Fast Ross projection lens [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

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cyberjunkie

29-Dec-2011, 19:39

I love fast projection lenses, and when i saw a mysterious Ross projection lens, with 4.5" front diameter, i just couldn't resist :)
The serial should belong to lenses made in the '50, IF the projection lenses followed the same numeration as the others.
The focal length is a total mistery, i found the auction just minutes before the end, and i had no time for any inquiry. On a whim i decided that i wanted that glass... unfortunately somebody else had the same idea, so the price went a little too high for my taste (next time i have to think twice before bidding in pounds!).
Before asking anything on this forum i did a quick search. I found nothing about the lens, but a general reference in the VM about a certain "Projection Triplet e.g. in 8in" made before WWII.
Ebay UK gave me a clue: item 390372777939. It is a Ross projector/magic lantern which has two lenses, the bigger one looks to be the same i have purchased.

Does anybody know something about those projectors?
Did you try the big objective as a taking lens? My guess is that it should be a fast triplet, but i have no idea about FL and speed.
I welcome any information, practical and historical.
From the picture i see that the flange is solidal to the barrel, and that there is no internal stop which limits the speed (as is commonly found in many projection petzvals and some projection triplets). I hope the lens will cover at least 5x7, with some swirls toward the edges... if i am right it's not badly spent money :)

ciao

CJ

Lachlan 717

29-Dec-2011, 20:11

Have you held it up to a white wall in a darkened room and pointed it to an open window?

This will give you a bit of an idea on FL.

johnielvis

29-Dec-2011, 20:16

17inch f4...got one....make a stop for the front....1qt yogurt works with black craft foam and black tape...covers 8x10 and 11x14 up close....shoots sharp wide open but looks softish andflarey---soft effect...probably due to flare due to lots of light.....I didn't experiment too much and shot with lots of "white" in the pic....flare/ softness significantly goes away with the stop in place in front...and much sharper looking (more dof??? less flare????) didn't experiment enough yet....got it mounted on the camera but no time to play yet.....I expect that if I shoot with less light sources that it will produce "glow" on lighter parts without overall flare and look very sharp with glow.....well..that's what I WANT it to do.....have fun its a nice lens I think...very nicely made...that's an f8 stop.....not that it don't look sharp wide open....just don't shoot wide open on the snow or something...all the light in the scene robs contrast of the whole pic....ok with printing I guess but I'm doing transparencies....

johnielvis

29-Dec-2011, 20:18

cyberjunkie

30-Dec-2011, 13:37

there's an ad for the "epediascope" somewhere up theree on the net....shows the projector....ross epediascope it's called....

these are very nice lenses I think. will work well wide open I think if not too much light in scene

Thanks a lot.
The Ebay item number 390372777939 reported on my original post refers to a
"HUGE ROSS OF LONDON VINTAGE PROJECTOR" "TYPE B.E. MODEL 2".
From the page
http://www.curzon.org.uk/content/public/curzoncollection/RossEpidiascope.aspx
it's easy to see that they are the same thing.
Well, the projector sells for 150 pounds on Ebay UK, not bad if one of you out there is local to the vendor (the item is not shipped).

I am grateful that you removed the hint of buyer's remorse i experienced just after the purchase. I had to decide in a couple of minutes, the auction was going to expire... no time for any question. I decided that i was ready to risk a little, and won the item with a very small margin (the price almost tripled in the last two minutes!).
My best guess was that the lens could have been something like the lens you own, but i wasn't sure :)
As we use to say in Italy, i went "by the nose".
I will see if the lens cleans nicely when i have it in my hands. The vendor reports traces of fungus, but the pictures don't show any major problem. Just a small flaw in the internal blackening of the barrel.

The FL you report should be perfect for my 24x30cm studio camera, which is actually limited to 8x10"... until i find the original back somewhere.
The lens doesn't look so heavy, isn't it?
If i am right, it should also fit on my Kodak 2D, which has a 7" Packard double piston, that should provide a sufficient "hole" to allow for the full speed of the lens.
I own a few fast projection triplets of longish FL (B&L, Aldis). Some of those lenses swirl a bit too much on 8x10". From what you report this is not the case with with your lens. I hope so, too much swirl can become tiresome, after the initial enthusiasm.

I love your "front diaphragm" contraption!
I don't think i'll try to stop it down.
If the lens is somewhat soft and a little flarey, i won't complain. I think that's not a big issue if doing portraits it's the main intended use.
Actually i can't afford to buy a long Universal Heliar or Perscheid, that is, i'm not into soft lenses as much as it would be required (i.e. selling some of my beloved lenses and/or cameras). So i guess that for the moment i have to do with the old glasses i can afford, and experiment with them.
BTW, i have seen a few outstanding images done with projection triplets/petzvals

have fun

CJ

Ash

30-Dec-2011, 15:28

AHHH so YOU got it ;)

cyberjunkie

30-Dec-2011, 19:37

AHHH so YOU got it ;)

I am sorry.
Normally i am the one who gets defeated. :)

I guess that the vast majority of bids on certain items are from forum members.
It's pity that very often we are bidding one against the other, but there is no way to know in advance.

i wish you a very lucky new year

cheers

CJ

johnielvis

30-Dec-2011, 22:54

well..the stop helps, if you shoot, don't do it with a white background!!!!

these are GOOD lenses---precisions triplets---just take it apart----there's a hidden screw in the front rim...reel tiny...front unscrews, back unscrews...the lenses get dirty...no chance of fungus...these are triplets...3 separate lenses...NO cement....and very precise....it's heavy allright..but not too bad...you need a packard...

OH..that front stop seems about ideal...dont' bother trying for a center stop...front I tried and it dont' do anything nasty to the images I see...

it's a keeper for sure....the other lens for that projector I have also...that's the 8" or 10" one...it's also a triplet....that I may get rid of.....too small for the big...ok for 4x5 though...I even go that "snoot" part that it's mounted int....

Ihighly recommend buying one of them projectors...lots of NICE hardware...the handles are nice....the mirror mounts....the knurled knobs...etc....they are HEAVY though...so if you buy for the lens...have them ship the lens only and junk the rest...the BASES for these things are insane heavy...all steel BIG piece of glass....

this is a very nice lens I think it can be made intentional soft focus by making shims for the rear lens...shim it back...but it's so nice the way it is!!!!!

johnielvis

30-Dec-2011, 22:57

OH...I just checked the pics I shot a while back...it's not soft...it's SHARP but contrast was lowered by the flare...giving a "soft look"...but still sharper at f8!!!!....very respectable

Ramiro Elena

31-Dec-2011, 02:45

I am sorry.
Normally i am the one who gets defeated. :)

Not true! You got half of the lenses I was following... that nice RR in a wooden box? :P :D

cyberjunkie

31-Dec-2011, 13:47

Ramiro, sorry again. Second time :(
I bidded on a lot of items to get me a couple Christmas present. You know, sometimes a new toy helps in dealing with the inevitable problems of everyday life.
I won none, so i had to increase the amount of money i was willing to shell out... i was already late for the holiday time :)
These days i am usually going for budget items, accessories, and the like, cause my resources have hit an all time low.
Not for Christmas time, though: i wanted my toys! :)
So i won those two lenses plus a very cheap, very old Compound shutter which i hope would nicely fit my barrel Tele-Xenar (that's why i had to forgo your tele).

BTW, that Busch Aplanat didn't go for very cheap. With shipment, it's nearly 200 USD.
I found a 12" Perken, Son & Rayment RR F/6 (not f/8, which should give a gentler signature, wide open), for half that money. It has a working diaphragm, like the Busch, and lacks a flange (which the Busch have, albeit non original).

Did you notice that all the wooden boxes (The Busch, the Apo-Skopar, etc) were identical? From their look, i'd say that they came from East Germany Apo-Tessars, with waterhouse slots.

i wish you a very happy new year, with lots of nice finds

ciao

CJ

Ramiro Elena

31-Dec-2011, 14:51

I wasn't actually going to bid on that Ross, I was just following because it looked very interesting. It'll be nice to see what you do with it.

I recently came to the conclusion that I should have used all the money spent in regular lenses to get what I really wanted and did not, thinking they were too expensive (Vitax, 3B...)

Steven Tribe

31-Dec-2011, 16:16

cyberjunkie

31-Dec-2011, 19:55

Dear CJ, you say:

"The FL you report should be perfect for my 24x30cm studio camera, which is actually limited to 8x10"... until i find the original back somewhere.

I have come to the conclusion that looking for a back that will match any continental studio camera is doomed to fiasco.
...........
Another point is, think of the price of classic lenses that will cover 24x30cm!

I didn't mean "original", as the same back that was originally fitted to the camera (i.e. historically correct).
I would be perfectly OK if i just could find any 24x30 or 10x12" back that could be adapted to the camera.
A friend of mine made an identical copy of the back "base", with two indents instead of one, which allow for rotating the back of 90 degrees. On that base i have fitted an 8x10" back in working order, coming from a "project" Kodak 2D.
In the original design, as you know, it's the film holder that can be adapted for horizontal or vertical pictures.
The camera came with a reduction back (sliding type), with two 10x15cm plate holders (with optional 6x9 reduction sheats inside any of them).
In the meantime i found 13x18 and 18x24 plate holders which are made the same way. I still have to try them, i think i'll check soon.
The 13x18 ones should work without any modification with the original sliding back, for the 18x24 ones i am afraid that a destructive modification would be needed.
I still have to decide which way to go. I don't like the idea of modifying the original reduction back, on the other hand making a new one for larger plate/film holders would be too complicate. I'll see, for the moment i can shoot a small crate of panchro and ortho 10x15 glass plates, or standard 8x10" or 18x24 films with the newly made back.

The holders are part of a stock of studio camera stuff i have purchased. It was some time ago, but i brought home only what was made with brass and glass. :)
All the wooden "things" are still at my mother's house.
As soon as i bring the cartoon home, i will check what's needed and what's not.
If you like, i would be happy to send you a few pictures of the stuff i don't need (IF ANY, believe me or not, i still don't know exactly what was included, i wanted to keep the surprise for one of my next visits).
If you have some interest, send me a PM.

BTW, lenses with good coverage are not a big problem, i have some that would happily cover 24x30 with some room to spare.
My main problem is that a studio camera is made to stay put, at home or in the studio, it's a true pity that it can't be used for outdoor photography :(
If i really want to use the camera for what it was made for (portraits), i have to free a small storage room, and turn it in a small portrait studio.
I guess i have to act quick, i'm almost done with the restoration, and i'd like to put the camera to use... currently my only option is to shoot some tabletop pictures, which aren't exactly my preferred stuff.
Fortunately i kept some tungsten lights, and a Manfrotto backdrop set (you know, the one with the two poles and the plastic chains to roll/unroll the backdrop rolls). I am glad i did, it should be more than enough to turn a free corner in a small portrait studio.

have fun

CJ