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FrancisF
9-Mar-2012, 22:08
I wanted to make sure everyone in the LF community know about Dennis Manarchy project in Chicago. A 35 foot camera to take 4 x 6 (foot!!!) negatives to blow up to 2 stories.

His "Vanishing Cultures" trip to bring this camera all around the US is inspired and inspiring.


http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2060332949/vanishing-cultures-by-dennis-manarchy?ref=live

He raising the "seed money" for the project through the Kickstarter program - he has set a goal of raising $50,000 in donations. He only has a few weeks to go. You pledge a donation but if he does not reach his goal, he does not collect the donation and you play nothing.

He really needs our support now. Check out the site and send him something if you can.

Thanks
Francis Fullam
Flossmoor, IL

Marc B.
10-Mar-2012, 01:02
This project might make so much more sense, if only the deadline was not on 'April Fools Day.'
Not questioning...Just saying!

Fourtoes
10-Mar-2012, 02:31
When I read the title of this post, I thought you were looking for a sturdy tripod.....:rolleyes:

vinny
10-Mar-2012, 05:18
I think we've all read the article but I'm wondering how he's planning on enlarging these negs that big?

bob carnie
10-Mar-2012, 06:34
Funny title to the thread, when I first heard of this project I sent a direct email his studio , offering to make contact fibre prints of his negs if he wanted.

To date I have not had a reply ... I guess they need no support or help in that direction, but it is odd not to reply to an offer of help and interest.

Jay DeFehr
10-Mar-2012, 08:00
No offense intended, but I don't find the project inspired, or inspiring. What are the "vanishing cultures" he intends to photograph, and why so large? What is the viewing venue that requires such enormous prints? It all has a very Barnum and Bailey feel, to me. And besides, I have my own inspirations and aspirations that need funding.

ic-racer
10-Mar-2012, 08:25
"Allows us to make prints over 2 stories high..."
As Bob alluded to, I wonder if any prints have been made at any size. The web site only shows digital reconstructions and a projected

In fact, I'd suspect that website borders on false advertising. Look at this photoshop creation in the link. Those images could have been taken with a digital SLR. No evidence that the massive camera or prototype took those images. The presentation is obviously fake. No proof I can see any large negatives have been made or printed. For example the images of
http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx291/chadtepley/Vanishing%20Cultures/girl2.jpg

The image with two people in front of a large print could be 'real' but since everything else on the website is a photoshop creation, why believe just one image?http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx291/chadtepley/Vanishing%20Cultures/Autumn16foot.jpg

If I were to send money, I'd want to know how the negatives are processed, where the film comes from, how much the film is costing them, type of film, how many negatives have been exposed, have any prints been made?

I'm going to also offer a highly biased opinion: that big camera just looks stupid.

FrancisF
10-Mar-2012, 08:28
FYI - I got this private message from a member who stated some of the same reservations that others have noted as a reason not to send a little $ to the project. I just replied to his note but thought I would share it because I think there are many good reasons to be supportive of the project and consider sending Kickstarter a little $ to support things. I have removed identifying information from the message that this forum member sent to me.


Francis,

thanks for posting info on the big camera ...
it looks like an impressive project !

i am a trained xxxxxxx
as well as a documentary photographer ( portraits and other cultural resources )
and i can definitely see the importance in documenting our vanishing culture ...

but i personally won't donate any money towards this project.
i don't think it is fair to ask for a million dollars of donations
to then turn around and charge $50 thousand dollars for a portrait session.

best of luck !

XXXX


Dear XXX,
Thanks for the note. There seems to be a lot of chatter about this project on the forum...some technical...and much dismissive.

I think you are among the few who understand the larger picture here (no pun intended). This project is about getting some public recognition for a diverse groups of peoples around the country. And a celebration of photography.

From what I understand about Mr. Manarchy, he is a successful and well respected commercial photographer. This has been a labor of love of his for years and it sounds like he has been investing his own money for a decade to put together a prototype. This is an audacious project ... to build something this big, truck it around the country, sponsor events at each location to show off the camera, take the pictures to recognize important people (not necessarily well known people). Then film the whole process to make a documentary and then blow the pictures up to an awesome scale. This will take lots of money....so in terms of the "$50,000" figure this may not be out of line. From what I can tell this would only be charged to the vain few would who can both afford and appreciate the project. My understanding is that they would not charge the people who's pictures are taken on the Vanishing Cultures project.

I am so surprised the LF community has not been more supportive.

I urge you to reconsider a donation to Kickstarter. Anything will do, it is not about the amount of money. Five dollars would be appreciated. I think that if he pulls this off Mr. Manarchy might become even better known, but not necessarily richer by it. More importantly, he will will bring attention to LF photography (and attention to those of us who do it), and attention to aspects of our changing country. Above all else (and people seem not to acknowledge this) his work is of great art and fun at the same time. When the truck pulls into a town with this camera, it will be like the circus coming to town.

Thanks
Francis

bob carnie
10-Mar-2012, 08:37
He should respond to emails of support then.

From a very commercial point of view, my company can make monster contact print fiber wet prints off film, if this is a real project we would invest our time and money helping this project get kickstarted so to speak. No response after two months tells me this is not serious and I am not surprised why LF community has not been more supportive.
Can you imagine a direct contact sheet on Ilford Warmtone paper, it comes in 50 inch x 100 ft rolls
Maybe my email got trashed.. but I do not think so as I was directed by the author of the first announcment directly to this photographers email account.

Fred L
10-Mar-2012, 09:25
I couldn't find anything on the Kickstarter page but I presume the negatives will be scanned then output thru inkjet (ie-ad murals).

I have a feeling the size of the camera and resulting print are more marketing than anything else but ymmv. It's all about getting eyes and BIG tends to grab attention.

As well, and this kinda bugs me, the page seems pretty well all about Manarchy and his BIG camera but scant little about the people he wants to document. I want to know WHO he thinks needs to recorded and why ? Where are these people living that they're in danger of receding into oblivion ?

So far, it's all about the camera and less so about the 'vanishing culture'. For this reason, I can't see opening my wallet.

cdholden
10-Mar-2012, 09:42
I am so surprised the LF community has not been more supportive.

With material costs constantly on the rise, I'm guessing most LF users are more concerned about supporting their own camera(s) before someone else's project.



I urge you to reconsider a donation to Kickstarter. Anything will do, it is not about the amount of money. Five dollars would be appreciated.

Why ask for a million when you can ask for five? If it's really not about the money, why bother with Kickstarter? There are better ways to promote if you only want to advertise.

Jay DeFehr
10-Mar-2012, 10:16
[QUOTE=FrancisF;859676 I think that if he pulls this off Mr. Manarchy might become even better known, but not necessarily richer by it. More importantly, he will will bring attention to LF photography (and attention to those of us who do it), and attention to aspects of our changing country. Above all else (and people seem not to acknowledge this) his work is of great art and fun at the same time. When the truck pulls into a town with this camera, it will be like the circus coming to town.

Thanks
Francis[/QUOTE]

A few things: I don't care to make Mr. Manarchy better known. This is not the kind of attention I would have drawn to LF photography. I don't think this is great art, or great fun. I'm with you on the circus thing, but a real circus is more fun, and you know what you're paying for.

Michael Batchelor
10-Mar-2012, 15:04
So far, it's all about the camera and less so about the 'vanishing culture'. For this reason, I can't see opening my wallet.

I wonder if LF film photography could count as a vanishing culture?

Where do I apply for government aid?

jnantz
10-Mar-2012, 15:31
i think it is kind of over the top to ask for a million dollars for a project
and turn around and ask for fifty thousand dollars for each portrait "customer"
but what do i know ...

Dan Fromm
10-Mar-2012, 16:38
The whole thing smells like a badly thought out fantasy and the price is outrageous for what it is, a camera for making portraits at around 4:1 on the negative. The relationship between portraits at 4:1 and "cultures" is obscure.

BTW, there's one cute idea in the renderings. It appears that the device is focused by moving the film holder. Or perhaps the focus is set once and for all by setting the film holder's position, which would make sense if the chair the subject sits in is fixed. Seems like a container cam to me, the huge bellows is decoration or artist's fantasy. Oh, my, there's that word again. But a 40' container, truncated if needs be, isn't fantastic. Oh, my, there I go again, again.

Jim Jones
10-Mar-2012, 17:07
I believe there are many active large format photography forum members who can honor vanishing cultures with more integrity and more competence than Manarchy, and do it with the affordable cameras with which they excel. So did Edward Curtis and William Henry Jackson.

Jim Becia
10-Mar-2012, 17:51
I get the impression from most of the above comments that many have not gone to his website and looked into this project. He goes into the "vanishing cultures" explanation with a bit more detail. Also, this guy is quite an accomplished photographer. He has quite the resume. The idea of using a camera of this size seems to rub many of you the wrong way which seems strange, after all no one says much about those who use a 16x20 camera or 20x24 camera. His "exploits" are going to be filmed by PBS with interviews of those he photographs. I think there is much more to this than what is on the Kickstarter page. One last thing, I'm curious where the $1,000,000 figure comes from, the Kickstarter program is for $50,000 not $1,000,000. I'm not saying it's a project I will "fund," but it certainly seems more worthwhile than most other Kickstarter photography projects. Jim

Jan Normandale
10-Mar-2012, 18:50
My idea of a vanishing culture would be elderly Californians who can't make ends meet. Larry Towell did an essay on this situation which is actually a national pandemic in the USA.

Larry Towell : http://www.magnumphotos.com/Catalogue/Larry-Towell/2010/USA-Jamestown-Ca-Hunger-in-America-(AARP)--NN1106060.html
Larry Towell gets award for his continued commitment to humanity: http://www.arts.on.ca/Page4460.aspx

He did the job and didn't need $1.0M. I think that's the issue at hand here. How can a documentary or an art project justify a budget of this size and remain credible when these people would be better served being the recipients of funds. I think I'd sooner give my money to a food bank. People can eat canned beans or macaroni they can't eat film.

According to CS Magazine's interview (link in the Kickstarter project page) with Dennis Manarchy this project will take significantly more than $1.0M to complete… see Paragraph 2 in the link below : …"The ultimate goal for Vanishing Cultures, a project that would take an estimated $8 million to complete.."

http://www.modernluxury.com/cs/articles/the-big-shot

I don't doubt that Dennis is serious but the Crown Fountain in Chicago's Millennium Park does pretty much the same. And what happens if this entire exercise runs out of money or fails. It is possible.
I'm giving what little I have these days of my discretionary money to registered charities that are helping people at the ground level.

jnantz
10-Mar-2012, 18:55
I get the impression from most of the above comments that many have not gone to his website and looked into this project. He goes into the "vanishing cultures" explanation with a bit more detail. Also, this guy is quite an accomplished photographer. He has quite the resume. The idea of using a camera of this size seems to rub many of you the wrong way which seems strange, after all no one says much about those who use a 16x20 camera or 20x24 camera. His "exploits" are going to be filmed by PBS with interviews of those he photographs. I think there is much more to this than what is on the Kickstarter page. One last thing, I'm curious where the $1,000,000 figure comes from, the Kickstarter program is for $50,000 not $1,000,000. I'm not saying it's a project I will "fund," but it certainly seems more worthwhile than most other Kickstarter photography projects. Jim

hi jim

the numbers came from an interview with him on a news program -
i wish i could find it, it was posted a few weeks ago ...

john

Jan Normandale
10-Mar-2012, 19:17
hi jim

the numbers came from an interview with him on a news program -
i wish i could find it, it was posted a few weeks ago ...

john

Go to the link in my post above... they are suggesting $8 million end figure for his project and it's not been retracted by Mr Manarchy. Just click on the link below from the cut and paste

According to CS Magazine's interview (link in the Kickstarter project page) with Dennis Manarchy this project will take significantly more than $1.0M to complete… see Paragraph 2 in the link below : …"The ultimate goal for Vanishing Cultures, a project that would take an estimated $8 million to complete.."

http://www.modernluxury.com/cs/articles/the-big-shot

Fred L
10-Mar-2012, 19:55
I think another issue or nit is that he's using the term 'culture' when in reality, imo for most of his subjects, it's a lifestyle or way of life or 'a people'. He refers to lifestyle in an interview so I have no idea why he still calls it vanishing culture other than it has more gravitas. Cowboys aren't in my view a culture nor are veterans. As for Appalachia, do we need to look beyond Shelby Lee Adams ?

Fwiw, I think this project can be shot just as easily with ULF (as we on LFPF know it) but it wouldn't need that trailer with the big graphics.

Jim Becia
11-Mar-2012, 10:20
My idea of a vanishing culture would be elderly Californians who can't make ends meet. Larry Towell did an essay on this situation which is actually a national pandemic in the USA.

Larry Towell : http://www.magnumphotos.com/Catalogue/Larry-Towell/2010/USA-Jamestown-Ca-Hunger-in-America-(AARP)--NN1106060.html
Larry Towell gets award for his continued commitment to humanity: http://www.arts.on.ca/Page4460.aspx

He did the job and didn't need $1.0M. I think that's the issue at hand here. How can a documentary or an art project justify a budget of this size and remain credible when these people would be better served being the recipients of funds. I think I'd sooner give my money to a food bank. People can eat canned beans or macaroni they can't eat film.

According to CS Magazine's interview (link in the Kickstarter project page) with Dennis Manarchy this project will take significantly more than $1.0M to complete… see Paragraph 2 in the link below : …"The ultimate goal for Vanishing Cultures, a project that would take an estimated $8 million to complete.."

http://www.modernluxury.com/cs/articles/the-big-shot

I don't doubt that Dennis is serious but the Crown Fountain in Chicago's Millennium Park does pretty much the same. And what happens if this entire exercise runs out of money or fails. It is possible.
I'm giving what little I have these days of my discretionary money to registered charities that are helping people at the ground level.


Jan,

I respect your opinion.

Not to sound trite, but elderly Californians (or for that matter) many elderly throughout the US have trouble making ends meet. I'm guessing this will be increasing not decreasing. Many projects/documentaries take money, some much more that others. People/organizations will support projects they deem worthwhile. It seems that Dennis will probably succeed with this project although maybe the Kickstarter part will not. Could that money be used elsewhere? I guess it could. I support Best Friends in Utah, an organization with a no kill policy toward animals. I suppose my money should go to other "people" charities, but that is one that gets some of mine, so does my college. I hope Dennis succeeds with this. Having read quite a bit about him and the project, it is more than just taking large photos. That is my take on this. Respectfully, Jim.

Jim Becia
11-Mar-2012, 10:31
I think another issue or nit is that he's using the term 'culture' when in reality, imo for most of his subjects, it's a lifestyle or way of life or 'a people'. He refers to lifestyle in an interview so I have no idea why he still calls it vanishing culture other than it has more gravitas. Cowboys aren't in my view a culture nor are veterans. As for Appalachia, do we need to look beyond Shelby Lee Adams ?

Fwiw, I think this project can be shot just as easily with ULF (as we on LFPF know it) but it wouldn't need that trailer with the big graphics.

Fred,

I looked up the definition of cultures. "The total range of activities and ideas of a group of people with shared traditions, which are transmitted and reinforced by members of a group." I think that fits his project. Heck, this forum with its large format users is a vanishing culture. And your right, it could easily have been shot with ULF or just 8x10 or 5x7, or 4x5, or medium format, you can see where I'm going with this. For his reasons, he chose to go huge. I would think the UULF (Ultra Ultra Large Format) crowd:)) would be thrilled. I'd like to know more about the process, problems, what lens, etc. After reading his bio and other info, he certainly seems to have the necessary qualifications for a project of this type. Anyway, I hope he pulls this off. Heck, I'm wondering who go the film order? Jim

Kirk Gittings
11-Mar-2012, 12:06
To me this idea has been done over and over and over again-and does always have some merit as sub-cultures always to some extent are interesting. What does this guy bring to it? A humongous camera. Does that really bring more to an age old idea shot on say 8x10 except cost and complexity? To me its the self inflicted hero/handicap approach. I'm going to do x, as many people in the past have done, but I'm going to handicap myself to the extreme so when I pull it off I will look like a hero because I surmounted these incredible self-inflicted obstacles. Great PR move-weak art idea.

Jim Jones
11-Mar-2012, 12:51
Eugene Atget's record of the vanishing culture of Paris, done with little fanfare and little support, is more impressive. On a larger scale, the FSA of the 1930s brought more attention and aid to the vanishing culture of rural America than I expect from Manarchy.

Kirk Gittings
11-Mar-2012, 13:29
Avedon, A. Sanders, Danny Lyon (my favorite) etc. etc.

Jan Normandale
13-Mar-2012, 14:57
Jan,

I respect your opinion.

Not to sound trite, but elderly Californians (or for that matter) many elderly throughout the US have trouble making ends meet. I'm guessing this will be increasing not decreasing. Many projects/documentaries take money, some much more that others. People/organizations will support projects they deem worthwhile. It seems that Dennis will probably succeed with this project although maybe the Kickstarter part will not. Could that money be used elsewhere? I guess it could. I support Best Friends in Utah, an organization with a no kill policy toward animals. I suppose my money should go to other "people" charities, but that is one that gets some of mine, so does my college. I hope Dennis succeeds with this. Having read quite a bit about him and the project, it is more than just taking large photos. That is my take on this. Respectfully, Jim.

Jim, I have no problem with Manarchy doing this. I think diversity really is important. If not your college would receive less funds and you help save the life of animals. All good to me.

I just think it's possible to achieve a document like this without making photographs so large you have to stand half a football field back from the wall because the subject's iris is 6 feet high. Then there's a genuine issue about 'archiving' this work. Who's going to do that and how much will that cost each year after completion of the entire project. Or is this a disposable project for $8.0M ... maybe more?

A project on "disappearing cultures" could probably be done with a Hasselblad digital back and projectors "Candida Hofer" style and one or two assistants max. I think the unanswered questions are "what is the budget" and "who is this project really for"? To my way of thinking there are ways to deliver the message and with equal or greater impact that are easier than this proposed method. In the end it's about the image, not the camera. I'm a curious bystander. I wish him luck.

FWIW: Edward Curtis for his work and the FSA guys with their 8x10 view cameras are my heros.

Jan

Brian C. Miller
13-Mar-2012, 16:19
I found Charles Guildner (http://www.guildner-photo.com/)'s work very well done when it comes to documenting people. There's only a fraction of his work online, and it doesn't include some of his impressive stuff, which I saw hanging on his wall. Anyways, he did a documentary of one-room school houses in Nebraska, and the next year they were defunded and all the children were bussed to centralized schools.

Now, how is Mr. Manarchy going to compete with that when he is more than a day late and $7,950,000 short?

Mind you, Mr. Manarchy already has a camera built for 6x4-1/2 foot negatives. It's in his studio. There is nothing stopping him from going and starting on the project right now, which he isn't doing.

The only problem I see with the project is that Mr. Manarchy wants this to be, his words, "like the circus coming to town." This is more circus and showmanship than documentary.

C.T. Greene
13-Mar-2012, 23:14
Strange, how differently we each think . . first thoughts were 'what to h*ll was he doing for a lense? Reflecting to old b&w I had seen of [UULF] of early camera the size of a [car] wagon, which looked like a locomotive without a cowcatcher. Hmm, modern technology . . hydraulic auto-focusing via individual pistons setting [plane] tilt & swing? A cross-over rail camera that folds neatly into a self contained vehicle . . drive to shooting location, extending pads, [like a crane=> self contained tripod] . . . use of digital camera for viewing, metering, etc. Hmm. . could be quite a project but completely reasonable fully automated large scale camera, one man operation setting in the relative comfort of the driver seat . . .