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Warren Williams
18-Jan-2004, 06:25
I am intereste in reentering the large format world after a 15 year break. Most of my photos will be of buildings/cityscape and the occasional landscape. I would like to keep the camera cost down to invest in some good wide angles so my question is this - How will the older generation of monorails (Arca-swiss B, Karden Super Color, Pre-calumet Cambo, Sinar F or the Alpina) perform for me.

From what I have gathered the old Cambo has a spring back so will be hard to fit with a reflex hood, and both the Arca swiss and Linhof may be hard to get accessoreis for (and expensive when I find them). Do any of them have a weight or durability advantage. I'm assuming the need for a bag bellows when I go below 90.

Finally, would I be better off getting a Shen-hao with a bag bellows and living with the limited movements or buying one of the low end modern Cambo/Calumets or Toyos. Again weignt, ease of use and durability are of primary concerns.

I really appreciate any guidance people might have for me.

John Bailey
18-Jan-2004, 06:31
Dear Warren

With current used/auction prices as they are, I might suggest you find a bit newer age camera. Obviously, older might me more difficultly in finding accessories, what do you do for repairs and parts, the number of use cycles might be less (yes, or the new one might have seen more use), etc.. In the mean time, you could rent or borrow various types of cameras to see which model is your favorite now. Look for one (I like Sinar) where there are enough accessories and sources to find addtional items and not get into a 'one of a kind' scenario.

Regards,

John Bailey

Ted Harris
18-Jan-2004, 07:26
As I think back to the monorails I used 30 and more years ago the major differences I remember are in weight and convenience. I used a Linhof Kardan Color S then and I use a Horseman now. I am sure if I compared the weight of the two the Horseman would not be much, if any, lighter but the design is such that it folds up nicely (as do the new Linhof L frame models). Beyodn that I would be comparing apples to oranges. I also believe that John is right and that you will not pay a great deal less for the older generation than you will for more current used offerings. After all, beyond the L frame and possibly yaw free movements, what advances have there been?

Leonard Evens
18-Jan-2004, 09:26
It may not meet your needs, but I use a Toho (not Toyo) FC-45X. Badger Graphics is now selling their own version of it (Badger M2) which seems identical to the Toho, for about $850.

I find it a good choice for the kind of photography you want to do, which also constitutes most of what I do. The camera is very light and portable. I have used it with both a 90 mm and 75 mm lens. Movements with 90 mm are moderate and with 75 mm more restricted. Toho makes an eccentric lens board which substitutes for a bag bellows, which I got to use with my 75 mm lens, but one can probably make do without it. You still can do some movements. See the review at www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm. I am not familiar with all the variety of short focal length lenses available, but from the research I did before settling on 75 mm, it is my impression that image circles for such lenses are fairly small, and extensive movements would be useless anyway.

Frank Petronio
18-Jan-2004, 09:50
There is a huge difference between working with a flimsy Shen-Hao versus a classic monorail. And regardless of what people say, I see plenty of beautiful Linhof Kardans and Sinar Normas going for a song on eBay. The Sinar Norma is particularly attractive, as most new parts will work with it, and it is fairly light and compact for a monorail. Most of the older Linhofs still use the current bellows and lensboards too - Marflex can get them back up to snuff.

If you want a super light backpacking camera or a pretty wooden Wista/Canham that's one thing, but nothing beats the security and rigidity of a classic, German-Swiss METAL monorail.

neil poulsen
18-Jan-2004, 09:51
I've seen an older Arca-Swiss B, and it looked like a good camera. I have the newer Classic F version that I found cheap at a swap meet. A caution, make sure the bellows are in good shape. The new bellows will not fit on these cameras. The bag bellows comes up occassionally on EBay. Also, I understand that the newer recessed lensboards will not work on the older camera.

Christopher Condit
18-Jan-2004, 12:09
I think a Sinar F or F2 would be a good choice for your needs. Assuming you don't find it too much of a hassle to haul about (because of bulk, more than weight). And the extensive line of Sinar accessories, new or used, will fit it.

If you want something light and small, good choices include Toho and Gowland. The downside is they can be fussy. My Gowland does everything my 65mm wants. Such superwide lenses vignette or bang against the ground glass before I run out of camera movements.

If you haven't kept up with the LF marketplace, you should know that there are some very nice field cameras nowadays made out of space-age materials, that have good rigidity and extgensive movements. Most notable and popular is the Canham (metal); others include Gandolfi (fancy fibreboard) and Walker (ABS plastic). However they are probably out of your price range...

Jim Galli
19-Jan-2004, 08:05
This is a cake and eat it too question. The Cambo with a bag bellows and 9 inch rail is everything you've described and more with the exception of weight. You can use up to 240mm and leave the bag bellows on most of the time. I even stretched mine to 305mm once with the 9 inch rail and bag by inverting the front standard and stretching the bag to it's limit. Well past the design ideal then. They are tough, flexible, and cheap.

tor kviljo
20-Jan-2004, 02:26
If You manage to get your hands on a Linhof Kardan Bi - you will have a easy portable (instant sliding-off format frames) - very stable monorail with all the movements You can think of. Of same build quality (which is incredible!), same stability but less portable (standards have to be slid of rail or onto 6" rail for easy transport in bag/backpack) the Sinar Norma stands out and is - as Frank points out - integrated in the current & most widespread Sinar system. Do not compare the Norma to the Sinar Wolf/Alpina/A1 or Sinar F/F1: The Norma is much more stable than these, and were only beaten in that department by the twice as heawy Sinar P. Please note that the Wolf/Alpina/A1 breed do use other rail than the Norma and F, C, P line and is thus less adaptable to current system.

Technically comparable but inexpensive & used Cambo, Plaubel & Toyo (also sold as Omega View) & Calumet (old 401 or the newer cambo-models) monorails can also be found. Lower prices than the Sinar & Linhof, but then also not the same stability, portability (ie. messy to remove standards from rail) or build quality (save for possibly the Plaubel) .

Kerry L. Thalmann
21-Jan-2004, 00:21
My favorite of the older monorails is the Arca Swiss. Although the execution is a slightly different, the concept is the same as the current Arca Swiss F Line. The system is totally modular, so the camera can be configured to handle (quite literally) any shooting situation. Depending on the configuration, the weight can range from about 5 lbs. up to about 7 1/2 lbs for a 4x5 model. Certainly light enough for use in the field. The camera is easily adaptable for all formats from 6x9 - 8x10.

The cameras themselves are fairly common (seems like there's usually a couple for sale on eBay at any given moment) and prices are generally quite reasonable. $350 - $500 is the usual range for a 4x5 camera depending on model, condition and included accessories. 8x10 cameras are less common and seem to fetch about $700 - $850. 5x7s are typically in the $600 range give or take. Ironically, the little 6x9 models seem to fetch the highest prices on eBay. Probably because they aren't as common.

As others have mentioned, not all current Arca accessories are compatible with the older cameras (bellows, for example). And, it can be a bit hard to find some accessories. If you are patient, most items eventually come up on eBay (but certianly not as often as Sinar accessories that seem quite plentiful these days).

Another example of an incompatibility is that the current 110mm lensboards do not fit the older 6x9 front standard. They are just a hair too big. Fortunately, they are just a flat metal plate with radiused corners. I'm currently having a batch fabricated at a reasonable cost (less than new Arca lensboards) to meet my needs.

In terms of durability, the older Arca Swiss models use plastic format frames. This is the frame where the bellows and lensboards attach. The uprights that hold these frames are metal, and if you get a model with axis tilts, the moving parts for the tilt mechanism are metal on metal. I don't see these plastic parts as likely to wear out during normal use, but they could break if the camera was dropped on a hard surface (and would be something to watch out for on a used camera). Also, the very old models (from the 1950s) used gray knobs made from a soft plastic that is less durable as the newer, harder black plastic knobs (or the current metal knobs with the rubber grips). The good news is that the knobs on all Arca models from the 1950s through the present seem to be the same size (M5). A variety of knobs in this size are available from numerous sources (I should say knobs that fit and work fine are available, but they won't match the original knobs on your camera).

Although not as refined as the current F Line, the older Arcas offer pretty much the same functionality (if you can find the desired accessories) at a small fraction of the cost.

If you're really concerned about getting accessories (and don't want to be combing eBay searching for bits and pieces), the Arca Swiss Discovery is another possible solution. The Discovery is totally compatible with all the current Arca accessories, but costs less than half as much as the F Line models (and it comes with a carrying case). Plus, it only weighs about 5 lbs. It's a great buy for a new high quality system monorail camera. If you can find a one used, it might cost less than a 40 year old Sinar Norma or Linhof Bi. Midwest Photo Exchange currently has one listed on their web site in "9" condition for $799.

I'm currently working on an article on the history of these cameras, and the more I use them, the more I'm impressed with the thoughtfulness of the original design. I originally bought one of these as the basis for a 4x10 project camera I was building (that will eventually be the subject of another article). I was so impressed with the usability and adaptability of the design that I've since picked up an additional 4x5 camera (a newer model with a Grafloc back and an extension bellows that will allow me to shoot with REALLY long lenses) and I now have a 5x7 on the way with several hard to find accessories (compendium, bag bellows, 4x5 reducing back, etc). It took me a while to accumulate everything, but I now have a very versatile system that lets me shoot 4x5, 5x7 and 4x10 with everything from ultrawide to ultra long lenses. I currently have lenses from 55mm - 600mm that the system can handle with ease - and could go both shorter and longer if I ever get more extreme glass.

Kerry