De-bossing mat board for small prints

[Eric Woodbury]

I want to de-boss a mat board for dry mounting prints about 5x7 inches. I know this is usually done with an etching press, but I don't have the room. I'd like to know if it is possible with a small book press? How exactly is this done?

Thanks for the help.

Eric

[nolindan]

A back of the envelope calculation says a small book press, well greased, should be able to put down 8,000 lbs of force without much problem. Over 40 square inches that would be a pressure of 200 psi. To see the effect of 200psi, try putting a 1 square inch block on the mat board and then standing on the block (do it on paving stone or concrete so there isn't any deformation.)

You should, of course, use a Woodburytype (http://www.oocities.org/woodburytype/) press...

[Jim Noel]

Eric,
A book press works well. Jan Pietrzak (sp?)has used one for years.
Jim

[Nathan Potter]

A used Carver press with 20 ton capacity will work well. Check ebay. You'll need a flat head piece for the press though - probably surface ground in a machine shop.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Jan Pietrzak]

Jim,

Close but not correct. You got the name right, but not the press. I have a small etching press (14x28in bed) that does the job just fine. Nicholas is on, as far as the pressure is concerned. I once asked a press builder what is the pressure at the point the rollers touch the felts, paper and bed of the press. About 2,000 to 4,000 lb/in.
So you would need a BIG book press to do that.

Eric come to Santa Fe and we can talk about it.

Jan Pietrzak

[Kirk Gittings]

Sorry to be so ignorant........but what the heck is De-Bossing?

[Eric Woodbury]

Kirk

de-bossing is the opposite, with respect to the top surface, of embossing. Deboss is pushing the finished surface down and embossing is pushing it up. A debossed mat is one with a well that created by compressing the mat board. The pic is mounted in the bottom of the well and when put behind glass, doesn't touch. It has the look of an overmat without the overmat. It is a very nice effect and typically done with an etching press, which is a roller press.

[Roger Thoms]

Sorry to be so ignorant........but what the heck is De-Bossing?

Yeah, what Kirk asked.

Roger

[Jan Pietrzak]

Kirk,

De-bossing is an impression into paper, embossed is a raised design or logo in/on paper. Kirk, remember the recessed area my prints sit/set in on the water color paper, that is a de-bossment into the paper.

Jan Pietrzak

[Eric Woodbury]

Jan, I'd love to come out to St Fe.
I don't have room for an etching press or a Carver. Kevin Martini-Fuller says he knows a way. Probably involves a car jack.
I emailed you. Hope the old address works.
Eric

[DanK]

I was curious as well, thanks Kirk for asking....and Eric and Jan for answering...

A couple questions, if you all don't mind...

Is the back of the mat flat after de-bossing, or does the impression push through?

and

Is there problems with the compressed area swelling in the future? ie. humidity?

and

How do you mount in the de-bossed 'well' - I assume drymounting, but does the 'well' prevent even pressure in mounting the print?

Thanks,
Dan

[Eric Woodbury]

I have a print that must be 30 years old that is in a debossed well. It has not changed in 30 years and the back is flat. The mat board is compressed and stays that way. You can mount a pic in a well by putting a piece of mat board over the print that is the same size as the well before you pull the platen down on your dry mount press.
This is my experience and your mileage may vary. Not sure of the details. Trying to figure it out without getting over invested. -=ew=-

[DanK]

Thanks Eric...

Dan

[Jan Pietrzak]

I have not dry mounted a print in years. For the most part I am a platinum printer and have been for some 30 years. The early work is over matted with either hinges or corners to hold the print. The work in the de-bossment is tipped in with either a hinge or a double sided adhesive.

The de-bossment is done with a press and mat board cut outs.
1. a lay out on paper as to the placement of the blank
2. then the blank goes in place
3. the watercolor paper (300lb about the same as 2 ply mat board) on top of that
4. press blankets are next
5. run through the press
6. take out and do it again, and again (I run a number of them at one time)

As to the expansion of the de-bossment I have not seen any. And like Jim said I have been doing it for years.

Jan Pietrzak

[D. Bryant]

I have not dry mounted a print in years. For the most part I am a platinum printer and have been for some 30 years. The early work is over matted with either hinges or corners to hold the print. The work in the de-bossment is tipped in with either a hinge or a double sided adhesive.

The de-bossment is done with a press and mat board cut outs.
1. a lay out on paper as to the placement of the blank
2. then the blank goes in place
3. the watercolor paper (300lb about the same as 2 ply mat board) on top of that
4. press blankets are next
5. run through the press
6. take out and do it again, and again (I run a number of them at one time)

As to the expansion of the de-bossment I have not seen any. And like Jim said I have been doing it for years.

Jan Pietrzak

I've attempted de-bossing with a vacuum easel, a piece of glass or aluminum and a wet print. I've never been able to get mine to look like Jan's.

Jan I wish you could publish a how-to video on YouTube.

Don

[Jan Pietrzak]

Don,

Come to Santa Fe and shoot the video, I will do the acting. It does sound like a fun thing to do.

Jan Pietrzak

[fenderfour]

Why not use a vice? Or a stamp and a hammer? If you aren't trying to deboss the entire surface, just logo or the like, it will be much easier, less expensive, and take up less space.

FYI - I'm a "fine art" printmaker and I have my own etching press at home.

[Eric Woodbury]

Fenderfour, I'm trying to deboss an area 5x7 inches. I thought about a book press, but not enough pressure. I don't see any way except for the etching press or bigger.

[Tracy Storer]

Check out the site for "build your own press" I paid for and downloaded the plans a while back, but have not started anything....

http://www.dougforsythegallery.com/Press.html

[Struan Gray]

Or you could use one of these: Würsa (http://www.danielfirman.com/exhibitions/wursa/wursa2.html).