241795
Sent Date: May-29-12 13:20:16 PDT
Dear attrevida,

It's been a month since I paid for the 8x10 Front Swing Conversion Kit & Lens Board. I know you said you were waiting for the top corner brackets, but can you please ship the conversion kit & lens board now? I can wait for the brackets.

Thanks,

Jonathan



________________________________________
From: attrevida
To: Jonathan
Subject: Re: Details about item: Jonathan sent a message about Deardorff 6x6 Round Corner Lens board, undrilled, Brand New #330681056851
Sent Date: May-20-12 11:04:08 PDT

Dear Jonathan,

Spoke with our vendor, the top corners are supposed to come in next week.
So, it still seems to make the most sense to wait and ship everything together.
Thanks for your extended patience, we normally ship almost the same day.

Barry & Monica
- attrevida



________________________________________
From: Jonathan
To: attrevida
Subject: Re: Details about item: Jonathan sent a message about Deardorff 6x6 Round Corner Lens board, undrilled, Brand New #330681056851
Sent Date: May-20-12 06:08:19 PDT

Dear attrevida,

Hi Barry,

Thanks for letting me know.

Jonathan

[Jonathan Barlow]

________________________________________
From: attrevida
To: Jonathan
Subject: Re: Details about item: Jonathan sent a message about Deardorff 6x6 Round Corner Lens board, undrilled, Brand New #330681056851
Sent Date: May-17-12 14:41:31 PDT
Dear Jonathan,

The hold up has been the top corner brackets, which were supposed to be ready over a week ago.
I'm supposed to find out tonight when these will be ready, then we can ship it all out together.
If the top corners are going to take much longer than a few days, we'll go ahead and ship the other parts.

Take care,

Barry C.
- attrevida



________________________________________
From: Jonathan
To: attrevida
Subject: Re: Details about item: Jonathan sent a message about Deardorff 6x6 Round Corner Lens board, undrilled, Brand New #330681056851
Sent Date: May-15-12 12:23:13 PDT
Dear attrevida,

Hi,

Can you tell me when the 8x10 front swing conversion kit & lens board (46mm hole) will ship? It's been two weeks.

Thanks,

Jonathan



________________________________________
From: attrevida
To: Jonathan
Subject: Re: Details about item: Jonathan sent a message about Deardorff 6x6 Round Corner Lens board, undrilled, Brand New #330681056851
Sent Date: May-03-12 07:25:08 PDT

Dear Jonathan,

Hi, We can take care of drilling it 46mm.

Thanks
- attrevida



________________________________________
From: Jonathan
To: attrevida
Subject: Details about item: Jonathan sent a message about Deardorff 6x6 Round Corner Lens board, undrilled, Brand New #330681056851
Sent Date: May-01-12 14:54:23 PDT

Dear attrevida,

Hi Barry & Monica,

I'd like you to drill a 46mm hole in this lens board.

Thanks,

Jonathan

[Jonathan Barlow]

Although Barry generously offered to refund my money and send these items for free after the long delay, it's December and I haven't received a thing from him. The only part I really regret is revising the honest, negative feedback that I left for him on eBay.

[ChristianTode]

I can not imagine why Barry is working like that and damage name of Deardorff . If it is some bad joke from his side or he is sick? Who knows but waiting for my ordered and paid camera has start point and .. The End. In the end or we have a camera, which we ordered or money back or are on the way to lawyers which are happy, :-(

[ChristianTode]

We could make list of clients which ordered, paid and are still waiting more then announced delivery time.
I am first
8x10 , - set of "2011 Limited Edition" Deardorff 8x10 camera kits.
Each "kit" included an 8x10 camera, two backs, three lens boards, and a Linhof Technika Adapter Lens Board.
The "kit price" on these was $ 3995. :-)

[Ramilo]

I am still waiting for my 2011 limited edition 4x5 camera #15. Also waiting for my 8x10 backs, three lens boards, and a Linhof Technika Adapter Lens Board and zero camera case.

Did anyone get a receipt for their purchase? Did anyone get a certificate of authenticity for their limited edition?
Did anyone else pay in full?

Has anyone else requested a delivery date for their items? I have, but have not gotten a definite answer from Barry.
I am hoping he can come through soon with his delivery.

[ChristianTode]

2 Ramilo: Same as I ordered so called limited edition just another size- 8x10, rest is the same I've ordered and paid on 20th August, 2012 and not receive anything till now. So I think that best way will be use some another way to persuade Barry or refund money or send immediately . :-(

[Robert Langham]

A close friend of mine bought three 5X7 Deardorffs off Ebay. All were usable and two really nice. I shipped two of them to the Western Bellows fellow in Los Angeles and had them re-bellowed. He's out of business but not quite out of work. Quite satisfied with his rebuilds. My friend had tried installing bellows bought off the net himself without much satisfaction.

With all the complaints about buying from DeardorffI can't imagine not buying a used one. I have zero complaints off ebay and have updated lenses several times, bought cameras, et, et. I even upgraded from Commercial Ektar to wide-field Ektar in one case!

85838

[Ramilo]

Where is Barry? I have been calling him and leaving messages. I called his personal cell phone and he is not picking up. He said he would call me, but no call. I'm beginning to get very angry about this situation.

[DennisD]

You have a right to be angry, as do many others who contributed their experiences of no communication and orders placed but not delivered by the the vendor.

IMHO the characteristics displayed by Mr. Cochran and the new Deardorff are very much those of a business in serious distress, to wit: lack of communication with customers, or dishonest replies / false promises (when there is communication) and, ultimately, failure to deliver substantially on outstanding orders. While Mr Cochran may have good intentions to deliver, far too many people have experienced and continue to experience problems.

Even though some people may have received cameras, based on responses on this forum, it appears many more people are waiting without appropriate answers. Meanwhile, the expenses of running a business are continuing for Deardorff, coupled with the company's apparent inability to produce product at any meaningful rate. Eventually, Mr. Cochran may decide it's not possible to continue.

Given all the concern expressed in this thread over the last six months, consider the following:

It might be worthwhile for concerned customers to group together, each contributing a small amount to a "kitty" and appointing a volunteer from this thread as a spokesperson. The spokesperson is charged with contacting a local attorney to speak directly with Cochran. The idea is to get a reading on what's really happening on the ground and to get some answers. PLEASE BE CLEAR that I'm not suggesting legal action, but merely information gathering by a responsible 3rd party. I would imagine that with an hour or two of time spent, a reasonable lawyer may be able to get answers, some action or worthwhile information that will benefit the group. Certainly, Mr Cochran will be made aware of the growing concern of a larger group of people who are willing to band together.

I trust this suggestion is not out of line with any rules of the forum.

[kapro]

So,in addition to cases mentioned above here is my story:

This is the summary of my three orders paid via PayPal on 20th, 21st. and 23rd of February 2012

One 8x10 Deardorff Camera;
4x5 Reducing Back;
Linhof Lens Board Adapter;
Four 66RC Lens Boards, drilled to customer specs
packard shutter box ($ 225);
the new packard shutter ($ 240);
bulb/hose/fittings we'll need to do the installation
brand new Packard with 4" hole
brand new 8x10 to 5x7 Deardorff reducing back

In two different parcels (the last in October) I have already obtained:
One 8x10 Deardorff Camera - camera has been incomplete, the ground glass has been missing
Four 66RC Lens Boards, drilled to customer specs-faulty diameters drilled
packard shutter box ($ 225);

Missing:
ground glass for 8x10 Deardorff camera
4x5 Reducing Back;
Linhof Lens Board Adapter;
the new packard shutter ($ 240);
bulb/hose/fittings we'll need to do the installation
brand new Packard with 4" hole
brand new 8x10 to 5x7 Deardorff reducing back

There have been dozens and dozens of emails, phone calls, promises, excuses etc. I had to involve my uncle living in US. He contacted Better Business Bureau in Chattanooga and Tennessee State Consumer Affairs Divison v Nashville. If this doesn't help I'll start legal procedure.

[Dakotah Jackson]

Orders paid for nearly a year ago and not delievered by now are not a good thing for anyone. When one talks to an attorney you need to explore the possibility of forcing Involuntary Bankruptcy. I know when owed payment by Printroom, an online photo processing and sales website for my sports photo work the real threat of forcing the corporation into Involuntary Bankruptcy got my money delivered to me by courier the next day here in North Dakota. Then I quit everything with them.

If you paid by credit card you better contact the Card company and get them involved.

Shades of Wisner and a certain Film supplier in business practices here.

[DennisD]

IF YOU'RE STILL WAITING FOR A DEARDORFF CAMERA ORDER, this might be of interest:

A good friend of mine mentioned he recently inquired about purchasing a new Deardorff 8x10. He said that Barry Cochran wrote him a very cordial email saying this is a great time to place an order.

DELIVERY... JUST 6 WEEKS ! ....and best to hurry because the price goes up by $400 in mid January. The email included Cochran's cellphone and home telephone numbers in case my friend wanted to place an order.

Did Mr Cochran forget about all his previous orders and commitments ???

[Ramilo]

Let's see the email if its true.

[Ramilo]

Forgot to mention. Barry did promise me my camera order be delivered in 6 weeks. This was back in March.

[Dakotah Jackson]

Forgot to mention. Barry did promise me my camera order be delivered in 6 weeks. This was back in March.

Did he say just which six weeks?

[goamules]

This is why I never pay in full up front for something that hasn't even been made yet. The people that did were basically financing his business endeavor. This is NOT something you do, we're not venture capitalists, we're consumers. HE needed to get his own funding and operating cash, build some cameras based on anticipated demand....taking all the risk himself...and only ask for payment when a cameras is sitting on the bench complete and ready to be shipped.

Lots of uncommon, slightly in demand things like this are marketed with the "pay me now....I'll get back to you later" method. And lots of people get caught up in the excitement and forget their common sense. I would have paid maybe a small deposit, I've done that when I've ordered a custom target rifle (which didn't require payment in full until it was ready, almost FOUR years later.)

[DennisD]

Let's see the email if its true.

Ramilo,

My friend is not a forum member at this time and is somewhat reluctant to have me openly post the message.
I have seen the email and it's exactly as described.

Anyone can make the same inquiry for an 8x10 and will, no doubt, get the same response from Mr. Cochran.

My friend will provide a copy of the email privately to anyone that needs the contact information (phone numbers). Send me a PM with your email address.

[Jac@stafford.net]

I laughed! (http://www.digoliardi.net/butcher1.jpg) I am reconsidering the field 8x10. The Linhoff is getting heavy in my old age. :) The Century 1 field camera is great for all but large lenses (http://www.digoliardi.net/voigtlander7/index.htm). (You know that lens.)

Very sorry to learn of Mr. Cochan's difficulties. He has been great for all my parts orders.

[Drew Bedo]

Back in the eighties, Fred Picker had problems with delivery of the third model Zone VI cameras too. Hope this gets worked out.

[e]

Seems to be a problem in the LF camera industry every few years..
I wonder why people arent paying with a credit card though..
At least they would have some recourse..
And if he goes bankrupt..
You cant get blood from a stone..
Of course..maybe a bunch of lumber and unfinished parts..could be gleaned..
But the cameras look pretty nice..
I can see why people thought the best..

[Ramilo]

pm sent

[Ramilo]

Things appear to be working out. Monica Cochran called me today and said my stuff will be delivered in a few days. Hoping all is accounted for.

[ChristianTode]

I got an email from Monica with an apology and a promise to send ordered camera in a few days. So, we'll see if some change will come with new year. :-)

[austin granger]

Hi all. I stumbled across this thread after ordering a 4x5 back for my Deardorff Special and have been eyeing it nervously since. I placed the order on December 23rd and received the back today. Everything is as it should be. In any case, I know it's not the same situation as those of you who have been waiting for cameras for months, but I thought it might give some small comfort to know that there is someone there on the other end working on things, however slowly. Best of luck, Austin

[Ramilo]

I received my 4x5 special edition. It is a truly gorgeous masterpiece. The wood finish and metal are refined and exact to the detail. The camera is backed by a 10 year warranty.

For those who are still waiting, I know what you are going through. There are a few internet scammers within the photographic community that spoil it for us. These scammers will be weeded out, they create and destroy their own reputations. LF Deardorff and Sons is not one of them. If you have ordered your special edition or any other camera for that matter, I recommend to wait it out. Barry and Monica will get it delivered. You will be happy with your purchase.

[Jonathan Barlow]

Gee, I'm still waiting for what Barry so generously offered me. In fact, I'm holding my breath. Oh, wait, I suffocated and died six months ago.



PS: Get back to me in 10 years about that warranty.

[jack_hui]

Strange that people ordered their camera last year, can actually receive their camera earlier than me, which I ordered in yr 2011. I am still waiting for my 8x10 camera from Barry.

[IanG]

Saw a brand new 14"x17" Deardorff Special on the Harman/Ilford stand at Focus on Imaging, (UK trade photo show), belongs to a customer who loaned it to Ilford. It ahd just arrived in the UK, so cmaeras are being shipped.

Ian

[ChristianTode]

2 Ian: I guess that not. I ordered and paid 8x10" limited 2011 which according to Barry was on stock. I received email 2 months ago that some parts are broken and some missing so in two weeks they are going to send it!! And if I want so they will send me how it looks. Unfortunately again one big ZERO. So I am going to visit DLA Piper with question what to do.:-(

[jack_hui]

I purchased a second hand V8, and looking for a replacement bellow from ebay, found a seller (local) is selling it.

I called and talked to him about the arrange, we also talked about the new Deardorff, he told me that Barry did order several bellows from him, and the worst part is that Barry didn't pay the last 10 bellows. I am not sure he was telling the truth, but the seller did remind me about Barry's financial issues ..... good luck to all of us ....

[Dakotah Jackson]

Barry, get in gear guy and make good on all this stuff. A shame to waste the positive press in the current edtion of View Camera magazine. Don't go down the Wisner path, it leads nowhere.

[Jonathan Barlow]

Barry, get in gear guy and make good on all this stuff. A shame to waste the positive press in the current edtion of View Camera magazine. Don't go down the Wisner path, it leads nowhere.


That View Camera magazine article could mean new orders and more cash. Maybe he can finally ship more old orders.

Why does it seem like he's running the company like a pyramid scheme?

[goamules]

You mean a Ponzi scheme. Like Berni Madoff. He used new investors money to pay the farcical dividends his cooked books showed the longer investors should be making. When too many started demanding what they'd paid for all at once, his company instantly collapsed.

[davisg2370]

It could be as simple as not knowing how much work would be involved in running a business or not expecting as many orders as he got. I remember his original posts about it. I think the dream of being a camera builder didn't quite match reality and he is struggling to keep up. I think anyone wanting to do this should learn from the few who do it successfully, like Ebony cameras and Keith Canham.

[Renato Tonelli]

It could be as simple as not knowing how much work would be involved in running a business or not expecting as many orders as he got. I remember his original posts about it. I think the dream of being a camera builder didn't quite match reality and he is struggling to keep up. I think anyone wanting to do this should learn from the few who do it successfully, like Ebony cameras and Keith Canham.

+1

Common sense, pure and simple.

[goamules]

The number one rule for customer service is communicate everything. How many people have heard nothing? How many cameras have been delayed? For how long? How many cameras have actually been shipped? How many did his production plan for each month? How many orders above their production capacity would he allow? What is the priority for delivery, as I've heard some people received cameras who ordered after others? Basic questions, that need communication from the company. If it is a company. I'd never send a half down deposit into la-la land without some confidence in these questions.

[Jonathan Barlow]

You mean a Ponzi scheme. Like Berni Madoff. He used new investors money to pay the farcical dividends his cooked books showed the longer investors should be making. When too many started demanding what they'd paid for all at once, his company instantly collapsed.


You're right; I should have said Ponzi scheme, where in this case the customers are the investors and the return on investment is delivery of a camera. He's borrowing from new customers to finance old orders.

[Drew Bedo]

Just got the Jan-Feb issue of View Camera Magazine (Its mid March right?). There is a major article on the new Deardorff cameras which is favorable in describing them as high quality and true to the original. There is also a big ad on the back cover.

I really hope they can get it together and become a strong American LF mfgr. My recollection is that Fred Picker also had a tough time meeting orders for a while. Wisner too. Hope Cochan doesn't go the way of Wisner and Zone VI.

[Jody_S]

It's a fairly common problem for start-up companies, or craftsmen in this instance, taking orders for large numbers when their fabrication methods and supply lines aren't finalized or require a lot of labor and don't upscale very well. But without financing, the start-up really has no choice but to do this as the only way these problems can be solved is by working through them one by one.

I really hope he does get it all worked out, the Deardorff name is a good one, the camera is a good product, and it looks like there are quite a few people willing to buy new large format cameras. Plus, there are quite a few of these cameras out in the field, and they do periodically require maintenance and parts.

[Sal Santamaura]

...the Jan-Feb issue of View Camera Magazine...There is a major article on the new Deardorff cameras which is favorable in describing them as high quality and true to the original. There is also a big ad on the back cover...Isn't that a coincidence! :D

[Ken Osborne]

I will try and make this as short as I can but it is going to be difficult. I have been a large format shooter for around 25 years. I own a Gallery/Photography studio just outside Houston. As the digital age came in I worried that our wonderful large format medium would disappear. I decided to try and start a small large format camera co. When I heard that Deardorff was starting back up I was delirious. I contacted them and spoke to Barry Cochran about the idea of building a private label camera for me. He was very excited about the idea and was more than willing to build something unique with both of our names on it. I was to buy a prototype and work with it and come up with a redesign that I felt would make the perfect camera. After shooting large format for so long I felt I could make some minor changes and make a camera that I would be proud to sell and advertise as the perfect large format camera. One of my issues was wide-angle lenses. I wanted to be able to use a 65mm with as much ease as possible. Barry explained to me that everything I wanted was easy for him to do and there would be no problem to do it. We would have a camera like no other in the world when we were done. I cannot tell you how excited I was about this and having the Deardorff name on it made everything so much better. It just seemed everything was coming together with perfect timing. After many e-mails and telephone conversations I ordered a prototype. Barry charged my credit card for the camera in full and at full price. He told me I would have the camera, 2 lens boards and a Linhof adapter in 30 days. That was the last time I ever heard from him for 6 months. After the order was made I started my advertising. I have a gallery that I do wine/art shows in to bring in people. A lot of the guests are Photographers. I also had other reputable companies involved. Ries and F:64 to name a few. BTW: I am very happy with these two companies. (Every time I do one of these shows it costs me around $2,000 to put on) 30 days went by…then 2 months…then 3 months. I started to get nervous for I was getting the word out about this prototype and I could not get any phone calls returned or e-mails. Then one day 6 months after a package arrived on my back deck. This was after numerous un-returned phone calls and e-mails. I opened up the box and was surprised that it was my camera. There was no Linhof adapter that I needed. I wanted to play with Linhof recessed lensboards with it and wide-angle lenses. I took the camera and messed with it and came up with the changes that I wanted to make. Most of them were very simple. I e-mailed this to Barry and his response was …We are not in any position to make changes. Now the camera says on it…PROTOTYPE. This usually means a product I development. In the beginning he told me he could make any changes and the ones I was pointing out were those changes. I did not change anything that we did not talk about before I ordered his camera. I have all the e-mails that spelled out all changes and costs. What the hell was going on here? All of a sudden I was dealing with the Twilight Zone and Rod Serling had turned into Barry Cochran.

I had already planned art shows to highlight this camera so I went ahead with them. I was very nervous doing it for I knew I could not take any orders or answer any questions correctly until I heard back from Mr. Cochran. I basically told people the camera was a prototype (which says on the camera…PROTOTYPE). At this point I was into my 3rd art show and people were starting to get interested but leery. I called and called Barry with no success. I must have called and e-mailed him 4 dozen times with no answer. I finally had my wife use her cell phone from work and call Deardorffs office. She called me and told me Barry answered the phone on her first call and to call him immediately while he was still there answering the phone. I immediately called did and went immediately to voicemail. I tried again and voicemail again So Barry knew my phone number and was avoiding me. What a crappy way to treat someone who is trying to do business with you. I was getting furious about all this for I have never dealt with a company like this. I sent him a strong e-mail, which I got an immediate reply. “All correspondence will be conducted through my attorney. WOW”…what a way to treat people. He is so chicken shit that he cannot even talk to us? I mean I am in kind of a bind here. I have spent all this money, got other companies involved, advertised to future customers about this camera and you cannot just talk to me. To this day I have not heard from his attorney nor had any e-mails or phone calls returned. BUT: I did notice his e-bay store is up and running and he is still taking orders for cameras in the UK. What a piece of SHIT! To make matters worse I finally took the camera out for a spin last week. I felt so mad about this but thought…well at least I got a camera out of it. I spent 2 days using it to photograph down in Galveston, which is a 2 hr. drive. When I got back and processed the film…ALL WERE FOGGED. I could not believe it. I had to find out what was the problem here. I never though of doing a bellows light test on a new camera like I do on a used one but guess what? I found 8 light leaks in the bellows. 3 were severe where the bellows is joined to the front standard. I am talking 1/8-1/4 inch gaps. Now taking closer examination you can see where this camera was rushed and just slapped together. I started noticing imperfections all over the thing. The focusing is absolutely horrible and so stiff that the focusing knobs almost slip out of the rail. This is not caused by humidity or anything…this is caused by bad workmanship. I own a lot of wood 4x5’s and have no problem with any. So far I have not heard a word from this spineless bastard. After all this I found this and other forums and it seems there are people all over the world looking for this willow of the wisp. I wish I would have looked into forums before all this but I thought I was dealing with a reputable co. AND BTW: Deardorff has a full page back cover ad on large format magazine and a great write up on them also in it. What a crock of SHIT!

[ChristianTode]

As many of you I am still waiting for my 8x10" ( 8 months ) and I would like to know how many of us are in that queue.

[wager123]

my question to all you folks is why are you waiting start demanding your money back or the camera there is no excuse for this he needs to go out of business not given chance after chance .
mitch

[ChristianTode]

I don't know how others but I talk with local DLA Piper and regarding to them it will be helpful if more customers will be in that case, not only to reduce price but for subject of claim- complaint. http://www.dlapiper.com/global/locations/

[Steven Tribe]

This situation has gone on so long that some kind of radical solution must be under consideration by the current owners of the Deardorff trademark.

This manufacture of artisan built mahogany cameras in small numbers can never be much more than a break-even sort of venture and I can't imagine that rescue capital would be available without the sale of the Deardorff name and goodwill (?).

Obviously, the longer the current "in limbo" situation continues, the less attractive the name will be.

[davisg2370]

The complaints are sounding more and more like those about Light Impressions.

[Eric Biggerstaff]

Holy smokes everyone!

I have not been reading this one but as I just got a new to me (read that used but wonderful) Deardorff I thought I would take a look. From the sound of things, there are some issues! Usually, there are two sides of a story so it is too bad that the new owner has not been on to perhaps provide a different viewpoint. Heck, it is his company after all.

That said, has anyone thought of finding a third party who has no skin in the game to perhaps act as a moderator, someone who can work with both sides to come to some sort of resolution? I wouldn't think you would need a professional, just someone who might act with a calm head, listen to both sides and work towards a resolution.

Just a thought.

[IanG]

Eric, another side is to look at Barry's parts sales on Ebay, he gets a faster turn around with less outlay, and he'sprobably selling more direct off his own website.

It's past the time of moderation in a genaerl way, more a case of getting Barry to honour his contracts and only those who have poaid up front can do that. Unfortunately he's ruined what ever goodwill came with the Brand name.

Ian

[Jac@stafford.net]

Eric, another side is to look at Barry's parts sales on Ebay, he gets a faster turn around with less outlay, and he'sprobably selling more direct off his own website.

We do not know if he is running his 'bay site. A high school drop-out could do it.

[Jonathan Barlow]

We do not know if he is running his 'bay site. A high school drop-out could do it.


Oh, he's most definitely in charge of the listings on eBay. (A business school dropout is more like it.)

[goamules]

I just looked to see how many Deardorff parts are being sold on Ebay, and by who. It's http://myworld.ebay.com/attrevida with a picture of someone and link to the main company. I am surprised at how many parts are being sold, hundreds of sales over the past couple years that I looked at. Anyone with the time and organization to sell that much, ship on time, and get 100 percent positive feedback is dedicating a lot into this effort. Answering questions from bidders, following up, and again, shipping on time.

So that looks like the primary role right now of the company; selling off all their spare NOS and new parts. I would ask, are these the parts that are supposed to be going into my camera? Are you selling off everything so that you can then close? How many cameras have you actually built and delivered? How many are on order? These are questions for an arbitrator or class action lawyer to ask. If it's just 2-3 cameras pending that's one thing, if it's 100, there are probably some laws being broken.

The "venture capitalists" that paid up front for cameras, and are getting ignored, and have no cameras months after they were promised are getting screwed, in favor of some anonymous ebay bidder that buys a $20 leather strap, or $30 rear frame braces.

[Daniel Stone]

what about just buying all the necessary "parts", and having a cabinet maker make the frames :)?

might be faster that way :D

-Dan

[Jody_S]

I just looked to see how many Deardorff parts are being sold on Ebay, and by who. It's http://myworld.ebay.com/attrevida with a picture of someone and link to the main company. I am surprised at how many parts are being sold, hundreds of sales over the past couple years that I looked at. Anyone with the time and organization to sell that much, ship on time, and get 100 percent positive feedback is dedicating a lot into this effort. Answering questions from bidders, following up, and again, shipping on time.



I bought several parts myself, to complete my project cam. I had no complaints except for the high cost of shipping, but things were very professionally boxed and arrived in perfect condition. I expect he's using a shipping service, or has contracted out this part of the business.

[DennisD]

Note that mr. Cochran is selling plenty of parts, but certainly not soliciting camera orders on eBay.
That would work wonders on his feedback !

[Dustyman]

Hello. Long time reader, new member.
Just thought I would share my experience with Barry Cochran. I had an 11x14 V11 recently restored. It was, as you will see, in pretty awful shape. I am completely sympathetic for those of you still waiting for your cameras, but I do not feel, in any way, that Barry is interested in ripping anyone off. Further, I found him to be knowledgeable and, in some ways, very generous. Not that I didn't experience some of the same communication issues as some of you, ...I did. There was also a bit of delay in completion, but not horrible by any stretch. As I mention in my blog piece I do think he is kind of quirky, but he did ultimately come through for me.
Of course, my writing expresses solely my experience. I understand that in no way does it lesson any difficulties anyone else might be experiencing. Nonetheless, I was sort of hoping that my experience might offer some insight, and might be helpful to some.

Best to all LF readers and practitioners.

http://dustyman.com/post/47999051601/deardorff-v11-11x14-restoration-before-after-pictures

Follow the above link to read the piece and see the images. There are a *lot* : )

[Harold_4074]

I spoke with Barry Cochran this morning regarding various ways of getting my restored SC11 from Tennessee to California. The work took about as long as he said it would, and he has been gracious enough to store it for me while I pondered the transportation options. Based on the pictures that he sent me and the conclusion of the restoration, the camera is now every bit as nice as Dustyman's V11.

For what it is worth, I endorse Dustyman's well-stated characterization of Barry.

(Barry is in Tennessee and I am from Georgia, in both cases by way of Texas, so perhaps he and I get along better than some others might :))