Keep the Fuji 4x5 back?

[kevs-2323668]

I just bought the brand new Fuji PA-45 for $195. then right away, they stop making the color film for it . Any reason to keep this or should I just sell it right away? Lost cause? They still do make 3200 BW, but one would have to stop down 5 stops too see how an exposure might turn out.

[vinny]

Either stockpile what's left or unload the holder asap.

[kevs-2323668]

They have a 3200 still BW, prices color on ebay are bit overpriced and then those will run out. Do you own one?

[Frank Petronio]

I'd sell it for whatever, the film was expensive, use the digital for proofing and maybe the smaller ISO100 for camera testing and goofing around. It's a real shame to loose these materials.

[kevs-2323668]

thanks Frank, what is this referring to:
"the smaller ISO100 for camera testing a"

[Frank Petronio]

Typo opps, I just mean use a DSLR for testing instead of Polaroid, at least for composition and lighting. It doesn't hurt to do a Polaroid with the 405 back of your set-up to make sure the camera is set up properly as it will show whether you have any light leaks, malfunctioning shutter, plus the depth of field, etc. but it's a lot less hassle, time, and expense to do 20 digitals than 20 Polaroids for the roughing in.

Since the good Polaroid (sorry Fuji Instant) is ISO 100, do the math if you are using ISO 400 film.

A good loupe with a clear lower portion (to let light in, not your camera loupe) is useful for checking details. The negative side will have more detail but it is gunky.

[cabbiinc]

You'll likely see them discontinue the 3200 as well. Mines a doorstop too. Color films are getting scarce, C-41 is all but gone, E-6 not looking much better. I tried selling all of my LF gear a while ago and the highest offer was $50 for camera, 3 lenses, holders, film, instant films and holders. I'm about to just donate it to a school or something, maybe they can put it in a museum setting for their "digital media" class.

/discouraged/

[kevs-2323668]

Did not understand this Frank,
"A good loupe with a clear lower portion (to let light in, not your camera loupe) is useful for checking details. The negative side will have more detail but it is gunky. "

I already check with Canon 5D2. I want to know get the other back for smaller type instant film. Wish I had chosen that at the time! But those are not scarce and overpriced.

Cab, well, no problem right now with 4x5 chrome or neg color.

[Frank Petronio]

You want a loupe like this to look at reflective prints, like Polaroid prints: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/229416-REG/Gepe_8x_Pro_Loupe.html it has a clear base to let light in from the outside.

You want a loupe like this to look at your ground glass: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/63453-REG/Wista_211046_5x_Standard_Focusing_Loupe.html because the black base will not let outside light in.

If you look at film on a light table, be consistent with the loupe since the black based loupes will make them appear to have more contrast than a clear base. In the day when chromes mattered to anyone, it was usually recommended to use a clear base to get the most accurate information, but let the clients use the black base so the chromes looked better, haha.

On the throw-away part of the Fuji Instant, you can loupe the negative if you want to see if some particular area is in focus. It will be sharper than the positive print. But you'll get gunk on your loupe.

[Brian C. Miller]

Right, Frank means a loupe for looking at the "print" side of the instant print. The base of the loupe needs to be clear to let the light in. Yes, there's more detail on the "negative" side, and on Fuji the black backside of that can be removed using household bleach and then you'll have a scannable negative. The gunk can be washed of in a sink, but it takes a while for that.

When I can't get the 4x5 material, then I'll get the smaller Fuji back and use that until there's no more instant material. There's no sense in dropping money on an adapter for, at best, a 36mm sensor back for proofing a 4x5 image. It would be better to rig something up for holding a P&S at the back of the camera, and photographing the GG.

[kevs-2323668]

BTW, I think they are still making the FP 100c45 in Japan. Do you think they will continue that for the Japanese photographers for a while? I meet a lot of Japanese, and could ask them occasionally to get 1/2 packets when they visit. I could do that for a long time. Thoughts?

[Brian C. Miller]

Fujifilm has disassembled and scrapped out the production equipment for the 4x5 material. No more except what's in the warehouse. Could be quite a bit, but there's no way to tell. If there is material in Japan, go ahead and ask your friends to get it for you. I don't see any more on B&H's site, and I intend to get what I can locally and then switch.

[Bob Salomon]

I just bought the brand new Fuji PA-45 for $195. then right away, they stop making the color film for it . Any reason to keep this or should I just sell it right away? Lost cause? They still do make 3200 BW, but one would have to stop down 5 stops too see how an exposure might turn out.

That is why they make ND filters. The Heliopan Vario ND would let you shoot 3200 speed film anywhere from ISO 1600 to ISO 50 with a simple twist of the ring.

[kevs-2323668]

Brian, how do you know they are not producing? Anyway then barbecue of chemical expiration, then the whole kaput will be over, so why don't you just sell your unit sooner instead of buying more film?

Good point Bob, but that filter is silly expensive $389? But someone here just said even that film will be scrapped soon.

[Frank Petronio]

Just buy an inexpensive 5-stop ND if you want to save money, it is only an instant print. But those variable ND filters are pretty sweet, might have other uses even on the digital.

Haven't we had the end of film conversation already? No mo chromes, shoot color neg, then shoot B&W.

[kevs-2323668]

Frank, thanks, wow, well I'm going chrome for this first project to avoid doing proofs, and it's so beautiful seeing chromes on the light table. Will go neg soon. I have 150 and 90 lens, do you have a link to the 5 stop ND? if it's very little I may do it. But would you bother? Do you think they will stop making the 3200 soon?

[Brian C. Miller]

Kevs, Fujifilm announced the discontinuation a while back, and I even posted a translation on the forum. There's probably a stock pile in Japan, and that's why you still see it there. But yeah, it's gone, a victim of lack of radical uptake by LF photographers.

[kevs-2323668]

Brian, so you say sell, that 3200 will be gone. no point in keeping the back?

[kevs-2323668]

Wish I had known when I was on the fence between this back and the other one. Know I can't get other one!

[Frank Petronio]

What you want is the smaller back called Fuji Instant Holder PA-145, which is functionally the same as the old Polaroid 405, and it takes the smaller and less expensive Fuji Instant 3.25x4.25 inch films. It uses the currently available Fujifilm FP-100C Professional Instant Color Film ISO 100 and Fujifilm FP-3000B Professional Instant Black & White Film.

Fuji fu#$ed up the naming of these films and backs so it is easy to confuse them with the larger 4x5 films and backs. You want to double check before buying. As far as I know they will make the smaller 3.25x4.25 films indefinitely as there is a huge user base for these still, not only for photography but for legacy instruments and such.

But nothing is certain. But the film is only $10 a pack - $1 per shot - and you can find a used Polaroid 405 for under $100 on eBay.

The smaller film is a compromise since it crops the image. And the back does not always fit well with every camera. But it works in most cases and is better than nothing.

[Brian C. Miller]

Kevs, it's up to you how much value your back and Fuji Instax give you. The 3200 isn't as popular as the color 100, and B&H has it in stock. If you have the money, buy it up and enjoy it while it lasts. You'll have to buy up a little stock pile for yourself, that's all. The "negative" is recoverable, but it's more like a C41 negative instead of a real Type 55 negative.

If you don't derive that much value from it, then of course sell it now, ASAP.

But it's your choice, your determination of what the equipment is worth to you, how it fits in with your photography.

[kevs-2323668]

Frank, already know that. Few months ago, I was debating which holder to get and I almost got the PA-145, but did not. Now I have to sell my brand new holder. The PA-145s are not available anywhere and the used beat up 405s which were about $40 on ebay at that time, are now going for $200.

I agree with you about the naming. In fact, I was so excited to see Samys had the 4x5 color film still in stock, and at 1/2 price at $13. I bought 25 packs, but later had to return it. I read it wrong!

[kevs-2323668]

PS Frank, your verdict on keeping the 4x5 holder using ND filters? If you have links to cheap ones let me know. seems like a longshot....

[Frank Petronio]

Just look on eBay for some cheap plastic NDs since the image quality for a small instant print won't matter much. Personally I would do the math in my head, it really isn't that hard and even my feeble 52-year old brain can manage. But I use the color ISO 100.

The secret to eBay and such is patience, I know some sucker paid $200 for an old 405 but I bought another one on here for $80 last month.

[Frank Petronio]

Just look on eBay for some cheap plastic NDs since the image quality for a small instant print won't matter much. Personally I would do the math in my head, it really isn't that hard and even my feeble 52-year old brain can manage. But I use the color ISO 100.

The secret to eBay and such is patience, I know some sucker paid $200 for an old 405 but I bought another one on here for $80 last month.

I gotta log off now, good luck!

[Roger Cole]

What you want is the smaller back called Fuji Instant Holder PA-145, which is functionally the same as the old Polaroid 405, and it takes the smaller and less expensive Fuji Instant 3.25x4.25 inch films. It uses the currently available Fujifilm FP-100C Professional Instant Color Film ISO 100 and Fujifilm FP-3000B Professional Instant Black & White Film.

Fuji fu#$ed up the naming of these films and backs so it is easy to confuse them with the larger 4x5 films and backs. You want to double check before buying. As far as I know they will make the smaller 3.25x4.25 films indefinitely as there is a huge user base for these still, not only for photography but for legacy instruments and such.

But nothing is certain. But the film is only $10 a pack - $1 per shot - and you can find a used Polaroid 405 for under $100 on eBay.

The smaller film is a compromise since it crops the image. And the back does not always fit well with every camera. But it works in most cases and is better than nothing.

Well I HOPE the 3.25x4.25 continues to be available. I just bought a 405 back on eBay, have enjoyed it (and also have a back for proofing on my M645 Pro) but now B&H shows the film as temporarily out of stock, but they have short dated 9/12 film for the same price, and Freestyle has it only as short dated special for the 9/12 film, discounted to just about match B&H's price. B&H has the 3000 B&W but Freestyle lists it as low stock, call for status. This has me worried. It's going to be really nice for proofing and has an aesthetic of it's own. In a word, it's just kind of fun.


Kevs, it's up to you how much value your back and Fuji Instax give you. The 3200 isn't as popular as the color 100, and B&H has it in stock. If you have the money, buy it up and enjoy it while it lasts. You'll have to buy up a little stock pile for yourself, that's all. The "negative" is recoverable, but it's more like a C41 negative instead of a real Type 55 negative.

If you don't derive that much value from it, then of course sell it now, ASAP.

But it's your choice, your determination of what the equipment is worth to you, how it fits in with your photography.

Is there a post or article with more detail on recovering the negative? If it's "more like a C41 negative" it would scan better than conventional black and white. Was there an Omega D2 negative carrier for 3.25x4.25? I suppose I could get a glass carrier but I'm allergic to the dust issues.


Frank, already know that. Few months ago, I was debating which holder to get and I almost got the PA-145, but did not. Now I have to sell my brand new holder. The PA-145s are not available anywhere and the used beat up 405s which were about $40 on ebay at that time, are now going for $200.

I agree with you about the naming. In fact, I was so excited to see Samys had the 4x5 color film still in stock, and at 1/2 price at $13. I bought 25 packs, but later had to return it. I read it wrong!


Just look on eBay for some cheap plastic NDs since the image quality for a small instant print won't matter much. Personally I would do the math in my head, it really isn't that hard and even my feeble 52-year old brain can manage. But I use the color ISO 100.

The secret to eBay and such is patience, I know some sucker paid $200 for an old 405 but I bought another one on here for $80 last month.

Yeah, be patient. I got a very nice, perfectly working 405 on the 'bay for $71 and $9 shipping, a pretty neat $80 and change.

[Helen Bach]

I think the FP-3000B is still widely used for technical applications - much more than it is used pictorially - so it stands a reasonably good chance of staying in production. B&H had it on sale for $6.99 recently. I've been using it in my Mamiya Press Universal recently - the whole frame is covered by the 75 mm and 127 mm lenses (the ones with a red P for Polaroid).

Best,
Helen

[Brian C. Miller]

Is there a post or article with more detail on recovering the negative? If it's "more like a C41 negative" it would scan better than conventional black and white. Was there an Omega D2 negative carrier for 3.25x4.25? I suppose I could get a glass carrier but I'm allergic to the dust issues.

I learned about it from New 55 project (http://new55project.blogspot.com/). It's pretty simple. Shoot your image at proper exposure. Peel the print away and enjoy it. Wash the "negative" portion to remove the gunk. Let dry. Tape the negative to a clean sheet of glass, emulsion side on the glass. Now, using household bleach, gently brush or rub the black back coating away. Don't let the bleach touch the emulsion. Wash the bleach off, remove the negative from the glass, and give it a final wash. Let dry and then scan.

[Helen Bach]

Or you can simply let the neg dry, then scan it.

[cabbiinc]

Or you can simply let the neg dry, then scan it.

With the Fuji materials there's a fully opaque black backing that must be bleached off and also the left over stuff on the other side from when you peel it.
With the New55Project stuff, from what I've read, you still need to use fixer to use the negative. But that's not out yet.

[Frank Petronio]

I wouldn't bank on anything from the Impossible Project, New 55, etc... I wish them well but the track record has been expensive, poor quality material meant for the Lomography hipster crowd that will pay extra for "random defects".

Even if they bring it to market, will it be affordable? $10-plus a pop makes it an art medium, not a proofing device.

[Helen Bach]

With the Fuji materials there's a fully opaque black backing that must be bleached off and also the left over stuff on the other side from when you peel it.
With the New55Project stuff, from what I've read, you still need to use fixer to use the negative. But that's not out yet.

Sorry, I was writing in haste and still had the FP-3000B in mind (I think that is the material that was being discussed, but I should have been specific) - you don't need to remove the opaque backing from that negative, because the backing behind the neg is white, not black. You can simply dry it, then scan it.

[Marc B.]

kevs,
There are people wanting your PA-45 back, should you want to sell. See bottom of this thread page.

Example:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?39177-WTB-polaroid-550-or-fuji-pa-45-back