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Drew Bedo
22-May-2012, 08:54
I just found out that the Pelican camera bag that I have was made in China and they don't honor the usual warranty!

I have a soft sided roll around/backpack that works fine as a camera bag. But now0 the pull-out handle won't deploy fully and one of the "feet" has broken off the bottom. I can't pull it and it won't stand up. When I called Pelican customer service, they told me it was a Pelican licensed product made in China and the warranty didn't apply. The importer, Omega-somethuing, doesnt seem to have any intention of making this right.

I am very disappointed in Pelican. I always thought they were a really good company. Now I find they are like everyone else out there.

Old-N-Feeble
22-May-2012, 08:56
Why is it that folks are so surprised when they find that China is now making EVERYTHING? No offense intended... but that is the hard fact of economics today.

Frank Petronio
22-May-2012, 08:58
Funny that none of our national politicians ever speak to the fact that Chinese trade has had a net negative effect upon the USA.

Or that they accept contributions indirectly from the Chinese.

Old-N-Feeble
22-May-2012, 09:04
Got that right, frank!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Drew Bedo
22-May-2012, 09:07
"Made-In-China" is one issue. Low quality is another issue. What bothers me the most is that Pelican found a way to dodge their long-time excellent warrenty.

darr
22-May-2012, 09:11
"Made-In-China" is one issue. Low quality is another issue. What bothers me the most is that Pelican found a way to dodge their long-time excellent warrenty.

And you dodged paying your shipping fee for a print exchange in the past. Get over it!!

Old-N-Feeble
22-May-2012, 09:14
"Made-In-China" is one issue. Low quality is another issue. What bothers me the most is that Pelican found a way to dodge their long-time excellent warrenty.


And you dodged paying your shipping fee for a print exchange in the past. Get over it!!

Huh??

E. von Hoegh
22-May-2012, 09:21
It's gotten so the consumer really needs to do due diligence. Best place to start is food labels. Many would be shocked to learn how much comes from China - where not even the natives trust the food.

Drew Bedo
22-May-2012, 09:30
SDarr: You are right. I am sorry about it. How may I make this right? PM me.

Drew

Renato Tonelli
22-May-2012, 09:43
I am a little confused. Are all Pelican products licensed or just some (like the one you purchase). Are their hard cases 'licensed'?

...and don't get me started on the other issues...

John Jarosz
22-May-2012, 10:21
I don't see any 'bags' on their website. Which product are you talking about?

John

Alan Gales
22-May-2012, 11:10
Funny that none of our national politicians ever speak to the fact that Chinese trade has had a net negative effect upon the USA.

Or that they accept contributions indirectly from the Chinese.

Amen.

Drew Bedo
22-May-2012, 11:11
John:

This is a bag I got last year at a camera show from a vender who was selling Pelican cases and bags.

I have now called Pelican to get something fixed and they identify this soft sided bag as their PCS line. They say it is a legitimate Pelican product—not an unauthorized knock-off. Pelican customer service (nice folks) told me that the PCS bags are made in China by a company that licensed the Pelican name. logo and brand. The importer is Omega and they do not honor the traditional excellent Pelican warentee. Their warentee is verry limited and, in my opinion, dodgy.

I am so disapointyed thjat Pelican has sold out like so many other US companies.

BrianShaw
22-May-2012, 12:48
A few years ago I was talking to Tamrac about their bags and they told me that half of them (maybe more??) are made off-shore. Anything in their line with a 4-digit part number is off-shore, and the 3-digit part numbers are still US-made. I haven't really looked to see if there are quality differences and I believe they honor the same warantee eon all of their products, regardless of place of manufacture.

It seems odd to me that Pelican, a company that I thought had a reputable name, would have a product line that they acknowledge as lower quality and not worthy of their full warantee... despite carrying their brand name on it.

Vaughn
22-May-2012, 13:56
When you get right down to it, American (big) business (and thus our elected officials) want to access the huge Chinese market. And that will not happen if we do not let the Chinese into ours. I am not saying that the Chinese are good at allowing us equal access in return (yet), but that's the facts, madam...

Frank Petronio
22-May-2012, 14:39
The Pelican warranty policy is pretty bizarre, I've never heard of a company changing terms on certain products like that, at least for reasonable consumer items.

E. von Hoegh
22-May-2012, 14:44
The Pelican warranty policy is pretty bizarre, I've never heard of a company changing terms on certain products like that, at least for reasonable consumer items.

The fact that they will not warranty the Chinese made stuff tells me that they know it's shit.

Sevo
22-May-2012, 14:49
I just found out that the Pelican camera bag that I have was made in China and they don't honor the usual warranty!

I have a soft sided roll around/backpack that works fine as a camera bag. But now0 the pull-out handle won't deploy fully and one of the "feet" has broken off the bottom. I can't pull it and it won't stand up. When I called Pelican customer service, they told me it was a Pelican licensed product made in China and the warranty didn't apply. The importer, Omega-somethuing, doesnt seem to have any intention of making this right.


Assuming you speak of Pelican, the company that makes the cases, they don't seem to make bags or to have ever made any. A quick Google shows up two wholly independent Pelican Bags companies, one US (apparently a two-man outfit making hand-stitched leather purses), one British (essentially a print service for advertising materials like canvas shopping bags). Neither seem to be producing anything particularly useful as a camera bag. So what are you talking about?

Drew Bedo
22-May-2012, 14:59
International trade relations are not the main issue for me.


If Pelican had moved production to China— as Apple has, and manufactured products to their high specification—as Apple does, there would be no issue for me.

What they actually have done is to trade on their well earned reputation as a manufacturer of high quality items by licensing their name, logo and brand to someone not under their control. They acknowledge that the gear is shoddy by not honoring the product their made-in-USA warranty. And yet, the customer support people assured me that my bag was a genuine Pelican product not some illicit boot-leg copy.

E. von Hoegh
22-May-2012, 15:00
If Pelican had moved production to China— as Apple has, and manufactured products to their high specification—as Apple does, there would be no issue for me.

What they actually have done is to trade on their well earned reputation as a manufacturer of high quality items by licensing their name, logo and brand to someone not under their control. They acknowledge that the gear is shoddy by not honoring the product their made-in-USA warranty. And yet, the customer support people assured me that my bag was a genuine Pelican product not some illicit boot-leg copy.

Welcome to Globalism.
I won't buy anything made in China. I'll buy a second hand item if I have to, and for more reasons than just quality. The Chinese can make world-class stuff, when they want to.

Drew Bedo
22-May-2012, 15:03
Well . . . Thats what I thought I was doing! I thought I had a made-in-America product from a top-end company of integrity.

Noah A
22-May-2012, 15:06
I've had nothing but good experiences with Pelican cases over the years. I'll have to check where my more recent ones were made, but they've held up fine. I don't see any soft cases on their website. That would be my first indication that, though it may be licensed, it's not really a Pelican case. I do agree that licensing your name to crappy products, regardless of where they are made, is a bad practice.

I now use a Zero Halliburton case for travel--it holds my tripod and my clothes and is checked through as baggage. I used to use a Pelican 1700 which was perfect but it looked too much like a gun case and attracted too much attention.

Zero Halliburton cases are still made in the USA, but they're not cheap.

E. von Hoegh
22-May-2012, 15:09
Well . . . Thats what I thought I was doing! I thought I had a made-in-America product from a top-end company of integrity.

I've found that I have to look and verify by the marking on the item itself. Most clerks are honest, but some will say anything.

John Jarosz
22-May-2012, 16:04
And yet, the customer support people assured me that my bag was a genuine Pelican product not some illicit boot-leg copy.

Well, then I would ask them why it's not on their website.
There is zero mention of the PCS line anywhere on their site:
Pelican site map (http://pelican.com/site_map.php)

Something is not right, unless as you say, they are scamming on their name.

John

Bob Salomon
22-May-2012, 16:11
"Zero Halliburton cases are still made in the USA, but they're not cheap."

Some may be but Zero is owned by a Japanese company who uses the name Ace. Zero was sold to them 6 or 7 years ago.

Are you talking about Zero luggage or Zero equipment cases?

Drew Bedo
22-May-2012, 16:41
The bag I have is much like this one, but twice the size.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pelican-Soft-Case-PCS172-Black-used-/300590204669?pt=US_Laptop_Cases_Bags&hash=item45fc9286fd
I did not buy it on e-bay.



Again: The Pelican customer service people at (800)967-6492,told me that the soft-case "PCS" line are genuine Pelican products manufactured under license in Chinaê . . .then referred me to the importer, Omega. Omega customer service (the receptionist!) can be reached at: (800)777-6634.

Noah A
22-May-2012, 17:56
"Zero Halliburton cases are still made in the USA, but they're not cheap."

Some may be but Zero is owned by a Japanese company who uses the name Ace. Zero was sold to them 6 or 7 years ago.

Are you talking about Zero luggage or Zero equipment cases?

I'm talking about luggage. I needed a case for a tripod and clothes, not super-fragile gear. I'm aware that Zero Halliburton is a subsidiary of a Japanese company. My case, which came with a lifetime warranty by the way, was made in the USA, although that has nothing to do with my decision to purchase it. It seems that at least all of their aluminum cases are made in the states.

I had considered a Rimowa case, I thought they were all made in Germany but the Topas luggage at my local shop was clearly marked that it was made in Canada. That's not why I didn't buy it though, I just found it interesting.

Sorry, I know this is off topic but bob asked...

I don't really care where my stuff is made as long as it is made well. It's a shame that Pelican let some other outfit use their name. But my advice would be to avoid products that look vastly different from everything else listed in that comany's website or catalog. I have five of the real pelican cases, some new and some over ten years old, and I've never had any issues with them.

falth j
22-May-2012, 18:08
There is a newly built electrical generating plant down the road.


I had the opportunity to talk with a member of the electrical distribution company administration, and asked if they had an financial interest in the company, since it produces power for distribution in the generating plant service area.


The person replied, that “yes they did have a financial stake in the power plant“, but have since sold their interest.


Guess, who bought the majority ownership of this power plant?


Not a U.S. investor.

Not a U.S. owner,

but rather foreign interests, now own that power generating facility.


Better check around your area, and see who owns our electrical generating plants around our country.


Pretty soon we’ll have to rely on foreign owned power companies for our electricity, how do you think that will work out for us?



Now we have foreign interests buying into charter school ownership.


These for profit corporations fire or will not hire American certified teachers, but import foreign teachers that have no U.S. teacher training or certification, and who barely speak English to teach our kids with our tax dollars.


Guess again.


Those foreign “teachers” must “kick-back” 40% of their salary to the foreign owned charter school company, and the money goes to promote religious endeavors and take-over attempts of a secular countries' government.


How do you think that will work out for us, our tax dollars indirectly financing a foreign government takeover?


And, our leadership feels this is quite alright.

JBAphoto
22-May-2012, 19:22
No warranty against bears and 3 year old children I could understand, but this stinks - Remember that part of every cent spent on Chinese stuff goes towards their government's arms buildup and their creeping territorial aggression, now directed at islands just west of the Philippines

In Australia this is exacerbated by our government's fawning agreement to sell the best farmland to Chinese mining interests at subsidised prices

OK, a digression, but . . .

Sevo
23-May-2012, 00:07
Again: The Pelican customer service people at (800)967-6492,told me that the soft-case "PCS" line are genuine Pelican products manufactured under license in Chinaê . . .then referred me to the importer, Omega.

Well, I dislike the Jingoism in this thread, and don't quite see any rational reason to buy a product for being US made - it certainly is not the country I'd go to for excellent product design and manufacturing. As far as I am concerned, let them switch production to China, we'd see less flawed pieces and get them at true € rates where we currently pay at a €=$ exchange rate or worse...

The real issue is the switch of warranty and seemingly illicit product side line. Dropping a brand-building warranty on a series of moonshine products they otherwise attempt to disown to the degree of not even mentioning their existence is very ugly. And the sites with "pelican" in them that claim to officially distribute these look even worse, like a parody or a sloppily designed web fraud from the mid nineties. Overall the whole thing looks scary, almost as if Pelican was on the rocks or had been ripped apart and sold in pieces by the investment sharks - but that wouldn't really be a matter of China or not, but rather our US/European banking system at play.

Daniel Stone
23-May-2012, 00:34
Welcome to Globalism.
I won't buy anything made in China. I'll buy a second hand item if I have to, and for more reasons than just quality. The Chinese can make world-class stuff, when they want to.

I used to feel that way, then I purchased a few of the film holders made by Chamonix in China. IMO, they're the BEST holders I've EVER held in my hand. Build quality was first-rate, the joints were all perfectly cut, and all in all, I'd buy them again, no question. However, I've had enough items in the past few years that were made in China, and they lived up to that "made in china" typical build quality stigma.

I find it interesting to see how many books(of any kind, not just photo-related) are being printed in China. The printing quality CAN be tremendous, but it seems that registration/alignment can be a problem from mill->mill.

-Dan

MDR
23-May-2012, 00:55
There is good an there is bad chinese product quality see Apple vs others. This doesn't seem to be a case of China beeing at fault, it seems to be a case of never trust an US company. :) The product might be produced in PRC but the company it seems is in the US the warranty restrictions come from the US company not the Chinese. And to those yammering about the chinese, even China is getting to expensive for western companies and they pull out of china to reduce the costs.
If you want to complain about something complain about western companies and there enormous greed. And for those complaining about the armement of China look at home because the US still has a military budget that is larger than Chinas and Russias together.


Dominik

Bob Salomon
23-May-2012, 04:57
Rimowa is a German company located in Cologne. At the factory in Cologne they make their aluminum luggage and design their polycarbonate luggage. They also have a factory outside Prague which was where all of their polycarbonate luggage was manufactured. When they opened that factory they marked their luggage "Made in the EU".

4 years ago Rimowa opened a new factory in Canada and began also manufacturing polycarbonate luggage in Canada. That is the luggage you saw, probably at Robinson's in Philly.

Pelican has different distribution channels in the USA. For most of their history Pelican camera cases were distributed by a company called Brandess outside Chicago. When Brandess decided to sell the business it was bought by Omega and is now called Omega-Brandess in Maryland. However Pelican does sell direct to other markets in the USA. Apparently in this case Omega has licensed the name. This is rather common. Just look to see who actually owns the Polaroid name and how many different companies actually sell Polaroid branded products under license. Same with Sharper Image.

Bob Salomon
23-May-2012, 05:02
No Gitzo did not stop honoring their warranty. In the USA Gitzo had no warranty. Their distributor, Karl Heitz, put a lifetime warranty on the Gitzo tripods that they imported and sold to camera stores in the USA. When Manfrotto purchased the Gitzo factory they also took over distribution and marketing responsibilities for Gitzo in the USA. They decided that they would not offer a lifetime warranty (whose lifetime? The owner, the company or the product's?) In this case the Karl Heitz lifetime warranty was for the lifetime of the Karl Heitz company (they were also the Alpa and Tessina distributor in the USA).

slackercruster
23-May-2012, 05:30
I saw a pack of frozen wild salmon at Walmart. When I looked to see the country of origin it said...caught in USA / processed in China. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. Can't we even scale, clean and freeze the fish we catch here??

Zewrak
23-May-2012, 05:47
Where is my tinfoil hat?

Old-N-Feeble
23-May-2012, 05:55
<snip>Better check around your area, and see who owns our electrical generating plants around our country.<snip>

City Public Service is owned by the city of San Antonio (us). A few years ago they had us vote whether or not to privatize the company... citing more money to make improvements, etc. WE VOTED IT DOWN. ;)

I don't even try to buy USA-made products anymore because there are so very few of them. We cannot stop the inevitable... it simply costs too much to manufacture here. Unless/until labor costs sharply rise in China, and other countries, nearly all manufacturing will be there. We will eventually reach an eqilibrium but the USA will never again be the "Industrial King of the World" and our economy will continue to shrink while other nations' wealth expands. It's just economics.

Steve Smith
23-May-2012, 06:16
the USA will never again be the "Industrial King of the World" and our economy will continue to shrink while other nations' wealth expands. It's just economics.

It might be one day, but not for a long time. One hundred years ago Great Britain was the world's manufacturing centre, then the US, then Japan. It's China's turn now.

All the talk of "everything made in China is junk" (which isn't true) is no different from the talk of "everything made in Japan is junk" from forty years ago.


Steve.

BrianShaw
23-May-2012, 06:21
The real issue is the switch of warranty and seemingly illicit product side line. Dropping a brand-building warranty on a series of moonshine products they otherwise attempt to disown to the degree of not even mentioning their existence is very ugly.

Yes, this is the heart of hte issue. The use of the countries "United States" and "China" seem mostly incidental to the example.

Like many, I've had good experiences with products made off-shore (for me, that would mean 'outside of the US') and the company has stood behind the product with their name on it. Likewise, I've had some poor quality products made within my own country. Sometimes the company stood behind it and sometimes they didn't.

What we are seeing here may be a bit of Jingoism (ha ha, I love that term... if only for the melodic sound it makes when spoken), but mostly it is a reaction to a company that has a good reputation but may be sacrificing their good name to turn a profit and turning away from product and customer support.

BrianShaw
23-May-2012, 06:27
Can't we even scale, clean and freeze the fish we catch here??

Yes, but with union pay scales for the fish scalers, gutter, and warehouse personnel you might have to pay 70% higher price.

Everyone wants/needs to get more for their money... and off-shore processing is one way to make that happen.

BrianShaw
23-May-2012, 06:29
Where is my tinfoil hat?

In the front hall coat closet... right next to your rain slicker.

goamules
23-May-2012, 07:51
Chinese manufacturing is replacing all western manufacturing not because of higher quality. As we know, it's happening in spite of lower quality. It's all about price. And you get cheap price with cheap labor rates and little regulation (environmental, safety, workers comp, social security, etc, etc. etc. that the west pays for). In China a company can agree to manufacture something, build a plant, and start production in a few months. Today, in America, it takes years for all the red tape and neighborhood complaint period, environmental studies, archaeological field surveys, noise pollution studies, etc.

Drew Bedo
23-May-2012, 07:55
Ok, forget China. Foreign-made is not the real problem here. What chaps my Gluts is the way Pelican has sold out their reputation for a great brand to a third party that doesn't care abput high quality and customer service.

It bothers me that they insist that these bags are genuine Pelican products but won't honor the product with the Pelican warenty—then direct you to some whole-saler or distributor whose customer service representative is the receptionist (actually a very nice person by the way).

My perception of Pelican will never be the same.

BrianShaw
23-May-2012, 07:55
Ya... but some of the Chinese-made products live up to the quality standards and reputation of their label. My HP keyboard was made in China nd it is a very good product. I hab nebber has uh problum wid id butt thad mite happening sum dae.

Drew Bedo
23-May-2012, 08:14
Again: Its not about China . . .its about PELICAN. putting their name on a shoddy product and not standing behind it.

falth j
23-May-2012, 08:37
"Again: Its not about China . . .


its about PELICAN. putting their name on a shoddy product and not standing behind it."


Wrong.


It is mostly about business, corporations, and their owners who have decided to take a "powder"

on hiring U.S. citizens, men and women,


and to hire the labor function from the cheapest supplier,


and if need be, divorce themselves from U.S. statutory rules and regulations,


thereby increasing their bottom line, and lining their bank accounts.


It is all about money,


and wherever business can cut corners,


and produce an item that looks similar,


regardless of quality,


they will do it,


it's called greed,


or "good business."

Sevo
23-May-2012, 08:43
It is mostly about business, corporations, and their owners who have decided to take a "powder"

on hiring U.S. citizens, men and women,


and to hire the labor function from the cheapest supplier,


Well, that is what capitalism is about. It might perhaps change once the US become socialist... ;-)

BrianShaw
23-May-2012, 08:47
Oh dear... we've taken a dangerous turn toward thread-closure. Oh my.

BrianShaw
23-May-2012, 08:48
Again: Its not about China . . .its about PELICAN. putting their name on a shoddy product and not standing behind it.

Yes, Drew. I was intending humor. But you are absolutely correct and I should have not used that country name in my attempt at humor. Sorry.

goamules
23-May-2012, 09:05
It's about Pelican and offshoring. Write Pelican, get it to both the customer care people AND the highest CEO. Tell them how you feel, and that you will not buy from them anymore. Tell them you are very involved with others that also are considering the reduction in quality and offshoring. If enough people vote with their feet, instead of their wallets, a few good companies will remain.

Old-N-Feeble
23-May-2012, 09:32
The only "talk" CEO's understand, or care about, is what we "say" with our wallets.

Drew Bedo
23-May-2012, 09:56
Brian: Thanks for that clarification. I've re-read it and, OK, now I get it. I was/am wrapped a little tight on this one.

Louis Pacilla
23-May-2012, 09:59
It is mostly about business, corporations, and their owners who have decided to take a "powder"

on hiring U.S. citizens, men and women,


and to hire the labor function from the cheapest supplier,


and if need be, divorce themselves from U.S. statutory rules and regulations,


thereby increasing their bottom line, and lining their bank accounts.


It is all about money,


and wherever business can cut corners,


and produce an item that looks similar,


regardless of quality,


they will do it,


it's called greed,


or "good business."


Here, here!

+1
But w/ a caveat ((("We" as the shrinking "middle - Upper lowwer class" have DEMANDED more stuff for LESS cash.
And the downward spiral continues.

E. von Hoegh
23-May-2012, 10:21
Yep.
The whole process is driven by consumerism. Joe twelvepack has to have his trinkets/pacifiers.

Bob Salomon
23-May-2012, 13:01
"AND the highest CEO"

What is the "highest CEO"

Do you mean the Chairman of the Board? Or the Chief Executive Officer?

Noah A
23-May-2012, 15:23
I don't see what this has to do with China either, and in any event this forum is not the venue for political discussions. It has more to do with a company licensing its good name to a different company that seems to make inferior products. That's a shame but it's perfectly legal for them to do so.

I'm curious, did the bag in question claim to have the Pelican lifetime warranty? That would be outright illegal.

Lots of companies make products with different warranty coverage depending on what you're buying. It's always good to read the fine print, even if the item is coming from a company you trust.

And Bob: Rimowa is apparently making Aluminum cases in Canada too, not just the polycarbonate ones. The Topas Multiwheel aluminum case I was looking at was clearly marked that it was made in Canada. However, I don't doubt that the quality is good and I know the warranty is the same in this case, which is how it should be. I went with the Halliburton for reasons that have nothing to do with where either case is made (though Zero's lifetime warranty was a plus).

Drew Bedo
23-May-2012, 19:18
Noah a,

Everything you said about the Haliburton aluminum cases regarding the assumption of high quality and a solid warenty were issues that I took for granted when getting this "Pelican" case. Was I a careful shopper—no—the mame spoke for itself . . .I thought.

I didn't look, but I am told that the tag strates that its a "limited 5 year" warenty. When pushed on this though; the importer requires a receipt and even though the bag is less than 5yrs old it also has to be a "current" model.

Bob Salomon
24-May-2012, 03:50
Interesting that they now make or assemble them in North America. We have several of the German made Topas cases from when we were the Rimowa distributor in the USA.

Mike Bates
24-May-2012, 06:57
The bottom line is that some bags or cases manufactured and sold under the Pelican name don't have the same level of workmanship and don't have the same warranty as the cases we normally associate with Pelican.

That's the message. I'm a little surprised Pelican is OK with that message, but it sounds like they are.

I have to think this makes buyers more suspect of the Pelican brand in general.

Noah A
24-May-2012, 07:34
Noah a,

Everything you said about the Haliburton aluminum cases regarding the assumption of high quality and a solid warenty were issues that I took for granted when getting this "Pelican" case. Was I a careful shopper—no—the mame spoke for itself . . .I thought.

I didn't look, but I am told that the tag strates that its a "limited 5 year" warenty. When pushed on this though; the importer requires a receipt and even though the bag is less than 5yrs old it also has to be a "current" model.

I would have assumed the same. I'm sorry to hear that you got screwed over, but thanks for alerting us about your experience. I know I'll be sure to read the fine print and do a bit of research, even when buying from companies with a good reputation.

bdkphoto
24-May-2012, 08:27
Noah a,

Everything you said about the Haliburton aluminum cases regarding the assumption of high quality and a solid warenty were issues that I took for granted when getting this "Pelican" case. Was I a careful shopper—no—the mame spoke for itself . . .I thought.

I didn't look, but I am told that the tag strates that its a "limited 5 year" warenty. When pushed on this though; the importer requires a receipt and even though the bag is less than 5yrs old it also has to be a "current" model.

Drew-

I had the same problems that you did with my soft side rolling Pelican bag. Mine was replaced under the 5 year warranty several years back (broken zipper IIRC). When the bag broke again a few weeks ago I called pelican, got reminded that I had to call Omega, and Omega reminded me that it was a limited 5 year warranty. My bag was at least 10yrs old. I don't remember whether I had the receipt- but they did honor the warranty the first time. This last time i just fixed the bag myself in about 5 minutes. Retractable handle didn't work and one of the feet broke off - it was an easy fix.

I do remember checking the bags at the store after mine broke the first time and the tags did read 5 year limited warranty.... caveat emptor.

Leigh
24-May-2012, 09:54
I won't buy anything made in China. I'll buy a second hand item if I have to...
I'm with you 200% on that.

- Leigh

Steve Smith
24-May-2012, 10:02
It is not fair to make such generalisations about the whole manufacturing output of one country. China might have some companies with no quality control but they also have many making excellent products.

The same is true of most other countries including the US, the UK, Japan, etc.


Steve.

Leigh
24-May-2012, 10:05
Well, Steve,

You need to take off your rose-colored glasses and look at the real world.

- Leigh

Steve Smith
24-May-2012, 10:18
You need to take off your rose-colored glasses and look at the real world.

No need. I work for the British subsidiary of an American company which in turn is owned by a huge Chinese company. I know how it works in all three countries.

http://www.parlex.com/

Owned by:

http://www.johnsonelectric.com/en/index.html

Incidentally, in the 1980s, the person I worked for at the time would only buy Japanese products. Nothing else was good enough for him!


Steve.

Drew Wiley
24-May-2012, 11:26
A sterotype is not a universal, but it does tend to have a statistical basis. With considerable difficulty in infracstructure, high quality products can be made in China. But
90% of the time there is only one reason a label goes there - low bid, minimal quality control (if any), rapidly inflate proftits and screw the end user. It's the equivalent of slash
and burn agriculture. Looks good on paper for a year or two, then nothing decent ever grows there again. As a professional buyer, once a mfg goes to China I prepare to dump
them. The result is all too predicatable. But now many of them are looking for even cheaper places to mfg like Bangledesh and Vietnam. I've got nothing against any of those
countries - pay them a fair wage in safe working conditions, mfg a quality product, and
then you've got something resembling a level playing field.

Drew Bedo
24-May-2012, 12:27
bdkphoto:

this has been going on for TEN YEARS? I have known of and seen (and bought) Pelican hard cases for decades and never saw one of these soft sided cases till last year. I simply can't believe Pelican has been selling this low-grade stuff fot ten years and I'ne never heard of it before. I have been cruising camera stores and shows since auto-exposure, aurto focus, film-free cameras were science fiction and never saw a Pelican soft sided bag 'till last year.

This stuff is "so on the down-low" that it doesn't show up on the Pelican website. Yet they claim that it is an actual and genuine Pelivcan product . . .without the Pelican warenty. What a corporate sell-out!

Drew Bedo
24-May-2012, 12:43
Steve, Leigh and Others:

Again, the issues are quality of manufacture and corporate integrity. "Made in Japan" used to be a negative phrase too. Now I buy Japanese branded photo gear with an eye to quality not where it was made.

If I were to buy a Mercedes, I woild expect that it was a quality product.

Even the "Made-In-Canada" Leica gear, thoughlooked down on by nose-in-the-air types, was covered and supported by E. Leitz just as though it was hand crfted by gnomes in the Black Forest of Germany. The company stood behind the product.

bdkphoto
24-May-2012, 13:37
bdkphoto:

this has been going on for TEN YEARS? I have known of and seen (and bought) Pelican hard cases for decades and never saw one of these soft sided cases till last year. I simply can't believe Pelican has been selling this low-grade stuff fot ten years and I'ne never heard of it before. I have been cruising camera stores and shows since auto-exposure, aurto focus, film-free cameras were science fiction and never saw a Pelican soft sided bag 'till last year.

This stuff is "so on the down-low" that it doesn't show up on the Pelican website. Yet they claim that it is an actual and genuine Pelivcan product . . .without the Pelican warenty. What a corporate sell-out!

It's not really a low grade product IMO, they honored their warranty and I have been using this professionally with heavy use for 10-12 years. I have had all kinds of cases, mostly Tenba which are made here in Brooklyn, and many others. All have failed at some point under daily professional use. I have had numerous bags fixed, the tenbas cost a fortune to repair out of warranty-- they carry the same 3 / 5 year warranty as this Pelican case. I can't say I buy the Pelican again but I got my money's worth out of it and don't share your outrage. Find your receipt and get it fixed, read the warranty hang tags next time, or have it fixed and sell it. It cost me less than $3 and 5 minutes to repair. I'm not really into the pointless international trade debate that this has spurred.

Leigh
24-May-2012, 14:01
"Made in Japan" used to be a negative phrase too.
Yes, after the war Japanese manufacturing quality did not exist.
I remember growing up in the '50s, finding that every cheap trashy product was MiJ.

That was before William Edwards Deming (an American, BTW).
He established a quality-control mindset that's the envy of the world.

But he's dead, and not living in china.

The basis of quality, as WED proved so conclusively, is the personal commitment of everyone involved in the process.
Every individual, from the CEO to the janitor, must believe that s/he's helping to make the best product in the world.
This philosophy controls every decision by every person at every level on every occasion.

I used to be a design engineer at Motorola Communications, and we had that same mindset.
Every design decision focused on what was the best, most efficient, most reliable way to do something.
We were in fact building the best products of their kind in the world, and everyone was committed to doing it.

That philosophy does not exist in china,
and is totally in conflict with the aims and goals of their national leadership.

- Leigh

Drew Wiley
24-May-2012, 15:30
I'd put just as much blame on American mgt and American consumers who demand trash.
And we could all insist on plain labeling of point of mfg (which is in fact law). But I admit I
do sell one line of heavy-duty tool totes made in China which are positively the best you can buy. The entrepreneur made something like 26 visits to China before finding a suitable
manufacturer! The main problem was with communications - not the languages per se, but
the very idea of functionality, of making and testing something to fit a dedicated need.
More often I have salesmen handing me samples of things which have been mass produced
and have gone to market before any quality-control testing has been done whatsoever -
and nobody gives a damn. Someone will buy and distribute it based on price alone, whether
it works or not, or is even safe or not. Very, very frustating ... which is why, I must admit,
I am selling more and more German products.

Sevo
24-May-2012, 15:34
I used to be a design engineer at Motorola Communications, and we had that same mindset.
Every design decision focused on what was the best, most efficient, most reliable way to do something.


By the time they had to design a GUI for their GSM phones, that particular mojo had obviously left them - I've never had any other brand mobile with a worse user interface.



That philosophy does not exist in china,


The common assumption is that the Chinese, much like the Japanese have in fact more of a soft spot for excellence-for-excellence's-sake than the average American or European - hence their craving for Western prestige products and tendency to unashamedly copy anything they perceive as desirable.

BTW: What is up with all that China bashing? Is Murdoch TV drumming up for a war against China, now that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have to be considered at least as much lost as Vietnam?

Leigh
24-May-2012, 15:44
By the time they had to design a GUI for their GSM phones, that particular mojo had obviously left them
Completely different company.

MC, that I worked for, builds two-way radios for police, fire, and military applications, not consumer products.

- Leigh

Leigh
24-May-2012, 15:49
hence their craving for Western prestige products and tendency to unashamedly copy anything they perceive as desirable.
Sorry, but your argument fails miserably.

If it were true, then the "chinese copies" would be of the same quality as the products being copied.

They're not.

Therefore, the interest is in the prestige value, not the quality, e.g. phony Rolex watches.

- Leigh

Drew Bedo
24-May-2012, 15:53
Pelican both claims—and disowns—these bags in corporate schizophrenia.

Yours broke twice. Mine is broken in the same way, exactly, as yours. Not a sign of good design or manufacture.

I had a LowePro sling bag and the zipper slide on one small pocket went off track. They took care of it with no problem. Pelican has long advertized (and stood by) an equally strong consumer oriented policy of making things right. Now they hedge around with qualifications and tircky time limits (5 yrs unless its not current).

I too have used Motorola cell phones since the first Star-Tac due to their strong committment to excellent design and execution. That is why I bought this Pelican bag . . .and I will forever think twice about Pelican productsm in the future.

Drew Wiley
24-May-2012, 16:13
All it takes is one smart alec in marketing to talk a company into making a little extra profit
on the side by simply licensing their brand label to a secondary line of products. More than
one good company has gotten their reputation ruined this way. It's unfortunate, because
their core line of products might still be solid. It's really a big temptation with all the competeive pressures and related individual perks for those making such decisions. But I could cite the same kind of horror stories with Los Angeles machine shops in the 80's, when
the employed a lot of illegal labor that didn't understand the end use of the products. But
right now our own tax structure favors bigger and bigger corporations who have the ability
to globalize, find offshore tax havens, created marketing monopolies, and turn a blind eye
to unacceptable working conditions.

Sevo
25-May-2012, 00:27
Sorry, but your argument fails miserably.

If it were true, then the "chinese copies" would be of the same quality as the products being copied.

They're not.


Well, that has long been claimed of Japanese products as well...

Leigh
25-May-2012, 00:33
Well, that has long been claimed of Japanese products as well...
Except in the case of the Japanese, it's not true. They make very high quality products.

In fact, the Japanese firm Mitutoyo is the world standard for precision mechanical measurement.
The Japanese Lexus auto is considered one of the premier vehicles in the world.

And of course they're noted for their photographic products, like Nikkor lenses and Copal shutters.
Their Tachihara cameras are gorgeous.
The list goes on and on.

The Japanese do not make junk, unlike their neighbors to the west.

- Leigh

Steve Smith
25-May-2012, 00:54
A bit too much stereotyping there. The Chinese company I work for employs Gemba Kaizen and other manufacturing improvement techniques which were pioneered in Toyota's factories (yes, in Japan). The company owner is a very clever person who is always looking at his manufacturing processes and looking for improvements in efficiency.

e.g. when developing a machine to carry out a proces, it must be easy to load the component parts and must deliver the finished piece to the operator in the most convenient way for it to be passed to the next stage.

The company promotes the use of small machinery in a 'one piece flow' process which is easy to scale up to whatever the production demands are.

I know that this is not typical of all Chinese companies but6 to state that everything made in China is crap is just wrong.

It's like me stating that all Americans weigh 400 pounds, drive pickup trucks with gun racks and eat at McDonalds every day. A common stereotype, but one which we know isn't really true.


Steve.

Bob Salomon
25-May-2012, 05:15
"the importer requires a receipt"

No they don't. What if you had received it as a gift?

You just have not talked to them properly or enough. Have you actually talked to them on the phone? Not Pelican but Omega Brandess.

Ron McElroy
25-May-2012, 08:05
A bit too much stereotyping there.
It's like me stating that all Americans weigh 400 pounds, drive pickup trucks with gun racks and eat at McDonalds every day. A common stereotype, but one which we know isn't really true.


Steve.

I don't know Steve, have you ever been to Memphis? :rolleyes:

BrianShaw
25-May-2012, 08:18
I don't know Steve, have you ever been to Memphis? :rolleyes:

... or Wichita, and that's just describing the women.

Drew Bedo
25-May-2012, 09:27
"the importer requires a receipt"

No they don't. What if you had received it as a gift?

You just have not talked to them properly or enough. Have you actually talked to them on the phone? Not Pelican but Omega Brandess.


yes, I called Omega Brands at (800)777-6634 and spoke to their customer service person (who was nice to me). I understood fro9m her, that I had to have a receipt, and that it must be acurrent model bag because they had no parts for repair. If anyone has an "in" with these folks over there, I'd appreciate it if you would put in a good word for me.

Kevin Crisp
25-May-2012, 09:41
I went diving on WWII wrecks in Truk about 15 years ago. Since the danger of losing light from a dive light inside a dark and silty wreck is considerable, I bought a US-made Pelican dive light that had built in back up. Two separate contacts on the switch, two bulbs, two sets of batteries. Of course I had a smaller back up light too.

First dive at just 40' it leaked in a big way. With salt water this causes gushing orange discharge from the light. It was ruined. I returned it and they sent a new one, without explanation, but with a different design on the purge valve. If the company could put out a US made "dive light" that can't handle a third of its rated depth, I decided I would avoid their products.

Did the licensed bag come with a warranty? What did it say? Some of the Chinese Lowe brand bags are excellent quality but made in China. I think Tamrac bags are still made in the US.

BrianShaw
25-May-2012, 09:50
I think Tamrac bags are still made in the US.

Only the ones with a 3-digit product code. The offshore made (with a 4-digit product code) are well-made too.

cdholden
25-May-2012, 09:50
Kevin,
Underwater Kinetics. Your search is over.

Chris

Drew Bedo
25-May-2012, 10:16
Well; I bought it used on the basis of the Pelican name and reputation. I assumed that the Pelican warenty was good. I have a Pelican hard shell case that has served me well and I assumed that this bag would be at least as tough as my LowePro bags.

Pelican customer service insists that this is a genuine Pelican product an dnot a knock-off or pirate copy, yet they won't stand by it. They refered me to Omega Brands.

So it would seem that this is not really a Pelican product after all.

As for "well made": I have had had Wallmart luggage tghat traveled more times and further with heavier loads that lasted much longer. The "foot" that broke off was fastened with little rivits that sheared off. This could be/should be a simple fix . . .but they won't.

BrianShaw
25-May-2012, 10:18
... so it would seem that they need a brush-up lesson in customer service!

Bob Salomon
25-May-2012, 13:07
Their actual name is Satter Omega. They bought both Brandess and Aetna Optic.

Any luggage repair shop should be easily able to repair any hardware as well as seams, stitching, etc. If you are not familiar with luggage repair shops a very good one is Square Luggage in Morristown, NJ. We made them an authorized Rimowa Service Center when we were the Rimowa luggage distributor for the USA. I believe that they still are Rimowa authorized.

If you bought the case at a show and took it off the floor then most likely it was bought from W.B. Hunt, Midwest, Samy's, Houston Camera Exchange or Precision Camera, depending on what show it was. All of these dealers will help you if you purchased from one of them. They have the best connection to the vendor.

E. von Hoegh
25-May-2012, 13:14
I went diving on WWII wrecks in Truk about 15 years ago. Since the danger of losing light from a dive light inside a dark and silty wreck is considerable, I bought a US-made Pelican dive light that had built in back up. Two separate contacts on the switch, two bulbs, two sets of batteries. Of course I had a smaller back up light too.

First dive at just 40' it leaked in a big way. With salt water this causes gushing orange discharge from the light. It was ruined. I returned it and they sent a new one, without explanation, but with a different design on the purge valve. If the company could put out a US made "dive light" that can't handle a third of its rated depth, I decided I would avoid their products.

Did the licensed bag come with a warranty? What did it say? Some of the Chinese Lowe brand bags are excellent quality but made in China. I think Tamrac bags are still made in the US.

Lowe bags are now made in China too? I have one that was made in Ireland, from the late 80s.

Steve Smith
25-May-2012, 13:17
I'm not sure how the law works in the US but I assume it's the same as here.

I.e. if you consider the item to be not fit for purpose then it is the responsibility of the person/company who sold it to you to remedy the situation rather than the manufacturer.


Steve.

Old-N-Feeble
25-May-2012, 13:23
Here in the USA we may just be SOL. Seller responsibility? What's that? Even if laws were in place here no government agency would enforce them for small purchases unless there's an infringement on some giant corporation. We little guys are not protected. We do have excellent retailers who do support the products they sell but we have lousy retailers too. If we see a "good deal" from a retailer we're not familiar then we know we're gambling with our purchase. Isn't it that way all around the globe?

Steve Smith
25-May-2012, 13:35
Over here items are often advertised with a line or two about the retailers' warranty policy which usually ends with the words 'this does not affect your statutory rights'

What this means is that whilst the retailer might give a three month or twelve month warranty, this is in addition to the law and not instead of it. This might seem obvious but it is stated almost all of the time.

http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2011/07/04/this-does-not-affect-your-statutory-rights-%E2%80%93-what-it-really-means/


Steve.

Old-N-Feeble
25-May-2012, 13:41
You have government agencies that will enforce your laws regarding very small purchases without you being out-of-pocket hundreds of quid to hire an attorney? That won't happen here in the USA unless we "know someone". While falsely advertised items must be made good to the mass consumer market there is no "enforced" protection for individuals.

Steve Smith
25-May-2012, 14:03
You have government agencies that will enforce your laws regarding very small purchases without you being out-of-pocket hundreds of quid to hire an attorney?

Small claims court. Lawyers not allowed as you have to represent yourself (plaintiff and defendant). You can even make some claims on-line and they will do the chasing up for you. I think it's a £40 fee. If you win, the defendant pays your fee as well as your claim.

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome


Steve.

Old-N-Feeble
25-May-2012, 14:12
Oh, okay. We have small claims court too but even when we win collection efforts would be too costly.

Drew Bedo
26-May-2012, 06:17
And thats what the importer and disttributor count on. The total amount is too shere, mall to make a legal issue out of. Thats why I raise it here, in the court of public opinion.

From now on: When it comes to Pelican products, its "Buyer Beware!"

E. von Hoegh
26-May-2012, 07:20
And thats what the importer and disttributor count on. The total amount is too shere, mall to make a legal issue out of. Thats why I raise it here, in the court of public opinion.

From now on: When it comes to Pelican products, its "Buyer Beware!"
Caveat emptor is pretty much the way it is anywhere in the retail world.

Shootar401
27-May-2012, 05:18
I would rather buy a product For $100 without a warranty that was made in the USA, UK or Mainland Europe than the same one for $5 that was made in china and had a lifetime warranty.

Steve Smith
27-May-2012, 06:31
Why?


Steve.

Drew Bedo
27-May-2012, 07:06
Caveat emptor is pretty much the way it is anywhere in the retail world.

Of coures: Buyer Beware is always the first rule.

I am confident that if I buy a roduct from LowePro or Halibrton, that they will stand by their name regardless of where the item was made.

Haliburton cases may be refurbished if they need it. They replaced a broken latch on one for me.I had a LowePro Sling Bag and caught the zipper on a doorknob. Asked if they would fix it. They said "sure" and I sent it in. they sent me a new bag inserts and all. My Daughter -in-law now keeps her Canon 5-D in it.

I have a Pelican hard case that is just plain tough. II like itunderstsaning that Pekiccan will fix or replace it if it no longer works properly.

That type of cvorporate care and support is what I thought I was buying into when I picked up this case. It seemed like a well made bag and works well for me as a photo bag. That fact that it cannot be refurbished under any circumstance is troubling. The fact that Pelican both claims it and disowns it has really made me think twice about buying anything else from Pelican.

Leigh
27-May-2012, 15:10
I would rather buy a product For $100 without a warranty that was made in the USA, UK or Mainland Europe than the same one for $5 that was made in china and had a lifetime warranty.
Absolutely. I feel the same, except I would put no upper limit on the price of the quality product.

- Leigh

Leigh
27-May-2012, 15:16
...it must be a current model bag because they had no parts for repair.
My point exactly.

They have no quality control whatsoever.

They order enough parts to make 10,000 products. They make 10,000 products and ship 10,000 products.

They do not hold back a portion of the parts inventory as spares for repairing the product if it fails during QC,
nor in the future after it reaches the customer, like reputable manufacturers do.

In fact they don't want products to last. You don't keep workers employed by making quality products (so they think).
You keep workers employed by making the same thing year after year, and expecting customers to replace products
that fail year after year.

- Leigh

Old-N-Feeble
27-May-2012, 15:18
I don't think manufacturers care much about worker employment except how that affects profit.

Leigh
27-May-2012, 15:23
I don't think manufacturers care much about worker employment except how that affects profit.
Quite true.

In fact, their only concern is profits.

Profits come from sales, sales require products, and products require factories and workers,
which was the genesis of my statement.

They've built such a huge manufacturing infrastructure based on a throw-away quality standard that switching to
a quality-based philosophy would shut down hundreds of plants and create a gigantic unemployment problem.


- Leigh

Old-N-Feeble
27-May-2012, 15:29
1980's-1990's US automobiles :D

Leigh
27-May-2012, 16:41
1980's-1990's US automobiles :D
I never claimed the chinese invented poor quality

... but they've certainly perfected it as a business standard.

- Leigh

Erik Larsen
27-May-2012, 17:05
I never claimed the chinkese invented poor quality

... but they've certainly perfected it as a business standard.

- Leigh

I hope that's a typo?

Leigh
27-May-2012, 17:09
No, it's a physical affliction. I'm a touch typist.

Every time I type that word the middle finger of my right hand extends spontaneously, hitting the K key.

No offense intended. :D

- Leigh

Steve Smith
27-May-2012, 22:43
If company A sub-contracts company B to make a product for them, company A is fully responsible for the quality of the product produced.

It doesn't matter which country either of the companies is in.


Steve.

Leigh
27-May-2012, 22:55
If company A sub-contracts company B to make a product for them, company A is fully responsible for the quality of the product produced.
Great theory, Steve.

Tell that to the OP who can't get his bag fixed.

What, exactly, would you suggest he do?

- Leigh

Steve Smith
28-May-2012, 00:03
It's not a theory, it's a fact.

To the OP, the person or company who sold him the faulty product is responsible for its replacement regardless of who made it or where it was made.


Steve.

Sevo
28-May-2012, 00:56
It's not a theory, it's a fact.

To the OP, the person or company who sold him the faulty product is responsible for its replacement regardless of who made it or where it was made.


Within the EU, for two years after purchase, right. Elsewhere, there might be no similar consumer protection law, and the buyer might have to resort to warranties voluntarily offered by the maker, importer, distributor or seller - where each would only be responsible for the warranty he offered himself.

Old-N-Feeble
28-May-2012, 05:59
VOLUNTARY... now that's an interesting word. Yes, that is essentally is true. Only those manufacturers (now just name-stampers) who voluntarily back their "lifetime warranty" products should be purchased from. So, for me, Pelican is out.

B.S.Kumar
28-May-2012, 06:56
I have something good to say about Pelican.

I bought a Pelican 1500 ~15 years ago, and it has served me very well. A couple of months ago, I noticed that the O-ring needed to be replaced. I called/wrote/texted to the distributor from whom I had purchased it. Every time, he'd say that I'd receive the O-ring in a few days. Finally, last Friday, I wrote to Pelican head office asking them to help. The mail was forwarded to Rajesh Hakhu, Country Manager for India. Within a couple of hours, he sent me a mail saying that he had asked for the O-ring to be sent to me via Fedex at no charge to me, and that I would receive it in in a few days.

Kumar

Ari
28-May-2012, 07:37
I have something good to say about Pelican.

I bought a Pelican 1500 ~15 years ago, and it has served me very well. A couple of months ago, I noticed that the O-ring needed to be replaced. I called/wrote/texted to the distributor from whom I had purchased it. Every time, he'd say that I'd receive the O-ring in a few days. Finally, last Friday, I wrote to Pelican head office asking them to help. The mail was forwarded to Rajesh Hakhu, Country Manager for India. Within a couple of hours, he sent me a mail saying that he had asked for the O-ring to be sent to me via Fedex at no charge to me, and that I would receive it in in a few days.

Kumar

A story that is likely more typical of the way Pelican (the real one) deals with its customers.

Eric Rose
28-May-2012, 08:16
People get what they want and what they deserve. Today's WalMart shoppers mentality of "I want it cheap, I want it now, and I don't care about quaility" has filtered down to just about everything we buy. People have been conditioned to accept inferior products because they feel they are getting such a great deal. That's a laugh! The cheaper product breaks quicker, has no support and takes jobs away from local workers. Unfortunately this race to the bottom has only benefited the corporate clowns and the boobs they fund to look the other way when jobs are exported.

Old-N-Feeble
28-May-2012, 09:01
Gotta' agree with Eric's post... and am guilty of spiraling down the same toilet bowl that I hypocritically b*tch about... as do most of us. The biggest problem is there are so few domestically-manufactured products left to buy. Even most of those products labelled "Made In the USA", by import law, need only have minimal assembly here.

I knew an audio retailer in Texas who had is very own brand name (withheld) of amplifiers. He had a small team of minimum-wage flunkies with zero audio training in a back room assembling audio amplifiers and sticking "Made In USA" and his brand name on the chassis. The parts? Korean-made boards, heat sinks and screws. Hell, maybe the "Made In USA" and brand-name labels were Korean-made too... I don't remember. At any rate, as little as a few quick dabs of heat-sink compound and 22 screws later and... voila!! A brand new made-in-the-USA store-branded amplifier is born... in about 120 seconds. This makes me proud...

Drew Bedo
28-May-2012, 10:33
Steve:

I am interested in knowing if this line of soft sided bags is available in Europe. If so, I'd like to know what support is available to someone buying one new at retail. EU consumer protection sounds comprehensive. I encourage you to check on this for us.

What Pelican has done is to license their name and logo to some third party, Omega (800)212-4740. Omega has the stuff made for them, then imports and markets the linea, as if it actually were a Pelican product (with the Pelican logo)—but with a limited warranty.

The warranty from Omega seems reasonable at five years, but the reality is that most models do not stay in stock for more than, say, 18 months to maybe 2 years. Omega has no ability to repair anything and stocks no parts. All warranty service is to replace the item.

While Pelican will promote/market these products as compatible with the hard shell cases, Pelican will have nothing to do with the bags—or Omega—regarding repair or quality control.

Its one of those things that may be legal but just doesn't seem “right”.
seem "right".

Drew Bedo
28-May-2012, 11:08
People get what they want and what they deserve. Today's WalMart shoppers mentality of "I want it cheap, I want it now, and I don't care about quaility" has filtered down to just about everything we buy. People have been conditioned to accept inferior products because they feel they are getting such a great deal. That's a laugh! The cheaper product breaks quicker, has no support and takes jobs away from local workers. Unfortunately this race to the bottom has only benefited the corporate clowns and the boobs they fund to look the other way when jobs are exported.

Eric and Old:

This is why I often buy pre-qwned gear from high-end brands: Zone VI, Lowe Pro Nikon and so on. This is the strategy that failed me with Pelican.

Pelican is now a second tier brand in my mind.

BrianShaw
28-May-2012, 11:32
... is now a second tier brand in my mind.

This is happening too much these days, with too many companies and products. It is sad; very sad.

I just had a nutty about a piece of sporting equipment (a Franklin product) that broke after one usage. Unfortunately the duration between the first usage and second usage was longer than the warantee period. The replacement part is certainly priced nominally, but WTF, a product from a world-renowned company like that only lasting one use?

And this is after having to have two LG televisions serviced under warantee - LCD display replacements - so maybe I'm hypersensitive at the moment. But why would a world-class company like LG need to have the most major component of their product replace in two units. I suppose it could be a supplier failer since both units had consecutive serial numbers... but really.

Everyone wants stuff cheap (me too) and throwing away is a way of life (me hate that) but c'mon... what's a guy to do except pay, pay, pay. I'm getting tired of giving my money away to some fat-cat(s) who lives in a mansion and drives a luxuray car, while I'm struggling and lots of other folks in the manufacturing/sales lines are getting screwed too.

I'm becoming vocal in the social media (trying to be fair but loud enough to be heard) and writing letters of disappointment directly to the companies and politely demanding warantee service. Some companies are responsive and provide service... but why should that be necessary -- some of this chep stuff isn't really inexpensive????

Drew Bedo
28-May-2012, 11:38
Brian: You are so right.

Quality issues aside; the "good news" is that you were able to get parts and service, whether under warranty or not.

Drew Bedo
28-May-2012, 11:51
I have something good to say about Pelican.

I bought a Pelican 1500 ~15 years ago, and it has served me very well. A couple of months ago, I noticed that the O-ring needed to be replaced. I called/wrote/texted to the distributor from whom I had purchased it. Every time, he'd say that I'd receive the O-ring in a few days. Finally, last Friday, I wrote to Pelican head office asking them to help. The mail was forwarded to Rajesh Hakhu, Country Manager for India. Within a couple of hours, he sent me a mail saying that he had asked for the O-ring to be sent to me via Fedex at no charge to me, and that I would receive it in in a few days.

Kumar


Kumar:

That type of service is what we have come to expect from Pelican. They do support the reaql Pelican cases. I get from your post that there was some delay and even miscommunication involved though. In the end, you were able to get what you needed.

The soft sided cases are treated "like a red-haitred step-child" ( A colloquial expression some folks use here in Texas. The remark is intended to be colorful and is not meant to disparage people with red hair or persons with step-parents)

The hard shell cases are still genuine Pelican products supported by the traditional life-time warranty.

The soft sided cases are not really Pelican products and have a verry restricted warranty that is not supported by Pelican.

The bottom line is: Watch what you buy from Pelican.

B.S.Kumar
28-May-2012, 20:30
Drew, there was no miscommunication between me and the distributor, only delay, leading to my writing to Pelican directly. I'm glad to save a few bucks getting the part free, but I'd have been happier if the distributor had sold it to me two months ago. Pelican's service was excellent, but I think part of what makes a company great is how everyone representing it also delivers excellent service. On that count, Pelican needs to improve.

Kumar

Drew Bedo
29-May-2012, 04:58
Right, I understand the frustration in trying to get someone to do what is "right".

One of Demming's primary rules of company quality improvement is that every employee from top to bottom should b devoted to excellence. Pelican needs to make some changes.

E. von Hoegh
29-May-2012, 08:40
People get what they want and what they deserve. Today's WalMart shoppers mentality of "I want it cheap, I want it now, and I don't care about quaility" has filtered down to just about everything we buy. People have been conditioned to accept inferior products because they feel they are getting such a great deal. That's a laugh! The cheaper product breaks quicker, has no support and takes jobs away from local workers. Unfortunately this race to the bottom has only benefited the corporate clowns and the boobs they fund to look the other way when jobs are exported.

This is absolutely true and correct. The sheeple are addicted to their shiny things, and are paying the price. People need to learn to distinguish between wants and needs, but if they ever do and put it into practice, the U.S. economy will come screeching to a halt.

Drew Wiley
29-May-2012, 08:48
An extremely common trick is to give something a lifetime replacement warranty and simply
discontinue the model within a few months so it is incapable of being officially replaced. All it takes is a new model #, a different bar code, some very minor cosmetic change. This is the prevailing custom with brands who cater to big box chains. In the long run all that matters is the manufacturers integrity. I takes a long time to build up trust but only a short time to lose it. An unfortunately, integrity is not something taught in marketing.

E. von Hoegh
29-May-2012, 08:52
An extremely common trick is to give something a lifetime replacement warranty and simply
discontinue the model within a few months so it is incapable of being officially replaced. All it takes is a new model #, a different bar code, some very minor cosmetic change. This is the prevailing custom with brands who cater to big box chains. In the long run all that matters is the manufacturers integrity. I takes a long time to build up trust but only a short time to lose it. An unfortunately, integrity is not something taught in marketing.

Another problem is that we have a couple generations which have never, it seems, seen a quality product. The government defines "durable" as something lasting three years, for Christ's sake! Folks buy things with the expectation that it will be thrown in the dump in a few years.

E. von Hoegh
29-May-2012, 08:53
Right, I understand the frustration in trying to get someone to do what is "right".

One of Demming's primary rules of company quality improvement is that every employee from top to bottom should b devoted to excellence. Pelican needs to make some changes.


Those changes won't happen until and unless the consumer makes them happen

Eric Rose
29-May-2012, 13:35
I just posted a blog that touches on many of the issues voiced in this thread. Check it out. http://blog.ericrose.com/?p=598

E. von Hoegh
29-May-2012, 13:52
I just posted a blog that touches on many of the issues voiced in this thread. Check it out. http://blog.ericrose.com/?p=598

Yes, the sense of entitlement (I deserve this!) and instant gratification (I deserve this NOW!) coupled with things becoming osolete in as short a time as 6-9 months has given the retailer of imported crap a goldmine.

Steve Smith
29-May-2012, 14:37
I appreciated the bit about three speed bicycles. Mainly because my bicycle is a forty year old English three speed - a Hercules Balmoral.


Steve.

E. von Hoegh
29-May-2012, 14:42
I appreciated the bit about three speed bicycles. Mainly because my bicycle is a forty year old English three speed - a Hercules Balmoral.


Steve.

Sturmey-Archer?

Steve Smith
29-May-2012, 15:02
Sturmey-Archer?

Yes.

74396

Steve.

Darin Boville
29-May-2012, 15:27
Drew Bebo, let me get this straight,

You come on the board bitching about Pelican cases. You bitch and bitch and bitch--fourteen pages worth now.

You say here that you bought a soft-sided Pelican case. You bought it a year ago. And now there is a problem with the handle and broken feet. Boo-hoo, Pelican won't help you out.

What you forgot to mention--did it slip your mind?--that you bought the case *used,* not new. Did you know that warranties don't generally apply to used gear?

What you also forgot to mention is that you bought the case in *damaged* condition--with the handle issue and the broken foot ***already existing*** when you bought it. You knew full well the damaged condition of the item--presumably you got a great deal because of the damage--and you were hoping to get it fixed for free.

In other words, you were hoping to scam Pelican. But it didn't work. So you came here lying and bitching in an attempt to damage their reputation.

Do I have that right?

--Darin

Old-N-Feeble
29-May-2012, 16:05
I guess I missed where the case was bought used in damaged condition... and I'm too tired to search through 14 pages to find it.

Darin Boville
29-May-2012, 16:18
I guess I missed where the case was bought used in damaged condition... and I'm too tired to search through 14 pages to find it.

Old-N-Feeble, You didn't miss it. Drew Bebo sort of forgot to mention those details (In fact, in his original post he strongly implies that the damage occurred about a year after the purchase) . But he did post a version of the story elsewhere on the web which included more detail:

http://www.pixtus.com/forum/camera-bags-cases/164884-pelican-warenty-not-what-used.html

On the pixtus forum, Drew writes:

"I bought a used Pelican soft sided camera bag. I had no idea that Pelican made soft bags,; it looked good and seemed arranges conveniently for my intended use.Its a combination roll-around/backpack large enough for my 8x10 view camera. When I bought it I was aware that there were two problems: The pull-out handle didn't extend fully and one of the "feet" on the bottom was broken off. While these are things I might be able to fix (the foot probably) I called Pelican customer servic to see if it could be repaired."

Compare that to the original post here:

"I have a soft sided roll around/backpack that works fine as a camera bag. But now0 the pull-out handle won't deploy fully and one of the "feet" has broken off the bottom."

Quite a contrast, huh? Sort of gives you a negative view of human nature :)

--Darin

Old-N-Feeble
29-May-2012, 16:28
Oh my...

Leigh
29-May-2012, 16:30
Drew...

Kinda looks like you've been caught out.

Shame on you.

- Leigh

Drew Bedo
29-May-2012, 20:29
I’m sorry, I don’t see anything wrong in buying a previously owned item and having it refurbished.

I have bought many items used. Buying new is expensive. Buying used always involves risk : “Buyer Beware” is always the first rule. In this case, I was mistaken in thinking that this was a bag supported in any way by Pelican.

I have given examples of other items that I have bought used that eventually or immediately needed parts or service. These were fixed by the company either under warranty or at MY OWN E#XPENSE. That neither Pelican nor Omega will have anything to do with fixing this bag, even if I pay for it, is the issue here.

In the initial phone contact with both companies, I asked how I could arrange to have the bag repaired. "Free or Fee" didn't apply. Neither company has any interest in fixing the bag: not for free nor for any amount of money.

At this time the bag in question is holding my 8x10 camera as it is stored in a closet. That is what the bag is good for—and I’m alright with that.

Pelican has had a terrific reputation for customer support in the past. That time is over.

Bob Salomon
30-May-2012, 02:53
" how I could arrange to have the bag repaired. "Free or Fee" "

Your problems are very common in the luggage industry. Just take it to a local luggage store. They can either fix it or get it fixed.

bdkphoto
30-May-2012, 04:46
I’m sorry, I don’t see anything wrong in buying a previously owned item and having it refurbished.

I have bought many items used. Buying new is expensive. Buying used always involves risk : “Buyer Beware” is always the first rule. In this case, I was mistaken in thinking that this was a bag supported in any way by Pelican.

I have given examples of other items that I have bought used that eventually or immediately needed parts or service. These were fixed by the company either under warranty or at MY OWN E#XPENSE. That neither Pelican nor Omega will have anything to do with fixing this bag, even if I pay for it, is the issue here.

In the initial phone contact with both companies, I asked how I could arrange to have the bag repaired. "Free or Fee" didn't apply. Neither company has any interest in fixing the bag: not for free nor for any amount of money.

At this time the bag in question is holding my 8x10 camera as it is stored in a closet. That is what the bag is good for—and I’m alright with that.

Pelican has had a terrific reputation for customer support in the past. That time is over.


You are incorrect. Omega both honored their warranty, and offered to repair my bag (soft side rolling) after the warranty expired. The repair offer was made 3 weeks ago. You have no cause for complaint buying used, damaged gear, and expecting warranty service and a free ride. You are just too cheap to pay for the shipping and repair fee. It's interesting that you didn't even ask how I fixed my bag for less than $2 and 10 minutes of time. Very telling.

BrianShaw
30-May-2012, 06:20
Oh my...

My thoughts exactly.

Darin is quite the investigative reporter, eh?

Old-N-Feeble
30-May-2012, 06:39
Yes, and apparently he has a good sense of right and wrong... unlike some of us.

Hey, I've got some used gear for sale that needs repair. I invite all to buy it at a huge discount with my full disclosure of precisely what needs servicing then please, oh please, demand that I pay for those repairs.

Better yet... let me buy your used gear after you've told me exactly what needs servicing and I'll demand that you repair it at your expense.

I'm not trying to be rude or cruel but I have absolutely NO patience with dishonesty.

E. von Hoegh
30-May-2012, 07:04
Uh-oh. Can someone say "disingenuous"? Sure ya can.

Old-N-Feeble
30-May-2012, 07:37
I'm upset because I feel "pulled in" to bad-mouthing Pelican. Everything was worded in such a way as to infer this was a new bag, not bought used and damaged. Had I known the whole truth I never would have said a single thing against Pelican. I feel suckered and stupid and I resent it. I'm sorry but I feel incredibly moronic for joining a "mob mentality" by being duped. Hopefully, In future I've learned to be more careful before I choose a side to defend.

rdenney
30-May-2012, 09:01
This is an example of what's wrong with bringing complaints to an internet forum. It's impossible to know the story behind what we hear, and even in this case I do not believe the OP was writing in bad faith. Someone writes from their perspective, and we all dump on the object of their complaint. We discover their perspective might not have been fully explained, and the dumpage goes the other way. We should realize that the dumpage is the problem--we'll almost never have real perspective on these situations.

And I think we'd all be better off if we resisted the temptation to extrapolate every minor situation reported here into a reason to reiterate our general complaints about the world at large, whatever those happen to be at the moment.

Rick "who buys cases based on observed quality, not on reputation" Denney

BrianShaw
30-May-2012, 09:20
"same is true (incomplete stories, unique points-of-view, dumpage-without-verification, etc) of many in-person complaints"

Old-N-Feeble
30-May-2012, 09:31
Rick... While I agree with what you wrote (I usually do), I'm sure the OP knew what he was doing by never mentioning that he bought the bag used and damaged until this was exposed by someone else. I often fail to convey my views/ideas/ideals in my initial post but I add details I missed. I never intentionally leave out important information. This is willful tarnishing of an entity without full disclosure of very important facts. That's just wrong. Had he provided all the facts, as best he could, then I wouldn't be writing this post.

Drew Bedo
30-May-2012, 09:42
bdk photo: Thanks for the real-world experience with Omega. I talked with the receptionist at Omega, who said ahe would handle the issue. All my information comes from this person at Omega. I understood—from her-that they didn't have parts or any repair ability. Had I been given the option you had, I wouldn't have gotten into this self-ritious quagmire.

I contacted Omega at 800-777-6634 . . .is there another number?

Regards,

E. von Hoegh
30-May-2012, 09:46
I just found out that the Pelican camera bag that I have was made in China and they don't honor the usual warranty!

I have a soft sided roll around/backpack that works fine as a camera bag. But now0 the pull-out handle won't deploy fully and one of the "feet" has broken off the bottom. I can't pull it and it won't stand up. When I called Pelican customer service, they told me it was a Pelican licensed product made in China and the warranty didn't apply. The importer, Omega-somethuing, doesnt seem to have any intention of making this right.

I am very disappointed in Pelican. I always thought they were a really good company. Now I find they are like everyone else out there.

No matter how you cut it, spin it, rationalise it, or excuse it, this is deliberately disingenuous and craps on the trust of everyone here.

bdkphoto
30-May-2012, 10:23
bdk photo: Thanks for the real-world experience with Omega. I talked with the receptionist at Omega, who said ahe would handle the issue. All my information comes from this person at Omega. I understood—from her-that they didn't have parts or any repair ability. Had I been given the option you had, I wouldn't have gotten into this self-ritious quagmire.

Really, 16 pages of BS says otherwise. You love to complain.

I contacted Omega at 800-777-6634 . . .is there another number?

The best advice on getting the bag fixed has already been posted, see if you can figure it out. It will be a good learning experience.

Regards,

Drew Bedo
30-May-2012, 11:14
bdkphoto:


I just called Omega: they still say they can't repair any bag under any circumstance, under warranty or not. Please contact me by PM with any different contact info for Omega.



You are incorrect. Omega both honored their warranty, and offered to repair my bag (soft side rolling) after the warranty expired. The repair offer was made 3 weeks ago. You have no cause for complaint buying used, damaged gear, and expecting warranty service and a free ride. You are just too cheap to pay for the shipping and repair fee. It's interesting that you didn't even ask how I fixed my bag for less than $2 and 10 minutes of time. Very telling.

Drew Bedo
30-May-2012, 11:23
To Everyone here:

I am sorry to have tied up this forum for so long with this issue.

I apologize to everyone for bringing so much drama into the LF.info community.

I will think about all this as so many different posters feel so deeply that I am worng.

Thank you all fopr your contributions.

bdkphoto
30-May-2012, 11:24
I just called Omega: they still say they can't repair any bag under any circumstance, under warranty or not.

Keep at it-you'll figure it out if you actually read through the thread and take the advice already proffered.