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RF
21-Nov-2003, 16:35
I have two CZ Jena lenses that came with some shutters I bought and was wondering how well these lenses performed, i.e. contrast, sharpness, etc. I have the 135 and 150. Thanks!

Ernest Purdum
21-Nov-2003, 19:59
I assume from "CZ Jena" that the lenses you have are Post WWII East German items. Although the Tesaar basic design is very old, it has been refined over the years and ius still a good performer. The East German manufacturing was well done and their lenses were coated. The limitation is that the image circle is rather small, even on the 150mm size, so on 4" X 5" you couldn't use much tilt, swing, etc. On smaller formats, they shoud be quite satisfactory.



The July/August issue of View Camera magazine has an article covering these lenses. It should be available as a back issue and it also appears on their Tech. Series I CD.

domenico Foschi
22-Nov-2003, 15:52
I currently use a 210 3.5 jena tessar non CZ (?) , and the images i get from this lens are always on the soft side , but i have nothing to complain about sharpness . I like the lens , if the choice is determined by your budget , all you have to do is to print with a grade higher in contrast , if you shoot B/W of course , or if you like the quality the way it is,....even better .

Arne Croell
23-Nov-2003, 05:16
RF,

can you give a little more information, such as the name of the lenses (most probably Tessars with that focal length) and the maximum f/stop engraved, also the serial no.? For instance, for a while Tessars were available in f/3.5, f/4.5 and f/6.3 versions with different characteristics (Btw, I wrote that VC article Ernest was referring to).

Jason Greenberg Motamedi
23-Nov-2003, 09:07
Arne,

Could you kindly describe the differences between these Tessars? I am very interested.

thanks

RF
23-Nov-2003, 10:16
Carl Zeiss Jena Nr 909550 Tessar 1:4,5 f=15cm

Carl Zeiss Jena Nr 1291066 Tessar 1:4,5 f=13,5cm

Thanks for any info you can offer on these.

Dan Fromm
23-Nov-2003, 10:46
By the serial numbers, they aren't post-WWII lenses. 909550 was made around 1929, 1291066 around 1931.

If you want to find out how well they do for you and, most imporantly, if the results they give please you, use them.

Cheers,

Dan

Arne Croell
23-Nov-2003, 19:54
Jason,

the 1st difference between the series is the coverage, the f/6.3 series has 70 degrees, the other 2 series (f/3.5, f/4.5) around 57 degrees. In my experience the f/3.5 shows a little focus shift - this is from my experience with a 250mm one, early 1950's. The point of best focus wide open and stopped down to f/8 or further differ by 2/10-3/10 of a mm. Also the weight and size differences are significant, from 190g to 490g to around 900g going from f/6.3 to f/4.5 to f/3.5 for 210mm.

RLF, Dan is right these are pre-WWII lenses (and thus not covered in the VC article). They are therefore not coated, but since the Tessar has only 6 glass-air surfaces contrast should be ok if a good lens shade is used. It is probably also advisable to check focus at the working aperture with these older ones.

Dan Fromm
24-Nov-2003, 17:52
Armin, Jena probably used that number around 1948. Oberkochen used it in the early '60s.

This news from the Lens Collector's Vade Mecum, which is often in doubt and sometimes wrong.

Cheers,

Dan

RF
24-Nov-2003, 22:53
Does anyone know what the image circle of a 240 APO-Tessar 1:9 is? Thanks!

Arne Croell
25-Nov-2003, 04:05
1948 is about right for yor lens, Armin. When I am back home next week I can check the Jena production numbers to get the exact date.

Apo-Tessars have 43 degrees coverage according to Zeiss Jena. That translates into 378mm at 1:1 or about 189mm at infinity for the image circle. For pictorial use it is probably a little higher.

Arne Croell
25-Nov-2003, 19:47
Armin, the 189mm refered to RLF's question about an Apo-Tessar (f/9, 240mm), not a regular Tessar. The 250mm f/3.5 has a 300mm image circle according to Zeiss.

Arne Croell
30-Nov-2003, 10:35
Armin, as a follow-up to your question, your 250mm f/3.5 Tessar was part of a batch of 200 of these Tessars with the last one made March 11, 1948 (serial nos. 3071501-3071700, according to the Zeiss production files). The lens design dates from 1935.

Armin Seeholzer
15-May-2004, 18:25
Hi Arne

Zeiss Jena must be very conservativ about the image circle of my f 3.5 250mm. Because I just tested it on my 8x10 Sinar setup wich I have since 3 weeks and even full open the corners get not dark at all. After around 4 cm of shift it starts with darkening in the corners but I talking here at f 3.5! So now I know why it is so heavy and large! I'm in love with it!

Arne Croell
16-May-2004, 11:21
Armin, great to hear that it works well on 8x10. Be aware that in my experience there is a bit of focus shift with the 3.5 250mm Tessar when stopped down from wide open. That happens mostly between 3.5 and 5.6.

Raidahl
20-Jun-2011, 07:31
I rudely loan this topic for my own purposes ;)
So I have this Carl Zeiss Jena Nr 1061943 Tessar 1:3.5 F=16.5cm
My question is that does those serial numbers apply also for these F3.5 Tessars?
Mine has this focusing system with feet scale not metric.

I might sound little bit stupid, cause I know that I have asked about this Tessar before, but only photo of this kind of lens is found from here (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v483/cochinco/?action=view&current=2tesar165.jpg), which happens to be the same that is owned by me now days :D

Actually my question is, have anybody seen this kind of a Tessar before? And possibly how rare it is?

IanG
20-Jun-2011, 07:45
Zeiss serial numbers are for all their lenses, so your lens is 1929/30, if it's in a Compur shutter that also has a serial number which can be used to date the lens.

It's quite a common Tessar probably from a press reflex camera with a focal plane shutter.

Ian

Raidahl
20-Jun-2011, 11:00
Zeiss serial numbers are for all their lenses, so your lens is 1929/30, if it's in a Compur shutter that also has a serial number which can be used to date the lens.

It's quite a common Tessar probably from a press reflex camera with a focal plane shutter.

Ian

Okay, Thank you very much.

Arne Croell
20-Jun-2011, 11:27
I rudely loan this topic for my own purposes ;)
So I have this Carl Zeiss Jena Nr 1061943 Tessar 1:3.5 F=16.5cm
My question is that does those serial numbers apply also for these F3.5 Tessars?
Mine has this focusing system with feet scale not metric.

I might sound little bit stupid, cause I know that I have asked about this Tessar before, but only photo of this kind of lens is found from here (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v483/cochinco/?action=view&current=2tesar165.jpg), which happens to be the same that is owned by me now days :D

Actually my question is, have anybody seen this kind of a Tessar before? And possibly how rare it is?

This was made in a batch of 475 lenses for the Miroflex camera, finished on July 16 1929. Altogether 2887 units of this lens (designed in 1926) were made.

IanG
20-Jun-2011, 11:40
This was made in a batch of 475 lenses for the Miroflex camera, finished on July 16 1929. Altogether 2887 units of this lens (designed in 1926) were made.

Arne are you as good on other Tessars (1913) and post WWII CZJ serial numbers ?

You ought to update your articles on this website, your newer ones in PDF format (on your website) are excellent with much more detail. I've enjoyed reading them.

Ian

Arne Croell
20-Jun-2011, 11:55
Arne are you as good on other Tessars (1913) and post WWII CZJ serial numbers ?

You ought to update your articles on this website, your newer ones in PDF format (on your website) are excellent with much more detail. I've enjoyed reading them.

Ian
Ian, I am using Thiele's latest edition on the serial numbers, so I am only as good as the work he did ;-)
I am working on getting something together to replace the old article on this web site, with more photos etc.; if QT is ok with it, I can just give him the five xisting pdf's, but a more unified html version might be better for LF.info. It'll take a bit more time though.

Eric Rose
20-Jun-2011, 13:30
all this yakking, and no pictures! what's with that?

Armin Seeholzer
20-Jun-2011, 13:51
Pics from the lenses or done with the lenses?

Cheers Armin

David Lindquist
20-Jun-2011, 18:00
Ian, I am using Thiele's latest edition on the serial numbers, so I am only as good as the work he did ;-)
I am working on getting something together to replace the old article on this web site, with more photos etc.; if QT is ok with it, I can just give him the five xisting pdf's, but a more unified html version might be better for LF.info. It'll take a bit more time though.

A couple of questions, Arne, to help those of us who have Hartmut Thiele's two volumes "Fabrikationsbuch Photooptik I Carl Zeiss Jena" and "Fabrikationsbuch Photooptik II Carl Zeiss Jena" but don't know German.

From what you've previously posted in this thread, I understand that the dates given in these two volumes under the column headed "Rechng" is the date of the design for the corresponding batch of lenses (defined by the serial numbers in the two columns headed "Nr. von" and "bis"). Is that right?

Translating Thiele's full explanation for this column using Google actually gives results reasonable consistent with this.

And I gather from what you have posted here, the date given in the column headed "Fertigung" in "Photooptik I" and "Fertig." in "Photooptik II" is the date of production of the last lens in the batch defined by the serial numbers in columns "Nr. von" and "bis". Is that correct for both volumes?

And what is the significance of the year "1980" in Thiele's explanation of the column headed "Fertig." in "Photooptik II". (So actually that's three questions).

Google's translations of the explanations for "Fertigung" and "Fertig." are beyond my comprehension.

Thank you very much for your help here. Wish I had taken German to satisfy my foreign language requirement for university rather than French. But that would have been 50 years ago in any case.
David

Arne Croell
20-Jun-2011, 23:23
A couple of questions, Arne, to help those of us who have Hartmut Thiele's two volumes "Fabrikationsbuch Photooptik I Carl Zeiss Jena" and "Fabrikationsbuch Photooptik II Carl Zeiss Jena" but don't know German.

From what you've previously posted in this thread, I understand that the dates given in these two volumes under the column headed "Rechng" is the date of the design for the corresponding batch of lenses (defined by the serial numbers in the two columns headed "Nr. von" and "bis"). Is that right?

Translating Thiele's full explanation for this column using Google actually gives results reasonable consistent with this.

And I gather from what you have posted here, the date given in the column headed "Fertigung" in "Photooptik I" and "Fertig." in "Photooptik II" is the date of production of the last lens in the batch defined by the serial numbers in columns "Nr. von" and "bis". Is that correct for both volumes?

And what is the significance of the year "1980" in Thiele's explanation of the column headed "Fertig." in "Photooptik II". (So actually that's three questions).

Google's translations of the explanations for "Fertigung" and "Fertig." are beyond my comprehension.

Thank you very much for your help here. Wish I had taken German to satisfy my foreign language requirement for university rather than French. But that would have been 50 years ago in any case.
David

Hi David,

yes Rechng. stands for Rechnung (meaning design calculation here).

Fertig./Fertigung means production in Germany and shows the date of the production. Up to 1980 it is apparently the start of production (I was wrong there in my explanation on the 16.5cm Tessar, it started production in July 1929), but after 1980 it is the end of production.

David Lindquist
21-Jun-2011, 08:49
Hi David,

yes Rechng. stands for Rechnung (meaning design calculation here).

Fertig./Fertigung means production in Germany and shows the date of the production. Up to 1980 it is apparently the start of production (I was wrong there in my explanation on the 16.5cm Tessar, it started production in July 1929), but after 1980 it is the end of production.

Thank you very very much Arne!

David

IanG
21-Jun-2011, 10:43
all this yakking, and no pictures! what's with that?

I started to post a reply last night then my laptop just died !!!!

It would be very interesting to post some images from various similar Tessar's of different vintages. By similar I mean relatively close in Focal length, maybe 135mm to 165mm.

For a while I've been intending to test a 150mm G-Claron alongside a 150mm Sironar N, a 135mm Symmar a 150mm f4.5 T coated CZJ Tessar and a late production 150mm f5.6 Xenar, and I could easily add a 165mm f6.3 Tessar and two 135mm Tessar's. I'm just needing the shutter repaired on the G-Claron.

The Tessars are all in Compur shutters & would be:

165mm f6.3, 1913
135mm f4.5 Early 1920's (on a Patent Etui)
135mm f4.5, new type 1931/3
150mm f4.5m T coated - 1952/4 approx

and for good measure as it's the last Tessar type lens from a German manufacturer

150mm f5.6 Xenar S/N approx 2001

I've used three of those lenses quite a bit over the past 5 years so have a very good idea already how they perform compared to more modern lenses.

This image is from the lens I consider the worst performer of the 5:

http://lostlabours.co.uk/portfolios/portfolio_images/notion01_md.jpg
The 1931 135mm Tessar, still quite a capable lens.

This one's with the modern 150mm Xenar

http://lostlabours.co.uk/portfolios/portfolio_images/heraculae02.jpg
This is a 24x20 print :D

I'm not sure how best to test these Tessars yet, any suggestions would be appreciated, particularly to keeping costs down.

Ian