Mentoring younger photographers

[David R Munson]

Earlier today I was thinking about just how much a few individuals have positively influenced me, photographically, from the time I first started doing photography. I really started getting into photography seriously in about 1996 when I was 14. At that time, I had just moved to a different state, didn't know anybody, and was pretty much fumbling around in the dark without much direction to my photographic education. Not long after that, though, I took a landscape photography workshop with Ian Adams and subsequently became friends with him. He was my mentor all through high school, and did so much to encourage my growth that I wonder where I would be without his influence. I think there were times his encouragement was about the only thing outside of my own determination keeping me from just giving up on photography.

There are a handful of photographers here on the LF forum who have also made a decidedly positive impact on my personal and technical growth as a photographer. What's more, this forum in general has been a great resource and source of encouragement since I first came here, which I think must have been about January, 1997.

But the point I'm driving at is that, to someone who is just starting out or is unsure of his place in photography, being mentored or even just encouraged by someone with more experience can make all the difference in the world. A few words of encouragement or a pearl of knowledge here and there, given without expectation to a student, as it were, can easily make the difference in whether someone continues an active pursuit of photography or whether that same person just abandons it altogether. Likewise, one unqualified negative remark is all it takes to bitterly kill off someone's interest for life.

I know I've been helped immensely by individuals who, for whatever reason, decided they wanted to encourage or educate me in some way. Maybe that's why, when I come across a situation where I feel someone is being unfairly discouraged from something like photography in which they've taken a genuine interest, I'm somewhat apt to take their side and defend them doggedly as a matter of principle. But I digress - there's a question coming here, I swear. Given the possible positive effect of mentoring someone, I have to wonder sometimes why one doesn't see more of it. Perhaps it is in decline? But then, was it ever that common?

Really, there's two things here. First, what I'd like to hear from the forum members are any thoughts or personal experiences involving mentoring younger photographers or being mentored by someone older and wiser. Second, I would like to challenge some of you out there to consider, next time the opportunity presents itself, personally helping out someone who's just getting started. You never know the diference you might make.

[james mickelson]

I am mentor to quite a few budding and journeymen photographers at the moment and never hesitate to talk with anyone who wants information. I also mentor printers as well. I feel it is an honor to impart your wisdom should anyone want to learn from you. If there are any here who would like any help via email (or in person but you have to live in So Calif to do so) then let me know. And from my experience on these forums, I think that is the same of most of us. We all like to feel that we share what we have learned freely.

[Jay DeFehr]

Hi David. If you photograph as well as you write, you'll make a fine internet mentor to some of us beginners. I can relate to your roots in photography, and although I've never been able to attend a workshop, I was fortunate enough to deal with some very experienced and very pragmatic gentlemen who operated the local camera store. If you were to ask these guys if they were photographers, they'd laugh and make a sarcastic remark about getting away from photography every chance they got, but if you asked a specific question with the slightest hint of intelligence, you'd get a very straightforward, no nonsense answer, and their collective knowledge of equipment was encyclopedic. Unlike some of the photographers I've met since then, they were non-competitive, and constructive in their critique of my fledgling efforts. I bought a lot of my first equipment from them, and I would have bought a lot more, but they refused to sell me something I didn't need, or something of low quality. They took it upon themselves to guide me through the very steep early learning curve of photography and made sure that I had a solid foundation of knowledge upon which to build. They didn't consider themselves photographers, much less artists, and never attempted to advise me along those lines, but they were always very positive and supportive of my efforts. I've found men of similar character here, and in other forums whose names I won't mention for fear of omission. There are others, of course, who make their work finding fault and self congratulation , and even one well known and highly respected photographer who has done nothing but berate me and diminish my efforts, but having had the respect of men I admire at an early stage in my development makes those buffoons easy to discount. I'm still finding my way in this medium, and my work has yet to match my expectations, but the support and encouragement of those mentors gives me the confidence and patience to keep working at it, and even at my humble level of development, I've found opportunities to pass along some of the knowledge that has been handed down to me. Often I find that in explaining a principle to the unfamiliar, I gain a more intimate understanding myself. There are a lot of facts, figures and concepts rattling around up there, and it helps to organize them in a way that can be communicated to someone who doesn't already know more than I do. Clarity through simplification, as it were. As a part of my education in photography I've occasionally volunteered to assist other photographers, or worked in commercial labs, or taken on projects that promise new insights. My version of adult education, I guess. I assisted a local wedding photographer for a while, in exchange for the use of his studio and lighting equipment, to learn about that kind of work and considered the weddings as my payment. I ended up learning more from the weddings than I ever did in the studio. For one, I learned that I never wanted to shoot weddings. I also learned how a photographer can focus his efforts on one way of working to simplify his equipment and technique in the interest of efficiency. He was a pro in every sense of the word, but the breadth of his photographic knowledge was surprisingly narrow. He was of the "f8 and be there" school, and had no knowledge of darkroom work, chromes or even B&W. Everything was shot on the same clor negative film and when a client asked for a B&W print, he had the lab make one from his color negative. While his way of working was diammetrically opposed to mine, I came to respect his precision and efficiency. He worked automatically and without hesitation through his well practiced routine. The clients got what they wanted, after all, they'd seen his work and chose him on that basis, and he made a decent living. My point is that there is something to be learned from just about every photographer, wether or not we admire their work or techniques, and regardless of their experience.

[Jan Pietrzak]

David,

You pose a very interesting question. Today as in all days I still think of and deal with my mentors. Two photographers are still apart of my life from the70's Steve Crouch, and Al Weber. The fact is that after 30 years Weber still gives me some course correction, but not like the old days. As to this day Al and I still work back and forth I some times wonder who is mentoring you at this point.

As stated mentoring is not easy it has not been easy for me. It takes time and energy lots of it, to work with students. Not every student wants to be mentored even when it is greatly needed. Modern students want the answeres now, right now. They don't want to work out the issues themselfs.

I have taken the back road in my photographic education, but oh has it been a great and wonderful trip. Learning from whoever I could.

I have been teaching students for over 20 years. It is a great reward to see what they have done for themselfs. A number of years ago I tought a class in handcoated processes. At the end of that class 5 students wanted to keep going on with the work. We met on a regular basis for the for the next 2 years. With my darkroom in boxes we quit meeting, three of those students have helped build my new darkroom space and work area. The next job is to start the class/workshop a new. Hopefully after the first of the year. Once a week for 10/12 weeks a session is a small price to pay to help students.

This comming summer I willbe helping Al Weber with some sort of project, 'you take, you give, you give back, you receive.

Jan Pietrzak

[John D Gerndt]

There is nothing like the bond between student and mentor. I am proud anytime I am a part of it, on either side. Yes I take each opportunity that comes along but only a few have yielded long lasting results. That bond is not a done deal. There is something very difficult to define and more difficult to conjure in a teaching relationship that makes for great reward and discovery. We all have had many teachers, only a few have been great connections. Cherish those few and far between and to paraphrase Jan, give as good as you get! It is the best way to honor those who have taught you well.

Cheers,

[James Driscoll]

David, I like you started photographing at a young age. 13 to be exact. At the time, I met a photojournalist named Mike Falco at a junior high school "career day".

He saw my interest and encouraged me to start shooting. He later processed and printed my first roll of film in front of me to "show me the process". I then took a class, and he was always around to critique my work or loan me equipment. Once he even got my Nikon fixed for me for free using his "repair account" at the newspaper he worked for. Saved me $200....thats a lot of scratch for a 13 year old!!!

Now I am 24. In the past few years I have made many inroads into professional photography. I photographed my first book when I was 22, and my second when I was 23. Mike Falco, in the past few years has gone on to work on some very high profile projects, and has been profiled in PDN and the NY Times.

Last year, he was published in National Geographic.

I see a strong bond between the Mentor/Student relationship. Mike is responsible for my career choice, and not only helped me techinically and mentally, he never waved his ego at me.

It was one of the greatest feelings in to world, to sit down with Mike over a Gin and Tonic and talk about "our books".

Sometimes, I wonder if he feels any satisfaction knowing that he started it all for me.

[monochromeFan]

necropost revival is fun, and its worthy as many ancient topics become more relevant over time.

Is the mentoring supposed to be mere encouragemen and a show and tell of how to do things. or is it supposed to be a road work where the mentor eventually hands over all equipment and any possible paying clients to the mentee, as so many hopeful mentee's assume? Or is it a road work to becomeing someones slave in the hope of learning photography?

Ive FOUND the latter to be the more normal result/opinion on various photography forums since i got my first film camera 5 years ago. I went around asking for help, and the behavior of the "mentor" class was unbelievable. Whod think that the person bing mentored should not only be free slave labor for the mentor, when the mentor did a shoot for a paying customer, but also REIMBURSE the mentor for all costs in food, transportation, equipment rentals, travel and food expenses for the model if used, and any expenses if an outside person is used for hair and makeup services?

And then the "tutoring groups" on meetme or meetup, where the two mentors use groups of paying mentees to provide THEM with a paid model for a few hours and slave labor, in the HOPE that the last hour of the mentors shoot, they might be allowed to take a photo of the model if the light is still out

[paulbarden]

Is the mentoring supposed to be a road work where the mentor eventually hands over all equipment and any possible paying clients to the mentee, as so many hopeful mentee's assume? Or is it a road work to becomeing someones slave in the hope of learning photography?

You've got to be joking. If someone is being "mentored" by a successful commercial photography studio and they think their mentor is going to just "hand over the business" once they've learned the requisite skills is deep in fantasy territory. If that's what you think is supposed to happen, all I can say is good luck with that.

[monochromeFan]

You've got to be joking. If someone is being "mentored" by a successful commercial photography studio and they think their mentor is going to just "hand over the business" once they've learned the requisite skills is deep in fantasy territory. If that's what you think is supposed to happen, all I can say is good luck with that.

Ive spent many years boring my few friends at work to death with my hobbies, especially photography. Just certain ones that dont have criminal histories mind you.

There have been several people that i met in person, and many more then i came across in random photography forums 5 years ago, who felt that if a person teaches someone photography, that the teacher is supposed to just hand over all their equipment to the student once the student has become proficient..

Its always funny to see their reactions when I start mentioning how i bought this or that camera for 40$ on ebay, and spent this much on each lens.. minute they realize that they cant use the current canon website to price my equipment they RUN. Even had a few "dark room bunnies" play all super wannabe photographer once they figured out i had a little dark room set up... once they realized my enlarger setup would only get them 120$ on ebay, they lost all interest in photography for some reason.

But its strange from my view point that you were outraged/upset over THAT particular scenario ive run across, but not at all problematic with the mentor using the student for slave labor and reimbursement for THIER costs to do THEIR paid work

[jnantz]

There is a long tradition of protégés doing menial work for mentors before learning important tasks goes back hundreds of years (as seen in the Sorcerer's Apprentice ). how else do you know if that person actually a slacker and waster of time. there's a lot of time wasters out there seems more than the typical 9:10, and the internet makes everything worse by maybe 1000%. people are either really generous or stingy and selfish or anything in-between, and photographers have always been a cagey lot you know it's just pushing a button and all that ...

[Thom Bennett]

I am older now (64) than one of my most important mentors was when he passed away (62) and that fact alone encourages me to help anyone who takes a keen interest in some aspect of photography that I have a working knowledge of. I worked for Nick for about a year and half before he passed but, in that time, he taught me one of the most important lessons that I've carried with me and that I hope to pass along: make the best image (and print) you can possibly make no matter how long it takes or how much effort or how many resources. He was the guy who did not want to be known as the one who made it the fastest but the one who made it the best.

[Jim Noel]

After active teaching for 64 years and continuing to mentor for, up until now, 15 more, all I have to say is I've found every instance with every student to be different, and often challenging. At 95 I continue to mentor via telephone, e-mail and letters and hope to continue to do so for all of my remaining years. It has been a wonderful and rewarding part of my long life.

[Scott Davis]

I currently teach and mentor at a photography center outside Washington DC (I think my teaching may become more limited as I have stepped into a management role at the center). I always provide mentorship even on a situational basis, to any student there who has a question that I can answer. I find it incredibly rewarding. 90% of the time the students are very grateful for the advice and support, but there are always moments when you feel like they expect you to teach them EVERYTHING for free. I've never asked them to provide me with free labor, and I certainly wouldn't expect them to cover MY costs (unless they did something unutterably stupid like open a box of 8x10 sheet film in room light).

[Corran]

A story:

Years ago...I guess 2007 or so, I was cold-called by another professional in the business of audio, which is what I was doing full-time while in college. He had found my website, listened to my work, and was contacting me about taking over a job for him as he felt I could handle it based on the work I presented (he was double-booked due to a reschedule). I lived about 2-3 hours from where he was based. I was talking to him for a little bit, getting details and also he was interested in possibly hiring me on as an assistant full-time as he was getting more work than he could handle, which was exciting as I was graduating the following year. Well, after mentioning this fact he suddenly stopped and said wait...you're in college?? He was assuming based on my knowledge, website, and work that he was talking to a long-time professional with a decade+ of experience. Once he heard this he completely dropped the offer, mentioning that he couldn't just hand this job off to a 22-year-old.

If that wasn't disappointing enough, he contacted me sometime later to discuss becoming his assistant. He offered me the VERY generous opportunity to assist him with all his professional work and help me "break into the market" that I had been working in for about 4 years, and in exchange would pay me nothing and I would also need to relocate to where he lived (in a very expensive city) where he would provide no assistance with basic living expenses or whatever. I curtly explained that I was unable to live in a cardboard box and work for free to support his business! Funnily enough he called me 2-3 times more in the following years begging me to sell some equipment I mentioned I owned that he wanted (some very high-end mics, that I still have...).

Anyway, when I was doing a ton of weddings back in the day, I always had numerous photographers ask to assist. All of them wanted to get paid though, even when they had never shot a wedding or any kind of serious photography work. I did assist for a couple of wedding photographers when I was brand-new and had never done them, which gave me some valuable lessons. None of which were photography (technique) related but all about clients, shot lists, etc. I did eventually find one young man who was very earnest and with a bit of experience, but valued what I could provide as a mentor in that space. I did pay him for several weddings, and he even found jobs on his own that we would split 50/50 if he brought in the client. One summer between what I had and he brought in I think I did 10 weddings while also working a full-time job and still doing audio work.

[jnantz]

I hope you find someone more suitable to your needs who can teach you basic exposure, camera-work and darkroom technique, Good luck with your hobby… and finding a local school/mentor/teacher.

[paulbarden]

It's sad that you're choosing to view all mentors as dishonest, selfish creeps, parasites and users. That's not the world I live in, and I seriously doubt you do either. Why you want to paint the photography community with such broad strokes is a mystery. If you move forward in your pursuits with such a negative mindset, you're going to find nothing but disappointment, so I encourage you to find a different way to see what's in front of you.

[monochromeFan]

It's sad that you're choosing to view all mentors as dishonest, selfish creeps, parasites and users. That's not the world I live in, and I seriously doubt you do either. Why you want to paint the photography community with such broad strokes is a mystery. If you move forward in your pursuits with such a negative mindset, you're going to find nothing but disappointment, so I encourage you to find a different way to see what's in front of you.

I see whats actually there. Sure not all forums are the same, but the forums have such a meandering population that most are on multiple ones.

Sure one problem is that many believe the hype from old movies, tv shows, and retailer industry hype on photography, and the dissapointment of not being the next super star because they bought a 3,000$ lens can really twist them.

[jnantz]

that's the world we have lived in for close to 150 years, a world George Eastman and Alfred Harman helped invent.

[Michael R]

that's the world we have lived in for close to 150 years, a world George Eastman and Alfred Harman helped invent.

Bruh this thread >20 years old. It's over.

[monochromeFan]

It's sad that you're choosing to view all mentors as dishonest, selfish creeps, parasites and users. That's not the world I live in, and I seriously doubt you do either. Why you want to paint the photography community with such broad strokes is a mystery. If you move forward in your pursuits with such a negative mindset, you're going to find nothing but disappointment, so I encourage you to find a different way to see what's in front of you.

Dont be disheartened, but that is somewhat the reaction I got 20 years ago when I joined the local SCA regional unit and asked them why they allowed a 30 year old female member to run around wearing a crotcheless latex bondage bodysuit.

[jnantz]

Bruh this thread >20 years old. It's over.

dude I thought this is a viking-opera .. sometimes they end well, I guess you've seen this one ..

[Alan Klein]

Helping others with anything is rewarding as it is nice to be kind and it also has vanity aspects of it. Mentorship and being appreciated for your skills are rewarding and neither is bad. We are all human. I'm in a 55+ retirement community with a photo club. We share our knowledge, review each other's work and help with encouragement. When you're as old as us, any help is appreciated.

[Oren Grad]

...when I joined the local SCA regional unit...


dude I thought this is a viking-opera

Our flavor of creative anachronism is distinctly 19th-20th century, with arguably a whiff of steampunk.

[monochromeFan]

Helping others with anything is rewarding as it is nice to be kind and it also has vanity aspects of it. Mentorship and being appreciated for your skills are rewarding and neither is bad. We are all human. I'm in a 55+ retirement community with a photo club. We share our knowledge, review each other's work and help with encouragement. When you're as old as us, any help is appreciated.

especially when your sitting down, and the knee locks up, and you have to decide peeing in the chair, or trying to hobble on one leg and hope you dont fall down.

[monochromeFan]

Our flavor of creative anachronism is distinctly 19th-20th century, with arguably a whiff of steampunk.

steam powered shutter could be fun, and a steam powered robot to lug gear around as well.

[Tin Can]

I have given away a lot of gear

I also noticed most of it remains unused

Took 4 years to get the loaner TLR back, she was not using it

[Tin Can]

I also offered my Chicago LARGE DR listed on ILFORD Dayroom Finder

Nobody ever emailed or called

I sold, stuff, gave away a lot

Moved rural, big sign, NO Trespassing

and Flick lost many

AI at work

[jnantz]

I have given away a lot of gear

I also noticed most of it remains unused

Took 4 years to get the loaner TLR back, she was not using it

you're lucky you got it back !

people are people these days, I know someone who was in a coma for a few weeks and when he woke up
it was like the grinch who stole xmas pit-stopped in his house after Cindy Sue WHO's place ..
even his toothbrush was gone.