Safety of Quick Release plates for LF camera

[MichaelR2011]

I am looking to purchase a new tripod that will accomodate my Shen Hao 4x5 with 150 mm apo sironar N. I was looking for a ball head and was wondering how stable the rapid release plates really are. At times I do carry the camera attached to the tripod over my shoulder for short distances and was concerned that it might slide off. I was wondering if anyone had experience with this and whether I should go for one with a quick release or just stay with the classic screw in type. Thanks,
Michael

[Kevin Crisp]

I've tried a number of them. There is the octagonal-type Monfrotto plate that can give a false "snap" when misaligned. So you have to be careful with that one.

The arca-swiss style, on the other hand, seems very secure and essentially foolproof to me. I use the acratech head and sometimes carry it over my shoulder with camera attached and it works fine.

[MichaelR2011]

Thanks!

[brian mcweeney]

I like the Manfrotto 410. It's a small geared head with a quick release plate. Like anything it works great except for user error.

[Two23]

Another vote for AcraTech head, but be sure to tighten it down.


Kent in SD

[MichaelR2011]

I thank all of you for your input. I think I will go for a quick release plate since everyone seem to do well with them. I was looking at a carbon fiber Manfrotto 055CXPro3 leg set to try to lighten my load and avoid injuring myself!

[Frank Petronio]

Not everyone likes quick releases. Count me as one who prefers a good screw.

[Kirk Gittings]

I've used both the Bogen Hex plates and 410 (RC4) plates for 40 years (35 years of that virtually daily) for 4x5 and never had an issue. I prefer the RC4 plates because they "feel" more secure but having said that I never had an issue with the hex plates.

[Kevin Crisp]

The 410 plate is an improvement on the hex plate. If you have the hex plate lifted up a bit on one side the cam on the base will snap shut with authority, but not really latch the plate. Giving it a good tug before relying on it prevents mishaps.

[Lenny Eiger]

The QBase quick release plate on the NovoFlex Ball Head is stunning. It would handle your 4x5 easily.

Personally, I prefer a screw and a three way head for LF. Makes it easier for me to line things up on those grid lines. That's just me...

Lenny

[BrianShaw]

I wouldn't be without quick-release plates. For my monorail I use the hex Bogen/Manfrotto plates on a 3047 3-way head. Like said earlier they can give a false sense of being locke in place so part of my discipline is always double checking it before taking my hand off of the camera. Other than that they work great.

[Kimberly Anderson]

Bogen 410 here. I have two of them. I have been carrying my 8x10 on the end of one (among other very large MF and 35mm cameras with LONG glass) on them for years. Resting on my shoulder perched out there as precarious looking as you'd ever think. NEVER an issue.

[Kirk Gittings]

Same here Michael. After something like 30 years with the 3047 head I switched to the 410 and never looked back. I really prefer the geared heads now for everything from DSLR to 4x5. I didn't switch because of the plates though, never had a problem with the hex plate but then again I always check to make sure everything is ok before preceeding.

[Tony Karnezis]

Count me as one who prefers a good screw.

Don't we all. :D

I have used an Acratech Ultimate ball head since it first came out and have never had a problem carrying heavy MF or 4x5 gear on it over my shoulder. I was nervous at first and always held the strap until I became convinced of the head's secure grip on the plate/camera.

[r.e.]

The short answer is that you will not be compromsing the security of your particular camera and lens with any of the quick release plates on the market.

The more important question is what you want under the plate - tripod crown, leveling platform, ball head or pan and tilt head.

In my case, I have an Arca-Swiss ball head, a Manfrotto 410 and, as of about six weeks ago, a Ries Double Tilt head, which are all quite different.

My basic preference is to screw the camera directly to the tripod crown/plate, but that isn't always practical.

[amac212]

I'm bookmarking this thread. I've always used the multi-sided manfrotto plates (don't think it's octagonal as mentioned by the 1st poster) and can confirm that there are times it appears to be snapped into place only to take a tumble.

[rdenney]

I'm bookmarking this thread. I've always used the multi-sided manfrotto plates (don't think it's octagonal as mentioned by the 1st poster) and can confirm that there are times it appears to be snapped into place only to take a tumble.

It's hexagonal.

Bogen has made several generations of heads for the hex plates. The first generation used a screw clamp, not a snap-release. I preferred that, but you had to remember to tighten it down. The snap-clamp is automatic--when you seat the plate, the clamp snaps closed. That's the problem--it's possible to put the plate in tilted such that it will release the clamp and snap it shut without the plate actually being under the hooks. And if it snaps shut untimely, it's a pain--you have to balance the camera with one hand while releasing the clamp with the other. It's one of the reasons I eventually gravitated to Arca-Swiss-style plates, though I also used those hex plates for decades.

The plate for the 410 is too small for some cameras. If one wanted to mount a Sinar rail clamp to a 410 plate, for example, it would not cover the edge of the rail clamp and would not provide a secure seated surface. When I was experimenting with the 410, I ended up putting an Arca-Swiss-style clamp plate (RRS or Kirk or Wimberley--I forget which) on the top of the 410 head. That way I could mount an Arca-Swiss plate with a large surface to the rail clamp. That worked but it seemed a kludge. When using the Sinar tilt head, one does not need a quick release--just loosen the rail clamp and pull the rail off of it, leaving the clamp on the tripod.

For all my other cameras, though, I've switched to Arca plates, mostly because of the number of companies that have adopted that standard who provide L-plates and heads for my variety of cameras. Nearly all of my A-S-style heads, though, use (my preferred) screw clamps instead of quick-release levers.

Rick "thinking the quick-release lever was not really an improvement on the Bogen hex-plate design" Denney

[Brian Ellis]

I've used many different Bogen, Arca Swiss and Really Right Stuff heads/clamps/plates on many different tripods and with a variety of camera formats ranging from digital to 8x10. With all of them I've often carried the camera and tripod over my shoulder. No camera has ever never fallen off the tripod because the clamp/plate/head broke or otherwise failed.

However, when using Arca Swiss heads/clamps/plates with small and medium format cameras I've often thought the plate was securely in the clamp, tightened the knob on the clamp, and then realized that one side of the plate wasn't actually in the clamp. Usually I catch it before any harm is done but several times the camera has fallen off the tripod as a result (which is one reason why I switched to Really Right Stuff's ball heads and lever clamp system with my digital cameras, I don't use ball heads with LF).

Like most things photographic, in my experience problems are usually caused by the person using the equipment, not the equipment itself.

[Kevin Crisp]

The lens falling off the camera is a different risk in doing this. But I still do it.

[Frank Petronio]

It's a good habit to develop, regardless of mounting -- wiggle the camera and head before moving the tripod every time.

Remember the entire head can unscrew from the tripod too.

One issue with QR plates is that sometimes they can work loose from the camera and they are hidden. Especially with the nice fancy keyed ones that can be loose yet appear properly seated and firm until it is too late.

The very best QRs use dovetails/connections that are already on the camera itself, like the Arca and Linhof rail bases, the Sinar, the old Hasselblad and Rollei quick releases -- these make sense to me -- the rail-based systems are especially nice, you can balance the camera along the entire rail. Most of the rest of the quick releases just seem like a little high-margin niche in the photo industry since the profit is in the accessories and doo-dads. The whole Arca-compatible micro-industry is funny, some of the cheap knock-offs don't even fit, and even within the original Arca and the high quality RRS plate and receiver collections there are incompatibilities and cautions. The Bogen-Manfrotto quick releases are probably fine but by now they've made so many different configurations... what do you do, buy the plates in bulk while they are still being made?

I like those dumb, simple, obvious, and fat thumbwheels on the Linhof and Gitzo thumbscrews. One quick simple tactile check and you know they're still tight. One less layer of attachment, vibration, and expense.... But to each their own, go spend $100 on a single RRS Arca plate and keep Santa Barbara's economy going....

[Preston]

I've used the Arca plates, and the Bogen hex plate too, for a long time and never had one fail.

Like Brian, I once had the issue of one side of an Arca plate not seated on one side of the clamp. I caught it before my camera made a uncontrolled flight into terrain.

Another time, I was using a Bogen hex plate, and forgot to tighten the clamp properly. The camera was loose, but didn't fall out.

As Frank said, it's a good idea to wiggle the camera to make sure all is secure, and to check that the clamp and the plate are securely mounted to tripod and camera, respectively.

--P

[Ivan J. Eberle]

Quick releases are essential for fast setup but this may be secondary factor in LF with anything other than a metal folder with a rangefinder. But I do tend to use the exact same tripod and head for all my stuff up to 4x5 so I use QR plates on my 4x5's. There's another valid reason to consider some kind of QR plate system rather than just use a standard tripod head with a screw, fastening it by threading it each and every time you set up the camera. A perusal of eBay listings shows numerous base plates of KMVs and Deardorffs and otherwise desirable classic cameras made ugly by ubiquitous gouges and scratches-- doubtless resulting from the frustratingly blind search for getting the 1/4"-20 seated in the base of the camera each and every time you set up. The big ugly circles come from rotating the camera and or tripod around on the base to tighten it (or when it invariably loosens in carrying it). A well designed and mounted Q/R plate can solve this, making it a simple and painless matter to set the camera up on the tripod.

I've used both Manfrotto/Bogen hex plates and Arca Swiss. The hex plates are cheap and this was the initial attraction, but their large profile and pointy corners can be an annoyance. They can be rounded with a file to no ill effect. The Bogen system's usefulness for smaller formats that may sometimes be used handheld is offset by there being nothing that fits the palm comfortably. For larger formate cameras this won't be as much of an issue, and they did make some monster plates for LF. The Manfrotto/Bogen Hex Plate system eventually evolved into something pretty good (from after the late 80's, I especially like the safety catch as found on the Super HD Ballhead 268 I used for 15 years). But the earlier versions of it were sketchy and the plates are a slightly smaller size that has play when used in the newer heads. Early on, I had vibration problems with a motordriven camera and long lens which ceased when I substituted cork faced plates for rubber-bushed ones. Too, a friend who uses long expensive Canon glass once had a Manfrotto cast aluminum plate that cracked in two. Personally, I dropped a 300mm f/2.8 once due to the plate not being seated properly (on a head without the safety catch). But other than these, I did use the system for nearly 20 years before making the spendy switch to Arca style dovetailed plates..

Not that they're immune from potential trouble. Another buddy dropped a brand-new 300mm f/2.8 Canon that slipped out of it's Arca Swiss Ballhead moorings, an early BH1 without safety stops, as I recall. So safety catches and pins became the watchword for me.
The Novoflex Q-base thingy is what I use up to 4x5 now, it's snap-in function is the bee's knees, as Lenny earlier mentioned. (The base was also nearly two hundred bucks itself, and I will mention for that price like it even better with better, harder anodizing.).

[rdenney]

One advantage to a system that uses plates (instead of just screwing it into the camera) is that the plates can be attached tightly, and often with alignment pins or more than one screw. Reading Ivan's response, the hex plates are lousy rotten for the collars on long small-format telephoto lenses. Current lenses have feet on those tripod rings that allow two screws, and the Arca plates do two screws far better than the hex plates. The hex plates often have additional screws that will bear on the camera surface to provide anti-twist resistance, but often at the expense of the finish on the camera.

I used hex plates on my Cambo view camera. I had one with a brass 3/8" screw with a flush slotted head. I honked down on that screw with a big-ass screwdriver, and never had a problem with it twisting. And with that flush screw it was less obtrusive. I put those on the bottom of my wedding kit (a Mamiya C33 with a Stroboframe) so I could pop the whole thing on a tripod easily, and still set it down with enough of a flat surface on the bottom so that it would stand where I put it.

But for my Pentax medium-format cameras, those hex plates with 1/4" threads could not be tightened sufficiently without risking damage. Changing to dedicated Arca-style plates with alignment pins was a god-send. And when I bought gimbal heads for using those long small-format telephotos, the beauty of the Arca system really started to shine. Those Indian knock-off gimbal heads work well with ginormous lenses such as the vintage Pentax Takumar 500/4.5, which looks like a bazooka with a camera-shaped pimple on the hind quarters. On a monopod, it requires Ahnold to be able to use it for more than five minutes. On a gimbal head, it's actually usable, even with the controls loose to allow free aiming and panning.

When I switched to Arca plates, I went pretty much all the way, and bought an old Monoball head, a couple of those cheapie gimbal heads (one for the wife), and a king's ransom for plates. I really enjoy that Monoball when traveling with the Pentax 6x7 because it maximizes the strength-to-bulk ratio. It's worthless for a view camera though--it's just too hard to level. I can turn the top of the ball head into the sideways slot and hang those long telephoto lenses on it, and still have a gimbal head of sorts, as long as the lens has a rotating tripod collar. The Pentax 200 with 2x does not, but that is a fairly light combination when using the latest SMC Pentax lens (early Takumars are much heavier).

I have not ever needed the safety stops on Arca plates, but I'm sure I'll screw up at some point.

Rick "who even has an Arca plate on the bottom of his Speed Graphic" Denney

[Gary Tarbert]

Not everyone likes quick releases. Count me as one who prefers a good screw.Don't we all:) as for quick release plates i use the rc4 type with the 410 geared head feels far more secure than the hex types BTW i hate ball heads with a passion but that's just me Cheers Gary

[MichaelR2011]

The overwhelming enthusiasm for quick release plates certainly answered my question. Again, thanks to everyone. This forum is truly an amazing source of information. Best wishes for the new year.
Michael

[Dave Hally]

+1 for the 410 head and QR plate. I use on both my Tpyo 45A and my Chamonix 45n-2. With the Toyo, the whole rig has gone over onto a rock, breaking the front base of the camera. The QR plate held just fine. With the CHamonix, I use 2 screws to hold the QR plate to the camera and have had no problems.
Dave Hally

[Robert Opheim]

I had an accident with a Bogen tripod quick release in the 1980's. I had a false lock into the tripod head - while out shooting a building. I adjusted the tripod head and the Toyo camera fell off of the tripod and was damaged. So I am not a big fan of quick releases. I haven't tried another quick release system since. The nature of large format is shooting slowly - I want to make sure that I can depend on my setup of equipment so I can focus on the image.

[Tony Evans]

Frank,

When you are in a hurry, a Good Screw can't beat a Quick Release :).

[Kirk Gittings]

Frank,

When you are in a hurry, a Good Screw can't beat a Quick Release :).

Very funny!