Fuji Velvia 50

[psychoanalyst]

Hi,

I recently bought a box of 4x5 Fuji Velvia 50 film to capture the fall colors that are about to come down south.

Also bought 4 rolls of 120 Velvia as well.

Now the issue I am facing is I can't figure out which chemistry to get. Kodak E6 seems to be talked about but that looks discontinued.

Any recommendations?

The processing system I am currently setting up includes a Unicolor paper drum and motor base...so rotary processing.

Not too worried about the 120 film since that might goto Walmart.

Thanks.

Avi

[vinny]

use the search option
freestyle photo sells e-6 kits but.....

E-6 requires very accurate temperature control. How are you going to do that on the motor base? If you don't have a way to use a water jacket, you may want to just send the film out if you expect good results.

[Daniel Stone]

if you're not open to getting 10L quantities of chems, then I'd suggest finding a lab you can send out to, or use locally. If you want the best results for your shots, I'd forget the cheapy E-6 "home kits" that Freestyle sells. Go to a lab that uses real chemicals, and not Blix. Just my $.02

There's at least one in Atlanta I'd imagine.

-Dan

[psychoanalyst]

Great.advice guys....thanks for talking me out of the e6 kit.$3 per sheet, but I guess I can make up for that by shooting less often.

Btw....is rotary processing ok for c41 processing? How about d76 b&w?

Thanks,

Avi

[Ari]

Btw....is rotary processing ok for c41 processing? How about d76 b&w?



Yes and yes.

[Roger Cole]

"Cheapy" E6 works just as well as any other in my experience (and I used a lot of Unicolor E6, which is what Freestyle sells now, in the old days) provided YOU work as well with it.

The possible issue is that some people claim that a combined bleach/fix, "blix" in Unicolor terminology, is not as good from an archival standpoint as a separate bleach and fix. This I do not know about, though E6 I did with the three step chems in the 90s still looks fine.

You can do it yourself but without some kind of automated temperature control it will be a PITA. Been there, done that, bought the Jobo. ;)

[psychoanalyst]

The jobo will be the ultimate gift to myself once I start my first job in a few months....until then I will learn with the unicolor system.

Still learning the tricks of the trade, so a great time to make those wonderful mistakes!!:))

Avi

[Daniel Stone]

you can shoot more, and worry less about poorly-developed chromes/negs IF you use a good lab :). Color processing CAN be finicky. It isn't just time/temp. Chems degrade, and with that you can get not only constrast problems, but color crossover. I've used the powdered(and liquid) "kits", both 3 bath and 6(Kodak 5L). The 5L kit was the ONLY one that I felt delivered my desired results. I'm nit-picky about my processing. I even had to choose my lab b/c they're savvy enough to put the clip marks on the OUTSIDE edges of the film, rather than in the image area itself. This spoke leaps and bounds to me, and that's the primary reason I went with them. I still occasionally do a roll/few sheets of C-41 when I'm enrolled at the local photo center, which keeps C-41 chems from Trebla on hand for students use. However, 95% of my color film from now on will be developed by a lab, I've already mentioned two labs that work for me, but there's lots of good/great labs out there, you can find one easily by googling :).

Just an FYI on jobo stuff. It isn't made anymore, and N.O.S. parts are getting hard(er) to find. Servicing these machines is pretty much nil. Just an FYI.

I'm not trying to dissuade you in your efforts, and stated intentions of wanting to pursue color developing. But if you want CONSISTENT results, and with a little bit more $$$ out of pocket, you can take(or ship) your film to a lab that serves lots of customers, and provides quality, consistent processing. Besides, if THEY aren't using the chems quickly enough, Fuji/Kodak might not see much more profit in making them :o. I was in your "shoes" a year back or so. But I found that it was less headache and a with a little patience, having a good lab process your color film makes photography more fun(at least for me :))

-Dan

[psychoanalyst]

Makes perfect sense.......i guess you are spot on regarding the degrading of the chems. That is a deal breaker, especially for someone like me who shoots for recreational purposes.

I think I am going to focus only on home development of 4x5 b&w negs and give the color to labs. We have e-six labs in Atlanta who process 4x5 for $3 a sheet......that looks like the cheapest I have seen it go.

Avi

P.s.: if anyone has spare 8x10 paper drums ( beseler or unicolor), please let me know......that is the route I want to go for the moment for 4x5 development.

[goamules]

I bought some Velvia 50 for the first time the other day (It must be Fall, everyone is buying Velvia!). The guy at Jones Photo told me he bought the materials to process it a few years ago, and it cost him about $200. After that, he recommended everyone just get it developed at his or other labs.

Speaking of color development, I dropped a roll of 35mm Kodak color at walgreens yesterday. It was $11.25 when I picked it up. What the heck kind of inflation is that? When I got back into 35mm 2 years ago, Walgreens would have coupons every week, and a roll was like $4. The past year they haven't had any coupons, and the processing price goes up about a dollar a month.

[Preston]

Avi,

Velvia 50 is pretty unforgiving with respect to exposure since it has a fairly narrow dynamic range. As with any transparency film, expose for the high values, being sure that areas of pure white are small. The same is true for low values; shadows tend to block up, so keep shadow areas small.

The color is gorgeous, of course, just be careful with exposure and use a good lab. If you have time, expose and process a few sheets to be sure your exposure is right on.

Have fun with the Autumn color!

--P

[psychoanalyst]

I bought some Velvia 50 for the first time the other day (It must be Fall, everyone is buying Velvia!).

That is precisely why I bought it too!:) A box of 4x5 Velvia 50 and 2 rolls each of 50 Velvia 120 and 100 Velvia 120. All from a nice fellow LF member. I can see the leaves beginning to turn that beautiful shade of yellow and orange here in the south.


Speaking of color development, I dropped a roll of 35mm Kodak color at walgreens yesterday. It was $11.25 when I picked it up. What the heck kind of inflation is that? When I got back into 35mm 2 years ago, Walgreens would have coupons every week, and a roll was like $4. The past year they haven't had any coupons, and the processing price goes up about a dollar a month.

$11.25??? :eek: Walmart does my 120 film for $2.00 including tax....and I know they outsource the processing....the only downside is that they take 2 weeks for return....that is OK considering the cost.

[psychoanalyst]

Avi,

Velvia 50 is pretty unforgiving with respect to exposure since it has a fairly narrow dynamic range. As with any transparency film, expose for the high values, being sure that areas of pure white are small. The same is true for low values; shadows tend to block up, so keep shadow areas small.

The color is gorgeous, of course, just be careful with exposure and use a good lab. If you have time, expose and process a few sheets to be sure your exposure is right on.

Have fun with the Autumn color!

--P

Preston, thanks for the tip. I recently acquired a beautiful Gossen Luna Pro F with the vari angle attachment.

I was going to use that in reflected light mode and make my exposures. But could you expand on

"As with any transparency film, expose for the high values, being sure that areas of pure white are small. The same is true for low values; shadows tend to block up, so keep shadow areas small."

Do you mean I should try to minimize the areal coverage of bright skies or dark shadows in my shot?

Thanks.

Avi

[Preston]

"Do you mean I should try to minimize the areal coverage of bright skies or dark shadows in my shot? "

You got it, Avi.

I don't shoot much V-50, but I do use quite a bit of V-100. I have found that if I place the the highest value where I want detail (say in a cloud lit by the sun) at about 1-2/3 stops above my meter reading, things work pretty well.

Again, if you have time to run some tests, you'll be better able to predict the results.

--P

[Marvin McAbee]

You might check out E-6 Lab in Atlanta, they do sheet film and they would be local to you.
Marvin

[Peter York]

I encourage you to shoot each scene twice, once on Velvia, once on another transparency film like Provia or color negative.

Velvia 50 is lovely but very finicky. It has about +/- 1.5 stops of latitude and in the wrong situations the colors are overdone to the extent that the image looks like a cartoon gel. I love it in flat light or when I want a graphic interpretation of a scene, but for fall colors it often is too much for my tastes.

[atlcruiser]

OK....I will be the odd man out here.

I use the freestyle kits all the time for both c41 and e6 with wonderful results.

None of it is all the difficult or complicated. I now have a Jobo but I started with a adjustable, table top mini oven deal. I filled it with water, did some trial and error to get the chems to the right temps then I learned how to heat the tank prior to starting the process.

It is only is the first step that the temps are really critical. I found that, having the chems at the right temp to start with then tempering the tank resulted in no measurable loss of temperature over the 3.5 min or so needed for the first developer. The following steps are much more temp tolerant.

I understand the issues with blix vs traditional methods but I have had no issues at all.

The big advantage of doing it yourself is almost instant results. Shoot in the AM, an hour to process 12, 45 negatives, an hour to dry then you can see what you have. I found it a great learning tool.

For me the money saved it a big part but I really love the time savings. No more dropping off and picking up. I was encouraged to shoot more. You get a LOT of negatives out of the freestyle kits especially if you keep records and reuse the chems.

I might not do it at home for everything and I still use E6 a bit here in Atlanta but I would encourage you to try it yourself.

[Roger Cole]

I encourage you to shoot each scene twice, once on Velvia, once on another transparency film like Provia or color negative.

Velvia 50 is lovely but very finicky. It has about +/- 1.5 stops of latitude and in the wrong situations the colors are overdone to the extent that the image looks like a cartoon gel. I love it in flat light or when I want a graphic interpretation of a scene, but for fall colors it often is too much for my tastes.

+1.

Sometimes an exaggerated cartoon looks good, but it is pretty unrealistic. Get some Astia while you still can, or some E100G if you can find it in sheets, or Portra for C41, for the opposite end of the spectrum. They will, IMHO, look more realistic, though you may prefer exaggerated. If you want exaggerated but not quite as much as Velvia, it would be Provia in E6 or Ektar in C41.


OK....I will be the odd man out here.

I use the freestyle kits all the time for both c41 and e6 with wonderful results.

None of it is all the difficult or complicated. I now have a Jobo but I started with a adjustable, table top mini oven deal. I filled it with water, did some trial and error to get the chems to the right temps then I learned how to heat the tank prior to starting the process.

It is only is the first step that the temps are really critical. I found that, having the chems at the right temp to start with then tempering the tank resulted in no measurable loss of temperature over the 3.5 min or so needed for the first developer. The following steps are much more temp tolerant.

I understand the issues with blix vs traditional methods but I have had no issues at all.

The big advantage of doing it yourself is almost instant results. Shoot in the AM, an hour to process 12, 45 negatives, an hour to dry then you can see what you have. I found it a great learning tool.

For me the money saved it a big part but I really love the time savings. No more dropping off and picking up. I was encouraged to shoot more. You get a LOT of negatives out of the freestyle kits especially if you keep records and reuse the chems.

I might not do it at home for everything and I still use E6 a bit here in Atlanta but I would encourage you to try it yourself.

I haven't done color at home in over a decade, getting ready to start again, but this mirrors my experience back in the 90s using Unicolor (who I think makes the current Freestyle kits.)

A friend used to run a lab in Knoxville and, before he got an E6 machine and was doing some of it by hand, he actually did a comparison of the six step and three step E6 and preferred the three step stuff. I'm not saying they're identical, but they are very good. In C41 Kodak is still my recommendation if you care to buy the components in those quantities, mainly because Flexicolor has always been among the lowest contrast of C41 developers around.

According to people who have bought them (in a thread over on APUG) the Photographer's Formulary one liter C41 "developer" is actually the entire Flexicolor kit, which makes the price not quite so shocking and decent for checking it out. Maybe we could talk them into offering gallons at decent prices:

http://stores.photoformulary.com/-strse-965/Flexicolor-C-dsh-41-Developer/Detail.bok

[psychoanalyst]

I encourage you to shoot each scene twice, once on Velvia, once on another transparency film like Provia or color negative.

Velvia 50 is lovely but very finicky. It has about +/- 1.5 stops of latitude and in the wrong situations the colors are overdone to the extent that the image looks like a cartoon gel. I love it in flat light or when I want a graphic interpretation of a scene, but for fall colors it often is too much for my tastes.

Peter,

I can definitely do that for my Pentax 645 shots.....doing that for 4x5 would be prohibitive (for me) from a cost point of view.

The way I am rationalizing 4x5 Velvia is shoot less and outsource development.....

Avi

[psychoanalyst]

According to people who have bought them (in a thread over on APUG) the Photographer's Formulary one liter C41 "developer" is actually the entire Flexicolor kit, which makes the price not quite so shocking and decent for checking it out. Maybe we could talk them into offering gallons at decent prices:

http://stores.photoformulary.com/-strse-965/Flexicolor-C-dsh-41-Developer/Detail.bok

Roger,

Thanks for the tip! Yes....defnitely worth looking into if I decide to get into 4x5 color. 120 color is still ~$3 per roll at WM, so can't beat that.

Btw....so C-41 processing is far less dependent on temperature variations than E6, which is why the rotary processing (with Unicolor base and drums) work?

Avi

[psychoanalyst]

You might check out E-6 Lab in Atlanta, they do sheet film and they would be local to you.
Marvin

Marvin,

Thanks....they are 5 mins away for me actually so that is convenient. I will definitely give my first sheets of 4x5 Velvia (hopefully containing stunning images of the GA fall colors!:)) to them.

Avi

[psychoanalyst]

You got it, Avi.

I don't shoot much V-50, but I do use quite a bit of V-100. I have found that if I place the the highest value where I want detail (say in a cloud lit by the sun) at about 1-2/3 stops above my meter reading, things work pretty well.

Again, if you have time to run some tests, you'll be better able to predict the results.

--P

A stupid question here......is there a way to organize the sheets so that you know which one corresponds to what exposure? i can easily do that when I am home developing, but in a lab.....?

Avi

[I Am Luna]

Ask your lab.
I just give my holders with labels on the top to my lab and they return the film with small removable stickers on the sleeves with the label that was on the holder.
Most pro-labs can label as long as you provide them with YOUR system of labeling. Meaning, if I stacked my film in the box from a1,a2,b1,b2,c1,c2 in that order, they will give it back to me in the same order, if I asked of course.

[Jan Normandale]

OK....I will be the odd man out here.

I use the freestyle kits all the time for both c41 and e6 with wonderful results.

None of it is all the difficult or complicated. I now have a Jobo but I started with a adjustable, table top mini oven deal. I filled it with water, did some trial and error to get the chems to the right temps then I learned how to heat the tank prior to starting the process.

It is only is the first step that the temps are really critical. I found that, having the chems at the right temp to start with then tempering the tank resulted in no measurable loss of temperature over the 3.5 min or so needed for the first developer. The following steps are much more temp tolerant.

I understand the issues with blix vs traditional methods but I have had no issues at all.

The big advantage of doing it yourself is almost instant results. Shoot in the AM, an hour to process 12, 45 negatives, an hour to dry then you can see what you have. I found it a great learning tool.

For me the money saved it a big part but I really love the time savings. No more dropping off and picking up. I was encouraged to shoot more. You get a LOT of negatives out of the freestyle kits especially if you keep records and reuse the chems.

I might not do it at home for everything and I still use E6 a bit here in Atlanta but I would encourage you to try it yourself.

FWIW, the most important thing you left out is the labs can't fritz up your film. I've got a folder full of lab mistakes and also just plain bad handling of the negs or transparencies. Scratches and overlay just to mention a couple. DIY is best unless you are phobic about trying new things. After a couple of times it all comes together.

[Roger Cole]

Roger,

Thanks for the tip! Yes....defnitely worth looking into if I decide to get into 4x5 color. 120 color is still ~$3 per roll at WM, so can't beat that.

Btw....so C-41 processing is far less dependent on temperature variations than E6, which is why the rotary processing (with Unicolor base and drums) work?

Avi

Um, no, I don't think so. I think the C41 developer and E6 first developer are about equally critical, as far as I recall.

[atlcruiser]

I have had very good luck using labs.eventually I am sure i would get some that is screwed up :)

One thing I love about film is that i can do it all......I only need to buy the film and chemicals. I am even now buying the raw chemicals and mixing for B+W. The money savings is great but I like being able to do it myself and have myself to congraulate or to blame :)

[Tim k]

I bought some Velvia 50 for the first time the other day (It must be Fall, everyone is buying Velvia!). The guy at Jones Photo told me he bought the materials to process it a few years ago, and it cost him about $200. After that, he recommended everyone just get it developed at his or other labs.

Speaking of color development, I dropped a roll of 35mm Kodak color at walgreens yesterday. It was $11.25 when I picked it up. What the heck kind of inflation is that? When I got back into 35mm 2 years ago, Walgreens would have coupons every week, and a roll was like $4. The past year they haven't had any coupons, and the processing price goes up about a dollar a month.

Last time I was in a Jones Photo, they said they quit E6. Do you know something I dont?

[psychoanalyst]

FWIW, the most important thing you left out is the labs can't fritz up your film. I've got a folder full of lab mistakes and also just plain bad handling of the negs or transparencies. Scratches and overlay just to mention a couple. DIY is best unless you are phobic about trying new things. After a couple of times it all comes together.


I have had very good luck using labs.eventually I am sure i would get some that is screwed up :)

One thing I love about film is that i can do it all......I only need to buy the film and chemicals. I am even now buying the raw chemicals and mixing for B+W. The money savings is great but I like being able to do it myself and have myself to congraulate or to blame :)

I agree.....but since I am a relatively new convert to film, I am going to start off with developing B&W and nail down a development process that I am comfortable with. I tried tray and absolutely hated it, went to dip and dunk.....better, but still not that comfortable. I am trying the rotary processing now. If that works for me for B&W, I will think about graduating to color.

Thanks.

Avi

[psychoanalyst]

Um, no, I don't think so. I think the C41 developer and E6 first developer are about equally critical, as far as I recall.

Hmm.....I was under the impression that B&W and C41 are relatively less sensitive in comparison with E6....of course I may be way off.

Even B&W with D76 would required temperature control, so how do I go about doing that on a rotary base?

Avi

[domaz]

Hmm.....I was under the impression that B&W and C41 are relatively less sensitive in comparison with E6....of course I may be way off.

Even B&W with D76 would required temperature control, so how do I go about doing that on a rotary base?

Avi

I used to develop E-6 on just a rotary base. To keep the temperature from drifting down when it's on the base get a cardboard box that can cover the base and line it with aluminum foil. A little before developing turn on the lightbulb. A 60-watt light bulb can heat the air temperature inside the box fairly quickly and keep temperature from drifting.

[goamules]

Last time I was in a Jones Photo, they said they quit E6. Do you know something I dont?

I reckon. I just picked up my Velvia 50 slides. All I can say is WOW! They looked so good in the shop, I went ahead and picked a handful to have printed. As far as Velvia being picky for exposure, I guess I got lucky, I only had about 2 from the whole roll that looked underexposed. After shooting black and white and just a little "regular" color, this roll was seriously exciting. So yes, I'm going for some LF Velvia 50 next.

[Roger Cole]

Hmm.....I was under the impression that B&W and C41 are relatively less sensitive in comparison with E6....of course I may be way off.

Even B&W with D76 would required temperature control, so how do I go about doing that on a rotary base?

Avi

B&W yes, C41, I don't think so, at least "not really." C41 is different though because if the color shifts you might never know it. Since the film isn't a final image but has to be either printed or scanned and color reversed, there colors are always changed before viewing and can be tweaked at that point, rather than just looking on a light box at "what you see is what you get."

Bear in mind that only the developer (C41) and first developer (E6) are the sensitive ones. For C41 the bleach and fix essentially just go to completion and can't be overdone (within reason - not sure what an hour in hot fixer would do.) For E6 the color developer or CD/reversal bath for three step, is somewhat critical but less so than the first developer IIRC (someone else can chime in as I haven't done E6 in over a decade, but did a lot of it back then.)

I really can't say how critical they are exactly. I can tell you I did both C41 and E6 in stainless tanks with a tempering bath. I put my solutions in aluminum soda cans and ran hot or cold water over the outside until the temperature was right to start, then kept the tank in a bath of roughly-the-right-temperature water through the process, and my results were fine. I got a Jobo later and they were still fine, just with a lot less trouble.

[psychoanalyst]

Folks,

I have posted my first shots here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?p=795110#post795110

I would love to get your feedback. Thank you so much.

Avi

[Rust Never Sleeps]

I reckon. I just picked up my Velvia 50 slides. All I can say is WOW! They looked so good in the shop, I went ahead and picked a handful to have printed. As far as Velvia being picky for exposure, I guess I got lucky, I only had about 2 from the whole roll that looked underexposed. After shooting black and white and just a little "regular" color, this roll was seriously exciting. So yes, I'm going for some LF Velvia 50 next.

I never understood the myth that Velvia Films are hard to expose correctly. As long as you know your meter the film is easy to expose. Most of the pictures I take are scouted before hand and I usually take two holders with me unless I am comparing or testing films. I never get the film back without a usable exposure. Yes the lighting or composition with be off and I trash the film but exposing the film properly is not a problem as long as my head is screwed on straight which lucky for me is usually most the time.

[Rust Never Sleeps]

I encourage you to shoot each scene twice, once on Velvia, once on another transparency film like Provia or color negative.

Velvia 50 is lovely but very finicky. It has about +/- 1.5 stops of latitude and in the wrong situations the colors are overdone to the extent that the image looks like a cartoon gel. I love it in flat light or when I want a graphic interpretation of a scene, but for fall colors it often is too much for my tastes.

I love Velvia 50 but I agree 100% that it can look like cartoon gel at times. I have been shooting it long enough that if I think I might get that look with the film I also bring along some Astia 100F. I also looking forward to trying some Kodak 100G soon. Also if scanning for Digital output, a little work in photoshop to tone down the saturation and color a tad goes a long way with Velvia 50 to make a cartoon gel look more realistic.

[edit] If Fuji discontinues Astia 100F I am going to go ape shit as it is a killer film IMO.

[vinny]

If Fuji discontinues Astia 100F I am going to go ape shit as it is a killer film IMO.

Too late.

[Roger Cole]

I love Velvia 50 but I agree 100% that it can look like cartoon gel at times. I have been shooting it long enough that if I thing I might get that look with the film I also bring along some Astia 100F. I also looking forward to trying some Kodak 100G soon. Also if scanning for Digital output, a little work in photoshop to tone down the saturation and color a tad goes a long way with Velvia 50 to make a cartoon gel look more realistic.

[edit] If Fuji discontinues Astia 100F I am going to go ape shit as it is a killer film IMO.



If Fuji discontinues Astia 100F I am going to go ape shit as it is a killer film IMO.

Too late.

Yep. Already discontinued though most places seem to still have it in stock. Stock up.

Also E100G is supposed to be available in 4x5 but I can't find anyone who has any. I went to it in 35mm after I couldn't get Astia and I really like it. Maybe a touch contrastier than Astia with a different (more Kodak, less Fuji, duh) look but a very nice film. Less contrasty than Provia though, much less E100VS or Velvia.