struggling with wide angle on 617

[David Higgs]

Yes I have searched....

I've used an old SA90mm f8 on 4x5, which has been fine, using a 612 back on the 4x5 and enlarging to 36 inches - revealed stonking central sharpness and very soft edges. Which reflects the lens tests that are on the net.

I picked up a Fuji 90mm f8, multicoated and fantastic at 4x5 and 612. However I'm now using a ShenHao 617, and the last 2cm at the edges are moving very quickly into mush territory. Whilst on some subjects that doesn't matter, on images that rely on sharpness and detail - it's just not cutting it. Relying on my school maths and Pythagoras' theorem I think requires a 180mm IC for 617, both the SA and Fuji are well over that.

One advantage of 617 is that I can use my 150 Symmar S as a WA - it's very sharp right to the edge. How can I get that look in a wider angle? If I'm honest I also struggle with the f8 aspect of the Fuji and SA as I take pictures mostly in predawn light - so am setting up mostly at night, a wider aperture would be great. I've stuck with 90mm as that's really as wide as I could go with my Linhof, but with my Shen I can have access to 75-100 range as a wide angle.

In summary, requirements are wide angle 90mm or wider, cover 617 with movements, wider aperture than f8, and crucially - sharp to the edges.


Options would seem to be Nikon 90 f 4.5, rodenstock grandon 90 f6.8

not as expensive as a symmar 80XL would be nice

and the moon on a stick...

[Lachlan 717]

David,

I found the same thing with my Shen Hao with a 72mm lens.

To cut a long story short, I found that the front and rear standards were not aligned exactly when the standards were zeroed against the body. In fact, you can see it when you look down from above.

I now check focus at the corners as well as the centre, and make swings when necessary.

So, perhaps check alignment when zeroed.

[David Higgs]

I noticed that too, when I first got the camera. I loosened the mounts for the front and rear standards and re-aligned everything.

When using a 150 or 210 everything is nicely in line when zero'd. Would using a 90 make much difference?

[Justin Cormack]

Yes, with a 90mm the alignment needs to be even more accurate. The depth of focus at the film is even smaller. So you probably need to do it again even more accurately...

[David Higgs]

thanks for the advice, I'll break out the micrometers and go shoot some walls

anything that involves spending no money sounds good to me

so consensus is that the Fuji should be ok?

[richard brown]

I used a fujinon 90 f8 lens on an art panoramic 617 metal camera... the edges were mush and the same with an f8 super angulon.... changed to a nikon 90mm f8 and edges
were sharp. The art pan is basically a metal box and alignment is not as much of an issue.. the lenses were. Try a nikon.

[David Higgs]

thanks Richard, good in a way to hear we have similar experiences, I'll still shoot some walls and double check

[dave_whatever]

I've used a fuji 90/8 on 6x17 and although the edges aren't as sharp as center (normak for a WA lens) they weren't that bad. This was always at least at f/22.

[IanG]

I think you've been unlucky with the edge coverage of that particular 90mm f8 SA particularly as Scheiders figures tend to be conservative.

I bought a 90mm f5.6 SA to use instead of my f6.8 Grandagon on my 5x4 camera so that I could use the Grandagon on my 6x17 camera. Both these lenses have excellent sharpness to the edges but have slightly larger image circles than the f8 SA and the Fujinon.

Personally I'm a bit skeptical about some lenses tests because there's some anomolies, Super Angulons performing less well than older Angulons of the same focal lenght for instance but only one SA tested & compared to 7 Angulons.

One problem with older lenses is you don't know if someones lost or forfotten to use the spacer rings when changing lens boards etc, I know my Grandagon has 2, not sre about my 90mm SA, or even swapped cells over from another lens when they are meant to be factory matched.

Ian

[David Higgs]

Lachlan, thank you so much

I spent a good hour with a micrometer, level and got everything nicely zero'd up

I then really really concentrated on focusing on a wall, with windows, drain pipes, writing and other bits of 'interest'

took 2 shots, f22 and f32, my most used apertures and I'm incredibly impressed with the results!

no fall off until the last 3-4mm, very very useable

don't need to spend anymore money :-)

[Bob Salomon]

What Linhof do you have that is limiting you to only 90mm?

[ic-racer]

Lachlan, thank you so much

I spent a good hour with a micrometer, level and got everything nicely zero'd up

I then really really concentrated on focusing on a wall, with windows, drain pipes, writing and other bits of 'interest'

took 2 shots, f22 and f32, my most used apertures and I'm incredibly impressed with the results!

no fall off until the last 3-4mm, very very useable

don't need to spend anymore money :-)


Two methods I use to zero detents.

1) Shine a laser any laser (does not need to be Versalab Parallel, though this method is described in the user's manual) at the ground glass. See where the reflected spot lands. Take the back off and a screw in rear filter and see where the spot lands reflected off of that. Adjust detents of swing and tilt so reflected spot lands in same place.

2) For a double check of the swing detent, aim the camera at an object that you can see and focus with the right-most edge of the ground glass. Focus the image. Mark the focus knob. Pan the camera on the tripod so that same object is now on the Left-most edge of the ground glass. Re-focus. If you focus knob is in a different place then the swing center detent is off.

[Lachlan 717]

Lachlan, thank you so much

I spent a good hour with a micrometer, level and got everything nicely zero'd up

I then really really concentrated on focusing on a wall, with windows, drain pipes, writing and other bits of 'interest'

took 2 shots, f22 and f32, my most used apertures and I'm incredibly impressed with the results!

no fall off until the last 3-4mm, very very useable

don't need to spend anymore money :-)

Great news, David. I hate spending $$ when I don't end up with yet another lens!

I'm trying to work out a some sort of U-shaped piece of plastic/wood that I can place over the bellows between the front and rear standards that allows me to pull the standards into alignment quickly, easily and accurately prior to shooting. Put it over the bellows, loosen off the swing/tilt on the front standard and rack the front standard back. As it hits the U-shape, it should bring it into vertical and horizontal alignment.

[David Higgs]

Bob

Supertechnika IV

use a recessed board with the 90

if I went wider I wouldn't get onto the bed's rails to focus at infinity - and would presumably have to drop the bed out of the way otherwise it would be in the picture? Haven't got anything wide than a 90 to try, and internet 'rumour' suggests you can't so haven't dared splash out money on something i can't use. Rumours can always be wrong, are they?