Camera shops must be hurting

[false_Aesthetic]

$39.99 for an enlarger lens.
$40.00 s/h.

No, not 3-day, not 2-day, not overnight not even sonic. From Seattle to Los Angeles.

I get that packing supplies and packing time add up but this shit better be padded with nougat and kinder eggs.

w0rd

[Brian Ellis]

An empty box for a Leica Noctilux lens recently sold on ebay for $2,000 and the shipping charge was $45 - for an empty box.

[false_Aesthetic]

I've heard of paying for box but that's ridiculous!

[Brian C. Miller]

Is that charge really from a camera shop? You do realize that there's some of us who live in the area and it might not be that difficult to do someone a favor?

-- Brian "Will do favor for print, or just to be psychotically nice" Miller

[Drew Wiley]

Heck - ever looked at the fine print on one of those $19.95 TV ads (that flashes past
in about 2 sec). Paying three or four times as much for "shipping and handling" as for
the product itself is routine. I know parts houses that have a $25 min charge on a fifty
cent part. Otherwise, they wouldn't even bother. Sometimes you gotta wonder, however. Like the dude at the burger stand driveup window who was getting six hundred bucks per bag of "french fries".

[jayabbas]

Shipping and handling -- the new cash cow of the internet !!

[Harry Ogloff]

$39.99 for an enlarger lens.
$40.00 s/h.

No, not 3-day, not 2-day, not overnight not even sonic. From Seattle to Los Angeles.

I get that packing supplies and packing time add up but this shit better be padded with nougat and kinder eggs.

w0rd

Let's break it down:

$15.00 for actual shipping
$5.00 for box and supplies
1/2 hour for packing = $12.50
1/4 hour for internal processing = $6.00

You see, I think the cost quickly adds up. I just sent off 4 packages yesterday and it took me the better part of 2hours to package and label. We take this time for granted, but a business must cover this extra costs.

[Frank Petronio]

This was on eBay, not the store's own site? Because they are just circumventing the eBay rules by jacking the handling fee in the shipping and handling calculation.

I just bid on item without realizing the seller had a shipping and handling fee that was at least twice as high as actual postage, for a simple item. It was still a low bid but they "got" me and I probably should have canceled my bid out of spite.

[Mark Barendt]

I agree Frank. I've been bitten the same way, it's not happening again.

When I buy something I want a straight answer on the whole price.

Harry, I spent years in a small business that did mail order. For a customer who called late and needed something fast I could leave the sales desk, get the stuff, box it, lable it and have it ready for UPS or USPS and be back on the sales desk in 5-minutes. The costs of the boxes and materials were nowhere near your estimate, all that stuff was measured in pennies. The cost of writing the invoice was also negligible ad fast. Retail customers actually took more time to deal with.

[evan clarke]

It's called the free enterprise system..nobody is forced to buy...

[Frank Petronio]

It's called the free enterprise system..nobody is forced to buy...

Yeah but sometimes people are sneaky about those charges which isn't good.

[Mark Barendt]

Yeah but sometimes people are sneaky about those charges which isn't good.

Sneaky? I used a stronger term when it happened to me. ;)

[rdenney]

Heck - ever looked at the fine print on one of those $19.95 TV ads (that flashes past
in about 2 sec). Paying three or four times as much for "shipping and handling" as for
the product itself is routine. I know parts houses that have a $25 min charge on a fifty
cent part. Otherwise, they wouldn't even bother. Sometimes you gotta wonder, however. Like the dude at the burger stand driveup window who was getting six hundred bucks per bag of "french fries".

I bought an O-ring kit for my Kodak thermostat valve from the local distributor for Lawler Valve, who made it. They sold the kit for $25 or thereabouts. But the distributor called me back--Lawler had a $200 minimum order which could be waive in favor of a $25 handling fee. That pissed me off for two reasons: 1.)Lawler sent me to a regionally protected supplier who, despite that regional protection, does not routinely order more than $200 at a whack (I was told it might be several months), and 2.) Lawler was extorting money from end users merely because they don't want to mess with them, despite that most of their products (shower valves, for example) sell to end users. But after a short cooling-off period, I realized that if the distributor had told me the rebuild kit was $50 instead of $25, I'd have probably just paid the price without being too pissed. I've paid more for such specialized stuff before, even though the components are themselves quite cheap. I'm paying for someone to put together a kit that includes just the right items.

And it is quite nice to have that ancient Kodak valve able to hold temperature within a quarter degree with nary a drip. Lesson: If the total price is still within reason, just pay it and shut up. (I have a total of $125 into that valve--it's $475 new.)

Rick "who happily paid $20 to ship a Pentax 6x7 TTL prism shutter speed ring from Japan, because the ring was also $20--far less than the usual price" Denney

[BrianShaw]

I just bid on item without realizing the seller had a shipping and handling fee that was at least twice as high as actual postage, for a simple item. It was still a low bid but they "got" me and I probably should have canceled my bid out of spite.

I look a two things before bidding - shipping cost, and location - since that is sometimes even more important than the selling price. Some sellers are "sneaky" (greedy) about shipping, and others are sneaky about their location. Interestingly, no matter how suspicious I am of Chinese sellers I've always had good experiences with them. They really have the postal system working right for them!

[rknewcomb]

You realize right, that Ebay now takes a percentage of your postage charge as part of their "final Value Fee". So if you charge a low shipping charge that is near what it actually costs you to ship, that Ebay will cut into that.
I usually lose money on shipping because I hate to charge folks so much.

[BrianShaw]

I usually lose money on shipping because I hate to charge folks so much.

You are not alone!

[OldCrow]

I think as a whole people should shift away from ebay. They get a percentage of everything from listing (Ebay), selling(ebay), shipping(ebay shipping and USPS deal), payment (paypal sister company).

You are giving away on average to them 18-20 percent of the final sale to ebay and to sellers who work the system. This is why ebay is trying to hide everything from the customer. Try to get in touch with them on the phone. You need a pin number to do so.

[Alan Gales]

You realize right, that Ebay now takes a percentage of your postage charge as part of their "final Value Fee". So if you charge a low shipping charge that is near what it actually costs you to ship, that Ebay will cut into that.
I usually lose money on shipping because I hate to charge folks so much.

OK, I'll try again! :)

Ebay charging an additional price on shipping is plain ridiculous. It's just another way to get into our pockets. Pure greed! No wonder their nickname is Fee Bay.

I purchased an inexpensive postal scale from Office Depot so my shipping costs is usually right on the penny. No one likes to be raped with over priced shipping costs.

[Brian Ellis]

Is that charge really from a camera shop? You do realize that there's some of us who live in the area and it might not be that difficult to do someone a favor?

-- Brian "Will do favor for print, or just to be psychotically nice" Miller

I don't know who the seller was. And I for sure wasn't the buyer.

[Brian Ellis]

. . . I usually lose money on shipping because I hate to charge folks so much.

Me too, especially on international sales which is one reason why I no longer sell anything outside the U.S. A couple years ago I sold 10 or so 4x5 film holders to a guy in France and essentially gave him the holders for free because the actual shipping charge was so much higher than what I had quoted after going on line to figure out the charge. I forget why, it had something to do with the on line cost being based on under 4 lbs and my box was like 4 lbs 2 ounces.

[Brian Ellis]

I think as a whole people should shift away from ebay. They get a percentage of everything from listing (Ebay), selling(ebay), shipping(ebay shipping and USPS deal), payment (paypal sister company).

You are giving away on average to them 18-20 percent of the final sale to ebay and to sellers who work the system. This is why ebay is trying to hide everything from the customer. Try to get in touch with them on the phone. You need a pin number to do so.

I agree. I recently sold a lens for about $700 and after ebay's fee and Pay Pal's fee I netted about $600.

My most recent sale was of some RRS pano gear which I sold through photo.net's classified section after listing it there and also in Fred Miranda. Fred Miranda is a good place to sell but there's a $25 annual fee to use it and it's almost exclusively digital gear, not LF. But photo.net has a section in its classified listings devoted to large format and I've had very good luck over the years using it. And of course the buy-sell here is good for large format.

[BrianShaw]

Yeowww... that's a fairly high "cost of doing business". But how else is one to get that kind of advertizing, etc?

[jp]

I buy lots of used non-photo gear for work. We have contacts we deal with; we often establish an initial relationship through an ebay deal. Subsequent orders are done business-to-business without ebay, etc... I often get better deals than I would have on Ebay because of the lack of extra fees and quantity/repeat business discounts.

Shipping from China costs is largely based on the item size and how important timely delivery is. A lens flange is going to ship cheap and quick. A couple hundred pounds of electronics is not simultaneously quick and cheap to ship; pick one.

In photography hobby personal transactions, I routinely let a craiglist or ebay seller know that I'm open to purchasing more photo equipment if they are in the mood for selling. I had to make a second trip to one seller this past summer when I didn't bring enough money for the extra stuff he was willing to sell for a nice deal. I went there for one thing, and ended up buying like a dozen different items.

[chris_4622]

My worst experience was with some joker who was selling zone system cards for color. I don't remember the cost but there was a $10.00 shipping charge. When I got the item it was in a padded envelope the size of a post card with $1.53 in postage.

I contacted him and he used the excuse that I knew what the shipping charge was upfront. My response was yeah I knew what the charge was but what I didn't know was how much the actual postage would be, something he would know.

He ended up refunding half back. Never should have bought the item in the first place, it was garbage.

This was not a camera shop or ebay purchase.

[akfreak]

POSTAL PROFITEERS SUCK!!!!!!!!! I DESPISE ALL OF THOSE THAT PROFIT FROM POSTAGE. I REFUSE TO BE GOUGED BY SHIPPING!

Also Frank Who was the seller so I can put them on my Blocked sellers list! Maybe if the word gets out to these sellers of Photog gear who profit from postage and their name is on a list, they might consider not being sneak thieves and profit from postage!

[BrianShaw]

[Also Frank Who was the seller ...

Sorry to sound like an old English grammar teacher but shouldn't a comma be inserted to avoid mistaking Frank for the seller who should be blocked. :D

.... but maybe I should take my own suggestion and delete "old" so it doesn't sound like I know anything about Olde English. Ha ha ha.

[akfreak]

Brian I will admit I am not an English major. I do not proof read for publishers, or have a job that has anything to do with writing. I will say, in a forum, when I visit them, I do so on a cell phone or an Ipad. Sometimes while driving! Ewwwwwww

[John Koehrer]

Shift away from ebay to where?
Anyway, I just sold an item for $325.00 off ebay.not through them.
IF ebay had been involved, they would have charged $13.49 as a final value fee.
paypal gets $6.48 so that's ~$21.00 or around 7%. When 18-20% is stated, how is it calculated?

[domaz]

Retail customers actually took more time to deal with.

+1

Anyone who has ever worked in retail knows how much time is wasted by people who come in and just want to "talk it up" but not buy anything. Or they come in completely clueless and want you to explain everything to them, general rudeness (well there's still that on the Internet) etc etc..

[srbphoto]

Ebay is far from perfect but if you think ebay is an expensive way to sell try paying rent, utilities etc, etc to have a store. A few years ago I was a gold seller on ebay, the fees were nothing compared to what my friends with brick and mortars paid to do business.

ebay had to start hitting people for shipping because people would sell a $20 item for 99 cents and charge $20 S&H to avoid listing fees.

I am glad I don't sell through ebay anymore, very glad!

[false_Aesthetic]

Hey,
This wasn't from ebay. It's from the camera store's website. I sent them an email to confirm. Part of the justification was the 75 cent USPS tracking number.

If anyone happens to live in Seattle I'd love to obtain this lens. Send me a PM.

[CP Goerz]

Ebay charges listing fees/sales fees and they now charge a % on the shipping quoted in the description, once the shipping and item have been tallied Paypal takes a cut out of BOTH.

The cost of doing business? Free boxes/packing? Where? The post office does offer 'free' boxes but they are flat rate which already has a built in premium...try ordering 'regular' priority boxes, I've been waiting for 6 months plus at this point for them.

And just where do you 'make' up this cost when a seller has no reserve and a low starting bid? Well what has happened is that sellers will offer a lower shipping charge but will jack up the price of the item. Remember when most stuff in the photo section was on 'auction' ? not anymore. Now its mostly $85 lens caps that hang around for years waiting for a sucke...oops, that special buyer ;-)

[BrianShaw]

...try ordering 'regular' priority boxes, I've been waiting for 6 months plus at this point for them.

The USPS Store really needs to improve their service. I have had "issues" with them more often than not. Long delays fulfilling orders is the most annoying.

[Moopheus]

ebay had to start hitting people for shipping because people would sell a $20 item for 99 cents and charge $20 S&H to avoid listing fees.


Yes, it becomes sort of an arms race for each side to figure out how to game the system against the other side. The net result in any case seems to be higher prices one way or the other for the customer.

[atlcruiser]

I buy a lot of stuff on e bay for my business. I always pick free shipping IF the item price is good enough. I also offer flat rate shipping on all items I sell.

If a company wishes to sell online or mail order they need to streamline their process to keep costs down. Itis not hard nor expensive to do so. I would never buy from that company again.

From a business perspective some of the costs listed would fall under overhead not under the item being shipped. Time to write the invoice is normal "office" time that would not be billed to the item, neither would packing time unless the item was very large or difficult to pack.

[BrianShaw]

From a business perspective ...

Agreed, but only from the "normal" office perspective. There seems to be a whole new breed of both professional and amateur business people who don't operate in the normal way, but more in a "garage/yard/boot sale" manner.

[Peter Latner]

My impression is that a lot of eBay sellers have an inflated sense of what their stuff is worth. Case in point: Someone on eBay is currently listing a used 4x5 Ebony camera for a buy-it-now price (no auction) of $2700. You can buy the camera new from Robert White in England for about $1900 at the current exchange rate. Even more unbelievable is what the seller is charging for shipping: $70. From New Jersey!

Here's the listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ebony-Ti-RSW45-4X5-Large-Formet-Camera-/330680047281?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cfe1116b1

[Brian Ellis]

My impression is that a lot of eBay sellers have an inflated sense of what their stuff is worth. Case in point: Someone on eBay is currently listing a used 4x5 Ebony camera for a buy-it-now price (no auction) of $2700. You can buy the camera new from Robert White in England for about $1900 at the current exchange rate. Even more unbelievable is what the seller is charging for shipping: $70. From New Jersey!

Here's the listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ebony-Ti-RSW45-4X5-Large-Formet-Camera-/330680047281?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cfe1116b1

It isn't a "buy it now," it's in effect an auction. See the "make offer" and "best offer" part? The seller has set a high price, anticipating (correctly) that on a "make offer" sale the offers will always be lower than the initial price.

[atlcruiser]

I sell lots of used auto parts on e bay. The vast majority are less than $100. I use Buy it Now and set the price at just over what i would like to get factoring in fees. Almost NEVER do I get the Buy it Now price. People enjoy making offers and I get to decide how badly I need money right then. My sales went up considerably when I started this.

I do agree that starting at an unreasonable price in the hope of getting a higher than normal price is a bit shady

[rdenney]

There is a plus side to caveat emptor. The possibility that there are deceptive sellers brings with it the possibility of lazy or clueless sellers who underprice stuff. Eliminating the risk of the former removes the opportunity for the latter. One might as well just buy from KEH--doing so minimizes both risk and reward available to buyers willing to equip themselves with the knowledge needed in an open market. Both options are available, so one can choose according to their comfort level.

Rick "too old for a babysitter" Denney