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paul owen
8-Dec-2003, 15:12
Hello. I'm looking for any advice/information on an Agfa/Ansco 5x7 camera that I've got on *bay! It hasn't arrived yet but it looks okay from the photos and it has been fitted with a new set of bellow by CameraBellows here in the UK.I don't know any of the history/background to this particular make. I understand it has limited movements available but I'm planning on using it for contact prints with a 110XL (if it can be used with the camera??)ANY help would be greatly appreciated.

Kevin Crisp
8-Dec-2003, 15:35
Paul: I used one of these for some time. There are two downsides, which may or may not bother you, and a lot of things in its favor. They don't fold very thin and they aren't lightweight. On the other hand, they are well made (much better than the Burke & James ones) and work well and are versatile. This was considered high quality equipment in its day, not quite in the Deardorff class but for professionals who'd really use it. Removing the plate on the front will even add front swing with some loss of sturdiness on the front standard. The built in 3rd extension is very nice. Geared front rise is nice -- slide the focus knob to the side to lock it in the track. They don't seem as prone to sag in the middle as with the B&J.) Lensboards are bonehead easy to make. You may find some loose joints which have to be glued, which is easy to do. (Push it apart, get some modern wood glue in there and clamp it. Problem solved.) If painted battleship gray, you have a later one. The earlier ones are a stained wood finish, often with little hanging pendulum-type levels on them on the side. The gray ones are admittedly ugly, and in nice condition the older ones can look pretty nice. Reduction backs seem to often be available used. I can't remember for certain if it can handle a 110 mm lens but I think so. These are underappreciated, in my opinion, which means they are a nice value for someone getting started in LF. In short, it is a nice, usable camera.

Roy
8-Dec-2003, 16:02
So Paul, you bought it did you ! I had my eye on it as it looked a nice camera. I would be interested to learn how you get on as I am about to move on a similar camera privately. I have been looking at half plate but the film is currently difficult to obtain in UK. What process will you use it for ?

Ernest Purdum
8-Dec-2003, 16:13
There is a huge amount of historical background on the make. The AGFA part of the name stands for Aktien Gesellschaft fuer Anilin-Fabrikation, which means something like corporation for the manufacture of aniline products, aniline being a family of dyes. It was a major photographic firm in Germany, producing not only film but many cameras. Ansco stands for Anthony plus Scovill, two American firms whose history goes way back. Scovill got into the photographic business by making the metal plates for daguerrotypes, many of which were used by Anthony. They were great rivals before joining together.



The combined name dates your camera between 1928, when the German and American firms came together, and 1943, when as a result of WWII, the companies were again separate.



Regarding the camera, it was very well regarded in its time. It was sturdy. There were actually several models, one of which was then regarded as having good movements, though as you say, they are rather limited by modern standards.



Regarding its usability with a 110XL, I'll have to let someone with first hand knowledge answer that one or, of course, you yourself answer it when the camera is delivered.

John Kasaian
8-Dec-2003, 20:56
Paul,

I've got one. Its an old cherry or mahogany finish with brass knobs---very classy. 4x5 backs are pretty commonly available too. IMHO they are fine cameras if they have not been abused. Mine provides more movements than I'll ever use for landscape work. I find it quite easy to use and has a great deal of bellows(I don't remember how long, but it easily accomodates my 14" Artar with maybe 12 inches more to spare. FWIW, mine came with a 10.3" Cooke Anastigmat in a No.4 Betax shutter---a real "heavy-duty Judy" of a lens that dosen't tax the old camera one bit. There are lighter cameras, but compared to my 8x10 'dorff its a featherwieght. It(mine anyway) is a triple extension flatbed. For a flatbed camera of the 1920's-40's it was widely regarded as one of the best and I believe can still hold its own if I do my part. Ansel Adams used an 8x10 version that was reputed to be one of his "faves" if that is any assurance. I don't think you'll have any problem with your 110XL...the camera is reversable on it's bed and is usually kept in the "tailboard" configuration anyway.

Enjoy! You're a lucky guy!

-----Cheers!

Brian Ellis
9-Dec-2003, 06:07
I owned one for about six months. I sold it only because I was wrong when I thought I'd be happy with 5x7 contact prints. I'd echo what others have said, it's a excellent camera, well built, solid, things that were supposed to lock down did, adequate movements that operated very smoothly, easy to use, easy to set up and take down, a little on the heavy side but not so heavy it can't be taken on hikes. I don't know what you paid for yours but very nice ones in excellent condition could be bought for around $500 when I bought mine and at that kind of price I think they are one of the great bargains in large format photography.

There were only two things I really didn't care for (other than the gray paint). One someone else has already mentioned. Since it's a "tailboard" rather than a "clam shell" design, it is quite thick when folded and that made it difficult to get in and out of my back pack and a little unwieldy to mount on the tripod. The other wasn't mentioned and since I had the camera only for a short time and it's been several years my memory is a little vague on this one. However, as I recall there was a tiny screw or knob on the front that had to be loosened to do something, maybe front tilt or maybe front rise, sorry I can't be more specific. However, whatever it was and exactly what function it affected, it had a tendency to fall out and it was so small that losing it would have been very easy and probably not so easy to replace. I ended up putting tape over it and then removing the tape when I needed to use whatever function the screw controlled.

There were several versions of this camera. One, the nicer one IMHO, had bright nickel or similar metal knobs, a later version had black plastic knobs. When I was buying mine I couldn't find out much about it. However, I did get some information by doing a Google search. The person who knew the most was Richard Knoppow. He owns several of them and you might ask him for information by e mail.

Brian Ellis
9-Dec-2003, 06:15
I should have mentioned two other things. Wisner makes an adapter board that will allow you to use your Linhof/Ebony lens boards on the camera. It's a little on the pricey side - around $100 as I recall. I bought mine from The F Stops Here. Also, the camera was sold in both natural wood and painted gray. In its day painted cameras apparently were valued more highly than natural wood so the gray painted version was the more expensive. Today, of course, most of us would probably find the natural wood more attractive. I don't remember whether the differences between the two versions were solely the finish or whether the more expensive painted version had other features that were lacking in the natural finish version. You can find all of this stuff out, and more, with a Google search.

John Kasaian
9-Dec-2003, 09:10
Paul,

One more item you might like: when folded, the Agfa/Ansco (mine, anyway) will allow you to carry your lens aboard your camera, as most lens/shutters will fit quite nicely with the camera folded up and along with the attached rail it makes for a simple, if a bit boxy, package to take afield. Also, because of the way the back is inletted to accept the gg, you'll notice that the gg will have substantially clipped corners. This isn't an issue for me, I've gotten used to it, but I could imagine this as annoying to some(at least at first.) ---Cheers!

Kevin Crisp
9-Dec-2003, 10:01
Another plus for it is front axis tilt.

George Hart
9-Dec-2003, 10:10
Paul, just teasing, but it's not an *b*n* camera!!! No seriously, I have also been thinking about 5x7 and I would be keen to see some contact prints once you have got set up and out in the field! All the best.

paul owen
9-Dec-2003, 10:57
Hi George - no not an Ebony!!!!!! But at the moment funds won't stretch to one! Anyhow...if I only used Ebony people would think me some kind of snob!!!! Thanks to all for the info - very useful.

Daniel luu Van Lang
10-Dec-2003, 04:44
Hi Paul, my two cents: I have an Agfa/Ansco 8x10 for two years now, it is a very versatile camera, I suppose the 5x7 is the same built. very well built compared to other cameras of its age.Bulky and sturdy, the weight is not a drawback to me, regarding landscape photo: it's stable in the wind. I have just to point out that the hook that secure the camera when you fold it up is NOT reliable, I secure it with a strap or an elastic, otherwise the bed may unfold accidentaly and brake the bottom of the camera. As the 110XL covers 8x10, it will allow you plenty of movements. hope this could help, regards,

paul owen
14-Dec-2003, 09:57
Well the camera arrived - lovely condition and echoes all the comments made by users here. WOW it is heavy but VERY sturdy too. I'm 99.9% sure that the 110 will work fine but I'm in the process of making a recessed lens panel and a flat panel for the 210. Thanks again!

pepeguitarra
16-Apr-2019, 18:25
Can you shoot the Ansco 5x7 with the ground glass in the portrait mode? The pictures I have seen are in landscape only, but I have not seen anyone commenting on that. I know this is a 16 year-old thread, but I need the answer to my question, anyone? Thanks, Pepe.

Dugan
16-Apr-2019, 18:43
Pepe,
The back is held on by spring clips in the corners...
It takes just a few seconds to take it off and switch from landscape to portrait orientation.
Dugan

pepeguitarra
16-Apr-2019, 19:30
I was thinking on this one:


https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Ax8AAOSwkHlctm5t/s-l1600.jpg

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/-GoAAOSwE0hctm5q/s-l1600.jpg

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/AK4AAOSwcaZctm5x/s-l1600.jpg

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/96kAAOSwPT5ctm51/s-l1600.jpg

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/wcgAAOSw14hctm5f/s-l1600.jpg

Roger Thoms
16-Apr-2019, 20:03
Looks like a sliding back for taking two 3 1/2” x 5” images on a sheet of 5x7 film. You should be able to fit the camera with a regular back that can be oriented in portrait or landscape mode. If you haven’t purchased the camera shown in the photographs you link to, I’d just keep shopping for one with the regular back.

Roger

pepeguitarra
16-Apr-2019, 20:19
Thanks. That is what I wanted to know.

mdarnton
17-Apr-2019, 05:16
That's not a terrible price, and the condition looks good, but the lack of a back is a small problem. You won't be able to get an original back--at least I have never seen one offered alone--but it's not difficult to find and fit a back from another wood 5x7. That will bring the price up towards unreasonable if you don't want the split back!

I have both a 5x7 and and 8x10. The 8x10 is a little floppy in spite of being heavy, but the 5x7 is a great camera, and you don't have to baby it. I carry mine in a large messenger bag with a couple of holders and an extra lens.ave both a 5x7 and and 8x10. The 8x10 is a little floppy in spite of being heavy, but the 5x7 is a great camera, and you don't have to baby it. I carry mine in a large messenger bag with a couple of holders and an extra lens.

Another good choice is a Korona 5x7, but be sure to get on with front tilt (a large knob on top, above the lens) and the extension track. I don't see one there now, but they come up. The Korona isn't as sturdy but it has more bellows and less weight.

pepeguitarra
17-Apr-2019, 06:01
That's not a terrible price, and the condition looks good, but the lack of a back is a small problem. You won't be able to get an original back--at least I have never seen one offered alone--but it's not difficult to find and fit a back from another wood 5x7. That will bring the price up towards unreasonable if you don't want the split back!

I have both a 5x7 and and 8x10. The 8x10 is a little floppy in spite of being heavy, but the 5x7 is a great camera, and you don't have to baby it. I carry mine in a large messenger bag with a couple of holders and an extra lens.ave both a 5x7 and and 8x10. The 8x10 is a little floppy in spite of being heavy, but the 5x7 is a great camera, and you don't have to baby it. I carry mine in a large messenger bag with a couple of holders and an extra lens.

Another good choice is a Korona 5x7, but be sure to get on with front tilt (a large knob on top, above the lens) and the extension track. I don't see one there now, but they come up. The Korona isn't as sturdy but it has more bellows and less weight.

I have a Korona 4x5 and it is not bad. The only problem is the lack of tilt, for me it is very important. Thanks for your help.

John Kasaian
17-Apr-2019, 06:03
FWIW I was able to take a sliding back apart---it's a normal 5x7 back attached to the larger--- and fit it to the camera. It wasn't difficult and, IIRC, the operation would be reversible if need be.
Take the sliding back off and study it, you'll see where the 5x7 back attaches.
All it took was a screw driver or two---this was on a gray Agfa 5x7 ---to dismount it from the part it slides on. You may need some brass "L"s for the outside corners where it clips onto the camera body but I was able to scavenge them from the old back, I think. This was several years ago :o

pepeguitarra
17-Apr-2019, 06:06
FWIW I was able to take a sliding back apart---it's a normal 5x7 back attached to the larger--- and fit it to the camera. It wasn't difficult and, IIRC, the operation would be reversible if need be.
Take the sliding back off and study it, you'll see where the 5x7 back attaches.
All it took was a screw driver or two---this was on a gray Agfa 5x7 ---to dismount it from the part it slides on. You may need some brass "L"s for the outside corners where it clips onto the camera body but I was able to scavenge them from the old back, I think. This was several years ago :o
Thanks. I will study it.

pepeguitarra
17-Apr-2019, 06:10
Too late, someone already bought it. I hope he or she enjoys it. ;). It may have happened because of the publicity I have made of it. Well, when this happens, the Universe has always been nice to me and It will send me a much better deal.

Jim Jones
17-Apr-2019, 07:06
My workhorse LF for decades was a B&J 5x7 flatbed with both 5x7 and 4x5 backs. It may not be as eloquent as some of the competitors, but it does about everything they can, and often at a lower price. Like any flatbed, be sure the sliding mount block (if any) and the extension bed come with it. Lens boards are easily made with basic tools.

Oops, edit: The B&J uses two tripod sockets on the base rather than a sliding mount block. I never had a problem with that set-up, although the sliding mount block that some other cameras offer would be preferable.

mdarnton
17-Apr-2019, 07:18
Yes and the Korona tilt knob, which is on the top, behing the metal brace, can be hard to see in auction pix. But it is a must-have!

pepeguitarra
17-Apr-2019, 12:04
Well, the search is over. I am not buying a 5x7. Front tilt is very important for me and most cameras I have seen don't have it.

Chauncey Walden
17-Apr-2019, 12:24
Front tilt? Why? Are you planning on doing architectural photography?

pepeguitarra
17-Apr-2019, 12:29
I do mostly landscape photography and I use the front tilt to get good focus of the whole thing. I can of get by with the rear tilt, but it is limited in most old cameras. I am not an expert photographer, so, if you have some information on how to go about without tilt, please share. Also, photographing product, I definitely have to have the tilt. If I want to photograph a guitar at an angle, I need the tilt. I sometimes use the tilt with the swing in one product. Of course, I use the Intrepid 4x5 and 8x10 for that. I want the 5x7 to have at list the tilt.

https://live.staticflickr.com/7923/46529088932_52975dbea6.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2dTBK6f)Sheimpflug (https://flic.kr/p/2dTBK6f) by Palenquero Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palenquero/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/4820/31431877567_c84f259a39.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/PTwA8z)The Intrepid 4x5 (https://flic.kr/p/PTwA8z) by Palenquero Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palenquero/), on Flickr


https://live.staticflickr.com/4836/31431878247_c85c96ca75.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/PTwAki)The Intrepid 4x5 (https://flic.kr/p/PTwAki) by Palenquero Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palenquero/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/4915/31431878787_358b786b51.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/PTwAuB)The Intrepid 4x5 (https://flic.kr/p/PTwAuB) by Palenquero Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palenquero/), on Flickr

John Kasaian
17-Apr-2019, 13:50
Many Anscos have front tilt (mine does)
Here's an image I pulled off the web---oops! The 'puter says invalid file.
Try this link https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.auctiva.com%2Fimgdata%2F1%2F0%2F9%2F0%2F1%2F3%2F8%2Fwebimg%2F664029243_tp.jpg&f=1

mdarnton
17-Apr-2019, 16:46
Well, the search is over. I am not buying a 5x7. Front tilt is very important for me and most cameras I have seen don't have it.

The Ansco you linked to earlier has it. I would say 50% of Koronas do, also. Kodaks don't.

Jim Jones
17-Apr-2019, 19:32
My Burke & James 5/7 flatbed has front and back swing and tilt limited only by the bellows and the lens coverage. The back has +/- 3 inches shift and 3 inches rise. The front has +/- 1.5 inches shift and 5" vertical movement. My Burke & James 5x7 Saturn monorail has lots of front and back tilt but more limited front and back swings. It has moderate front and rear shift and no rear rise, but plenty of front rise. B&J may lack the class of more expensive view cameras, but it has plenty of versatility. Some photographers have added class by stripping the grey paint and found decent wood beneath to be finished as desired. However, I can't see how it would improve their photographs.

Roger Thoms
17-Apr-2019, 20:15
I bought this 5x7 Ansco, it has front tilt. https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?147566-FS-Ansco-5X7-late-model They’re out there, and not to expensive if you’re patient, especially if you like grey.

The Burke and James Commercial View also has front tilt and comes in that nice grey that makes it more affordable. My girlfriend has one in 5x7 and loves it. I feel that they are underrated cameras.

Roger

pepeguitarra
17-Apr-2019, 21:31
I bought this 5x7 Ansco, it has front tilt. https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?147566-FS-Ansco-5X7-late-model They’re out there, and not to expensive if you’re patient, especially if you like grey.

The Burke and James Commercial View also has front tilt and comes in that nice grey that makes it more affordable. My girlfriend has one in 5x7 and loves it. I feel that they are underrated cameras.

Roger
One of the problems is the gray color, it is really ugly. Every time that someone applies opaque paint to a natural wood, it is bad taste. They may have done to hide the different types of wood they were using. There is nothing like Mahogany, or even Teak (ask Chamonix) well polished and varnished.

Roger Thoms
18-Apr-2019, 07:12
One of the problems is the gray color, it is really ugly. Every time that someone applies opaque paint to a natural wood, it is bad taste. They may have done to hide the different types of wood they were using. There is nothing like Mahogany, or even Teak (ask Chamonix) well polished and varnished.

Yes, my preference is certainly for clear finish and possibly a lightly colored stain. There is something very beautiful about nicely finished wood. That being said if you can live with the “ugly” grey color there are some nice deals out there. And your right about the the grey paint being used to cover up miss matched wood. I've seen some cameras that were stripped and refinished and look nice and others that didn’t look so good.

For My girlfriends B&J I made some lens boards out of Poplar, which in my eye is ugly, and had my local paint store color match the grey paint. How crazy is that. :)

Roger

Tin Can
18-Apr-2019, 07:13
:) :)

Mark Crabtree
18-Apr-2019, 08:17
It is hard to relate to now, but many people really did turn away from natural wood finishes mid-20th century. Our house is full of solid oak, the previous owner apparently got tired of it. If it was vertical it got painted and if it was horizontal it got carpeted. She was not unique; that wood was a sign of the past, and old stuff. Look at how Kodak "modernized" the Cirkut Cameras under Folmer Graflex with the black ebonized finish over the mahogany that Century had beautifully finished while Cirkuts were under their domain. If you knew people of that generation you'll realize this is not unique at all.

The thing that finally convinced me was some camera trading/talk with a 90 year old friend this winter. He had a Century 8a camera and tall stand that had been at Kodak in their commercial studio. They wanted that old stuff out of there in the early 50's. As soon as he got it home he painted it grey like the modern Ansco stuff. It is clear he has no second thoughts about that. He was just building his own commercial business and you didn't want the clients to think he had a bunch of old junk. He also has a custom made 12x20 that he painted grey, and actually did banquet work with it, w/multi-flashbulb lighting. His contact in NYC for the banquet work complemented him on his modern camera, and complained about the old junk his competitors used.

Me, I hate the grey too. I can't even decide whether I want my friend's old studio stand or not since I don't want to strip that much wood. I have no doubt that the manufacturers cleaned up on this by being able to use cosmetically poor and unmatched wood, but I don't think they were entirely the driving force.