KEH gives low lowball offer on my Gitzo GT5561SGT

[dh003i]

I called for a quote on my Gitzo GT5561SGT (in excellent condition) from KEH and they offered $250! That was quite surprising to me, seeing as how market value is still worth around $1k, even though Gitzo recently superceded it by the GT5562GTS (which is why I called KEH, as I think that with a good sale of my pod and a Nikkor-SW 90/4.5, I can trade up on the pod without any net cash outflow).

GT5561SGT: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/548442-REG/Gitzo_GT5561SGT_GT_5561SGT_Giant_Systematic_6X.html
GT5562GTS: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/846221-REG/Gitzo_GT5562GTS_GT5562GTS_6x_6_SECTION_SYSTEMATIC.html

The new one supports 88 lbs instead of 55 lbs, but the idea that somehow makes the older one worth $250 -- instead of a discount off of the almost $1200 its going for on PhotoCraft -- is ludicrous.

I wonder if that pricing is because they don't have much tripod business.

[SamReeves]

You could always try Adorama or B&H to see if they will quote you a better price.

[Brian Ellis]

I'm no fan of KEH, I was unhappy with their final offer on some 35mm Zeiss stuff I shipped to them years ago after they gave me a much higher telephone offer (long story, no need to repeat it here). But did their offer cause you some harm or damage? I wouldn't think so since you didn't ship it to them, you just got an offer by phone. And if not then why do you care enough about what they offered to start a thread on it? I don't see that KEH did something wrong by offering what they're willing to pay for it. If you don't like the offer just sell the tripod somewhere else.

Any retailer is going to give you a wholesale price. You should be able to do much better using ebay or somewhere else and get a retail price.

[dh003i]

You could always try Adorama or B&H to see if they will quote you a better price.

Thanks for the suggestion! I didn't realize they made offers on used equipment.

[BrianShaw]

Any retailer is going to give you a wholesale price. You should be able to do much better using ebay or somewhere else and get a retail price.

My thoughts, exactly.

[dh003i]

I'm no fan of KEH, I was unhappy with their final offer on some 35mm Zeiss stuff I shipped to them years ago after they gave me a much higher telephone offer (long story, no need to repeat it here). But did their offer cause you some harm or damage? I wouldn't think so since you didn't ship it to them, you just got an offer by phone. And if not then why do you care enough about what they offered to start a thread on it? I don't see that KEH did something wrong by offering what they're willing to pay for it. If you don't like the offer just sell the tripod somewhere else.

Any retailer is going to give you a wholesale price. You should be able to do much better using ebay or somewhere else and get a retail price.

No, I certainly didn't mean to imply they did me any harm or that I'm really upset about it; it is just kind of a laughable offer, considering exactly what you said: it is still selling on the market for near retail price. Also, KEH doesn't sell stuff at prices much better than eBay or other used retailers (what they offer is quality assurance), so it isn't like that is necessary to make a profit.

I was actually calling KEH hoping to establish a floor price, below which I won't sell it ($250 isn't even close). My best guess as to why they'd offer something like that -- which no one would take -- is because they think they'd have trouble moving it, because tripods aren't typically on KEH. The reason I posted the thread was kind of out of curiosity / entertainment as to why their offer was 1/5 to 1/4th market-value. I'll try B&H and Adorama and see if this is more up their alley, and if so, use that and the last eBay sale price (discounting to account for eBay & Paypal fees) to see if anyone here would like to buy it.

[DrTang]

that somehow makes the older one worth $250 --



no..it makes it worth that to them

they have to resell it as used..with a newer model out

they sell it for what? 450? 500 maybe?

maybe they carry it for 6 months before it sells.


stick it on ebay and see exactly what the market is

[Frank Petronio]

If you get stuck, I'll give you $360 cash for it and I'm local.

[lenser]

They did the same thing to a friend of mine who had shipped them a bunch of Hasse gear. Phone estimate of $1100.00 turned into an offer on just over $100.00. He later sold it privately for nearly $1,700.00 which was a realistic retail for the items he had in the kit.

Bottom line is, they are great to buy from, but not so good to sell to even at a reasonable wholesale price.

Sell your tripods here or on the bay.

[false_Aesthetic]

Hrm.

I really just think of those guys as the reputable version of a pawn shop. $10,000 diamond ring gets you $350. Pawn shop will sell it for $3500.

[dh003i]

no..it makes it worth that to them

they have to resell it as used..with a newer model out

they sell it for what? 450? 500 maybe?

maybe they carry it for 6 months before it sells.

No, the sale price is not going to drop that low. Look at their used lenses and other used equipment. They'll be able to sell it for $1000 or $1100. Look at Photocraft's website -- $1200 new. One sold recently on eBay for essentially retail value and KEH is typically price-comparable to eBay, sometimes under sometimes over (from what I've seen).

Last year, I bought a used Arca Swiss Z2 from B&H for a hundred (maybe 150) or so less than what they were selling the new one for.

The other thing you mentioned does, however, make more sense -- how long it would have to sit on their shelves, if they think they can move it. My thought is that -- other than trying to get the largest possible profit on it -- they think the risk is, "no one thinks to look here for a used tripod like that". I never thought to search KEH for used tripods, so I could understand that.


stick it on ebay and see exactly what the market is[/QUOTE]

[Len Middleton]

One issue that no one seems to have mentioned is the issue of total cost to the seller, as well as KEH's cost.

A tripod, particularly a big one will cost considerable to ship, although in this case not relative purchasing costs. And as a number of members outside the USA understand it gets much worse once you cross a border...

Who pays the cost to return it in a transaction with KEH, if the item is not as-described or the buyer is unhappy with the purchase.

Those factors could strongly impact how long it does sit on the shelf...

Small high value items like lenses where the cost of shipping is relatively small compared to the purchase price, are much less of an issue.

[Gem Singer]

KEH attends the camera shows, in the spring and fall,here in the DFW metroplex to purchase used equipment.

I have sold several pieces of old photo equipment to them at these shows.

It's been my experience that they pay more for a piece of used equipment when they can examine it in person before buying.

The KEH phone estimators cannot actually see what they are purchasing. Therefore, the low ball bids.

[dh003i]

B&H offered the least unreasonable price, around $500. But at that kind of price, I'd just buy the new one and hang onto this until I can sell it at around the going market rate for it used. vs. the alternative of that price, I could get used to having the GT5561SGT as a front standard support for my 1200mm lens and the GT5562 as the main pod (j/k).

I'll see if I have a box big enough to ship it in -- I think I saved the box it came in, I usually save all of my boxes -- get a quote on shipping and then put it up for offer here or on eBay.

[dh003i]

One issue that no one seems to have mentioned is the issue of total cost to the seller, as well as KEH's cost.

A tripod, particularly a big one will cost considerable to ship, although in this case not relative purchasing costs. And as a number of members outside the USA understand it gets much worse once you cross a border...

Who pays the cost to return it in a transaction with KEH, if the item is not as-described or the buyer is unhappy with the purchase.

Those factors could strongly impact how long it does sit on the shelf...

Small high value items like lenses where the cost of shipping is relatively small compared to the purchase price, are much less of an issue.

That is quite interesting and makes sense. I suspect that if you sell to them, the risk is all on you. Namely, they quote you and if it isn't as you described, they adjust their quote (but KEH offered $250 for my description of "excellent condition"; presumably if they got it and it was in awful condition, they could reduce the offer). So I suspect the process would be something like this: (1) They quote you; (2) You pay to ship to them; (3) Upon receiving your item, they revise the quote if warranted (there is actually a huge risk to people selling to them at this step); (4) If you don't like their revised quote, you pay to have it shipped back.

Regarding their return policy for items they sell, the buyers pay return shipping. So it seems like KEH does not bear any risk regarding shipping & handling -- that is all on the buyers and sellers.

http://www.keh.com/help.aspx#pe12

I can certainly understand that doing the whole thing in person is much more preferrable for the reasons noted above.

[Len Middleton]

I had not considered the shipping costs and risk transfer in selling to them.

Just I am very sensitive to total costs when making purchases, and part of that is the cost of getting it across the border for me...

[darr]

Just sell it on this forum or eBay if you are serious about getting rid of it. Expect wholesale offers if you are selling to a reseller.

[sully75]

My friend sold them his Leica M6 for $600 or something. Painful. I would have paid that for it, joyfully.

[evan clarke]

Sounds like nobody here has to sell merchandise for a living. KEH needs to at least DOUBLE their investment and turn it over in a short period of time to make business work..salaries and commissions come from profit...

[drew.saunders]

I've sold to KEH, mainly because of the trade-in deal where they'll knock 10% off the price of anything you buy when you sell to them as well. That's how I turned my Canon FD stuff into a Fuji 250/6.3 LF lens. Now that the m-4/3 and NEX camera adaptors are making FD lenses desirable again, I might have gotten a better price for them now.

I do like that Tamarkin lists exactly what they'll pay you relative to what they'll sell it for (60% for Leica M, 50% for Leica sm or R), and the process of selling: http://www.tamarkin.com/ordering

[Corran]

I work a lot at a music store where we buy and sell instruments. We get at least a couple people in a day wanting to sell instruments.

It's interesting to watch peoples' reaction to what we offer. My boss is more than fair (too fair sometimes) with his offers. But even so we get many, many people who get mad or whatever about what we offer. They seem to think that since they paid $xxx it's worth somewhere around 20% less than that. Which is ridiculous, of course, as we have to 1) repair it oftentimes and then 2) sell it for profit.

Anyway, I'm not saying that you or KEH is in the wrong, but I do think it's silly to complain about it.

[John Flavell]

Give Lensfielders.com a call. Maybe they can do you a better deal.

[Jim Galli]

damn capitalists!

[Eric Rose]

Buy low, sell high. Just good business from their perspective.

[Jim Michael]

I think it was someone from Adorama who responded to a complaint about the used offer price given, saying they bid ca. 80% of what they would sell the item for. I thought KEH's model was more like 50% based on something I read a while back. If it were my money being used to buy for resale I would be taking the turnover time for that class of goods into account since the money would be tied up in inventory until sold. I'd rather be dealing in glass, particularly now with all the folks using old stills glass on their video cameras.

[dh003i]

Give Lensfielders.com a call. Maybe they can do you a better deal.

Thanks for the suggestion; that is certainly an alternative. They do consignment only for 25% commission, meaning you take 75% of the proceeds.

Although I feel pretty confident I could do better here or on the bay.

[dh003i]

Sounds like nobody here has to sell merchandise for a living. KEH needs to at least DOUBLE their investment and turn it over in a short period of time to make business work..salaries and commissions come from profit...

It surprises me that they have as much for sale as they do then, given the existence of eBay. If something can't be sold on eBay, what are the odds it can be sold as used equipment elsewhere? Seems slim to me.

Certainly most photographic equipment can be sold on eBay and I'm sure this tripod could be, although being so high-end, it might be a little illiquid vs. the sub-$300 pods.

I guess I'm trying to figure out the value-proposition here to those with used equipment to the sellers of it, given that we have eBay and even sites like this. I don't need the cash and this is hardly an urgent priority or something that needs to be done ASAP, so the time it would take to sell isn't an issue; but if it was, I'd sooner hold onto the equipment for the time it takes to sell it and take out a loan than sell it at the kinds of rates below market price that are being offered.

I guess these guys are buying from people who need money fast and don't have good enough credit for a loan or who just don't want to be bothered with any of the hassle of selling photographic equipment.

[Frank Petronio]

Probably a lot of it come from dead photographers' estates. What else is an ignorant family going to do with it?

[dh003i]

Probably a lot of it come from dead photographers' estates. What else is an ignorant family going to do with it?

This seems like a pretty good explanation. It is probably good that photographers put and update used-market valuations on their equipment in some document that their family knows about, should they bite the dust...

[Frank Petronio]

Keep it in a folder with your photographer's insurance. If you have a tripod like that, a typical homeowner's policy might balk at covering "professional" equipment.

[Leigh]

One factor that nobody has mentioned is timing.

When a customer goes to a retail/online store to purchase something, it's at a time of his choosing.

When you try to sell a one-off, you're setting the timing, which dramatically reduces your customer pool.

Neither ebay prices nor retail prices constitute valid price points if you're trying to sell something NOW.

Ebay prices are only a valid indicator for common items, not for unusual, scarce, or unique items.
A couple of years ago I saw a $100 radio sell on ebay for over $4,000 due to a bidding war between two idiots.

- Leigh

[Brian Ellis]

KEH attends the camera shows, in the spring and fall,here in the DFW metroplex to purchase used equipment.

I have sold several pieces of old photo equipment to them at these shows.

It's been my experience that they pay more for a piece of used equipment when they can examine it in person before buying.

The KEH phone estimators cannot actually see what they are purchasing. Therefore, the low ball bids.

Unless KEH has changed since I sold to them, there's no difference between selling at a show and selling by mail. Either way they examine the item before committing to a price. Their telephone price is (or was back when I sold) just a conditional offer based on the seller's description of the item's condition. Final price wasn't set until they received the item and examined it. In my case that dropped their telephone offer of something like $300 to $50 despite as accurate a description of the items' condition as I could give (no point in puffing the condition, they're going to see the item before they buy it). When I asked what their problem was with the condition they were vague and said something like "it just isn't what we thought it would be."

This was in 1994, back when Shutterbug was the main vehicle for individuals selling used photo equipment to other individuals. And that was a real PITA way to sell - write the ad, send it in, wait two months for it to appear and probably another couple weeks at best before you had your money. I suspect that sales to places like KEH were much more common back then than they are today just because selling to other individuals was such a long, drawn out process.

All of which is one minor reason why I'd never again sell to KEH or any other retailer (the main reason of course being the wholesale price). Once you ship to them they have you by the short hairs. You don't want to pay to have it shipped back and you don't want to go through the same thing all over again with another buyer. Plus that immediate cash is tempting. All of which probably causes some sellers to accept offers from places like KEH even though they think the price is low.

[Brian Ellis]

Sounds like nobody here has to sell merchandise for a living. KEH needs to at least DOUBLE their investment and turn it over in a short period of time to make business work..salaries and commissions come from profit...

Very true - a retailer who buys used equipment and pays anything close to retail for it won't be in business very long.

[Brian Ellis]

Probably a lot of it come from dead photographers' estates. What else is an ignorant family going to do with it?

That's probably one source. They used to also get a lot of their stuff from newspapers - the paper would replace all its cameras, lenses, etc. at one time and rather than trying to sell each item of the old stuff piece-meal to individuals they'd just ship it all to KEH. Probably still true today with digital gear.

[dh003i]

One factor that nobody has mentioned is timing.

When a customer goes to a retail/online store to purchase something, it's at a time of his choosing.

When you try to sell a one-off, you're setting the timing, which dramatically reduces your customer pool.

Neither ebay prices nor retail prices constitute valid price points if you're trying to sell something NOW.

This is interesting and these kinds of posts -- and several interesting ones above -- are why I started this thread. Regarding timing a 7-day sale window, that certainly seems like it would be an issue in terms of narrowing down your customer pool. However, don't some sellers list items for 30 days? I've seen some items on eBay that go on for a long time? I think they're usually buy-it-nows. The fees for relisting items, especially if you put reserve prices on them, would add up, however.

Of course, For Sale listings here on LF.info have an essentially infinite window, at least for anyone curious enough to ask if the item is still for sale. The problem with selling by forums is in terms of buyer-risk, which limits the buyer pool as well.


Ebay prices are only a valid indicator for common items, not for unusual, scarce, or unique items.
A couple of years ago I saw a $100 radio sell on ebay for over $4,000 due to a bidding war between two idiots.

I bet the winner reneged, at least if they had any common sense*. Sometimes you also see very highly valued things selling way below what you'd expect the price to be, as well, and reneges there wouldn't surprise me either.

* Speaking of not having common sense, I've actually taken some losers satisfaction in some of the auctions I've lost, that I made the winning bidder pay more money than they otherwise would have.

[Leigh]

I bet the winner reneged, at least if they had any common sense.
It's a dollars and sense issue. Far too many people have more dollars than sense.

If the bidder had any sense he wouldn't have gotten into the bidding war in the first place.

- Leigh

[dh003i]

Looking at Amazon's used marketplace, their fee structure may be better for those wanting a large selling window for a high-end rare/unusual item:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/seller/sell-your-stuff.html?pf_rd_m=A2CA1KKALKCX2O&pf_rd_s=top-2&pf_rd_r=1Y5E2PRY9QFSW8YY0APS&pf_rd_p=1344926242&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=soa-how-it-works&ld=AZFSSOAAS
https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/seller/registration/participationAgreement.html?ref=sys_faq_sfee&itemID=200336920

but you'd have to be a professional seller ($40/mo) to create an item not in their catalog.

[toolbox]

This is interesting and these kinds of posts -- and several interesting ones above -- are why I started this thread. Regarding timing a 7-day sale window, that certainly seems like it would be an issue in terms of narrowing down your customer pool. However, don't some sellers list items for 30 days? I've seen some items on eBay that go on for a long time? I think they're usually buy-it-nows. The fees for relisting items, especially if you put reserve prices on them, would add up, however.

Of course, For Sale listings here on LF.info have an essentially infinite window, at least for anyone curious enough to ask if the item is still for sale. The problem with selling by forums is in terms of buyer-risk, which limits the buyer pool as well.

I have a small ebay business dealing in camera gear (mostly old 35mm but a little medium and large format). I pretty much never use listings over 30 days, as it removes the time pressure for a buyer. I see an awful lot of overpriced stuff on 30 day (or longer) listings hoping for that "magic someone" with a big wallet to buy it. I'd rather ask a realistic price and actually sell it :D. There's also the psychological factor that if it's been for sale forever, it must not be any good or worth what's being asked (or someone else would have already bought it). I try to use BIN rather than auction style listings as the fees are a LOT lower, and I pretty much always know the value of what I'm selling. Ebay tries to get people to use auction listings (with free insertion) because they get a lot more from final value fees. If it's something odd/unusual, I just make up a price I'd be happy to live with. A lot of the stuff I get comes from estates it seems like. A lot of it looks like it sat out in the garage for 20 years, and needs repair (or is just really filthy and needs cleaning), which I do myself. I have a pretty decent tool kit at this point, and it's something I enjoy doing. And if I mess something up, oh well--at least it wasn't someone elses gear LOL. The value I give to my buyers is they know exactly what they're getting, have really good pictures of the stuff, and I do a professional job packing and shipping. I take the risk of buying the stuff in unknown condition, and sometimes I have to eat it--but because I take that risk away from my customers I'm able to get upper end of the market when I sell it. KEH has a similar value to a customer, only more so--they're a big outfit that's been around forever, and they have a guarantee. I've only sold a couple of things to them (Olympus OM-2s), but I was happy with what I got. I did the math, and factoring in my time, the fees that ebay and paypal take (about 10% for a BIN auction), I did pretty good. That won't always be the case of course (as the OP found), and that's why I still sell on ebay. As an interesting side note, more than half my customers end up being overseas--a LOT of stuff goes to Indonesia, Thailand, Hong Kong and that area of the world. Last year it seemed like more went to Europe. Global economics or something.

[jose angel]

In my bussiness, it doesn`t matter what you have payed for your item. What matters is my cost price, that could be much lower than the ammount the costumer pay for it.

And I bet they are not willing to pay you more than their cost price (and for a secondhand item), nor a little less... but a noticeable lower ammount. It doesn`t make sense to do it otherwise. Many products are highly charged or overpriced, it could be one of them.
It could also happen that they are not interested in your item (e.g. hard to sell, too much stock) so they offer a ridiculous ammount to "save" that risk.

[Jeff Keller]

Just as a reference point ... I picked up a GT5561SGT with a center column, an Arca Swiss Z1, and a very nice zippered nylon reinforced bag for very close to $1000 on ebay recently. I even had a reason to use it today :-)
Jeff