PDA

View Full Version : Search for a Tachihara 4x5



malindis
19-Jun-2012, 10:14
Hello all,
It's my first post on this forum. :o

As mentioned in the title i'm new to LF and after some research it appears that for what i want to do (landscapes), the best LF field camera would be a Tachihara regarding the weight and the cost.
But unfortunately, I can't find any used one to buy :-(
Except the one i just missed on ebay :-)
So if anyone has a tachihara to sell (with a lens or not) or know where i could find one for a reasonably price (about 400 to 500 USD) I would be grateful.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Regards.

drew.saunders
19-Jun-2012, 11:13
Where are you located? You should put this in the For Sale section, as it's a "Wanted" ad. You'll be able to see/post in that section 30 days after you join. I have a Tachihara that needs a wee bit of repair work (actually, works fine without it), if you're at all handy with tools and/or don't expect to use rear tilt at all.

malindis
19-Jun-2012, 11:36
Hi,
As i'm really new to this forum I can't post anything under the "for sale" section :-(

I'm from Lausanne, Switzerland...

Regarding your tachihara, it depends the price and the work to be done... Is it possible to have some more news and maybe some pictures ?
Thanks.

Alan Gales
19-Jun-2012, 11:51
If you can't find a Tachi you might also look at used Chamonix's and Shen Hao's. All three are similar. Each having slight advantages and disadvantages over the other two. I have not priced these cameras on the used market lately but I expect you may end up spending a little more than your limit for a nice example.

malindis
19-Jun-2012, 12:02
I would love a chamonix, i have seen one on ebay, but it's already at 600 € and the bidding hasn't ended.
For the shen hao's i have read on different forums that they are not very well made compared to Chamonix or even Tachihara.

I'm really a beginner on LF so any suggestion is appreciated.

My goal is to start with a used camera and lens (low budget) and to experiment with it on treck and when I have some more experience i'll go for a better camera...

Cheers.

Ken Lee
19-Jun-2012, 12:30
The 4x5 Tachihara was also sold under the name Osaka.

(I sold mine, and then bought one a few years later.)

Your approach is wise: just get started with something portable and affordable, and grow from there :cool:

Alan Gales
19-Jun-2012, 12:31
I own a Tachi and from what I heard the Shen is actually a little better built but also a little heavier than my Tachi. Maybe some Shen Hao owners will chime in.

You do have the right idea in buying an inexpensive camera first. Some people will go out and buy that beautiful new Ebony and after using it the find out that they really don't like messing with sheet film. They end up selling the Ebony at a big loss.

If you can't find a folder within your budget you can always pick up a Sinar F for $300.00 or Calumet/Cambo for $200.00 or less. I have seen old Cambos sell for less than $100.00. Monorails are great for learning camera movements because they are more straight forward to use. Of course they are a lot bulkier in the field. I started out with a Cambo SC. The Tachihara was my second 4x5.

Just beware, I also own a Sinar P 4x5 and a Wehman 8x10. Large format can be quite addicting!

emh
19-Jun-2012, 12:33
You can also search for a Calumet Wood Field. They were re-badged Tachiharas, I believe. You may also want to look into a wooden Wista.

gliderbee
19-Jun-2012, 13:07
I would love a chamonix, i have seen one on ebay, but it's already at 600 € and the bidding hasn't ended.
For the shen hao's i have read on different forums that they are not very well made compared to Chamonix or even Tachihara.

I'm really a beginner on LF so any suggestion is appreciated.

My goal is to start with a used camera and lens (low budget) and to experiment with it on treck and when I have some more experience i'll go for a better camera...

Cheers.

I owned a shen hao 4x5 (now same but 5x7) and could compare it with the tachi from a friend: the shen hao is better build; the tachi is fine but the shen hao is a bit sturdier and hence a bit heavier.

Stefan

Kuzano
19-Jun-2012, 18:06
Have a friend who has used a Tachihara for over twenty years for landscape photography. Very particular fellow. I've been allowed to touch and hold his Tachi on occasion.

So, I bought a Shen Hao.... Twice as heavy as the Tachi... sold it.

As mentioned Tachihara was also sold as
1)Osaka
2)Calumet Wood Field

No changes except the badge.

Have you looked at?

1) Nagaoka
2) Ikeda Anba

Similar operation and movements and 3.4 to 4 pounds.

I finally settled on the Toyo 45CF to match the weight, but they are bringing high prices.
I have also used the Toyo 45A, which is a metal body w/similar movements, but tips the scale at close to 6 pounds. Can be had at $500 occasionally in very good condition.

My current project is that I am closing in on a goal weight of 4 pounds on a stripped down Graflex Super Graphic. I expect to hold the weight at 4 pounds and improve the movements. Very rigid lockdowns.

I did use a Tachihara for a time, but the sacrifice for low weight is the camera was a bit too flexy for me.

However, if you want to see results from a professional in landscape with a Tachihara, here is a link to my friends site:

http://www.brucejackson.com/

I'm reasonably certain all the images on the site were take with his Tachihara and the three lenses that have been his "kit" for years.

SPECIAL NOTE:

By the way, I had a nice grin when you mentioned the auction Tachi you missed on eBay. I once told an associate that I lost a much desired camera on eBay. He looked me in the eye and responded.... "You didn't lose the auction. You didn't pay enough!!!" My new tactic for any item I want strongly. Figure out my highest price I am willing to pay. Add 20%. Place the bid and don't look at the auction again until it's closed. Assuming I've done my research on closed auctions for the prices items bring, strike an average, and Proxy Bid, it's amazing how many times "I pay enough".

malindis
20-Jun-2012, 00:02
By the way, I had a nice grin when you mentioned the auction Tachi you missed on eBay. I once told an associate that I lost a much desired camera on eBay. He looked me in the eye and responded.... "You didn't lose the auction. You didn't pay enough!!!" My new tactic for any item I want strongly. Figure out my highest price I am willing to pay. Add 20%. Place the bid and don't look at the auction again until it's closed. Assuming I've done my research on closed auctions for the prices items bring, strike an average, and Proxy Bid, it's amazing how many times "I pay enough".

In fact, I haven't paid at all... It was a direct buy and by the time i decided to take the step it was sold :-(

Thanks all for your advices. I will have a look at osaka or calumet camera, and also the ikeda anba.

Now if you see or have something interesting in my budget range don't hesitate to contact me.

Cheers.

Stefan

malindis
20-Jun-2012, 02:03
It's the first time a hear about the toyo 45cf, I only knew the toyo 45a who was too heavy for me...

Is the lack of rear movement compared to the tachi, shen hao, etc.. a limitation for landscape and portrait photography ???

Cheers

stefan

Doremus Scudder
20-Jun-2012, 03:00
Stefan,

I would advise not to get "stuck" on one particular brand when looking for a lightweight field camera. Sure, Tachis are good and light and will do the job, but don't rule out other viable alternatives; cameras that will suit your needs are many.

You might keep an eye out for the following in addition to those mentioned above: Woodman (very light), Wista DX (3.4 lbs and can fold up with a lens mounted).

I own both of these and find them fine for long hiking and backpacking. There are many others as well. Look at the specifications.

Best,

Doremus

malindis
20-Jun-2012, 03:10
Stefan,

I would advise not to get "stuck" on one particular brand when looking for a lightweight field camera. Sure, Tachis are good and light and will do the job, but don't rule out other viable alternatives; cameras that will suit your needs are many.

You might keep an eye out for the following in addition to those mentioned above: Woodman (very light), Wista DX (3.4 lbs and can fold up with a lens mounted).

I own both of these and find them fine for long hiking and backpacking. There are many others as well. Look at the specifications.

Best,

Doremus

Yes i know...
I'm just talking about the one i see most to sell used. I haven't seen any woodman or Wista DX for sell.

Thanks all for your advices.

Cheers.
Stefan

gliderbee
20-Jun-2012, 04:14
Figure out my highest price I am willing to pay. Add 20%. Place the bid and don't look at the auction again until it's closed. Assuming I've done my research on closed auctions for the prices items bring, strike an average, and Proxy Bid, it's amazing how many times "I pay enough".

Nice strategy, if not for one thing: DO NOT EVER BID EARLY ! Wait until the last 5 seconds and place your best bid. By bidding early, the only thing you do is attract counter-offers from other early bidders, thus upping the price for everyone. By bidding in the last 5 seconds, nobody (including you) can have second thoughts and up the "best offer" again. OF COURSE, all this is not applicable when I am selling something :cool: !

Stefan.

Brian Ellis
20-Jun-2012, 05:17
I've owned two Tachiharas, a Chamonix, and a Shen Hao. If cost wasn't a consideration for you I'd recommend the Chamonix. But the other two are perfectly fine cameras as well so you wouldn't be losing much with either one IMHO.

The advantages of the Tachihara vs the Shen that I owned (which I believe was the original model, I'm not familiar with the latest models) are lighter weight by about 2 pounds (4 lbs vs 6 lbs), simpler to set up and take down (because it has fewer movements to deal with and to zero out), and an extra inch of bellows extension (13" vs 12" for the Shen in normal configuration). An inch doesn't sound like much but for me it was the difference between being able to use a 300mm lens with the Tachihara and not being able to use it with the Shen in normal configuration except when focused at infinity (see discussion below).

The main potential advantages of the Shen are more movements (an advantage if you need them, a disadvantage if you don't since they add weight and complexity) and the possibility of extending the bellows another couple inches (from 12 inches to about 14 inches) by fiddling around with base tilt and axis tilt (which I found to be a pain and also somewhat unstable since it extends the bellows out in front of the camera bed). There are of course other differences but these were the important differences for me. I thought both cameras were equally well-built and adequately sturdy.

There's been a lot of information written about both cameras and you should be able to find their specs and many comments about them here and in other places on the web. My comments are from memory, if I've given you any incorrect information I'm sure someone will correct me.

Kuzano
20-Jun-2012, 10:15
Nice strategy, if not for one thing: DO NOT EVER BID EARLY ! Wait until the last 5 seconds and place your best bid. By bidding early, the only thing you do is attract counter-offers from other early bidders, thus upping the price for everyone. By bidding in the last 5 seconds, nobody (including you) can have second thoughts and up the "best offer" again. OF COURSE, all this is not applicable when I am selling something :cool: !

Stefan.

I should have been a bit more clear on my post about bids on eBay. I do agree that you shoot yourself in the foot on eBay auctions by bidding early. All that can be accomplished by early bids is to run the auction up unnecessarily.

"Snipe" bidding OTOH (bidding at the last instant, as in 5 seconds before) has some limitations. Many "Snipe" bidders are using automated systems. There are a lot of them that you can configure to throw in a bid as short as 2-3 seconds before the end of the auction. When I do last second bidding, I use an automated service.

I still do advocate, however, that if I see something that I simply cannot seem to find elsewhere, and it rarely shows up on eBay, I am more than realistic about paying a bit more to get it. If you do put in a higher proxy bid, even a few minutes before the end of the auction, the system calculates the winning bid in bid increments. If my proxy is $100 higher than the last bid, and the bid increment is $2.50, then only $2.50 of my proxy amount is used to win the auction. The extra $97.50 is simply not used and certainly not debited from my account. In other words, there has to be other bid activity, and either a large amount, or a larger proxy or Snipe than yours, to use up your Proxy.

I never understand why people sit for hours and watch the end of the auctions, instead of using the tools available like Proxy bids and Sniping tools.

I rarely ever watch auction endings, other than my own. I usually don't know if I won something until I get the e-mail advice, or Paypal advice.

BTW.... I looked yesterday and there was both a Nagaoka and an Ikeda Anba on eBay (US).

Also to the original poster. Be wary on the Toyo 45CF. A lot of people don't like them, saying the fittings on the lockdowns strip out. I have had 3 CF models and never a problem. But then, I don't do an "incredible hulk" cinch down on the movements. I can't really understand what people must be doing to these to strip those lockdown bosses out of the body.

They are about half the weight of a Toyo 45A and still selling new for $800 plus. They've been around a long time and people are still paying for new ones. I see them selling for $500 to $700 on eBay quite regularly. Easy setup and takedown, with good movements and a drop bed.

Alan Gales
20-Jun-2012, 10:32
A good friend of mine has a Toyo 45A. It's twice as heavy as my Tachi but a whole lot sturdier being made of metal instead of wood. It's a fine camera.

I know you wish to go lightweight but by the time you fill your backpack with camera, 2 or 3 lenses, film holders, dark cloth, loupe, etc., etc., etc, plus carrying your tripod will you even notice an extra 3 pounds?

malindis
20-Jun-2012, 10:44
BTW.... I looked yesterday and there was both a Nagaoka and an Ikeda Anba on eBay (US).


Yes. i have seen them... I don't know which on is best ??? The Nagaoka has a big hole in the bellow and I don't know anything about ILEX lenses. On the other hand, the Anba has no lens !!!
Hard to make a decision

Alan Gales
22-Jun-2012, 14:20
Rich Long has a nice looking Shen Hao in the for sale section. He's asking $650.00. I know it's a bit over your limit but it won't hurt anything to shoot him an offer if you are interested.

I don't personally know Rich or his camera. I just wanted to make you aware of his sale.

malindis
26-Jun-2012, 10:16
Hi all,
Thanks a lot for your help and advice.
I'll have a look at all that.
Cheers.

Tony Evans
26-Jun-2012, 10:55
+1 for Alan`s reference to the Shen for sale. I have one for field work + anything else and it performs. Make an offer, this appears to be a good deal.