Drum Scanner - Actual Costs (purchase and annualized)?

[John Rodriguez]

I'm considering picking up a used drum scanner with my tax return this year. Almost certainly a Howtek as Aztek is in the same state I live in. From what I've seen used 4000/4500s go for $1-2k including drums and mounting stations. What I'm looking for are people stories who have gone through this process and what the actual costs were.

- Did you send your scanner to Aztek for check-up when purchasing? Cost?
- How often do you need to send it in for service? I'm guessing this is related to number of scans rather then time. I'll probably only be scanning 2 4x5s a month on average, at least for a few years until my daughter gets older, then usage may go up; although I doubt I'd ever be scanning more then 4-5 a month on average unless I start scanning for others as well.
- What has annual upkeep cost (including repairs, new parts, maintenance etc)?

Thanks for your input

[vinny]

I own two (not azteks), neither of which cost more than the materials needed to start up. With mylar, mounting fluid, drum cleaner, wipes, kami and tessa tape, you're looking at around $250. Those supplies will last you several years at your stated rates. I have a friend who got a howtek for $800 but has spend much more than that having aztek work on it. They aren't cheap but that's really the only option. The scanner I'm using now was $100 on ebay.

[mortensen]

... well, I'm also interested in hearing people's experiences in this field - keep 'em coming.
(I'm among the bunch desiring a second hand drum scanner, too)

[photoSmart42]

Why drum scanner? You can get a decent used professional scanner for about the same price, and the quality won't be much different than a drum scanner but you get a faster workflow. I picked up a used Cezanne for about $1k.

[mortensen]

Well, the first and only drum scans I've had done were stunning and sufficiently more tactile than what a high-end Imacon can do. So, naturally, I want the ability to get out of my negs what is actually in them.

[eric black]

I acquired a second hand scanner several years ago and the only real headache I had was getting the motherboard replaced after about 100 scans due to raster lines showing up in every scan. My costs so far-Howtek HiResolve 8000 scanner purchased in 2006- $4500 original purchase price, $8K for maintenance and motherboard replacement- Other expenses for fluids and mylar are relatively negligible- Im approx 60-80 scan into use since repair- by my calscs I have about broke even based on what I use3d to pay per drum scan prior to owning the unit- anything I get out of it going forward is a bonus.

[Findingmyway4ever]

I acquired a second hand scanner several years ago and the only real headache I had was getting the motherboard replaced after about 100 scans due to raster lines showing up in every scan. My costs so far-Howtek HiResolve 8000 scanner purchased in 2006- $4500 original purchase price, $8K for maintenance and motherboard replacement- Other expenses for fluids and mylar are relatively negligible- Im approx 60-80 scan into use since repair- by my calscs I have about broke even based on what I use3d to pay per drum scan prior to owning the unit- anything I get out of it going forward is a bonus.

I consider this to be an example where one could either go the route you went, or even go with a similar Howtek 4500 as the OP stated. In other words, say the OP spends 1.5K for a 4500, is able to do the number of scans you have done, then the unit poops out on him. The owner could in the meantime, have put another 1.5K into another used 4500 just in case and even put it to use to eliminate some scan time OR even go on the search and simply wait for the next used 4500 to come around, etc. etc. It will be far less expense unless the OP has some kinda default lemon leech sitting on his chest:)).

Two points I'm trying to make is that:

1) Even if the OP went on a more expensive adventure as you have, you will be actually ahead of your expense chart and that unit with it having gone through Aztek should be golden for another 20 years!

2) I know there are incredible scanning operators....but....if you know and/or learn how to operate these machines to do exactly what you want them to do, you can "tailor" the scan so it looks how you want it to look. Sure, the ultimate goal may be to just do a straight scan and the rest in PS, but I'm sure you may want to take advantage of Aztek's exceptional software and have the scans tailored to what you consider to be the best you are going to get from a scan. In other words, NO other operator is going to get that same scan for you unless somehow they magically knew just what you wanted out of it.

Not sure if this makes sense, but I personally love the process of control from making the photo to finalizing the photo onto paper. I don't know what else can be more rewarding. At the same time, if we are all sending the film to the same scanner and that scanner is producing the exact same scan that we would do, then it would be acceptable to me if I was to send out my film vs. doing it myself. But I don't think all scanner operators are identical and we will ALWAYS run into certain shots that we may want to do a little something with during the scan process...a little something more than our typical tailoring even.

Cheers!

[David Rowland]

I have just picked up my 2 screen 1030ai drum scanner. I bought both off ebay the 1st for 99p the second for £90. The 1st one worked for about a year and then wouldn't calibrate its self. the second one is in much better cosmetic condition and a few years younger so hopefully it will give me a few years service and I have the original one for parts.
The problem I have had is prior to getting the second one was finding someone in the UK to fix the 1st one. the independant guys seem to have all moved on and Screen uk didnt seem all that interested.
buy one use it untill it fall apart get another. Oh and hold on to old macs if you can most wont run on Os10 some need 8/7........
Dave

[cosmicexplosion]

buy one use it untill it fall apart get another. Oh and hold on to old macs if you can most wont run on Os10 some need 8/7........
Dave



which is a good, point, if your scan is done on an old program, how are you going to print it?

i know nothing but am also looking at drum scanners.

[David Rowland]

the scanner write a tiff file which has to be opened in photoshop on the computer that it is scanned on. at the moment I have a version of photoshop 6 on my G4 once opened and "saved as" it is then a photoshop derived tiff and can be opened on my G5 and CS5.

This then throws up another issue with adobes upgrade policy. The G4 I use is now a stand alone piece of tecnology frozen in time about 10 years ago.

Maybe the answer to the thread "Building a new drum scanner" should or could be resolved by getting someone to write some new software for all these old machines as they are on the whole made of very high quality components and should last a long time. And seeing as they are now cheap second hand to pay for new software that would allow you to use it on a modern computer would be a boon. Waiting for a 800mhz single processor mac to open a 400mb file is dull to say the least.

Dave

[eric black]

When my scanning is completed on the Howtek/G4 combo, I immediately transfer the scan to my more current Mac for scan review, processing and whatever else I want to do with it. Im scanning up to 8x10 images and wouldnt want to wait for the older computer to even try to deal with a file that size. Transfer and then reading takes about 40 minutes for a GB to transfer, but since I dont do many a day, I can wait for this event. Agree that the G4 tower I have with OS9 is precious and wouldnt want to have to find (or pay for) a current replacement any time soon. I have hoarded some spare parts like another SCSI cable, might consider getting a spare G4 at some point as well.

[federico9001]

I work on drum scanners every day, scanning the negs of wellknown artists and photographers.

They have cheap prices nowadays, but to refurbish, repair and mantain them is very expensive or it requires a lot of skills.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/castorscan

[Noah A]

...the scanner write a tiff file which has to be opened in photoshop on the computer that it is scanned on...

I'm not sure why this would have to be true. I scan on an older OS9 Mac (actually one of the latest models to boot OS9), and I don't even bother with photoshop on that machine. My scans are usually 1.6GB or a tad more before they're cropped, and that would be a nightmare to open on the old machine.

I move the scans over to my newer mac and they open fine in CS3, as long as I put the .tif extension on them, which the Trident software I use doesn't do automatically. It works fine if I type the extension into the save-as dialog box.

Aztek does have newer software, DPL, for the Howtek scanners, but it's not cheap and it's PC-only. If I get some extra cash at some point I may switch over since it seems to have some real advantages.

[David Rowland]

Hi Noah

I'll tryjust adding the .tif suffix an see if that does the trick. thanks Dave

[deatojef]

Hi John,

Some years back I endured several rounds of angst in trying to get a 4x5 slide scanned at a lab here in Denver. After that, I decided that I'd purchase a couple of Howtek 4500's and give a run at scanning slides for myself.

My initial cost was around $3k-$4k, but I ended up with 2 scanners, two drums, and a mounting station. One unit "mostly" worked (it has a case of the "jaggies") and the 2nd was just non-operational. I swapped a pair of the (electronic) boards to get to a single working unit. Its worked perfectly ever since.

I added another $800 for Silverfast software - at the time DPL was still $1500'ish so it was the cheaper route. The Silverfast software necessitated that I purchase one of those $50 firewire-to-scsi adapters, but it meant I could run the scanning software on my powermac and not an antique computer....or windows.

One cost that wasn't obvious to me was the color calibration target. I decided to go all out and get one of the $500 Hutchcolor calibration targets. I use a photoshop plugin from Pictocolor to create the ICC file as Silverfast doesn't know how to read a Hutchcolor target.




- Did you send your scanner to Aztek for check-up when purchasing? Cost?
- How often do you need to send it in for service? I'm guessing this is related to number of scans rather then time. I'll probably only be scanning 2 4x5s a month on average, at least for a few years until my daughter gets older, then usage may go up; although I doubt I'd ever be scanning more then 4-5 a month on average unless I start scanning for others as well.


No. I did not send the unit back to Aztek for servicing, nor have I since purchasing the units. Were I to do it again, I'd just purchase a single unit and have Aztek re-certify it - that would be much easier and I would "know" that it's perfect at that point.



- What has annual upkeep cost (including repairs, new parts, maintenance etc)?


I bought the usual items from Aztek such as new belts, drum pads, new bulbs, lead screw grease, consumables, mylar, tape, and the like. Consumables have been (usually) a once a year purchase for me, which is on the order of a $100. Most of my scans have been 8x10 the past few years, but I've scanned a lot of 4x5's (usually 4 at a time), and oodles of 6x7 and 35mm.

One thing I discovered was the freedom that I had in performing the scanning for myself. I could scan a piece of film as many times as I wanted, with as much or little DPI, and with any custom tweaks I desired. In my experience you end up with a far superior product (aka a TIFF image) by doing it yourself than one could ever hope to get from a pro lab.

You should be aware of the world you'll open up once you get a scanner. You may be planning for only 4-5 scans a month, but if you have any film laying around from years past, you'll probably want to scan it! I've got a a few thousand 35mm slides and once I had the scanner, it was funny to see how I was going back through older film trying to find stuff that I should scan. The 35mm stuff was mostly family pics from before we had a digicam, but I had a lot of 4x5 and 6x7 that I had never scanned. In addition, I've scanned some old slides and negs that my grandmother took of family/places/things from before my time. Point being, you'll be amazed at all the scans you'll be doing of film that you've "decided not to scan" because of costs, convenience, or other reasons - plan for that.

Long story short, I'd do it all over again even if it meant the ROI was never going to work out. It's so empowering to be able to perform the scans for myself that it's been well worth it. I've probably spent somewhere around $6k all together, but it's easily paid for itself as the cost for a drum scan at the local lab was $160/sheet and I bet I've easily run 50-odd sheets of 8x10 through the scanner alone, not counting the 4x5, 6x7 and 35mm.

Hope that helps,
-Jeff

[David Rowland]

Jeff's tale sound similar to mine I bought a Dia Nippon Screen dts 1030AI a while ago for £1 off ebay it worked fine for a while after I had purchased the software and consumables then one of the photomultipliers packed up and I spent a frustrating time "tinkering" with it then a cross patch ignoring it until I found another on ebay that cost me £88 this one works fine is a few years younger and is cosmetically much better condition. As far as servicing is concerned in the uk I'm at a dead end but the drum is directly driven off the motor no belts or chains and the bulb is a standard automotive indicator bulb from a car spares shop which is great. So I have a dead scanner for parts and a working one to use so fingers crossed it should last a while and I've spent half the cost in total of an Epson v750 so all in all I'm happy.
By the way Noah I added .tif to my scans and they opened fine thanks for that you've saved me hours.
Dave

[Nguss]

This is interesting, I have recently won a similar scanner to Dave on ebay and am sort of itching to give it a go. Dave, if you don't mind me asking, where do you get the mounting fluid etc from in the UK? The only place I have come across is Haynes. Is this who you would usually use? Cheers.

[David Rowland]

Hi I did look at the Haynes web site. I got my bits from trioplus they now sell flooring products as there main business but still provide scanning materials, I suppose this just goes to show the fall in demand for these items.


Richard Scrannage
MD
Trio + Distribution Ltd
T 01372 747 555
WWW.TRIOPLUS.CO.UK

Give Richard a ring he will send you a price list.

Thanks dave

[Nguss]

Thanks, that's excellent.

[BeaconAviation]

I have a Howtek Hi Resolve 8000, barley used, for sale. Model 5500. Any ideas on the best avenue to use for selling it?

We are a high tech aerial mapping company and were only able to use the scanner a 1/2 dozen times before we purchased an Epson 9600.

1st time joining the Large Format Photography Forum.

[sanking]

I have a Howtek Hi Resolve 8000, barley used, for sale. Model 5500. Any ideas on the best avenue to use for selling it?

We are a high tech aerial mapping company and were only able to use the scanner a 1/2 dozen times before we purchased an Epson 9600.

1st time joining the Large Format Photography Forum.

One good avenue for selling a drum scanner is the high end scanning forum on Yahoo.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ScanHi-End/info

Sandy