Cezanne Lamps + ColorGenius Question

[mdala]

Hi all,

I recall a thread in which several Screen Cezanne users mentioned that it was possible to scan film with only one of the two bottom tray lamps. Is this correct?

Also, I'd like to find out if it's possible to adjust Shadow Density (SD) and Highlight Density (HD) in the later versions of Color Genius, when scanning negatives. I only have version 1 of the software and, weirdly, it looks like I can't adjust any of these parameters in that version, unless I scan positives/slides.

Thanks

MD

[Bob McCarthy]

No, if your not going to scan reflective materials, you can remove both lamps, and only retain the lamps for transmission scanning.

The configuration is for the model 5000. The latter model uses a different lamp configuration, though I would guess the same concept would apply.

Yes scan negatives as positives and invert in your editor ie photoshop.

Bob

[mdala]

Thanks a lot for the lamp info Bob. I'll keep the reflection lamps as spares.

Scanning negs as positives and inverting in photoshop doesn't give good results...

Also, if you have a particular methodology for scanning negs on the Cezanne, without throwing information in the low end (shadows) and without clipping highlights, I'd be grateful if you could share it.

Thanks again

MD

[Peter De Smidt]

You want to keep the two upper lamps for film scanning. Are you interested in scanning BW or Color negatives?

[mdala]

Hi Peter,

I've got an Elite, so the lamps are different (two in the bottom tray for reflective) and a single lamp in the upper tray for transmissive. I just removed the bottom lamps and I can still scan film. Nice!

As for my Color Genius question; I want to scan color negatives.

Thank you

MD

[photoSmart42]

Scanning negs as positives and inverting in photoshop doesn't give good results...

Also, if you have a particular methodology for scanning negs on the Cezanne, without throwing information in the low end (shadows) and without clipping highlights, I'd be grateful if you could share it.


There's no good way to scan color negs on the Cezanne without some clipping on either end, which is unfortunate. I've been getting decent results by calibrating colors using a ColorChecker shot, and scanning as negs with all the settings turned off and using RGB 0-255.

[Peter York]

I have had some success with setting black and white points while scanning as a positive.
You may want to check out the ColorNeg plugin: http://www.c-f-systems.com/Plug-ins.html

[photoSmart42]

I have had some success with setting black and white points while scanning as a positive.
You may want to check out the ColorNeg plugin: http://www.c-f-systems.com/Plug-ins.html

I played around with ColorPerfect (includes ColorNeg), but it was really complicated to use. Guess I need to spend some more time on it. It did show some promising results. I also tried the Silverfast DCPro demo, and it also showed some decent results, but it's pricey if it's only used for the NegaFix feature. Wish I was able to load TIFF files into Silverfast Studio since that also has NegaFix built in, and I have that software.

[Bob McCarthy]

I have a method that works, but it's inconsistent. I'm not color neg proficient by any means.

My way

Scan negative making sure some of selection box contains some of clear film edge.

Scan rgb positive.

In photoshop sample clear film edge in levels with grey eyedropper to neutralize mask to grey.

Recrop to final size

Invert in photoshop to positive.

Set white/black points

Edit as required.

Sometimes it works great, sometimes in chasing color correction. Anyone tell me why it's not consistent?

Bob

[photoSmart42]

Sometimes it works great, sometimes in chasing color correction. Anyone tell me why it's not consistent?

Bob

I think it has something to do with the non-linear nature of film emulsions which is really difficult to replicate digitally without some complex mapping algorithm (which is what something like AC Calibrator does).

[mdala]

Thanks to everyone for your input.

Peter (York), ColorNeg/ColorPerfect (CNCP) is the method I'm starting to use. However, for best results, it's best to feed it a purely linear file, with no color Look Up Table (LUT) applied and a gamma of 1.0.

Although CNCP can deal with files which have different gamma, I have a feeling that even when scanning negs as positives - with black and white points set to 0-255 and maximum dmax - the data in the file isn't a true representation of everything that's in the neg. It's not possible to bypass the Screen software to get the CCD data from the scanner. (that's the data that the scanner processes when it displays the "Setup" progress bar). Because of this, the LUT applied by CNCP doesn't produce the best tonality. And the GUI for that software is too convoluted for me.

This secondary method gives good results, but it's not perfect:

-scan negs as positives (scan wide so there is no clipping in low and high ends)

-in photoshop, sample the orange mask

-create a solid color layer of that sampled color

-set its transfer mode to difference (this will basically remove the orange from the image and give you a very low contrast inverterted image)

-add Levels adjustment layer

-leave the RGB adjustment alone, but tweak R G and B levels so that the rightmost triangle is as close as possible to the part of the left edge of the histogram. (you need to do this for R G and B separately)

-at this point, the low contrast image looks much better but needs a bit more work

-add a curves adjustment layer and shape the RGB curve (the main one, not each the one for each channel) so that it looks like an S (pull in the low end of the curve and push the high end

-there should be more contrast in the image now

-if there is still a color cast, add another curve adjustment layer and tweak individual R G and B or use a Selective color adjustment layer and tweak it's Neutral component


What I found the most frustrating with the Color Genius Software is that it's impossible to tweak SD and HD when scanning negs. If only I could do that, scanning negs as positives would be pointless. Ironically, Screen allows their drum scanning software to set SD and HD whether negs or slides are being scanned... Go figure.

Can someone confirm that it is NOT possible to tweak SD and HD points with Color Genius version 2 or EX?

Thanks

MD

[Bob McCarthy]

I bought my 5000 from a catalog house and the software contains some presets for color negative film. Most of the film types are for consumer style film that the company apparently used in its catalogs. Kodak Gold and some other now obsolete films.

How are these developed, by Screen, internally, or 3rd party. I'd call the company, but it apparently didnt make it through the recession.

Is there a process out there to create "profiles"? I did try one preset and it came fairly close on the first try (Fuji 160S).

Can these be shared??

I wish we could append this discussion to the master Cezanne file. Its getting to become a useful resourse for folks new to the Cezanne.

bob

[Peter De Smidt]

I did some perusing of the manual a few weeks ago. It is possible to modify the negative "profiles". I see no reason why they couldn't be shared. In my case, though, I scan BW negatives 99.9% of the time, and so it's not important enough for me to look into this too much, at least at the moment. Maybe this'll change mid-winter.

[mdala]

Can someone please confirm that it is NOT possible to tweak SD and HD points with Color Genius version 2 or EX, when scanning negatives.

I only have version 1 of the software.

Thanks!!

[Peter York]

I have version 2 and when you select negative, SD and HD input is blocked.

Have you tried contacting Screen?

[mdala]

I have version 2 and when you select negative, SD and HD input is blocked.

Have you tried contacting Screen?


Thanks Peter. This confirms what I thought. Screen wasn't able to tell me apart from the cost of the latest version of ColorGenius (around 1500EUR if I remember correctly. Gasp).

[Peter York]

I mentioned contacting Screen because they may have some suggestions for scanning color negative (modifying negative profiles, getting a linear scan, etc.), though I doubt they will be of much help.

Like Bob and Peter, most of my scanning is B&W or E-6. I will work on color negative this winter. However, since I'm having some trouble with banding in color negatives, I may give up altogether and stock up on Astia. I'll keep the main thread abreast of any developments on my end. Good luck!

[mdala]

I did ask, but as you guessed, not much help there.

And now , new issue. After many tries, I can't get a sharp scan with the Cezanne... Sigh.

Will post about it in the main thread.