Do you use a dark cloth?

[Rider]

I was wondering how many people use a dark cloth vs. other ways of blocking light (such as a hood). Does it depend on the subject, the lens, the camera, whether you're inside or outside?

[SamReeves]

Is the cow brown? Dark cloth or put the film holders away!

[Bill_1856]

BTZS hood.

[deatojef]

I just use a dark cloth. Although I've wanted to try the black t-shirt thing to save weight in the pack, I haven't.

[Gem Singer]

I use a dark cloth on my 5x7 camera, a folding focusing hood on my 4x5 camera, and a reflex viewing hood when using a 4x5 back on my 5x7 camera.

In my case, a dark cloth is camera specific.

[Roger Cole]

I use a dark cloth. My Technika III came with a pop out hood which was just about deteriorated away when I got the camera. It cracked some more and was on its way so I finally just removed the useless thing. The standard ground glass is too dim to use the hood without also using a cloth, making the hood superfluous, and I also couldn't get a loupe on the ground glass away from the very center with it in place.

I want to get a better cloth, however. I have the Zone VI "horse blanket" and that's pretty much what it is, bigger and heavier than needed and rather awkward. The only good thing about it is that it's black on the inside and white outside, which probably does make it less hot under it in the sun.

[Brian Ellis]

Other than at the very start of using a LF camera when I used a "horse blanket" type dark cloth for a few months, and an unlamented few weeks when I tried an Ebony viewing box or whatever exactly it was called, I always used the BTZS synthetic material hood with 4x5, 5x7, and 8x10 cameras. There are many different systems out there, they all have their pros and cons except that I never found a pro for the horse blanket, for me it was all cons.

[Roger Cole]

I said I was still using it because I hadn't bought anything better, not that I liked it. ;)

I bought it when I got into 4x5 about 1998, used it for a couple of years and put the film cameras away (I didn't go digital except for snapshots so much as just drift away from photography) and am really just in the past year getting started again. Moving the darkroom to Georgia where I live now from my parents basement in TN where I had it, setting it up in my currently running-water-less basement to use a holding bath and big jug of water, getting into other formats too, restocking all my supplies...a better dark something is on my list. It's not high on my list because the thing I have works, it's just big, heavy and awkward (and pretty much impossible to actually attach the the camera effectively. I just throw it over my head.)

[Jim Jones]

The folding hoods on my cameras do provide ground glass protecion. However, I take them off and use a cloth for focusing.

[Rider]

For anyone who uses a hood, do you take it off when using a loupe, and put it back when done with the loupe?

Is Frank there--I was wondering what he uses when dealing with semi-moving subjects (i.e. people).

[IanG]

I sometimes use a dark cloth, but always have one with me.

For hand held work with my Super Graphic (sometimes Crown Graphic) I use the hood I don't use a darkcloth, but may when using a tripod.

With my Wista the screen (fresnel screen combo) is so good at times I don't need to use a darkcloth (there's no hood) but again there's always one in the backpack.

Ian

[Joseph Dickerson]

I'm another user of a folding hood (Shen Hao in my case) to protect the gg, but I switch to a Blackjacket focusing cloth to compose and focus.

The Shen Hao focusing hood is a swing-out model which is nice if I want to loupe the gg, but I usually use reading glasses instead.

I either use +4 diopter clip-ons that flip down (bought at a fishing supply store), or +6 diopter reading glasses (bought online). I still haven't decided which I prefer, so I'm carrying both for now.

I really like the Blackjacket dark cloths. I mostly use the standard model, very light weight and compact, but if the weather is on the warm side I'll switch to the hybrid model which is bulkier and heavier, much cooler, and still weighs less than a traditional dark cloth.

At least mine is lighter than the Calumet dark cloth I still have around here somewhere.

I rarely find the folding hood adequate for outdoor shooting. It's OK in the studio however. And I have had several cameras over the years that had one. Great protection for the gg though.

JD

[Tony Evans]

Same question as Rider. Hood + Loupe = ?

[Scotty230358]

I use a rather natty small tubular dark cloth supplied by Walker Cameras. Nice and compact with a slit up the bottom to get your hand up to use your loupe. large enough to use conveniently but not so big that it acts like a sail when the wind blows.

[DrTang]

dark cloth

I have a ritzy one that comes in it's own drawstring bag..



that I end up forgetting more often than not..so I have a piece of darkish fabric I end up using..or a beachtowel..or jacket

[rdenney]

I use a Blackjacket, and love it. I have used various blanket-size dark cloths in the past, and they are hot, imperfect in blocking out light, and annoying in a wind.

With the Maxwell screen on my Sinar, I can compose with most lenses without the cloth, even in sunshine, but it helps for fine focusing and for dealing with tricky movements.

Rick "who has settled on a Silvestri tilting loupe" Denney

[E. von Hoegh]

Dark cloth. I wrap the camera in it before making the exposure, to guard against lightleaks and diminish wind vibrations.

[jp]

4x5 speed graphic; the popup hood is plenty 99% of the time. I don't bother to take anything along for that.

8x10; I use my 3-season nylon jacket for a darkcloth. I too can focus and compose without it, but it's nice to see how movements affect focus across the image as rdenney speaks of.

[Roger Cole]

Dark cloth. I wrap the camera in it before making the exposure, to guard against lightleaks and diminish wind vibrations.

You really think that diminishes the effect of wind? That's a new theory to me. I can see that extra mass would damp vibrations, but wouldn't think it would make up for the sail effect of the increased surface area.

[Scott Walker]

Darkcloth, My field camera is a Sinar 8x10 so it comes in handy as padding when I leave the camera on the tripod and carry it over my shoulder.

[Drew Wiley]

Do cameras actually exist that don't use darkcloths?

[BradS]

Do I use a...

- Dark cloth? yeah, sometimes. sometimes a tee shirt, sometimes a rangefinder and distance scale.

- loupe? no. never use a loupe. +3 reading glasses are plenty good and much easier to deal with.

[Vaughn]

Do cameras actually exist that don't use darkcloths?

I don't think so. :D I was wishing I had a mini one a couple times with my mini camera (Rolleiflex) up in the mountains last week.

I always use a darkcloth and never a loupe (very near-sighted so don't need one).

[Roger Cole]

Do I use a...

- Dark cloth? yeah, sometimes. sometimes a tee shirt, sometimes a rangefinder and distance scale.

- loupe? no. never use a loupe. +3 reading glasses are plenty good and much easier to deal with.

Humm, people keep saying this and even many who use a loupe use a 4x. I use an 8x and often want something stronger, AND I have excellent near vision if I take my glasses off and stick my nose to the ground glass (well, almost, from about 6" I can see better than 20/20 though, at least in my left eye, right needs to be more like 9" by which point the left is losing it, but if I close one I'm fine.)

Am I just more critical or is it more difficult for me to see what's sharp or (most likely I think) is a plain piece of ground glass in my old Technike III that inferior to the screens most people are using?

[rdenney]

Am I just more critical or is it more difficult for me to see what's sharp or (most likely I think) is a plain piece of ground glass in my old Technike III that inferior to the screens most people are using?

I'm with you. I think I have it focused pretty well using the bottom lens of my trifocals, and then I put the loupe to it and discover I'm still quite out of focus. I have used a 10x loupe in the past, and frequently an 8x, but the 4x loupe I have just isn't enough for 4x5--I've missed focus using it. The 6x loupe is a tilting design, so I can actually use it at the edges even with very short lenses.

Rick "who uses a lot of short lenses with very tiny depth of focus" Denney

[BradS]

Am I just more critical or is it more difficult for me to see what's sharp or (most likely I think) is a plain piece of ground glass in my old Technike III that inferior to the screens most people are using?

I tried a loupe once and knew I would never bother again. It felt like I needed five hands to set up a shot and it took forever.

Reading glasses do the job just fine and they are much faster and easier to use than a loupe.

I don't use a spot meter or freeze film either. I know that makes me a heretic here but, it works for me and that's really all that matters.

[Roger Cole]

Good enough - it works for you, fine.

I can't use "reading glasses" in the sense of just magnifiers you get at the drugstore. My eyes are far too bad for that. Until about age 41-42 I could use my one prescription fine but then needed progressives (or bifocals but I have no problem with progressives) or dedicated prescription reading glasses. I DO now use the latter under the cloth, AND a loupe. Like I said, if I take my glasses off I have really good close up vision, but I still need magnification and plenty of it to ensure sharpness.

I really think I need a brighter screen too though, and that might change things. I'll be sure to get one when I upgrade cameras.

Freezing film depends on how soon you use it. I have a stash I froze when I was into photography in 1999 that I'm glad has been frozen, including a nearly full 100 sheet box of Delta 400 in 4x5 and several 25 sheet boxes of APX 100. If you use it fairly soon of course that's unnecessary.

[Joseph Dickerson]

Like RD, I really like the Silvestri loupe. Lent mine to a student, never saw the student, the loupe, or, for that matter, my camera again.

I imagine that some day I'll get another, but I'm currently using a Calumet, I think it's actually a Horseman, 7x when I don't use the reading glasses.

I agree that 4x just isn't enough. I hate to say anymore, but I suspect 4x used to be just fine like when I was in college. Sigh!:o

JD

[Leigh]

I have separate dark cloths for the 4x5 and the 8x10 (and tee shirts :p ).

I seldom use the one for the 4x5. It has a Maxwell GG that's bright enough I don't need the cloth even in broad daylight. (I try to position myself under some shade rather than in bright direct sunlight when possible.)

The 8x10 has the factory GG, and I do need a cloth for it.

- Leigh

[BradS]

Freezing film depends on how soon you use it. I have a stash I froze when I was into photography in 1999 that I'm glad has been frozen, including a nearly full 100 sheet box of Delta 400 in 4x5 and several 25 sheet boxes of APX 100. If you use it fairly soon of course that's unnecessary.

I've run through 100~300 sheets of 4x5 each of the past five years. I'll buy a box of 50 or 100 sheets and when it gets down below 24 sheets, I order another. Never any need to freeze it.

[Ari]

I use a hood; when focusing with the loupe, the hood stays open, as the loupe is long enough.
I can swing out the hood to check alignment and composition at the edges.

[E. von Hoegh]

You really think that diminishes the effect of wind? That's a new theory to me. I can see that extra mass would damp vibrations, but wouldn't think it would make up for the sail effect of the increased surface area.

Once or twice I've seen the wind move the bellows (slightly) on the 8x10. Mainly I wrap it and drape it over the slot in the filmholder, just in case. The way I wrap it and tuck it in, it doesn't increase the area much, if at all.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Like RD, I really like the Silvestri loupe. Lent mine to a student, never saw the student, the loupe, or, for that matter, my camera again.

Sounds like someone I know, who borrowed my friend's Hasselblad outfit a few years ago. Haven't seen him (moved to another province) or the outfit.

Getting back on topic, I used to use a dark cloth for a while but it was more like a "dim" cloth and was always flapping in the wind. Been using BTZS hood for the past ten years.

[Randy]

I have a Zone VI dark cloth, black on one side, white on the other, with the weights sewed into the corners. Darn thing weighs more than my 5X7 camera. I tried the black T-shirt with my 8X10 and it worked great this past spring, but when summer got here I found that my loupe and ground glass fogged up while I was in there working. Had to go back to the Zone VI for the summer.

[Jim Noel]

I use a black T-shirt for everything up to 8x10. For the 7x17 I use a 5'x7' darkcloth.

[Drew Bedo]

I Use a dark cloth on my 8x10 and a BTZS hood on my 4x5. In a pinch I'll use a sweat shirt.

[ki6mf]

Clothing outlet store got 2XX Black poly workout shirt for $8.00. Long sleeves let me tie the dark cloth around the camera body when I put it away without taking up precious space inside my backpack.

[Roger Cole]

I have a Zone VI dark cloth, black on one side, white on the other, with the weights sewed into the corners. Darn thing weighs more than my 5X7 camera. I tried the black T-shirt with my 8X10 and it worked great this past spring, but when summer got here I found that my loupe and ground glass fogged up while I was in there working. Had to go back to the Zone VI for the summer.

I'd forgotten about the weights, just knew the thing was heavy.

I think replacing my dark cloth is the #1 item on my agenda for lightening my load. Much cheaper than replacing the Tech III with a lighter wooden camera, too! :D (Though that's on tap for later.)

[Maris Rusis]

I use a slightly heavy dark cloth, actually black one side, white the other with my 8x10 and 4x5 view cameras.

Apart from improving the view of the ground glass the dark cloth does more:

I measure bellows extension with the cloth tape measure sewn into one edge.

The white side is a good fill reflector particularly for against-the-light portraits.

Dropped on the ground (black side up) it holds down those pesky long grass stems that infest the foreground of many landscapes.

Rolled up the darkcloth is a shoulder pad to ease the pain of carrying a camera on a tripod.

A waterproof dark cloth protects the camera from rain.

At the end of a shoot the dark cloth is used to wrap the camera before putting it into the backpack. So far I've never had a broken ground glass.

At times the weather has changed on a landscape shooot and I've come home wearing the dark cloth just to stay warm and dry.

[Capocheny]

Dark cloth on 5x7 and 8x10; hood on the 4x5...

Dark cloth is black on one side and white on the reverse.

Preference is the dark cloth though.

Cheers

[John Kasaian]

Hello Capocheny!

I use a home made dark cloth, black on one side, white on the other. I do have hoods on my Speed Graphics but I prefer using a dark cloth--its part of mystique!

[jnantz]

black felt or canvas or a jacket if i can't find one

[patapuss]

Cloth all the way.

[Capocheny]

Hi John,

Couldn't agree with you more... :)

Cheers

[cowanw]

I use a slightly heavy dark cloth, actually black one side, white the other with my 8x10 and 4x5 view cameras.

Apart from improving the view of the ground glass the dark cloth does more:

I measure bellows extension with the cloth tape measure sewn into one edge.

The white side is a good fill reflector particularly for against-the-light portraits.

Dropped on the ground (black side up) it holds down those pesky long grass stems that infest the foreground of many landscapes.

Rolled up the darkcloth is a shoulder pad to ease the pain of carrying a camera on a tripod.

A waterproof dark cloth protects the camera from rain.

At the end of a shoot the dark cloth is used to wrap the camera before putting it into the backpack. So far I've never had a broken ground glass.

At times the weather has changed on a landscape shooot and I've come home wearing the dark cloth just to stay warm and dry.

Yep use a darkcloth for all these things then use your black Ilford golf shirt for the GG:cool:

[lawrencebrussel]

I guess for the blocking of light, there cannot be anything better than a single dark cloth or a hood.

[Sirius Glass]

Yes

[Terry Hull]

Arca Swiss with bino viewer worked perfectly for me, just couldn't find any Sherpas to help me tote it!

[Rick A]

I use a light weight black throw with a Harley Davidson logo on it, a gift from my wife. I sometimes use a headband magnifying lenses like a jewler would wear to focus, especially in low light.

[ki6mf]

Black long sleeve sports/poly work out shirt from my local overstock clothing store. The long sleeves allow me to wrap the shirt around the camera for extra protection and padding during transportation. It takes up no space and last time I went shopping cost all of $7.00

[cowanw]

For the first time I used a t shirt instead of a dark cloth a few weeks ago and I was blown away with the functionality. Waist length was just adequate but the next time I am in the United States I am going to one of those teenage clothing stores for a good quality black knee lenth tee shirt you see the teens wear when they have their shorts on down around the butts.

[Michael W]

I use a dark blue bath towel. Never have gotten around to getting a proper dark cloth. People often laugh when I got to check the ground glass.

[John NYC]

8x10 BTZS hood. And I use a loop, which seemed to be secondary question that came up in this thread. Indoors, I sometimes don't need the hood.

[Peter Gomena]

I use an old, beat-up dark cloth that came with my WP camera, and a BZTS hood for my Zone VI 4x5. The BZTS is a little tight around the camera, one made for a 5x7 field camera would be a better fit. Both are relatively light weight and compact. I once owned a Zone VI focusing cloth, but it was bulky and heavy.

Peter Gomena

[Frank Petronio]

Once I got an "designer" darkcloth free with a used camera... I think it was a blackjacket... anyway the previous owner used a lot of manly hair products and it was disgusting.

A clean t-shirt can be easily washed, it can pad your camera, you can wear in case you drool on your shirt... it's great to have multi-purpose items.

[David_Senesac]

I'm one that wants my ground glass DARK as it is difficult enough focusing or viewing an image upsidedown on a groundglass without it being muddled by light. I've looked under the hood to view groundglass images of some other view camera users using short, less than dark cloths and shook my head.

I don't use a stock dark cloth around my Wisner but rather modified a cheap relatively lighter pair of elastic thick black biker's tights which provides a darker enclosure below. One leg hole fits my head, the other allows ventilation downward while the waist hole fits over the rear standard. Ugly but functional. Also have surgical tubing piping between the outside through a cut hole to where my mouth is. Just Gorilla taped shut. That way on cold days I breath through the tubing in order to vent humid breath fully outside the groundglass area where it otherwise with usual dark cloths tends to fog. In fact that was the main reason I made this custom system because otherwise shooting in sub-freezing winter temps for snow scenes was futile.

[Keith S. Walklet]

Once I got an "designer" darkcloth free with a used camera... I think it was a blackjacket... anyway the previous owner used a lot of manly hair products and it was disgusting.

Both styles (ORIGINAL and HYBRID) BLACKJACKETs can be washed. There is a care label on the inside that advises:

"Gently hand-wash with mild detergent. Drip dry."

Though we've been fortunate never to have issues with our products delaminating, the conservative approach recommended for laundering is to ensure the longevity of the coated fabric (used for the entire lightweight "ORIGINAL", and the bottom half of the breatheable "HYBRID").

As for the previous owner's personal hygiene, you'll have to talk with their mom.

[lawrencebrussel]

yes terry i agree with you