How to Spot Meter, and best metering techniques in general for Landscapes...?

[njrfotografia]

How to Spot Meter, and best metering techniques in general for Landscapes...?
(Using Large Format, MF and 35mm film, as well as full framed digi body too)

Hi all!
I am somewhat of a novice when it comes to all things spot metering related and advanced techniques of metering, just realising this after feeling dwarfed by how much I have neglected to take on board and learn so I am on a mission to absorb all the info I can to prepare me for my travels next year shooting projects mostly with a Linhof 617 panoramic camera…
So I just want to start back at the basics and nail it all down!

So the topics I'd like to query are:

• Spot Metering? Get a reading for the "Highlights" the "Midtone(s)" and the "Shadows" etc.. what then is best to eight these three plus readings to get a usable exposure to capture my image correctly?
• Is the use of ND Grad. filters absolutely essential to get an over all, evenly exposed image? Obviously in cases of extreme sun shine and bright skies it might be? Is it correct that 0.3 strength equals 1 whole stop, 0.6 equals 2 stops etc…?
• The Zone System...
I have a basic understanding of Ansel Adams B/W zone system principles, "expose for shadows, develop for highlights" etc... but how is it done and how is it applied in this day and age, if (for people like me) people don't have access to their own darkroom and printing facilities? How is it done digitally or with being able to do your own developing and printing with negative and slide films? Is it even worth applying today or is there better methods for overall exposure of a wide scenic landscape range…?

Any help people can give me, advice or guidance I'd much appreciate it!
Cheer and thank you in advance!
Na†han

[Adam Kavalunas]

I use a Pentax Digital Spotmeter. The first thing I did was create my own scale. I took a label, cut it down so it fits on the meter just under the orange EV numbers. My scale goes from -3, to +3, (with 1/3 stops hash marks) spaced out so these numbers match up with EV numbers when the dial is turned. Similar to the zone scale, but I wanted stop increments rather than zones. When I meter a scene, I meter the darkest areas and the lightest areas. I predominantly shoot Astia, so I'm looking for these meter readings to be within 5 stops at the most. If I meter a scene and get 8, and 12, I turn the dial until the 8 lines up with my -2, and the 12 will be at +2. This means that my darkest spots of the scene will be 2 stops underexposed and my brightest spots will be 2 stops overexposed. Both pushing the limits of the film, but still containing plenty of information in the digital scan.

Now if a scene has a broader range than 5 stops I use 2 techniques, either use a grad if the bright areas have a relatively defined edge, like where land meets sky, or (more recently) just take two shots exposing one for shadows, and then another for highlights, and merge the scans later. If I meter a scene and only get 1-3 stops difference, I prefer to just place the exposure smack in the middle. It may come back pretty bland, but at least I know I captured all the detail I could, and i'll up the contrast after its scanned.

[dperez]

There are a number of threads in this forum on metering. I'm no expert, but I think in part it depends on what kind of photography you are pursuing. If you are using transparencies primarily, then the approach Adam mentioned above, or a variation of it will work best.

For transparencies, I use a Sekonic 558L and meter for the average midtone. (I can arrive at an average by taking a reading of the brightest point in a scene that I want there to be detail in, set that reading in the meter's memory, then take another reading of the darkest area where I want detail and set that in the memory as well. Next I, set the meter to average to two exposures, then holding the measuring button down, I can evaluate the scene. If the highlights fall within +2 and the darkest shadows fall within -2, I should be okay (Some prefer +/- 1 2/3 range). If the highlights are say +3, then I know I would need a nd grad to bring down the highlights a bit.

To arrive at the middle gray you can also use a grey card, or take an average of a couple middle tones. If you are in the same light as the scene, you can just get by with an incident meter reading.

Here’s a video that might help you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxWLm1wGTi4&sns=em

If you are shooting B&W using the Zone system, the metering process is slightly different in that nd grad filters are not generally relied on to control highlights. Highlights are controlled in the development process, while shadows are controlled through exposure. I will not get too much into this because I am not an expert, I primarily shoot color negative and transparencies, and there is a ton of this information in the forum archives.

As to the last part of your question, the zone system is very much in use today, and is relevant. I recommend you buy Ansel Adams' three book series; The Camera, The Negative, and The Print. These can be found used for a decent price. There are other sources as well so take a look here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/books/general.html

I think in order to have the ideal control over the final product using the zone system you need to be processing your own film. It's difficult to apply the zone system to its fullest if you are sending your negatives to a lab to be processed. There are just too many unknowns. You don't know what chemistry they use, their process, how skilled the lab techs are, etc.

As far as a hybrid process is concerned, I think the zone system can still be used to control the dynamic range. Once processed, you can scan and continue to edit for digital output, but again the process to control shadows and highlights in the darkroom is still relevant, although there may be some tweaking involved since the zone system also takes into consideration the grade of paper one intends to use. Again, others in this forum are much more knowledgeable in these areas than I, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Spend some time reading up on these topics.

Good luck.

-DP

[Brian Ellis]

When I did an advanced search in this forum using "zone system" as the key words in titles only I got two full pages of threads or approximately 60 threads dealing with it. Not all of them of course would be relevant to your questions but some surely would be. So I'd suggest starting there for your zone system questions.

In saying this I'm not trying to be snide or rude and I hope you don't take it that way. It's just that I and others here have explained the basics of the zone system so many times that it seems pointless to keep typing the same things over and over when the forum already contains answers to most zone system questions.

[SMBooth]

Here the best explanation Ive ever read:
Aim the one degree spot at the darkest area in the scene where you still want to see some detail. Close down two stops.

You have just placed the shadow area in Zone III.

That's usually the proper exposure for the scene.

Now, aim the spot at the brightest area in the scene.

If it's a five stop range between the darkest and brightest reading, use normal development.

Less than five, increase development.

More than five, decrease development.

No need to take a whole series of meter readings and average them. That's defeating the purpose.

Just make certain that you have given enough exposure to get some detail in the shadows. Then, develop for the highlights.

That's the Zone System in a nut shell.

[Gem Singer]

SMBooth,

Thanks for posting that for me.

I wrote that info. about spot metering for the Zone System a while back, and wanted to post it here.

However, I could not find it among my past postings in order to furnish a link.

[BrianShaw]

I wrote that info. about spot metering for the Zone System a while back, and wanted to post it here.

YOU are AA?

[Gem Singer]

Brian,

Sometimes I feel as old as AA.

SMBooth's post is a direct quote from past my post.

Mine was a simplified version.

AA's was much more detailed.

[BrianShaw]

AAs was too detailed!

But I must admit that I find it easy and fairly effective with my Sekonic L-558 to take a couple of readigns and press the AVG button!

[Gem Singer]

Brian,

The simple method you describe is actually an incident light reading, even though you are using the spot metering feature of your Sekonic meter.

That method works fine for color film and 75% of B&W photos.

However averaging the highlight and shadow exposures does not always give enough exposure to the shadows when using B$W film.

The basic principle of the Zone system is: "Expose for the shadows, develop for the highlights".

Especially with B&W film, and only slightly with color film, is it possible to do plus and minus development to control the highlights.

[Nathan Potter]

That Gem explanation was the most succinct distillation one could find. Elaborations beyond that can begin to confuse those not familiar with zone system technique. But I'll add another component.

Part of the trick in executing what Gem says is trying to decide where in the scene you want to place the shadow and highlight areas with their appropriate detail. This is the hard part and has to do with what's called previsualization. You have to study the subject and decide where the shadow and highlight detail will be in your negative, then meter those areas, then adjust the development accordingly.

BTW, there is no substitution for calibrating the film exposure and development ahead of time if you want precise results.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Gem Singer]

I realize that many of you won't agree, but there is no need to obsess about testing B&W film to to get the exposure and development to an exact point. It isn't rocket science.

Black and white film (and to a smaller extent, color negative film) has quite a bit of latitude to work with. You can be a stop or two off and still make a very acceptable print from the negative.

Photoshop and Pyro developer have increased that latitude. It's nearly impossible to blow out the highlights due to over exposure when using a pyro developer. Brightness and contrast can easily be adjusted with Photoshop.

Just keep one principle in mind: "If it's not on the negative, it's not going to be on the print".

You need to give adequate exposure to obtain detail in the shadow areas.

[Nathan Potter]

Hey Gem, I don't think I would disagree with that. Especially if I had nearly 80 years of experience with film and development and metering practice. Maybe you are like me; when I look at a subject I tend to see the negative unfold on the GG.

I still like to do an occasional calibration though.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Bill Burk]

Since I started spotting shadow and checking development contrast index I noticed one interesting fact:

I've been running out of Grade 2 paper faster than Grade 3.

Literally, before calibration, I used to underdevelop.

I find printing a fitted neg on Grade 2 "easier" than making an equivalent print from a thinner/flatter neg under a Grade 4 filter. Feels like the "third f-stop" times that I consider "least noticeable difference" at Grade 2 are not fine-enough increments when working with the higher grades. I find the print tones harder to control.

My point should be compatible with the good advice from Gem Singer and Nathan Potter. Do just enough calibration/testing to know that you are exposing enough and developing enough. Then go out and take pictures because once you are "under control" you have plenty of latitude.

[Leigh]

I don't know why anybody would try to spot-meter a landscape.

The individual tonal areas are much too small to isolate with a 1° meter.

Take an ambient reading, and if there's shadow detail of interest, increase the exposure by a stop (for b&w).

Like Gem said, it's not rocket science.

- Leigh

[atlcruiser]

I agree that it is not rocket science but I stil had/have some issues with it. I actually did some tests and learned more about how the variables interacted. Once I have a vague idea of what actually happened between exposure and print I relaxed a LOT!

I do spot meter shadows and I bet I always will but I also have finally learned to expose enough.........getting all of the image onto the negative is essential. After that is is just messing about in the darkroom or on the computer.

Use one film, one developer, one process, one paper, one paper developer and learn that one well and suddenly it all starts to make better sense :)

[BrianShaw]

I don't know why anybody would try to spot-meter a landscape.

The individual tonal areas are much too small to isolate with a 1° meter.

Take an ambient reading, and if there's shadow detail of interest, increase the exposure by a stop (for b&w).


I don't necessarily agree that tonal areas in a landscape are too small to spot meter... but I have taken enough spot readings and calculated an "ideal" exposure, only to find out that it isn't too different than a general coverage reflected reading or an ambient reading produced. So I spot meter only in very challenging situations when scene evaluation is likely to be essential. Others may opt for being scientifically accurate/precise but I don't have enough time to invest in that approach... and I get decent images nonetheless.

[Gem Singer]

I use a spot meter for almost every exposure (excluding the occasional flash shot). It's the only type of meter I own.

When photographing landscapes that have a low contrast range, I look for a Zone V area (18% grey), and use the actual spot meter reading for the exposure.

Zone V (18% grey) can be represented by the surface of a lake, an area of green grass, etc.

Many photogs use a grey card to take their reading. Of curse, there's always the "sunny sixteen rule".

We're referring to B&W film here, but it also applies to color film.

Learn to recognize Zone V (18% grey) when you see it.

[BrianShaw]

Of curse, there's always the "sunny sixteen rule".


I feel he same way about sunny-sixteen. It works when it works but there are locations when sunny-eleven is the rule.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

Spot metering is extremely useful to keep from blowing out highlights (when using color transparency, that is), particular if you've got snowcapped peaks in the distance. Sunny f/22 is often a better rule at the beach in summer or at altitude in the mountains.

[Ken Lee]

"How is it done and how is it applied in this day and age, if (for people like me) people don't have access to their own darkroom and printing facilities?"

Find out what you can from whoever develops your film: do they let you specify developer or development times? What methods do they use ? You'll have to adapt to them or find someone who will support your efforts.

"How is it done digitally or with being able to do your own developing and printing with negative and slide films?"

You might find this article (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/testing.php) helpful.

[BradS]

"I realize that many of you won't agree, but there is no need to obsess...It isn't rocket science."


I completely agree.

A sheet of 4x5 or 8x10 is NOT fundamentally any different from a frame of 35mm or 120 roll film when it comes to determining the exposure. There are many methods of determining exposure, spot metering and the zone system are just one. Nothing about large format necessitates the use of that particular method.

[Leigh]

Use one film, one developer, one process, one paper, one paper developer and learn that one well...
That's the best advise anyone could give. ;)

- Leigh

[Gary Tarbert]

That's the best advise anyone could give. ;)

- LeighMy motto exactly Then they go and discontinue the film , or stop importing it to any country where you can buy it at a reasonable price Cheers Gary

[Marizu]

A sheet of 4x5 or 8x10 is NOT fundamentally any different from a frame of 35mm or 120 roll film when it comes to determining the exposure. There are many methods of determining exposure, spot metering and the zone system are just one. Nothing about large format necessitates the use of that particular method.
This is absolutely true, but the cost of a sheet of 10x8 is fundamentally different to the cost of a 120 frame so I can't afford to bracket and I really don't want to get my exposure wrong (not trying to dig at you, Brad, just trying to get to the bottom of why people obsess about metering).

Metering isn't rocket science when you have a good understanding of it.

Spot metering for the shadows is the most consistent way that I have found to ensure that I don't under-expose negative film and spot metering the most significant highlights is the best way that I have found to not to blow chromes.

Incident can be a bit of a crap shoot under certain lighting conditions.

The time and frustration of metering might be a consideration. My Sekonic type (5nn?) is slow because they only take a reading one click at a time and you have to remove it from your eye to see the reading.
I have an older type where you just press the trigger, sweep it around the scene and then remember the smallest number that you see. That is really fast and easy to use.

[Brian Ellis]

AAs was too detailed!

But I must admit that I find it easy and fairly effective with my Sekonic L-558 to take a couple of readigns and press the AVG button!

That's certainly fine if your objective is to simply make a printable negative and I wouldn't criticize that method or that goal. But the goal of the zone system isn't just to get a printable negative, it's to allow you to make the print you want to make with the least possible effort. That print might be a high-key print in which the darkest area is a light gray, it might be a dark, moody print in which the brightest area is a middle gray, it might be a "normal" print in which there are detailed dark shadows and bright highlights, or it might be something in between any of those things.

Adams' explanation and use of the zone system was pretty simple and IMHO not too detailed. It was Minor White et al who made it so complicated that many people just found it more trouble than it was worth to use.

[Preston]

"But the goal of the zone system isn't just to get a printable negative, it's to allow you to make the print you want to make with the least possible effort."

Quite true, Brian. I used the Zone System consistently when I was doing B&W, and still use it for color. The Zone System's ultimate goal was to aid in visualizing the final print using a standardized set of materials and procedures that one devloped through testing.

I also found that Adam's explanation of the system to be quite clear. The Negative and The Print were my bibles.

The key is to develop a system that works for you (rhetorical) and to use it consistently.

I use a spot meter exlusively. I find that it's use gives me the best results, especially with color transparency films.

--P

[tgtaylor]

For general scenic landscape photography I have found that the quickest and most sure-fire method of metering is simply taking a reading off a gray card placed in the same light as the view with my Pentax 1-degree spot meter and, after checking around the scene with the spot meter to see how that setting is going to work out, going with that. In 99% of the time that setting works perfectly and gives beautiful negatives.

To determine what object out there is "middle gray," simply compare it with the gray card. Is is brighter, darker, or about the same as the card? Click on it and find out.

For non-standard lighting situation, you determine how bright or dark an object is to be.

Thomas

[Chuck P.]

Adams' explanation and use of the zone system was pretty simple and IMHO not too detailed. It was Minor White et al who made it so complicated that many people just found it more trouble than it was worth to use.

Amen! Thank you for shedding light on the truth! I've heard so much crap about AA and the ZS from from so many that just don't get it.

[David_Senesac]

I'm an old landscape photographer. The most difficult skill necessary to be successful with view cameras is being able to successfully expose sheet film. Especially if that is narrow latitude transparency film like the Provia I shoot exclusively. Unlike smaller film formats or digital, sheet film and its processing is way too expensive for ordinary peons to have the luxury of bracketing. And setting up and taking shots can be so time consuming and elements like clouds or calm can be so fleeting that often one really only has one momentary chance to take a single shot. So the challenge is to get it right most of the time. Accordingly, I think that only a small percentage of outdoor photographers could ever be successful using big sheet film. Especially those that have not paid their dues of lots of experience in the field.


I almost never bracket even for important shots unless conditions are below EV12 in which case I have on occasion. For many years in the 80s and early 90s I used a 35mm SLR camera shooting Kodachrome with spot metering and learned when it was useful and when it didn't matter. I really did not need spot metering most of the time much as BrianShaw related. Same as today even though my 4x5 meter can meter in spot too. Instead I mainly take ambient readings of the sun and sky while considering how that will expose the specific landscape I am framing. All my thinking is in EV levels. During most days one has to become skilled at shooting scenery in the EV14 to EV15.2 range.

My main point here is that yes one can use spot metering most of the time as many suggest, but there are other techniques being used by some of us that are also very successful. So skill with a spot meter is not a necessity. However it is the one exposure method for which a new photographer might receive the most community support.

[neil poulsen]

There's are simultaneous themes that are traveling side by side in this thread.

One theme is the best way to render a B&W print on silver-gelatin paper. In my experience, if the exposure and development of the negative isn't reasonably on target, then no amount of adjustment of exposure or paper contrast in the darkroom is going to necessarily render an excellent print. It's not just about making the printing process easy. There might be this or that case where one can render an excellent silver-gelatin print with hard work from an improperly exposed or developed negative. But for my photography, in the majority of cases, if the negative isn't properly exposed and developed, it's game over! As I see it, that's why Adams liked to expose two sheets of film at the same exposure: so that he could have a second chance at proper development.

I'd like to make another point on rendering good B&W prints on silver-gelatin paper. Doing calibrations and testing is essential to determining proper development.

A second theme is rendering a good B&W image on digital media by scanning the negative. I haven't really made a good study of this. But I find that if I have a properly exposed and developed B&W for silver-gelatin, then I can get a decent scan to render a good B&W print on digital media.

Other themes relate to color photography. But my primary intent was to address B&W.