B&W on LightJet

[Geoffrey Swenson]

Has any of you seen B&W LightJet prints made on Fiber Based paper?

I’ve seen LightJets on the Fuji Archive color substrate with various kinds of tints, but I wonder how the same would look on a traditional base developed with similar chemistry, (traditional B&W that is). I heard, if that is true, LightJet operator do not like/want to load F.B. paper into their magnificent machines. Why is that?

[John Hennessy]

Since the paper in a Lightjet is exposed by RGB lasers with, as far as I know, no provision for filters, B&W paper (graded or VC) could only be used by completely reprograming the driver and/or the image file. If the shop does not maintain two paper development lines, the color line would have to be dumped and refilled with Dektol etc. Any shop would charge a fortune for that I assume.

I have never objectively measured the B&W prints I have had made on the Calypso Lightjet, but they look perfectly neutral to me. Only once have I sent one back for another try.

My guess is that "various tints" you have seen were intentional or from a Lightjet not calibrated or a processing line out whack.

[bob carnie]

Hi Geoffrey

Not only seen digital prints on fibre base paper , we have completed a few shows using Agfa fibre base paper exposed through Lambda exposing unit. www.elevatordigital.ca is the company that does this output is presently to 40x50 size , plans to do 4ft x 8ft output onto fibre in the spring. Most labs that own Lightjet or Lambda technology are RA4 based and have given up on traditional processes like fibre years ago. This technology is extremely expensive and requires a major commitment with service contracts to fufill . Therefore they concentrate on more commercial display type of work that is more mainstream and satisfys the banking community.

[jarrod connerty]

I've had The Slideprinter do Lightjets from 4x5 Acros negs that they also drum scanned for me, and comparing the finished product to contact prints of the same neg reveals only variances which have nothing to do with the neutrality of the b&w imagery. When I've had Agfa Scala printed on Type-R & there was always a slight color cast, but I'd be shocked if someone could identify any basis of color for the 24x30" that Slideprinter made for my wall from the Acros. It just looks like a damn good b&w print. YMMV.

[Geoffrey Swenson]

Thanks John,

Oh, I know that the tints are intentional, but somehow I don’t like the neutral look of Fuji Archive in B&W…it looks funny. Now I understand the hesitance on loading F.B. paper.

Bob, How do the prints you mention look like in comparison with the darkroom variety?

There has to be a better way to do digital B&W than the LightJet. Unfortunately, I don’t care too much about the Inkjets I’ve seen so far either. The only thing came close some “Carbon Prints” (not Piezography) I’ve seen once, but they couldn’t tell me if it was digital or not.

[bob carnie]

Hi Geoffrey

My experience with printing is good quality input - good quality output, The digital fibre can and does look exactly like a traditional fibre print, same paper, same chemicals, same toning capabilities. If you are happy with the quality experienced with lambda / lightjet output then you can rest assured the processing side is exactly the same. I was a doubter for years but must confess we daily print cibachrome traditionally and now digitally and I am amazed with the lambda-cibachrome quality. remember the quality is only as good as the scan and file management before it sees the exposing unit. We have not produced enough fibre shows to give you a better answer as of yet but ask me in three months and I will have seen more output to be fair in my assessment of my digital fibres vrs traditional fibres. What I do know that photoshop skills are mandatory and having a printers eye on the manipulations are paramount.

[Geoffrey Swenson]

Thanks Bob,

I’ll definitely check with you in three months. I am very happy with my Color LightJets, but not with the Monochrome ones. I’ll have to do some experiments I guess!

[tim atherton]

I think these guys are doing it - isn't exactly cheap, but maybe others will start?

http://www.the-imagepress.de

[Bruce Watson]

Tim,

They only go up to 50x60 cm. I would expect a lot larger from a machine like a LightJet.

There's a company out in CA somewhere (I think) that is using an LCD projector style enlarger to print digital files onto traditional photo paper. They had limited sizes too - because they use standard sized cut sheets with this enlarger. Could be a similar setup, but my high school German is just too fractured for me to get much more out of that website.

It doesn't seem as if it's such a stretch to use a machine like a LightJet to process standard photo paper in Dektol. There seems to be interest in it. I wonder why no one seems to want to do it. Seems like a good thing to do with a used LightJet from a closed photolab, doesn't it?

[Pino D]

We do b/w prints on out ligtjet.

Let me know if you would like a sample

[Roger Krueger]

www.reedphoto.com does matte RC in a Lightjet.

The big problems with running fiber in a Lightjet are having an entire fiber line set up to process it, and finding fiber paper on a roll--apparently the Lightjet has no means to sheet feed.

www.elevatordigital.ca does fiber on a Lambda, but I'm less than thrilled with the 200 dpi output limitation. (Heck, I'm less than thrilled with the 300 dpi limitation on the newer Lightjet, at least for smaller prints--reedphoto does still have on of the older Lightjets that can run at 406, and will do so if you ask.)

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

Yep, I dont recall the name of the person who had the exhibition before mine, I could find out for you if you want. He found some old glass plates from Mexico circa 1920. The plates were in very bad shape so he digitized them, cleaned them up and had fiber based prints made on a light jet. With exception of a few photographs where I guess the information was lost in the plates and there was no way to fix it and showed some digital artifacts, the mayority of the prints were gorgeous.

BTW one of the pics was from the town where I live and it was absolutely amazing. Sadly I could not afford it.

[bob carnie]

As promised to Geoffrey , I've had a few hundred digital fibres and digital cibas to look at since our initial posts ,and here are some of my initial thoughts on the quality of hybrid digital prints vs traditional enlarger prints. For digital we use a durst lambda exposing unit, for the ciba and fibre base paper For traditional we use condensor enlarger (negative in glass carriers) for fibre, and chromega colour enlarger (transparancey in glass carrier). We can run the lambda @ 200dpi or 400dpi which may address some of Rogers concerns.

I believe the main difference in look is somewhat like comparing a print done on a diffusion enlarger and one done on a condensor enlarger.( simple as that )

I also believe as I gain more compentency with photoshop and modifiy the file I can convincingly produce prints that look like condensor prints(fibre)

Roger : you are right , one needs a large fibre room to finish. presently my darkroom is 24feet of sink , with a washing area and large hot press to flatten the fibres, we are in the process of modifying the room to have 40 ft of sink to handle 40x60 fibres with a 44x72 inch vertical archival washer.( to do this kind of work succesfully you do require this).

Our first major show in our new gallery is Sept23-Jan 10 05 (this show includes 5 photographers , 7 large images each - Russel Monk-digital fibre base prints Steven James Brown- digital giclee prints Dr Mark Nowaczynski - traditional fibre prints Pierre Faubrujon- digital cibachromes Kelly Caldwell- traditional fibre prints.

All prints are produced in our shop and if you are familiar with the artists work you can see the differences in the different exposing units. ( I feel shameless plugging the show this way) but it is our way of introducing this new hybrid processes to our clients here in Toronto.

If there is interest I will update here in a few more months as each week we are doing more and more direct comparisons with work done in the past by artists I work with.

Bob Carnie