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Emil Schildt
29-Jul-2011, 01:58
interesting item on the bay...

Says Gandolfi, but I am almost sure it isn't...

Any experts out there?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270789657637&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Item number: 270789657637

edp
29-Jul-2011, 02:14
It's a Watson Acme, like mine.

The front standard is what gives it away: The attachment that holds it on at the bottom, and the rise/fall clip.

It's a fine camera, its main flaw being that the lensboard is small. Compur size 1 shutter is the biggest that will fit on the lensboard, and the hole behind the lensboard is small too: the biggest lens I have that will fit on is the Fujinon f/6.3 250, which has a rear element significantly smaller than the front element.

Emil Schildt
26-Oct-2013, 13:10
New question:

Gandolfi or not:

very similar cameras:

The top one is a Gandolfi Universal

the bottom one?

Gandolfi or just similar? (the base is rather different)

Tim Meisburger
26-Oct-2013, 16:29
I have no idea, but it is interesting to see frame and panel construction. That's why the top one is split and the bottom not. Lovely.

Steven Tribe
27-Oct-2013, 12:54
I know that Emil is not going to like this but...

The craftmanship we associate with Gandolfi was matched by many early UK camera makers. The only reason why "Gandolfi" has become a legend is that they continued as an independent firm for such a long time.

I can think of an analogy from the motor industry (that was!) in the UK. Morgan of Malvern still produce a wooden framed sportscar. Morgan were never the best engineered or best assembled of this kind of car but achieved a status when all the other manufacturers were bought up or went bust.

Emil Schildt
27-Oct-2013, 14:59
I know that Emil is not going to like this but...

The craftmanship we associate with Gandolfi was matched by many early UK camera makers. The only reason why "Gandolfi" has become a legend is that they continued as an independent firm for such a long time.

.

I am not discussing craftmanship - I am just asking whether these two are both Gandolfi's or not... I have seen loads of other very fine English made cameras, no question, but they are not for me to collect (neither have the money or the space)

cjbroadbent
27-Oct-2013, 16:52
103731
From the 1911 Almanac. "As supplied to the War Department"
(I'm still alive, but busy with a Leica)

IanG
28-Oct-2013, 07:30
The problem is that the basic design of this type of camera isn't unique to Gandolfi, and some brass fittings used are common to a number of different manufacturers.

Interestingly going through old BJP Almanacs there's no second hand Gandolfi's listed 25 years after the company was founded and it's known that they had contracts to make cameras for other companies which would seem to be the lions share of their business at the time. In later years (post WWII) Gandolfi were making the Watson Premier and Acme cameras up until Watsons closure.

There must have been other small sub-contractors making similar cameras, or employees of larger companies attempting to set up manufacture themselves. To complicate things further a company called Lonsdale Bros with premises in London and Leeds were photographic engineers & wholesale camera manufacturers. Apart from specialising in brass work they also supplied cameras in kit form or ready built, their camera "The Practical" is very similar to the Gandolfi Universal and the Watson Premier.

Ian

Ole Tjugen
28-Oct-2013, 09:06
I would say "similar". There are too many differences in the construction, even the brass parts are different.

Jonathan Barlow
28-Oct-2013, 09:29
The bottom camera in gandolfi's photo certainly very closely resembles "The Universal Camera (as supplied to the British War Office)" in the old advertisement.

IanG
28-Oct-2013, 12:57
My comments in post #8 should have said it's highly unlikely the second camera was made at Gandolfi.

Ian

Emil Schildt
28-Oct-2013, 13:28
My comments in post #8 should have said it's highly unlikely the second camera was made at Gandolfi.

Ian

I tend to agree..

Emil Schildt
2-Nov-2013, 14:07
..so by total coincidence I just saw a bigger version of this (no name) camera, and it turns out to be Indian I think

With a name plate with a svastica on it.. so maybe that's why the one on my example got removed (?)

Name of camera is Welling

Or at least thi sone is more than close to the one I wrote about...

IanG
2-Nov-2013, 15:33
Very likely cabinet makers who turned out some copies of British cameras. I have a wooden trunk my father had made in the 1930's when he was living and working in India and the wood-work is superb, the iron work obviously home made but very solid, and the lock similar but still smooth working after 80 years. Indian craftsmen could copy well but on these cameras it's the bellows that look less professionally made.

Houghton's (Ensign) made cameras in India, one of their major shareholders was Lord (later Earl) Astor, a rich american born business man who bought the Times newspaper and had interests in insurance and banking, he was Aide de camp to the Viceroy of India just before WWI.

Other Indian and also Japanese companies copied British and German camera before WWII and set the roots for a few post WWII Japnese companies.

Ian

Steven Tribe
2-Nov-2013, 16:22
Welling has been "discovered" before (2011). See here!
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?77259-11-quot-F8-brass-lens-by-S-Mahadeo-amp-Son&highlight=welling

So it is probably teak.